Arjuna's License to Kill

[BruzWayne]

Hare Krishna devotees.

 

Arjuna was a KC warrior and he had a license to kill enemies with a demon mind like the sons of Dritarashtra. At the end of Bhagavad-gita Arjuna's mind was not moved by false ego and his intelligence wasn't entangled anymore, therefore even though he killed men in this world he didn't killed them at the same time (Bh.g. CH.18. Text 17.) and thus Arjuna's actions weren't binded by the law of karma.

 

As far as I know, warriors in KC like Arjuna are the only ones that can kill enemies with demon minds.

 

On the other hand, Christians and Muslims and Jewish are not allowed to kill due to their common commandment "Thou shall not kill."

 

Hitler and the Nazis used the swastica symbol but as far as I know they weren't KC warriors, just pretenders.

 

Therefore, every soldier in this world of any army either USA or Irak or UK or Spain or Israel or France or China or any nation, and as well any policeman of any nation as well as any person, don't have God's authorization to kill and if they do so they will have to undergo karma reactions.

 

So I think that people like Bush and Blair and Sharon and Hussein and Bin Laden and any president giving orders to their soldiers to kill will be taken by the yamadutas into hell after they die.

 

Now here comes a question, what if somebody following bhakti yoga in KC suddenly kills a karmi enemy in a fight?

 

And another question, what if somebody following bhakti yoga in KC suddenly decides to start a KC army with soldiers that follow the vedic injuctions for warriors? But let's suppose that this person is not a pretender like Hitler but someone with spiritual knowledge like Maharaja Parikshit, that is a student of KC with the warrior mentality?

 

Should we join such an army and defend the KC principles in case that World War III begins?

 

Hare Krishna.

 

[mark]

Haribol!

 

On the subject of war, I have always wondered what happened to K.C males of draft age in the US during the Vietnam war era.

 

Were they able to avoid the draft on religious principles or did any have to go and fight ?

 

If there is a vicious dictator or other really ungodly (eg communist) regime that totally suppresses all religion, and that cannot be removed by peaceful methods, should a K.C person be willing to fight as part of a modern army if they were called up ?

 

Arjuna had God driving his chariot for him, and telling him to fight, but if we face a violent situation how should we decide what to do, especially if theres no time to think ?

Many war situations are never black and white - eg Saddam Hussein being removed from power was not a bad thing, but the basic reason why he was removed was so that the US and UK could get their hands on Iraqs oil, which was unjustified.

 

What if a modern soldier for instance were to turn to K.C. What should he do ? His duty to follow orders from the govt and fight without considering whether the war was right or not, or should he leave the army ASAP.

Just wondering..

 

humble obeisances

Mark

[kcp1982]

Hare Krishna.

 

These are very good questions and comments by BruzWayne.

 

The answers lie in understanding the Bhagavad-gita.

 

Arjuna first of all did not want to fight (chapter 1). He was overcome by compassion for his relatives and friends on the both sides.

 

In chapter 2 and onwards, Lord Krishna makes Arjuna realize the following:

 

1. When you are attacked, it's silly not to defend yourself.

2. When you are on the battlefield, whether you want to fight or not makes no difference. The other side will attack and you will be forced to fight.

 

3. Those who are the battlefield on the other side are not to be considered your friends or relatives. They are your enemies. When people have swords, knives, and arrows pointing at you, how can they be your friends or relatives.

 

4. When the righteous don't stand-up for righteousness, then the un-righteous take over the world.

 

5. The Kurukshetra war was not between Arjuna and Duryodan. It was between righteousness and evil.

 

6. Lord krishna could have killed all the soldiers on the other side with the blink of an eye. But he didn't. You have to understand how god works (partially at least, one cannot understand him completely). Lord Krishna used Arjuna as an instrument to kill the soldiers. He wanted to give the credit to Arjuna and not take it for himself. Even before the war started, Lord Krishna showed Arjuna all the soldiers being killed one-by-one.

 

7. Even if Arjuna didn't listen to Lord krishna and did not fight. The soldiers on the other side would not have gone home. They would have been killed by Lord Krishna. So it's not Arjuna who's actually killing the soldiers, but Lord Krishna through Arjuna as an instrument.

 

8. Bhisma was on the other side, he knew that Krishna was God. He knew righteousness was on the other side, and he knew that his side would lose, but still he was on the side of evil. Why?

 

Bhisma took a vow to defend Hastinapur and serve the king, whoever he maybe. Thus it was his duty to serve on the side of the king, thus Duryodan's side.

 

So what does the Bhagavad-gita and all the above mean to us today in 2005.

 

One does have the right to kill for the following reasons, as mentioned in the Vedic scriptures:

 

1. If ones house is burnt.

2. If ones land is stolen.

 

There are other reasons but I cannot remember them all.

 

In 2001 when the Taliban blew up the caves with status of Lord Buddha in Afghanistan, an incarnation of Lord krishna. I was praying that Lord Buddha takes revenge, and he did not disappoint me. By November 2001 nearly all the Taliban soldiers were killed in the same way the Statues of lord Buddha were destroyed, blown up in caves.

 

Lord Buddha used the Americans as the instrument for destroying the Taliban. The Taliban have become extinct and if there are any left, they are hiding. This clealry shows how God does things. He works through us.

 

Some may think that the Americans in Iraq and elsewhere in the world are bad or invaders. But actually Lord krishna may be using them as instruments to wipe out the evil

(Islamic extremists - terrorists). Through Bush, Blair and others.

 

Nothing can happen without Lord Krishna's will. Even a blade of grass cannot move without the sanctions of Lord Krishna.

 

 

[imported_yasodanandana]

Now here comes a question, what if somebody following bhakti yoga in KC suddenly kills a karmi enemy in a fight?

--if he's a pure bhakta, a uttama adhikari, he will please krsna with every action..even if he kills a devotee or even if he attacks krsna like bhismadeva.

If he's not a uttama bhakta he will take the karma..

 

 

And another question, what if somebody following bhakti yoga in KC suddenly decides to start a KC army with soldiers that follow the vedic injuctions for warriors?

--that's not krsna consciousness... devotees have not to turn them selves in soldiers.. who already is a soldier (like arjuna) has to accept mahamantra and krsna consciousness. Then he will act as a devotee in his own job

 

Should we join such an army and defend the KC principles in case that World War III begins?

--what is you job? what do you do for earn money, for live? that's your karma... chant hare krsna and turn it in karma (bhakti) yoga

 

let us remember that krsna does not teach to arjuna to be a warrior... krsna teachs him to be himself and offer himself to krsna. If arjuna were a painter he had to offer painting to krsna, if he were a dancer he had to dance.., if he where a brahmin he had to do puja..

 

let us not fantasize about killing, but let us be concentrated in offering the life, job,family, freinds, art, skills, abilities that we already have to krsna..

 

krsna gave us many gunas and karmas to build our personality,now we have to offer Him back

[Guest guest]

I think it is important to know all of which 6 types of people are sinlessly killed. This is capital punishment. It is necessary.--

 

listed in purport to BG 1:36 as follows...

1) a poison giver

2) one who sets fire to a house

3) one who attacks with deadly weapons

4) one who plunders riches

5) one who occupies anothers land

6) one who kidnaps a wife

[imported_yasodanandana]

"sinlessly" in this world is possible only for pure devotees

[BruzWayne]

Hare Krishna, I appreciate the good comments from every body. Today I was talking with somebody about the bad reasons for war and those are Power and Fanatism, and we could add Revenge.

 

My job is about selling tours for entertainment like scuba diving and snorkeling and sightseeing and hiking and horseback ridding and so on, however, one year ago I was challenged to fight hand to hand by some co-worker. Then I decided that if I was going to have to fight hand to hand one day in a street fight it would be proper to purify myself through bhakti yoga thus offering unto Krishna any fight in the future. I don't look for fights but due to this heavy path of bhakti yoha in KC I believe that if I get challenged and I am forced to use violence in order to defend myself then at least I'm following the 4 regulative principles and bhakti yoga programs in order to fight back as a service for Vishnu. That's all. Self-defense.

 

But I must be careful and remember the principles of karate, which is meant for defense only and never for attacking first. Now, if during some fight my enemy results worse than damaged, well... Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

 

That's why I keep up this yoga stuff, because even though is something boring, well at least is the best way I know in order to turn anger into a service for God. But the sacrifices are too heavy: stop eating meat and shrimps and fish and chicken and stop drinking beer and avoid having sex with women unless I get married... Everything just in order to be purified and ready for a fight and at the same time keep my consciousness clean despite of the results.

 

Hare Krishna.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna.

 

If someone attacks you then you must fight to defend yourself. But don't be too hard as they are in ignorance, just like little children who don't know what they are doing. It's pointless to harm ignorant people.

 

In most cases it would be possible to avoid a fight thus choose non-violence over violence, if possible.

 

When do you fight?

If someone comes after you with a knife then run, but if they come too close then you must fight.

 

 

[BruzWayne]

A couple of days ago two drunk men were causing lots of noise outside the room that I rent so I wasn't able to sleep, so I called the cops by a public phone in the street and then told the drunk men to get away for some help was coming. One of them was about to attack me exactly at the same time when the cops were arriving. If I would have had to fight back I was chanting the maha mantra in my mind already.

 

The crime here is high, I'm sure one day I won't have other option but fight to kill or die, whatever Krishna decides, I'm ready for any option. No more comments nor replies about it, I must do what I must do, always chanting in my mind Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

 

I may return to this web page if a special request to Krishna that I made becomes real, in the meantime, farewell to the KC devotees in here.

 

Truly, BruzWayne.