I am Gay is that a problem

[Guest guest]

Hello, I am a gay guy in my 20's. I have been gay for quite some time now. Some of my friends are Hare Krishna devotees and i am quite interested in joining Society For Krishna Consciousness. The issue that concerns me is that im not sure whether homosexuality is allowed in the Hare Krishna movement. I know of some cultures that sentence homosexuals to death by stoning. I'd really like to join Hare Krishna but i am afraid that being gay will not sit well in the movement. Please Help

[jagatpurush]

in Hare Krishna movement homosexuality falls under the category of illicit sex. licit sex means only that meant for procreation, which is glorified by God in the Bhagavad-gita:

 

dharmaviruddho bhuteshu

 

kamo 'smi bharatarshabha

 

dharma-aviruddhah -- not against religious principles; bhuteshu -- in all beings; kamah -- sex life; asmi -- I am; bharata-rishabha -- O lord of the Bharatas.

 

TRANSLATION

 

I am sex life which is not contrary to religious principles, O lord of the Bharatas [Arjuna].

 

PURPORT

 

Sex life, according to religious principles (dharma), should be for the propagation of children, not otherwise. The responsibility of parents is then to make their offspring Krishna conscious. [bg. 7.11]

 

when one reads this, it seems to make sublime sense. that that would be the pure standard. and ISKCON is meant to preserve and propagate that kind of a standard of spiritual life.

 

to understand this elevated thing called God Consciousness we have to be in the mode of goodness. simply studying will not give us that understanding. it has to be a state of being. and illicit sex is a strong impediment against reaching the mode of goodness. so all devotees have to give up illicit sex, not just gay people.

 

but you should not be treated bad for this as we all have our faults. devotees are supposed to be manadena, or giving all respect to others.

 

also i hope you are not one of those people who is like, 'i like Hare Krsna but i can't aspire to a religion that is not feminist/ doesn't allow homosexuality/ doesn't agree with modern science/ etc. etc. because ultimately if we want the truth, we can't expect that it will conform to our exact way of seeing the world. in fact it may be radically different, being as we are not in complete knowledge.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna.

 

Being gay is not normal and is a demonic quality, but that should not deter a gay person from becoming krishna conscious. Also others should not give gay people a hard time.

 

Thus become krishna conscious and slowly your bad taste will fade away.

 

Everyone sins in one way or another so gays should not be barred from the hara krishna movement and they should be helped to come out of darkness.

 

If a gay person does not become krishna conscious then he is living in darkness and will remain so for many life times. By becoming krishna conscious, he has an opportunity to change for the better and break away from the cycle of birth and death altogether and go back to the spiritual universe, Vaikuntha, where there is no sex. Thus no question of being gay or not.

 

[Guest guest]

I beg your pardon. An act is considered demonic if it worships a dark force and in itself brings about harm to others. And in which way does homosexuality worship any form of evil power so that it may be called DEMONIC. MIght i ask in which way is homosexuality bringing harm to anyone else. I should actually like to say, as a gay person, that certain hetrosexual people (which by your earlier definitions are defined as "undemonic") are demonic as they bring about "physical" and "emotional" harm to homosexual people. ALL HOMOSEXUALITY IS IS LOVE; LOVE FOR SOMEONE OF YOUR OWN SEX, BUT LOVE NONE THE LESS. IT IS DUE TO MODERN MEDIA AND MISCONCEPTIONS THAT PEOPLE BELIEVE HOMOSEXUALITY TO BE A PURELY PHYSICAL DESIRE. IT IS NOT!!! IT IS BASED ON LOVE. unless one is gay, no hetrosexual person will understand the love shared by two gay people.

[Guest guest]

MIght i ask in which way is homosexuality bringing harm to anyone else. I should actually like to say, as a gay person, that certain hetrosexual people are demonic as they bring about "physical" and "emotional" harm to homosexual people. ALL HOMOSEXUALITY IS IS LOVE; LOVE FOR SOMEONE OF YOUR OWN SEX, BUT LOVE NONE THE LESS. IT IS DUE TO MODERN MEDIA AND MISCONCEPTIONS THAT PEOPLE BELIEVE HOMOSEXUALITY TO BE A PURELY PHYSICAL DESIRE. IT IS NOT!!! IT IS BASED ON LOVE. unless one is gay, no hetrosexual person will understand the love shared by two gay people.

[jagatpurush]

>>And in which way does homosexuality worship any form of evil power so that it may be called DEMONIC.

 

the word for demon is asura, or one who is not godly. simply being non-violent does not make one a sura, or godly person (which we should all aspire to become). so when we use the word demonic, we mean something which goes against the prescribed order of God. we certainly do not mean any personal offense by this; it is just our nomenclature, in line with the way Krishna speaks in the Gita:

 

pravrttim ca nivrttim ca

jana na vidur asurah

na saucam napi cacaro

na satyam tesu vidyate

 

SYNONYMS

pravrttim--proper action; ca--also; nivrttim--improper action; ca--and; janah--persons; na--never; viduh--know; asurah--demoniac qualities; na--never; saucam--cleanliness; na--nor; api--also; ca--and; acarah--behavior; na--never; satyam--truth; tesu--in them; vidyate--there is.

 

TRANSLATION

Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them. Bg. 16.7

 

i am very sorry if you are offended by what i or someone wrote. we are not trying to vilify homosexuals in any way, just talking about standards of behavior.

 

IT IS DUE TO MODERN MEDIA AND MISCONCEPTIONS THAT PEOPLE BELIEVE HOMOSEXUALITY TO BE A PURELY PHYSICAL DESIRE. IT IS NOT!!!

 

it is due to modern media and misconceptions that lust is confused with love. lust does not mean physical desire, it refers to any material desire ultimately. the word used in Sanskrit for what you call love is only kama, or desire. or sneha, affection. because India is a sophisticated culture, they don't get to using the word 'love' until the level of prema, or pure selfless love of God.

 

thanks hope this clarifies our position /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

 

There is no problem with being gay in Krsna consciousness. Devotees are completely transcendental to the body and do not judge others because of it. Everyone is welcome.

 

If you want to live in the temple you must be celibate, but otherwise you can live outside the temple as a congregational member (preferrably in a gay marriage with a single partner).

 

The only problem you may face is with some bigoted devotees who don't understand homosexuality properly. But as a gay person, you probably know that prejudiced types exist almost everywhere! But there are many very nice devotees who accept gays equally. My advice is just to associate with those advanced, swanlike devotees and avoid the fundamentalist, smarta-brahmana types.

 

Good luck, and please don't allow the ignorance of a few devotees to keep you from Krsna!

[Guest guest]

There is no need to declare who is Homosexual, and who is bigoted, who is swanlike, who is fundamentalists, who is smarta-brahmana types, or who accepts gay equally well...etc.

 

As far as spirituality is concerned it's independant of all these.

 

If you enjoy being Homosexual make sure that the world benefits from it. Don't be suckers in the world. That is don't be person who enjoys Homosexual nature, and then who goes tom toming in world playing victims of the majority of the world which may hold strong view on Homosexuality. Enjoy life and give back it's due to the world, than enjoying life and seeking full protection/empathy.

 

The only thing wrong about this media is it just cannot get out of reporting information in a fashion where there is one side which is a victim and there is another side which is believed to be doing the harm (doer) to the victims.

 

One should realise that it is possible to understand information in the world without a victim-doer situation. Once this possibility is figured out, then you can see a whole lot of people playing games in the world. The games involve certain people LOVING to play the role of victims of others, and certain others LOVING to play the role of refrees, giving verdicts on who is nice/fair, who is fundamentalists..etc. Both these sets of people who play games of being victims and the others who play referees are such suckers on any society.

 

It just appears that the whole law/order/rules & discipline in this society are there thanks to these victims & referees. But in reality this is far from true. These people hardly do anything, like a restless media keen to make noice.

[Guest guest]

nuff said, stop the homosexual life style your harming your self and your family, the devotees and the world around you. no one can justify gay as moral, proper, undemonic,normal or acceptable. gay is abnormal and unacceptable and demonic period. you dont feel genuine love only lust dispite your claims.

[Guest guest]

Man develops a laundry list of desires, as though he/she cannot live without it. Far from living without, man tends to

-> identify himself with his/her desires

-> brand himself/herself with it

-> Seek special status from the majority of society

-> try to expand to incorporate people of similar taste, just to feel more secure as a bigger community

 

This whole thing may be unnecessary for a living. Most unnecessary for a spiritual enlightenment or sat-sang. I am not debating what's right & wrong.

[Guest guest]

Sexuality in any of the dharma movements is not practiced except for reproduction. This means sex is not done--gay or straight. Rather, it is sublimated; that is, the energy is transformed into a sacrifice for the Beloved, Krsna, and the energy used for His service. This is part of the process of surrender to Bhagavan. If you surrender all of your life to Him, He will honor that sacrifice and help you as you strive to Krsna consciousness. Gay or straight, it is the same energy given and the same sacrifice.

 

The choice is up to you. I can speak from experience that once you have surrendered your life and given Him your sexuality, bhava is the gift given to know His reality and His very deep love for you. Sexuality orientation is just not an issue in this regard.

 

May you find Him to be a reality in your life. Hare Krishna!

 

[Guest guest]

Its not a problem if you are gay.

 

As far as you are determined to live a life which follows the principals of Krsna Con. AS long as you love yourself and respect your own self. God is there in you as well. So respect yourself, and love everyone.

 

I apologize for behalf of others, and what you had to read on this page, from other people. Please don't mind.

 

Follow your heart and pray. Rest, Krishna will take care, you will see things changing. and anytime you want to talk about anything please feel free...

 

god_loves_ryan@

 

Your friend from ISCKON

Prajwal

[Guest guest]

"Its not a problem if you are gay.

 

As far as you are determined to live a life which follows the principals of Krsna Con."

 

That is a contradiction.You cannot follow the principles of Bhakti yoga and be gay (practicing homosex) at the same time. Does this mean I am disgusted by gays, or that I hate their guts? No. It is simply the just conclusion of Krishna and the Vaisnavas. Does it mean that they can't join? No.

But it would be against the word of Krishna to say that homosex is not a problem. Illicit sex, lust, is a huge problem. Sometimes stated as the root cause of it. It is insatiable and will only increase if given into.

Jagatpurush states the truth here, don't expect the bonafide spiritual path to water down and adapt to your wishes because that would pervert the path. No, YOU have to change to fit in the spiritual path. This may take time, as we all know old habits die hard, but nonetheless you require to give it up in the end, or no progress will be made.

 

Haribol!

[Guest guest]

dump the guy see a good psych doc. get over your lust issues.

[Guest guest]

No, it is not a problem.

[Guest guest]

I am completely shocked by the ignorance displayed in most of these replies. "good" and "bad" are man-made dualities. Only elitists with large egos say that someone else's lifestyle is "wrong" or for god's sake "demonic", of all things. How dare you push away someone who is innocently seeking krishna. And to say "gay sex is illicit sex". I am very disappointed in these judgemental replies.

[Guest guest]

We don't say it, God says it,the scriptures and the spiritual masters say it and logic says it. Gay sex is illicit sex, always. There is nothing elitist about these statements, they are simple and logical conclusions to non-judgemental observations. This does not mean that the soul who is entrapped in a gay lifestyle should be rejected to engage in Krishna consciousness, but he should however be determined to give up his sinful lifestyle. The best way to do this is to encourage him to come to Krishna consciousness, then, if followed sincerely, gradually his lustful tendencies will diminish and such a soul will become free from designations such as I am gay, I am American, I am man/woman etc. and he will be able to stay in Krishna consciousness at all times. So we are not pushing away anyone,but we can in fact observe without holding any animosity or contempt towards the soul inside, that if a person identifies himself with his outward dress, it is not acceptable for performing spiritual duties and he should prepare to quit such a lifestyle which is deemed by the scriptures and spiritual masters as demonic. Actually good and bad is also defined by the Lord in the scriptures and are not man-made dualities. It is our behaviour which can be deemed good or bad. It boils down to this:if you engage your life in the service of the Lord it is good, and if you stay in aversion to the Lord without making any effort to know Him it is bad. So not all lifestyles are okay,far from it in fact. Most are downright degrading for the soul ensnared in them hurling them further down in this material existance.

For an outsider these responses seem understandably very upsetting. You can read in the Baghavad-Gita on those of demoniac nature. They have no horns on their head nor bat-like wings on their backs, but their behaviour is stated as being demonic. So I beg you to please withhold your judgement on the posts made here by claiming them ignorant and first engage yourself further into learning about this movement, this true spirituality which is dormant in all of us, so that you may first have an understanding as to why these seemingly rash replies are given, so that your responses be based on spiritual understanding rather than the impulsive responses of the false ego, which is full of misconceptions.

 

Hare Krishna!

[Guest guest]

"Its not a problem if you are gay.

 

As far as you are determined to live a life which follows the principles of Krsna Con."

 

WEll I must clarify this point. I ment that if you are gay it is not a restriction for you to join Bhakti yoga. Once you join you need to follow the principles of Krishna Con. now this definately will include not getting involved in homosexual affairs.

[Guest guest]

Doesn't really matter whether you are gay or not. Krsna himself says that "In this way you will come to know and realise that the Self within you is the same Self of all embodied beings..."

 

All you need to do is love him & nothing more. I'm you, you're me...everything I see, everything is me. So there. harekrsna harekrsna krsna krsna hare hare hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare...Just follow your heart. There is no right or wrong. In the end all is krsna. The good & the bad merge to be my krsna. Everything is Krsna.

[Guest guest]

A question to everybody about being gay: What is more important- 1. To be Krishna Conscious or 2. To be heterosexuall.

[Guest guest]

'There is no right or wrong. In the end all is krsna. The good & the bad merge to be my krsna. Everything is Krsna.'

 

Perhaps you should start worshiping stool then.

[Guest guest]

haribol

 

i just wanted to say, that the way in wich youre speaking

is very offensive. EVERYONE can become krishna conscious

be he gay or whatever, but he has too become serious and

thus follow the rules and regulations. One of those rules

is no illicit sex,this applys too both hetero's en gay's.

 

Illicit sex means: sex other than for prorecreation.

this also implies that the gay devotees cant marry

because they cant make childeren, so the sex in their married life becomes illicit. Unfortunately it is a bit harder for the gay persons because of this, but please understand and become a great vaishnava.

 

I also wanted to say this, a vaishnava is a vaishnava, so dont offend anyone because of his past, ugliness, gay or whatever. Because their are also a lot of western devotees that offend gays, but if we were like the western devotees we could also say that their just yavanas and mlecchas that can never change, but that is obviuosly not the fact.EVERYONE CAN COME TOO KRISHNA AND SRILA PRABHUPADA PROOFED THAT, SO BECOME MORE MERCIFUL AND TOLERANT AND DONT SAY THIS IS ONLY SENTIMENT, NO YOU ARE HARD HEARTED AND NOT MERCIFUL, CHAITANYA MAHAPRABHU EVEN GAVE MERCI TOO DOGS.

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

It is not about this or that ego or being fundamental or liberal,these are all dualities od mind,intellect,that is why sastra is important,it is above sentimentalism.We are all conditioned, but that does not mean thatt our conditioning is not to be corrected,ofcourse it should be,we should wipe out our anarthas,otherwise we can deviate from truth.Krishna gave us Bhagavad Gita,we should accept it as it is,everybody is welcome to become devotee of Krishna,but that means accepting spiritual dharma,duty, there are auspicious things and there are inauspicious,like homosexuality, it is activity that goes against dharma,it is adharmic activity and it should be corrected, otherwise we will have hard time becoming proper devotee,because we will stay polluted with the mode of passon and ignorance.This is what homosexuality is,it is adharmic(unreligious,unmoral) activity and it has degrading effect to the rest of society,it is one of the elements,like feminism also,that is destroying family traditions, it brings further pollution and another step of degradation in this already fallen and horribel age of immoralty,ateism,quarel,i mean i have sometimes doubts to have children to see them growing up in this sinfull society. it hink devotees should not water down shastra,because then we will loose all spiritual strenghts,we might have problems,anarthas,but we should work on them.If someone is gay,o.k.we do not reject you,no, come,but get purified,if you do not like women,stay celibate, this way you will advance,but if we want to keep our bad habits,then we will need a lot of time to advance,why to waste time,why to waste our human form to get entangled in this or that sex,it is all waste of energy.

I wish you will become pure devotee and will take the process of bhakty seriously, i wish that Krishna will give you all the blessing to make spiritual progress. Come join us,you will benefit.

[Guest guest]

Everyone is welcome to practice Bhakti in ISKCON. Add Krishna to whatever you are doing as Prabhupad said. Haribol.

[Guest guest]

"I am spirit-soul is that a problem?"

 

 

No, voice inside my head, that is not a problem. That is actually the beginning of self realization. Being a soul your real business is rendering loving devotional sevice to Krishna. Sense gratification shouldn't be the primary focus of activity. Pertaining to sexual intercourse, the primary intent of the realized soul is to beget and properly raise a child to be Krishna conscious. Everyone, homo or heterosexual, who uses sex for the primary means of gratification is acting in the mode of ignorance. The remedy for this degraded lifestyle is to chant Hare Krishna and to associate with sincere devotees. When it comes to inoffensive chanting and association we should all leave our mundane bodily designations and focus on our real eternal relationship. That goes for both homo and heterosexuals.