Bakthas make a better time: Krishna vs. Rama

[Guest guest]

Krishna was the wisest with divine spirtual knowledge & divine powers. krishna had to do most things by himself and he was so selfless to serve and help others. Krisha received little help from his bakthas (unlike a ram bakth like Hanuman who so much helped Ram selflessly).

 

Krishna bakths fell at Krishna's feet for their personal needs & little of their spiritual needs. With the act of surrender for their bodily needs, they extracted every little help from Krishna who was so selfless in helping.

 

Arjuna was lucky to get the divine wisdom from Krishna directly.

 

It doesn't appear that Arjuna gained the wisdom. Arjuna towards the end ask Krishna to further reassure through a viswa roopa. Krishna show him the viswa roopa & even pleases his physical anxieties, to show him in advance who wins the battle finally.

 

Arjuna pick up the bow only when he's sure that the battle will be won by his side. Regarding the feeling of guilt to battle against his near-dear, Krishna further reassures Arjuna that Arjuna is not to be blamed for it and it's Krishna himself who's carrying the act (as evidenced in viswa roopa) which leads to the defeat of the enemies.

 

The whole of Krishna loka is full of egocentric bakthy for ones own materialistic/bodily needs. There were limited examples of bakthas gaining from the wisdom of Krisha.

 

The joy of Krishna loka was Krishna's own selfless service, with that smile/grace & help rendered to everyone.

 

Krishna is smiling, ever-fulfilled and the ultimate of alll wisdoms.

 

Rama was considered gracious as he led a kingdom full of citizens willing to render selfless service & thanking Rama for their opportunity to serve. Rama rajya was proporous for the grace of Ram & for the generous service & fullfillment among its citizens.

 

Krishna-loka would have seen lesser distruction, if only it had citizens like that of rama rajya. Krishna, one person, is so great that he makes it worth remembering even inspite of the people (bakthas) greediness & rajasik behavious which is more of an act.

[mark]

Haribol,

 

Forgive me as I am rather ignorant, but I understand from reading the B.gita that Krishna put Arjuna into his position of forgetfulness so that he (Krishna) could explain the Gita to Arjuna, and hence the explanation could be passed onto all of mankind?

 

So any apparent ignorance or uncertainty on Arjunas part was because Lord Krishna had made it so.

 

From the introduction to the Bhagavad Gita written by Srila Prabhupada :

 

'Being an associate of Lord Kåñëa, Arjuna was above all ignorance, but Arjuna was put into ignorance on the Battlefield of Kurukñetra just to question Lord Kåñëa about the problems of life so that the Lord could explain them for the benefit of future generations of human beings and chalk out the plan of life. Then man could act accordingly and perfect the mission of human life'

 

My apologies for any offence.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna Prabhu,

Prabhu I didn't understand your reason for comparing Lord Krishna vs Lord Rama? Don't forget Lord Krishna and Lord Ram are non different from each other. " Janam karm ca me divham--" meaning the appreance and activities of the Supreme Lord are transidental and are very very difucult to conceive.

Thanx

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna Marx Prabhu,

Prabhu your understanding of B.Gita is correct and accurate.Keep up the good work.

Thank you

[Guest guest]

Mr./Ms. Mano,

I like to know who is your guru, who taught you all this?

or this is your own understanding? looking forward to hear from you-- Thanks

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna.

 

Listen to Srila Prabhupada's BG in 5 languages at gitamrta.org, free.

 

Kamlesh Patel

Gitamrta.org

 

[imported_yasodanandana]

It doesn't appear that Arjuna gained the wisdom. Arjuna towards the end ask Krishna to further reassure through a viswa roopa.

••arjuna was a in timate friend of Krsna The Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not possible to be so close to the absolute and be simultaneously an ignorant. Arjuna gives the example on how to surrender and achieve Krsna's Darshan... but he had Krsna's Darshan for all his lifetime. So in bhagavad gita he's simply impersonating the part of a disciple who makes a gradual spiritual evolution, but he's already a most evoluted Krsna's devotee.. nitya siddha.. eternally krsn's bhakta

 

consider this then we'll discuss other points

[Guest guest]

We thank arjuna for providing the opportunity to hear from Krishna directly those great words of wisdom.

 

Krishna in the very first chapter and his very first response, tries to get Arjuna back to action by telling that all of us are spiritually existing, immortal & content. And it's only ones body which is bound to duty, and thus appeals to arjuna to act. Arjuna continues with questions all through for the 18 chapters. The very first response of Krishna to Arjuna indicates that Krishna is more fond of the immediate action by duty/true nature than the opportunity to sermon.

 

Nithya Sidha is pure surrender acting by true nature. Had Arjuna understood the wisdom and acted without wanting to know the result of the battle, or without feeling secure with the assumption that there is God himself who is the charioteer (or after the viswa roopa, requests Krishna that he doesn't need to take the physiscal strain to chariot him, just to make sure the battle happens between the good & evil),...these could be considered as surrender partially. None of this happened though from Arjuna.

 

Perhaps that's why Nithya sidha is attributed to Radha. Or the people of bridavan around the krishna kanhaiya eiposdes. In Nithya sidha, the very experience of having krishna around is bliss, all physical strains & materilistic pains are forgotten.

 

My guru is my own inner silence. The pains as one passes through the stages of Kama, prema & nithya radha, can be great opportunity to learn from the inner silence. There is no escaping for one from these stages in this world. That's why one cannot tell whether one is going through Kama, prema & nithya radha from mere appearance or a possible endoresement from a guru.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna Mano,

According to your inner silence,

1) who is Arjun?

2) Who is Lord Krishna?

3) what is the relationship between them?

4) why Lord Krishna spoke Bhagwad Gita?

Lastly what exactly you trying to prove by comparing Lord Ram vs. Lord Krishna?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

It's not a comparison of Ram vs. Krishna. It's only about the Bakthas of their times. The bakthas in Ram rajya saw lesser distruction and rivalry that the bakthas of krishna loka. So once again, no comparison between to two avatars of god.

 

Bakthy is sharing, surrendering, acting without doer-ship and much more than mere acts of demonstration of feet-washing, or demonstrating in the streets with a school-of-thought. Bakthy is not "I am afraid .., I am trembling..., I am confused.., this is very very difficult to understand.., I don't know how..., Please don't blame me..., You only know how..., why did lord krishna speak BG etc.." and many more such acts/inquisitiveness of our merely restless mind. We might see the evolving world accepting more & more junk as Bakthy, perhps to popularize a school of thought over another.

 

The journey to Self-realization is a totally different thing. The good news may that there are so many gurus around (be it of several schools of thought) to guide and help the people.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna Mano,

O.K. you are not comparing Lord vs. Lord Krishna.But by saying,

"It's only about the Bakthas of their times. The bakthas in Ram rajya saw lesser distruction and rivalry that the bakthas of krishna loka."

 

What point are you trying to prove or propogate? Also you mentioned, "The journey to Self-realization is a totally different thing." With all due respect to your goodself may I ask what that is?

Thanks

[imported_yasodanandana]

mano... all attempts to demonstrate that arjuna is not a nitya siddha is useless. When there's Krsna's presence there's no ignorance, and arjuna was krsna's cousin, they spent a whole life together, so in bhagavad gita arjuna is simply acting as a conditionated soul for our benefit but he's not

 

i am sorry but you have to put in discussion your strange theories

 

[Guest guest]

Theories are so subjective. For example the point made, we have to assume that Arjuna in bagavath geetha was pretending (or got enveloped) to be ignorant, so as to have krishna's teaching become universal. This can be rationalised by proof points, for sure.

 

Well, there is acknowledgement that Arjuna was ignorant. In the end he took to war after seeing who wins in the war from krishna's viswa-roopa.

 

From Arjuna's perspective, one can see that self-realization cannot be achieved by grilling of questions of why, what, or how..etc.

 

Krishna clearly spells out everything in Bagavath Githa from why, how & whats (so that no-one needs to ask anyfurther questions like arjuna). Yet, it misses the point for Arjuna, who is finally convinced only by Krishna's divine capabilities (little from nyana). Self-realization is not about focusing on fate, or knowing in advance what's going to happen next in response to ones action.

 

When self-realization occurs questions stop and acceptance/actions begin unconditionally. Like it's from Prema/Nithya radha to Nithya-sidha.

[imported_yasodanandana]

Theories are so subjective.

••god and ignorance are opposite things. God is everything, he's the whole material and spiritual universe, so if you see god, you see and understand everything and there's no more ignorance. For this reason, because arjuna was an intimate friend of krsna, it is impossible that arjuna were really doubtful about the right thing to do..

 

When self-realization occurs questions stop and acceptance/actions begin unconditionally.

••questions are not sign of unacceptance.. and sometimes they're not even sign of doubt and ignorance..

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna Mano,

Please accept my humble obeisaces.

It appears that you have studied Bhagwad Gita. That's very nice. What do you think of Srila Prabhupad? Does his explainations of Bhagwad Gita appeal to you? Thank you.

looking forward to hear from you,

Hare Krishna

Your servant

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna Mano,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

It appears that you have studied Bhagwad Gita. That's very nice. What do you think of Srila Prabhupad? Does his explainations of Bhagwad Gita appeal to you? Thank you.

looking forward to hear from you,

Hare Krishna

Your servant