I still like the philposaphy...

[Max_]

Well for a long long time now I have not been able to chant, or read any Krishna Conscious material with any sense of true devotion. I thought it would eventually pass and I would finally be able to focus, but it hasn't and it has just gotten worse. I no longer see the point in chanting, especially since I don't feel anything when I do so.

 

I live in a rather busy city in Canada, with trucks going by all the time, people yelling, TVs blaring, and computers beeping, it's not possible to meditate in any way. I don't drive and live too far away from a temple to go to one and do such things, so I'm stuck. I've more or less "given up" on that side of things, as someone living in West to live like a true Vaishnava is just not possible. But I will continue to read Srila Prabhupada's books, and Bhagavad-Gita, and anything else of that sort that I can get my hands on. Because I still feel that the Vaishnava philosophy is the greatest one ever, it makes the most sense to me, if I were a Christian, or if I were a Muslim I would still say that your philosophy made the most sense of any "religion" ever.

 

So I want to thank all the devotees who I've ever talked with, and who have supported and encouraged me, maybe one day I can reach a level of devotion as great as you guys. Maybe one day I will attain true God Consciousness

 

God bless you all,

 

Max

[mark]

Haribol

 

I am very sorry to hear that you feel your devotion has waned. I am only a neophyte and only have a little devotion at the moment myself (and am so ignorant its embarrasing!) so I really do feel for you.

 

Perhaps some proper, experienced devotees can give you some good advice, but the only thing I can suggest is that you start chanting again, even if you feel nothing, as while you may not be enjoying your chanting, I'm sure Lord Krishna would still like to hear you, and would appreciate your determination in the face of your feelings.

 

I feel we should not necessarily be chanting to feel something ourselves but to please the Lord.

I guess that if we do not feel anything while chanting the holy names most of us would assume we are not pleasing Lord Krishna, but perhaps we should not assume anything, and just hope that we are pleasing him.

 

Perhaps you could do with a holiday, away from the noise ?

A break at a spiritual K.C retreat perhaps or just in the quiet of nature ?

 

I pray (literally) that you find your devotion again, and peace and happiness.

 

I think living in a city would make me feel hopeless and unhappy, as cities seem to me to be mostly mad-made hell-holes these days - perhaps if you ever have the chance you could change your life and find a quieter life elsewhere ?

Sorry if thats a useless sugestion, I know its hard just to get by, let alone change our situations these days.

 

Its good that you are still reading though - this will surely help you in your progress.

 

Please excuse me as I do not mean to criticise in any way, and just wish you all the best.

 

Hare Krishna

Mark

[jagatpurush]

main thing is association with devotees. without association, devotional service will become dry. that is why Prabhupada created ISKCON, so that devotees could relish the 6 types of exchanges between Vaisnavas:

 

dadati pratigrhnati

 

guhyam akhyati prcchati

 

bhunkte bhojayate caiva

 

sad-vidham priti-laksanam

 

 

 

dadati--gives charity; pratigrhnati--accepts in return; guhyam--confidential topics; akhyati--explains; prcchati--inquires; bhunkte--eats; bhojayate--feeds; ca--also; eva--certainly; sat-vidham--six kinds; priti--of love; laksanam--symptoms.

 

Translation

 

Offering gifts in charity, accepting charitable gifts, revealing one's mind in confidence, inquiring confidentially, accepting prasada and offering prasada are the six symptoms of love shared by one devotee and another.

 

Purport

 

In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami explains how to perform devotional activities in the association of other devotees. There are six kinds of activities: (1) giving charity to the devotees, (2) accepting from the devotees whatever they may offer in return, (3) opening one's mind to the devotees, (4) inquiring from them about the confidential service of the Lord, (5) honoring prasada, or spiritual food, given by the devotees, and (6) feeding the devotees with prasada. An experienced devotee explains, and an inexperienced devotee learns from him. This is guhyam akhyati prcchati. When a devotee distributes prasada, remnants of food offered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, in order to maintain our spirit of devotional service we must accept this prasada as the Lord's grace received through the pure devotees. We should also invite pure devotees to our home, offer them prasada and be prepared to please them in all respects. This is called bhunkte bhojayate caiva.

 

Even in ordinary social activities, these six types of dealings between two loving friends are absolutely necessary. For instance, when one businessman wishes to contact another businessman he arranges a feast in a hotel, and over the feast openly expresses what he wishes to do. He then inquires from his business friend how he should act, and sometimes presents are exchanged. Thus whenever there is a dealing of priti, or love in intimate dealings, these six activities are executed. In the previous verse, Srila Rupa Gosvami advised that one should renounce worldly association and keep company with the devotees (sanga-tyagat sato vrtteh). The International Society for Krishna Consciousness has been established to facilitate these six kinds of loving exchanges between devotees. This Society was started single-handedly, but because people are coming forward and dealing with the give-and-take policy, the Society is now expanding all over the world. We are glad that people are donating very liberally to the development of the Society's activities, and people are also eagerly accepting whatever humble contribution we are giving them in the shape of books and magazines dealing strictly with the subject matter of Krsna consciousness. We sometimes hold Hare Krsna festivals and invite life members and friends to participate in the feasting by accepting prasada. Although most of our members come from the higher rungs of society, they nonetheless come and take whatever little prasada we are able to offer them. Sometimes the members and supporters inquire very confidentially about the methods of performing devotional service, and we try to explain this. In this way our Society is successfully spreading all over the world, and the intelligentsia of all countries is gradually appreciating our Krsna conscious activities. The life of the Krsna conscious society is nourished by these six types of loving exchange among the members; therefore people must be given the chance to associate with the devotees of ISKCON because simply by reciprocating in the six ways mentioned above an ordinary man can fully revive his dormant Krsna consciousness.

 

the activities of this site fall under guhyam akhyati prchhati. but it is not enough to maintain enthusiasm for chanting. Hare Krsna, prabhu...

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Your talking like you've givin up. Now I will do this or that. Each day is different. Tommorow you may change your mind. I am just like you. I have desire, then it comes and goes. The main problem is lack of surrender. Look in Gita for the verse. I hope the admin doesn't delete this message I am about to post a link to a chat room. Admin can edit this message if you like.

 

Public room: http://www.hotconference.com/software/conference.php?id=10341791

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna.

 

You don't need to chant to be a devotee.

 

You can be a pure devotee without chanting too.

 

I would suggest you take a trip to India, that will refresh you. The more often you can visit India, the better.

 

The srimad bhagavatam describes 9 processes of devotional service, not one. Thus you don't need to chant if you don't feel for it. Just read KC books and keep off meat, illicit sex, gambling, and no intoxications.

 

Listen to the Bhagavad-gita at www.gitamrta.org and also read the articles like 'Is there life after death', 'Human life is rare - Don' waste it' 'Why krishna is god' etc..

 

 

 

[imported_yasodanandana]

"You can be a pure devotee without chanting too."

 

that's against any logic and against any vaishnava principle

 

i give all my respect to bhakta Max for is being a devotee is such conditions, but he definitely has to chant hare krishna

 

it is not difficult, it is effective even if it is done offensively

 

it is the greatest trick of maya to convince us that we are too low to chant the mahamantra.. everyone can and must chant hare krsna

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna.

 

Before 500 years ago there was no hare krishna mantra.

 

Do you think that there were no devotees before 500 years ago?

 

The srimad bahgavatam describes 9 processes of devotional service, not one. Please read and follow the scriptures.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

All glories to Srila Prabhupada,

 

It happened to me yesterday. After chanting 10 rounds for some unknown reason I found it difficult to procounce Hare Hare in the right way - I had to pause a little to pronounhce it right - and so the rhythm was disturbed and consequently the mood - but when I realized it - I said what come may - I'll complete the remaining 6 rounds and went along - and succeded.

 

Well all the while I was being told by my inner self that Krishna still wants to see my inclination - my determination - and not the pronounciation - AND THAT'S what made me to complete the rounds.

 

So my friend, yes as has been written up by another devotee - DO THE CHANTING even if it is offensive - i.e. with the scary thoughts running in the mind or the noise around or whatever.

 

I wish you all the best - please don't leave the right path you have so fortunately taken up.

 

Hare Krishna.

[Guest guest]

Hare krishna.

 

I sense the feeling of Max.

 

Maya is very strong. It can capture you at any time. If you are captured then you will have to go through the pangs of life for millions of births. With old age, disease, taxes, anxiety, rent, hassles, demonic humans, and so on.

 

If you can stick it out as a devotee for just one lifetime, then you can be liberated and go back to krishnaloka at the end. If you cannot then you will suffer for millions of births.

 

Just like taking an injection, it hurts for one second but it will cure you of the disease you are suffering from.

 

Similaraly being a devotee will hurt a bit but save you from millions of years of pain.

 

"If you become conscious of Me, you will pass over all the obstacles of conditional life by My grace. If, however, you do not work in such consciousness but act through false ego, not hearing Me, you will be lost."

(Lord Krishna BG 18.58)

 

"Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do." (Lord Krishna BG 18.68)

 

[Guest guest]

Hari Bol,

plz chant even when u don't want to..u must be prepared to chant for krishna even when u dnt want to..

all Krishna wants to see is whether u r prepared to chant for him wen u dnt feel like..

we must cross all obstacles to get to Krishna.

i hope this helps

chant Hare Krishna

 

[imported_yasodanandana]

Before 500 years ago there was no hare krishna mantra

••it is not exact... it was present but not given to everyone like we do now

 

Do you think that there were no devotees before 500 years ago?

 

••obviously there were infinite devotees.. but harinama, the chanting of the lord's name, was eternally practiced. There's and there was plenty of mantras in all kind of vedic worship, from "om namo bhagavate vasudevaya" to "govinda jaya jaya.."

Remember also thatKrsna and Chaiitanya Mahaprabhu do not come only one time, but they come cyclically from the eternity

 

The srimad bahgavatam describes 9 processes of devotional service, not one. Please read and follow the scriptures.

••scriptures say that you have to take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master to hope in future to be blessed by devotional service... and in our present times bona fide spiritual masters advice to "shravana.. then kirtana", to hear and speak Harinama to have access to any form of devotional service..

 

you can't' read Srimad Bhagavatam and simultaneously read in it that mahamantra is optional, who'll gave you initiation if you think like that? so how your devotional service will begin?

 

gaudya vaishnavas accept the statement "harer nama, harer nama, harer nama eva kevalam, kalau nasti eva, nasti eva, nasti eva gathir anyatha"

 

in kali yuga there's no other way

[Guest guest]

if you can not chant make sure all actions are for krishna not for your self. do your duties. try to follow the 4 pricipals but if u can not at least try to rember krishna at all times and know your only the vessal of krishna , you are not the doer your a robot of krishna only.

 

chanting is not the only way right now, we have many many lifetimes to work on this and heck burning in hell fire for a million years and still remebering krishna is better then forgeting krishna for a second,day or even a minute. as long as you remember him your fine.

desire for krishnaloka is selfish but it is human.

having him in your heart is all that one needs in this and all other lives.

a day with out krishna is death. heck if i had a good pounding from krishna at least i am in his presence LOL even if he knocked me accrossed the universe wit hhis last blow.

 

 

[imported_yasodanandana]

if you can not chant make sure all actions are for krishna not for your self.

•how you can have such devotion and simultaneously not the energy of chanting? If you love Krsna in such way to devoid all action to Him you will chant his name 24/24

 

chanting is not the only way right now, we have many many lifetimes to work

••no brother... we have to chant to quit this material world immediately. Krsna is the proprietor of karma, if we call Him at our rescue through his holy name (non different by Him) we'll easily be saved

 

desire for krishnaloka is selfish but it is human.

••no.. if we have strong desire to associate with krsna and the devotees in the spiritual world there's anything selfish. No selfish man can really desire to go in goloka where everything is service to sri krsna

 

a day with out krishna is death

••so why are you suggesting that chanting is not important? Krsna is His Holy Name... no difference, no discrimination

[Guest guest]

the last thing you said proved every thing else i said.

 

••so why are you suggesting that chanting is not important? Krsna is His Holy Name... no difference, no discrimination you destroyed all your arguments in the last statment LOL

[Guest guest]

"I no longer see the point in chanting, especially since I don't feel anything when I do so."

 

Perhaps I am wrong and if so I hope to be corrected. For me I don`t chant to feel something I chat as an expression of my feeling. I see the joy in my life and it is a chance for me to further express that joy. I chant because I am greatful for the gifts I have recieved and it is just a small part of my thanks.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

you HAVE to chant!!!

 

 

The Brihan-naradiya Purana (38.126) states:

 

harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha

 

"In this Age of Quarrel and Hypocrisy the only means of deliverance is chanting of the holy name of the Lord. There is no other way. There is no other way. There is no other way."

 

 

 

 

--

chanting is like stirring a big pot of soup

 

when u start to stir suddenly desires, just the like the vegetables begin to rise

firstly the small ones then as you stir more and more up come the big ones!

 

many people quit chanting because these desires are getting stirred up and they believe the chanting is making it harder - it's not really it''s just your desires gettign stired up.

 

Take a big spoon and eat those vegies off the top and keep on stiring!!!

[Guest guest]

the gita says chanting is not totally nessary as some can not do it infact most can not do it offenclessly. most people chant are actually offending the lord as they lack consentration and ability and most gurus are not even true devotees to begine with most are rascals.

chanting is not the only way to serve krishna, serve the devotees or sacrafice all your actions to krishna.

so stop fibbing.

[Guest guest]

the mahamantra is not the only mantra of lord krishna. there are others. try one of those that may give you a higher taste and then go back the the mahamantra. i personally find the mahamantra too much at certain times, like driving as i have fell into trance and even once had a OBE. i perfer OM namo naryannaya when working or driving or during the day.

 

Omkara (pranava) is considered to be the sound incarnation of the Supreme Personality of God and is identical with the Supreme Lord.

 

Om Krishnaya Namaha, try that in the off times.

 

make sure to say the pancha tattva mantra at lest 12 times before chanting. some even chant the names of lord nityanda or lord gauranga as a suppliment to their 16 rounds a day.

 

build up to the 16 rounds , heck to one round a day till you have mastered it and ad a round and eventually you will be able to chant the whole 16 in the mornings before breakfast. some slow chanters put more heart into chanting then any of these 16 rounders. one round with full intent on pleasing the lord is better then blasting out a 16 at machiene gun speed.

[Guest guest]

"most can not do it offenclessly. most people chant are actually offending the lord as they lack consentration and ability"

 

all the MORE reason to continue chanting.

How else to gain ability?

 

you dont learn how to ride a bike by refusing to get back on the first time you fall off

[Guest guest]

the gita says chanting is not totally nessary as some can not do it infact most can not do it offenclessly. most people chant are actually offending the lord as they lack consentration and ability and most gurus are not even true devotees to begine with most are rascals. "

 

Actually by your post alone you are causing offense to the Lord. Can you give me the names of those gurus you think aren't true devotees but rascals?

 

"chanting is not the only way to serve krishna, serve the devotees or sacrafice all your actions to krishna.

so stop fibbing."

 

So you're calling Lord Caitanya a liar then? You doubt the authority of the Lord by denying His instructions through that purana and His incarnation as Lord Caitanya?

 

[imported_yasodanandana]

"so why are you suggesting that chanting is not important? Krsna is His Holy Name... no difference, no discrimination "

 

"you destroyed all your arguments in the last statment "

 

nothing is destroyed, your problem is that you separate krsna from his holy name thinking that he can be reached neglecting it

 

another problem is that bhagavad gita says that you can reach krsna only if you surrender to a pure spiritual master

 

and if you approach a spiritual master he will ask to you to chant the holy name

 

so remembering krsna, living for krsna and simultaneoulsy thinking that his holy name is marginal is absolutely impossible

.

.

..

 

the gita says chanting is not totally nessary

--gita says that we have to keep krsna in mind (man mana....etc), but we cannotrelayy see krsna in our mind beause we do not have any transcendental vision, we are blinded by maya.

The only think we can do, to ask krsna to come in our mind is to chant his name. If we start fantasizing about krsna we will not reach anything, because we cannot capture him with our mind.. but if we chant hare krsna it is an effective spiritual experience, because the nama is krsna .....even if we do not realize it

 

infact most can not do it offenclessly

--being us in maya it is inpossible to start any devotional practice without making a certain amount of offences. Wich service you know that a neophite can do in a completely pure way? So being us offensive while chanting, the only medicine is to chant more and more. In this way we'll purify us and we'l purify our chant.

Chanting is especially meant for sinners, if we cannot chant when we are not yet realized, how we can get realization?

 

most gurus are not even true devotees to begine with most are rascals.

--a guru cannot be a rascal... if you see a rascal he's not a guru

 

serve the devotees

--the service that devotees want is to chant hare krsna... they're detached, they do not want any service for themselves

 

sacrafice all your actions to krishna.

--to talk is an action.. so we have to sacrifice this action of talking to krsna chanting his name

 

 

[Guest guest]

i see a pattern here, every post detracts from other posts or teachings or the posts negate each other.

 

there a lot of know-it-alls on this site. so it seems that lord chatanyas teachings are seeemingly in conflict with the BG.

we all know the issues of false gurus was and is a issue in our movment.

 

seems that some people are keeping the teachings that the raskals left behind.

 

max chanting is not the only service but chant you must.

 

i could produce infomation that would aggree with ALL the posts on this topic even one that others are in conflict with. so there is much room for argument.

 

there are many servants of krishna and don't get confused.

 

i know a vishnava pandit that used to work out of regular hindu temples with saivite and smarta priests, he likes all of swami prabhapada teachings but not his organization as it is today. like i said there are many servants of krishna. he is indian and seems very level headed and to be a true devotee, and has agreed to teach me as i have no desire to assocate with american devotees as i was raised buddhist and find americans hard to tolerate. i give them kudos but i am not interested in their assocation as i find it highly distracting.

 

max keep chanting, go where your comfortable and try to do it right.