Swaminaryan & Shikshapatri - Part 1

[samil]

I am amazed people here do not know any detail and they get into conversation or argument or advice

I joined this forum coz i thought people just dont talk...

 

I m not sure if u'll have even understood Bhagwad....all what everyone believes is what people do except Krishna is rubbish.....If Lord Krishna is looking at you he would be so much ashamed.....Lord give u brains to think it right

 

Why is Swaminaryan GOD? What does he say in Shikshapatri? Are Swaminaryan fools?

i am sure that you dont know what Swaminaryan is.....To have a birth in a Swaminaryan family does not mean u r MR.KNOW IT ALL.....coz Yadava's who were the closest to Lord Krishna did not undertsnad him then how can anyone say that by reading Shikshapatri or by having birth in Swaminaryan family they know all

http://www.swaminarayan.org/index.htm

hope this helps.....if you have any queries PLEASE ASK dont comment without having knowledge....

its always appreciated......

 

 

Jai Shri Krishna

Hare Hare Krishna Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Ram Hare Hare, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

 

mind you i m a SWAMINARYANA and I believe him as Parabrahma

[kcp1982]

Hare Krishna.

 

Read what swaminarayan says in the Shikshapatri at www.gitamrta.org/swaminarayan.htm

 

He clearly says Krishna is the supreme and we should all only worship Krishna, only Krishnaa.

 

It's a shame that the so-called swaminarayan followers are not following his instructions by ignoring Krishna and the Bhagavad-gita. As Srila Prabhupada would say 'they are raskals and fools'.

 

In the temples that swaminarayna built he placed Lord Krishna's deity in the center but in the temples that BAPS has built, krishna is far from the center. This clearly shows what BAPS is doing, insulting shree swaminarayan and Lord Krishna. BAPS is blind leading the blind to hell.

 

Read why Lord Krishna is the only God:

www.gitamrta.org/god.htm

 

[jagatpurush]

is a huge deviation from the original teachings.

[Guest guest]

Just to let you know, only reason why Lord Swaminarayan at that time had to say that Krishna is supreme is becuase at that time not many people belived that Swaminaryan is the supreme god. Not many people would understand that bhagwan Swaminaryan is supreme. Example you your self refuse to believe that bhagwan swaminarayan is supreme. So before you make any such foolish cliams read the entire shikshapatri along with the vachnamrut.

[Guest guest]

"Just to let you know, only reason why Lord Swaminarayan at that time had to say that Krishna is supreme is becuase at that time not many people belived that Swaminaryan is the supreme god."

 

a real follower of a guru has simply to follow the instruction of his guru, not to speculate on them. So if swaminarayan has said to worship krsna you are going against him if you worship him instead of krsna.

If you believe in your guru, you cannot avoid to follow his instructions.. every change is an offense to him even if you feel it as a progress..

 

a valid example of it was, when, in the middle of seventies, some followers said that Srila Prabhupada was God.. Prabhupada reacted saying that this was the most heavy dangerous attack to his mission and expelled such "followers"

[dvij]

in a reply to the long message where the bhakta talked about having studies all the scriptures in a lot of detail i write...

 

you quoted amdavad 6, but what about amdavad 7 where Shriji Maharaj writes "....Then when i looked within again, I realised that I am the creator, sustainer and destroyer of all the bhramands. In those countless bhramands, it is by My diving light that countless Shivs, countless Bhramas, countless Kailases, countless Vaikunths, GOLOK, Bhramapur, as well as countless millions of other realms are radiant" ~ amd-7

 

That answers quite a few questions.

 

Regarding Pramukh Swami and BAPS followers - i dont know who you spoke to who say that Pramukh Swami is God, but they arent BAPS followers, all followers of BAPS do NOT believe him to be God. We offer "sarkhi-Seva" as per Shriji Maharaj's words in Vadtal-10, thats all. Through him, we can attain liberation, but we do not believe him to be God. We also dont believe him to have attained the ekantik state, we believe him to have descended from Akshardham (already ekantik), and that through him God is 100% pragat on this Earth, and will remain so. This is the basis of BAPS. Therefore you can see why BAPS believe he is a unique Sadhu, and there is nobody like him on Earth.

[Guest guest]

i can't understand waht swaminarayn is all about. i did use that link but it's still not clear to me . can someoen plz explain?

thank u,

hare krishna

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

It is most unfortunate when someone extracts their own meaning from certain sections of scriptures and ignores the rest of that scripture itself.

 

I thought that I had gone over this in detail in my prior post, but looks like I'll have to do it again. Again a loooong post - but this is an important topic, so excuse the length.

 

In Amadavad-6, Maharaj states Akshardham is also known as Golok. Now tell me, do YOU, and YOUR sants, dispute these words of whom YOU believe to be GOD?? Why do you people pick and choose which verses are suited to you and which are not? Now, if He states that Akshardham is Golok, then, when he states in Amdavad 7 that he can move many Goloks, it means he can move many Akshardhams, which is the same thing.

 

At the beginning of the Vachanamrut, there is a detailed description of Maharaj and His abode. In the very first few paragraphs, it is stated that the Supreme Abode is Golok, and in the middle of Golok is Akshardham, and the Lord of that Akshardham is KRISHNA. Let me repeat, since it seems that your only read what you want to read - the Lord of that Akshardham that YOU are hungering after is KRISHNA. I am not stating that - YOUR scriptures are stating that.

 

He (Krishna) is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as stated REPEATEDLY by Maharaj. Now, there is a foolish and stupid and ridiculous and childish excuse made by some so-called devotees of Maharaj. That is that Maharaj could not say that he is God because no-one would believe Him. That is absolutely rubbish. Maharaj had divine powers - he did not need to care for what others felt. When you know something to be the truth, why would you change it because of what others may feel? There was a ridiculous comment by a BAPS devotee here some time ago that all avatars pray to other Gods during their incarnation, and that avatars dont go around telling that they are God. Krishna may have prayed to Lord Shiva before the battle of Kurukshetra, but WHEN did HE (KRISHNA) state that someone else is the Supreme? Did Krishna worry that no-one will believe him when he says that He is Purna-Purhsottam Narayan? No. He told us the Truth. And He told us repeatedly. Now, it is up to us to decide whether we want to believe it or not.

 

Maharaj has told you that there are 8 "authentic" scriptures. I dont agree that there are only 8, but for your satisfaction, we will limit our discussion to these 8 only.

 

In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna states CLEARLY that he is Purna Purshottam Narayan. He states that THERE IS NO OTHER WAY, let me repeat because seems that you dont want to believe it, THERE IS N-O OTHER WAY FOR LIBERATION THAN TO SERVE HIS LOTUS FEET.

 

In the Bhagavat Maha-purana, it Vyasji states "Krishna Tu Bhagawan swayam". In that scripture, which your Lord called authentic and repeatedly quoted from, it is stated that there are 3 stages to know the supreme absolute truth, while BAPS only accepts 2. The first stage is Brahman, whom you believe is currently incarnate. It is NOT that Bhagavan is manifested on this earth, it is that according to YOUR beliefs, it is Brahman who is manifest. So stop saying that God is manifest. The second stage is Para-Brahman, or Paramatma. We believe this to be Ksiridokashayi Vishnu, an expansion of Sankarsana, who is an expansion of Balarama, who is the first direct expansion of Purna Purshottam Shri Krishna. And the third stage, the Supreme Absolute Reality, The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Bhagavan, is Shri Krishna, as confirmed by Maharaj.

 

The eleventh canto of the Bhagavad Purana (or 11th skand in your speak) contains the Udhava Gita. Here, Shri Krishna, towards the end of His appearance here on Earth, has a conversation with Uddhava. Since you (Swaminarayan sampradaya) call yourselves an Uddhava Sampradaya, I recommend that you read it, although I HIGHLY doubt that many of your devotees even know what it is. In the Uddhava Gita, Krishna tells Uddhava what he told Arjuna, but in a more relaxed, friendly manner, without the urgency of the biggest war in modern history. It is again, repeatedly, confirmed that the Supreme Absolute Truth, Purna-Purshottam Narayan, the cause of all causes, the basis of Brahma and Para-Brahma, the cause of all avatars, is Shri Krishna.

 

Maharj Himself wrote the Shikshapatri. What does he tell us in the Shikshapatri? He says REPEATEDLY, worship Shri Krishna. Maharaj has told you in Vachanamrut and Shikshapatri, keep your Ishta-dev as Krishna. You do not. Why not? becuase you make stupid and foolish excuses like well, Maharaj really didnt mean that...he just said it so he wouldnt hurt people's feelings. Give me a break!! And give this message-board a break!! In the ONLY scripture that Maharaj wrote Himself, he says that the Supreme Absolute Truth, Purna-Purshottam Narayan, is KRISHNA. He says it clearly. Without a doubt. Even the BAPS edition of Shikshaptri is translated to reflect that meaning. It is up to you to decide whether to live by it or not.

 

Now, regarding Pramukh Swami. Again, there is no doubt in my mind that he is a Gunatit-sant. However, he is NOT God. Yes, I know that you say he is not God. And I know that if you ask any BAPS devotee in an "official" or "inquisitive" manner, they will tell you that he is not God. BUT, if you ask fellow satsangis during sunday satsang, you will be told that he is God Himself. I have been told this, many times. Also, according to all scriptures, including your own, one must surrender to a God-realized sant to attain liberation. I still dont understand where there is only one such sant in your entire sampradaya. Are the rest of your hundreds of sants not God-realized? If this is so, then WHY NOT?????? Why have the rest not attained the Paramahansa stage?

 

Towards the end of this post, I would like to say that PLEASE interpret the scripures in the way God wanted you to. Not by cherry-picking which scripures or verses you like or suite your needs. If you believe Maharaj to be God, then EVERYTHING he says must be true, including the fact that Krishna is the Supreme.

 

So, who is Maharaj? Well, in the last Vachanamrut, he tells us CLEARLY : "And Lord Shri Krishna in the form of Shri Narnarayan, has incarnated on this earth through Dharma and Bhakti. That is why I have installed Lord Narnarayan here in this temple in Ahmedabad by considering that image as my own image."

 

Finally, let us do a comparison here. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who was an incarnation of Lord Shri Krishna in the form of a devotee, said worship Shri Krishna. He established this sampradaya, the Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya. He said, worship Shri Krishna. So what do we do? We worship Shri Krishna as the Supreme, and Lord Caitanya as His incarnation. Lord Swaminarayan has told you that he is an incarnate form of Shri Krishna, and he has told you to worship Shri Krishna as the Supreme. What do you do? You worship Lord Swaminarayan as the supreme, and almost forget Shri Krishna.

 

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krisha Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

[Guest guest]

Just worship Lord Krishna and forget all other non-sense.

 

"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear." Lord Krishna (Bg. 18.66)

 

"Whatever a man may sacrifice to other gods, O son of Kunti, is really meant for Me alone, but it is offered without true understanding. I am the only enjoyer and the only object of sacrifice. Those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down." Lord Krishna (Bg. 9.23-24)

[Guest guest]

Of course not all 750 saints in the BAPS sampraday are not god realised. They have started to tread the path, it is no small achievement to be God-realised. However BAPS does have God-realised saints other than Pramukh Swami. However one misunderstanding you may have which i want to clear up. You said that BAPS followers will tell you in sunday sabha that he is God. NOBODY believes this. They just dont know how to phrase it. BAPS follows the Vishishadvait philosophy. That means that we believe God eternally resides in Akshardham, which has both a human and non-human form. Non-human in that it is the abode of God, and human in that it is also Bhram (or in Maharaj's time Gunatitanand Swami.) That Gunatitanand Swami is today 100% Pramukh Swami. We fully understand the difference between Bhram and Parabhram or Akshar and Purushottam. Pramukh Swami is Akshar. The difference between following Akshar and another God realised saint is that a God realised saint may attain liberation but he cannot grant liberation to others. However Pramukh Swami is Akshar. He was always God-realised and can grant liberation to others. That is the difference and why we follow him alone.

 

Now let me politely make my point. Diasagree if you wish. In Krishna's time, he could openly say he was God as many people did not have an Ishtadev. However Maharaj became the leader of an existing Sampraday (headed by Ramanand Swami) in which everyone believed Krishna to be Supreme Purushottam. At the start, no matter what you say he could not tell ordinary people he was God. That just doesnt work. Think about it. So the 2000 saints and 500 paramansas took him as their Guru, still believing Krishna as supreme. However over Maharaj's lifetime, through divine lila and talks he convinced all the Paramansas that he was on par with Krishna and senior saints such as Muktanand Swami, Niskulanand Swami etc believed Him to be supreme, above Krishna. They would not have believed this randomly, dont forget, they were previously staunch Vaishnavs.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

1. A guru does not grant liberation - all the shastras, including your own, prove this point; he points the path to it. God, and ONLY God, grants liberation. If a Guru is said to grant liberation, then let it be known that that liberation is bestowed ONLY by the mercy of God, through the Guru, and NEVER otherwise.

 

2. To attain liberation, one MUST seek the refuge of a God-realized, Gunatit sant, of whom Pramukh Swami is one.

 

3. In Krishna's time, people DID have Ishta-devs. In which shastra is it said that people did not??

 

4. I am not arguing the divinity of Lord Swaminarayan. I agree that he was divine. However, there is a principal philosophical point here, and that point is one of the main reasons of the bifurcation of the Swaminarayan Sampradaya. Maharaj has said, in clear and unequivocal terms, to worship Krishna. He said that at the beginning through towards the end of his appearance. He said in clear terms that He is in an avatar of Shri Krishna. Why do you repeatedly fail to accept this? Why do you people make excuses to explain your own interpretation of what he has told and written down for you?

 

6. No where have I read from the senior paramhansas that composed Vachanamrut in clear language that Maharaj is above Krishna. That is your interpretation. However, I have read repeatedly from these paramhansas that Maharaj is Krishna Purshotam Himself incarnate, and Maharaj states this clearly Himself.

 

7. Caitanya Mahaprabhu had innumerable disciples, followers, Paramhansas, etc. Lord Caitanya displayed innumerable divine Leelas with them. They are vividly described in Caitanya Bhagavata and Caitanya Charitamrita. This does not mean that He is "above" Krishna.

 

8. An extremely irritable point you brought up "they were previously stanch Vaishnavs". My dear friend, YOU are a Vaishnav also, IF you believe in Swaminarayan. Even BAPS says this. Read in the "Vachanamrut Handbook" under the different subsects of Vaishnavism, and Swaminarayan in one. You fall under the Udhav Sampradaya. So quit saying you are not Vaishnavs.

 

9. I am intelligent enough to distinguish the difference between statements of "Pramukh Swami is Bramaswarup" and "Pramukh Swami shakshat bhagawan chhe". This latter statement has been told to me repeatedly, by HIGHLY advanced BAPS devotees, and I am not saying that lightly. I have deep respect for their devotion. But dont agree with their own interpretation of what they are devoted to.

 

10. Read shastras as they are. There are innumerably commentaries on the Bhagavad Gita, including commentaries by some of Maharaj's paramahansas. ONLY ONE commentary has started an international organization, that too among non-Indians, and that is Bhagavad Gita AS IT IS. The most important part of the title is AS IT IS. Why? Because it explains the Gita the way God said it. DO NOT MAKE HUMAN INTERPRETATION OF DIVINE REVELATIONS !!!!

[Guest guest]

To clear up this confusion it may be worth having a read of 'Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers'

 

If you read carefully you will find great wisdom and inspiration in the points that Srila Prabhudasa makes about the world we live in.

 

Yuo will know longer have to take notice of man-made philosophies!

 

http://www.bvml.org/books/PQPA.html

[Guest guest]

Jai shree krishna.

 

Follow the Vedic scriptures which come from Lord Krishna himself as revealed to Brahma some 155 trillion years ago at creation. And not man made scriptures like the BAPS scriptures which have existed for less than 300 years.

 

BAPS can say whatever they want but they are not authority, as predicted 5000 years ago. In the age of Kali Yuga, many will pose as God and discredit the real god, Lord Krishna. All are all fools and raskals, just kick them in the face. That's what Srila Prabhupada stated.

[Guest guest]

These BAPS followers are totally ignorant to the truth, they are simply trying to destroy dharma by concocting their own scriptures with a new God.

 

There is no mention of swaminarayan or ashkardam in any Vedic scripture. Like Ravana and Kans, they are simply envious of Lord Krishna who is the only proven God, who is present in over 98% of the temples around the world. Swaminarayan in present in less than 0.5% of the temples around the world. Who is the supreme? It's very clear.

[Guest guest]

There are many persons who create incarnations. They falsely claim an ordinary human to be an incarnation, but this is all foolishness. We should follow the principles of Bhagavad-gita, otherwise there is no possibility of attaining perfect spiritual knowledge.

 

A devotee of Krsna cannot accept false incarnations or followers of false incarnations.

 

In other words, persons who mock Krsna are to be understood to be demonic or atheistic. As described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gita, such demonic miscreants never surrender to Krsna.

 

(by Srila Prabhupada from the Bhagavad-gita)

 

[samil]

whats ur tatva gnyan?

[Guest guest]

 

Jiv

Ishwar

Maya

Brahm

Parabrahm

 

 

the scriputures explain these as under:-

 

 

JIVA:-

'That which is living', derived from verb-root 'jiv' - to live. Individual, embodied soul still bound by mãyã and consequently undergoing the cycle of births and deaths. Infinite in number. With the three bodies - sthul (gross), sukshma (subtle), and kãran (causal) - and three states - waking, dream, and deep sleep. First of the five eternal entities.

 

 

 

ISHWAR:-

Second of the five eternal entities. Infinite in number. Similar to jiva with respect to being bound by mãyã - i.e., composed of the 24 elements2, having three bodies, three states, three gunas, desires, etc. - but involved in the processes and lordship of the brahmãnds, and thus endowed by God with greater powers. Brahmã, Vishnu, Shiv and all entities greater than them upwards to Prakruti-Purush, are considered ishwars.

 

Prakruti:-

‘Primal nature’. Divine energy or instrument of God that initiates the creation process by being ‘impregnated’ by Purush – also called Mul-Purush, Mahã-Purush, or Akshar-Purush – and from which countless pairs of Pradhãns and Purushes are ‘conceived’ for the creation and sustenance of each brahmãnd. Taken to be feminine in nature, she is composed of the three gunas, is both jad and chaitanya, eternal, nirvishesh, and in her dormant state houses all jivas and all elements. Also called Mul-Prakruti, Mul-mãyã, and even mahãmãyã.

 

Prakruti-Purush :-

The pair of Mul-Prakruti and Mul-Purush, from which countless pairs of Pradhãns and Purushes are formed for the creation and sustenance of each brahmãnd. Also called Mul-Prakruti-Purush.

 

prãkruti-pralay

‘General dissolution’. Destruction of the body of Virãt-Purush, i.e., of all 14 realms of one brahmãnd, and the absorption of Pradhãn-Purush and the 24 elements 2 including mahattattva into mahãmãyã, i.e., Mul-Prakruti {Bhugol-Khagol.13}. This occurs when the two-parãrdh lifespan of Virãt-Purush has elapsed

 

 

mãyã:-

Instrument or power of God used as the fundamental 'substance' of creation. By nature, it is composed of the three gunas, is both jad and chaitanya, eternal, nirvishesh, and in its dormant state - before the time of creation - houses all jivas and ishwars, and all elements. It is inspired by, controlled by, and dependent on God Himself. The jivas and ishwars must transcend mãyã, i.e., eradicate it within themselves, in order to attain Parabrahm.

 

Brahm:-

'Imperishable'. Second-highest of the five eternal entities; i.e., transcends everything except Purushottam. In his personal form, Brahma serves Parabrahm in His abode, and manifests as His ideal devotee, the Satpurush, on earth. Both forms are human in appearance

Alone, often taken to refer to the Brahma of the shushka-Vedãntis, i.e. the nirgun, formless and non-dual ultimate reality, apart from which, they claim, all else is merely an illusion.

The ishwar responsible for the creation of the brahmãnd and the life forms within it. Part of the trinity of ishwars, along with Vishnu (the sustainer) and Shiv (the destroyer), responsible for the governance of one brahmãnd. Not to be confused with Brahma, the second-highest of the five eternal entities.

 

 

Parabrahma:-

 

‘Supreme Brahma’, God. Also called Paramãtmã or Parabrahma. Highest of the five eternal entities – transcending even Brahma.

‘Supreme being’, God. God, is one and unparalleled, omnipotent and the all-doer, omniscient, omnipresent, the reservoir of all forms of bliss, devoid of any attributes of mãyã (i.e., divine), replete with all forms of redemptive attributes. Also called Parabrahma or Paramãtmã.

[Guest guest]

Just something to think about...:

 

If Swaminarayan says something in support of Krishna being supreme, all Krishna followers on this board use it to prove that Swaminarayan himself was saying Krishna was supreme.

 

Whereas if Swaminarayan says He Himself is surpeme, the Krishna followers say "you can't believe him. he was bogus"

 

Does that mean that when Swaminarayan says Krishna is supreme we can't believe him cos he is bogus?

 

Which is it to be? Either you listen to all he has to say or nothing. You can't pick and choose which quotes you agree with just because they propogate the philosophy you believe in...

 

Also, something VERY important to note:

 

When Swaminarayan was born and the astrologer Markandeya came to name him he was given three names: Hari (because he was born in the Kark rashi), Krishna (because he had a dark complexion) and Ghanshyam (for the same reason).

 

Therefore Just as Shri Krishna, Swaminarayan had many names including Krishna and Ghanshyam. And we know people referred to him as Krishna or Ghanshyam because all Swaminarayan Mandirs with marble/panchdhatu murtis have a murti of Harikrishna Maharaj next to Shri Radha Krishna and a murti of Ghanshyam Maharaj as well.

 

Therefore when Swaminarayan Bhagwan talks of Krishna being supreme, isn't it possible he could be reffering to himself?

[Guest guest]

 

 

the scriputures explain these as under:-

 

 

 

Which scriptures?

 

 

JIVA:-

'That which is living', derived from verb-root 'jiv' - to live. Individual, embodied soul still bound by mãyã and consequently undergoing the cycle of births and deaths. Infinite in number. With the three bodies - sthul (gross), sukshma (subtle), and kãran (causal) - and three states - waking, dream, and deep sleep. First of the five eternal entities.

 

 

 

Missing points are: what is the nature of jiva souls? Where do they arise from? Why are they subject to Maya? Are all jiva souls subject to Maya? Why did ParaBrahm make them suffer? etc. etc.

 

 

ISHWAR:-

Second of the five eternal entities. Infinite in number. Similar to jiva with respect to being bound by mãyã - i.e., composed of the 24 elements2, having three bodies, three states, three gunas, desires, etc. - but involved in the processes and lordship of the brahmãnds, and thus endowed by God with greater powers. Brahmã, Vishnu, Shiv and all entities greater than them upwards to Prakruti-Purush, are considered ishwars.

 

 

 

Vishnu is the ParaBrahm.

 

From Bhagavad-Gita 10.12-13

 

arjuna uvaca

param brahma param dhama

pavitram paramam bhavan

purusam sasvatam divyam

adi-devam ajam vibhum

 

ahus tvam rsayah sarve

devarsir naradas tatha

asito devalo vyasah

svayam caiva bravisi me

 

TRANSLATION

Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Narada, Asita, Devala, and Vyasa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me.

 

 

 

guest said:

 

The jivas and ishwars must transcend mãyã, i.e., eradicate it within themselves, in order to attain Parabrahm.

 

 

 

All the "ishwars" you mention viz. Brahma, Vishnu, Siva are already above maya.

 

 

guest said:

 

In his personal form, Brahma serves Parabrahm in His abode, and manifests as His ideal devotee, the Satpurush, on earth. Both forms are human in appearance

Alone, often taken to refer to the Brahma of the shushka-Vedãntis, i.e. the nirgun, formless and non-dual ultimate reality, apart from which, they claim, all else is merely an illusion.

The ishwar responsible for the creation of the brahmãnd and the life forms within it. Part of the trinity of ishwars, along with Vishnu (the sustainer) and Shiv (the destroyer), responsible for the governance of one brahmãnd. Not to be confused with Brahma, the second-highest of the five eternal entities.

 

 

 

I think you are confusing Brahma with Brahm (or Brahman).

 

 

guest said:

 

Parabrahma:-

 

‘Supreme Brahma’, God. Also called Paramãtmã or Parabrahma. Highest of the five eternal entities – transcending even Brahma.

‘Supreme being’, God. God, is one and unparalleled, omnipotent and the all-doer, omniscient, omnipresent, the reservoir of all forms of bliss, devoid of any attributes of mãyã (i.e., divine), replete with all forms of redemptive attributes. Also called Parabrahma or Paramãtmã.

 

 

 

And who is it?

Bhagavad Gita 10.42

 

atha va bahunaitena

kim jnatena tavarjuna

vistabhyaham idam krtsnam

ekamsena sthito jagat

 

TRANSLATION

But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe.

 

 

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.16.51

 

aham vai sarva-bhutani

bhutatma bhuta-bhavanah

sabda-brahma param brahma

mamobhe sasvati tanu

 

TRANSLATION

 

All living entities, moving and nonmoving, are My expansions and are separate from Me. I am the Supersoul of all living beings, who exist because I manifest them. I am the form of the transcendental vibrations like omkara and Hare Krishna Hare Rama, and I am the Supreme Absolute Truth. These two forms of Mine -- namely, the transcendental sound and the eternally blissful spiritual form of the Deity, are My eternal forms; they are not material.

 

 

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.15.35-36

 

aham atmantaro bahyo

'navritah sarva-dehinam

yatha bhutani bhuteshu

bahir antah svayam tatha

 

TRANSLATION

 

Just as the same material elements exist within and outside of all material bodies, similarly, I cannot be covered by anything else. I exist within everything as the Supersoul and outside of everything in My all-pervading feature.

 

 

 

 

So Krsna or Vishnu is the ParaBrahm or Paramatma according to Vedic scriptures.

[Guest guest]

The devotees on this board are inclined to accept Sahajananda Swami as a true Vaishnava Guru. The question is not only about whether Sahajananda Swami is the Supreme Person or not, it is mainly about the authenticity of Vachnamruta and other scriptures of SwamiNarayana followers because they contain conclusions that are opposed to the Vedic understanding. But the Shikshapatri, which is the only one supposed to be written by Sahajananda Swami, conforms to the Vedic principles.

 

 

Which is it to be? Either you listen to all he has to say or nothing. You can't pick and choose which quotes you agree with just because they propogate the philosophy you believe in...

 

 

 

WE pick and choose that part which conforms to the Vedic principles. Naturally, the parts which do not conform find no favour here but you want us to reject Sahajananda Swami completely ... but why do you ignore the shikshapatri is still a mystery

[Guest guest]

Swaminarayan preached Krishna consciousness but BAPS have changed this to 'Swaminarayan consciousness'.

 

They have simply conocted another God.

 

Just like the Christians who worship Jesus as God and ignore the real God according to the Christian scriptures, Jehova.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Lord Krishna says in Gita that people will turn religion into ir-religion and vice versa. One thing to always remember is that Krishna can only be understood by devotion and not by scholarship or mental speculation.

 

It is good that so many people ask questions. The supremacy and of Krishna is without doubt which has been established by sages based on their realizations, multiple bona-fide vedic scriptures like Gita, Srimad Bhagwatam, Brahma Samhita, Upanishads, several other Puranas and the opinion of the compiler of these scriptures Ved Vyas himself.

[Guest guest]

I have read with interests the posts on this topic. I have been highly impressed with the ISKCON followers' awareness of particular Vachanamruts and Shreeji Maharaj's expositions.

 

One thing must be said.

BAPS are FAKE. FOUNDATIONLESS. CONFUSED.

What is Pramukh Swami?

God Realised?

Pragat Brahm?

Akshardham? WHAT is He?

 

NOWHERE in ANY Hindu scripture OR Swaminarayan's teachings has it been stated that Akshar incarnates as a satpurush on this earth. That is complete nonsense invented by Yagnapurush for his own worship.

 

Any arguments based on the Askhar Purushottam invention should be discarded.

True representation of the Swaminarayan faith should be accepted ONLY from the original NarNarayan Dev or Vadtal Gadis www.swaminarayan.info

 

As a Swaminarayan follower I would like to agree that Swaminarayan Bhagwan has clearly stated that His followers should worship Krishna.

[Guest guest]

YOU THINK THAT PRAMUKHSWAMI IS NOT GOD. YOU ARE NOT MAN BECAUSE YOU HAVE EYES BUT YOU CAN NOT SEE WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG. YOU HAVE MIND BUT YOU CAN NOT THINK. IF YOU CAN BELIEVE IN SHREE KRISHANA NO ONE HAVE SEEN HIM BUT YOU CAN NOT BELIEVE IN PRAMUKHSWMAI WHO IS INFRONT OF YOU , THEN NO ONE ELSE IS LOOSER. BUT JUST YOU ARE THE LOSER.

 

PRAMUKHSWMAI NEVER SAYS THAT HE IS GOD. HE NEVER PRAISES HIMSELF. BUT WHO WANTS TO BE A PERSON FOLLOWS THEM

[Guest guest]

Pramukh Swami is not God, that's for sure.

 

BAPS has simply concocted their own beliefs. They are ignorant brainwashed fools.

 

Follow the real and original swaminaryan movement, which preaches that worship Lord Krishna only.