Humans have the ability to be the supreme controller

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Only in the way that its a selfish interest, impersonal liberation doesn't do any service for Krishna. Becoming Void doesn't do anything for Krishna. In fact all the previous inflate your ego even more. No Bhakti, no substance, Nothing. This is not what is taught in the Gita. Gita teaches Pure Bhakti.

[Guest guest]

Geetha teaches pure action & renunciation to universal self or its personality which is krishna. If arjuna had both of these, he would not have dropped the bow and there would not be bagawad geetha. Arjuna might have had the spiritual relization before, and Bagawad geetha gave him the personality to live it every moment.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Geetha teaches pure action & renunciation to universal self or its personality which is krishna.

 

 

Krishna says He is absolute. So its includes Universal self, His impersonal aspect, and His Personality and Form.

[Guest guest]

you are free to impose what you think other "philosophies" say on them it is not going to change the actual truth. If you choose to improperly view after incomplete study then of them that is up to you. You should try however to get rid of these biases. It is a pity that these are introduced in the training at ISKCON as well. I have even heard classes expressly for the purpose of defeating mayavada and buddhist philosophies. The teaching should only be spread by love not by inculcating petty biases based on superficial impressions of other philosophies.

 

If you think that anything you are doing is for Krsna's benefit you are mistaken. Whatever you are doing is for your own benefit alone. Why could krsna possibly need you for anything? He is eternally immersed in his own bliss, full of all opulences. How exactly are you benefitting him? Whatever you do, he accepts for YOUR BENEFIT not HIS. Ego is a problem in all systems, if it is not I am better because I am a jnani it is because I am a better bhakta. See how ego has arisen even in the bhakti movements. Now they call everyone fools and rascals and decry everyone because they feel themselves to be better. What a tragedy. Bhagavan NEVER taught this stifling limiting way. His words are pure, all encompasing. He said that bhakti may be the EASIEST and happiest way, but he also said that there are other ways and that depending on people's disposition they will be impelled to follow the others. The geeta does not ONLY teach Bhakti, if you are a bhakta you will think it is only about that, just as some jnanis think it is only about jnana and others think it is only about karma yoga.

 

ps.. Even if buddhism was voidism and everything was void.. that would make the ego void too.

 

 

[Guest guest]

YES, if not undertaken properly under the shelter of a true guru. That is why Shankara says that one should never undertake the study of vedanta by oneself even though one may be a great learned scholar.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

ps.. Even if buddhism was voidism and everything was void.. that would make the ego void too.

 

 

Ego means not wanting to serve Krishna.

 

The rest of your rant [i've been wanting to use that word since forever]. I don't really agree. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

YES, if not undertaken properly under the shelter of a true guru. That is why Shankara says that one should never undertake the study of vedanta by oneself even though one may be a great learned scholar.

--

 

Only way in this age is to chant. Bhaja Govindam. Even for impersonal realization, you need to chant. Both. Chant and read. But I don't see many who follow Sankara by chanting.

[Guest guest]

The rest of your rant [i've been wanting to use that word since forever]. I don't really agree.

 

 

I wouldn't really call it a rant though, it was not really in that tone. Anyway you don't have to agree. I am just putting forward what I know by experience and you yours.

 

I am interested in one thing though.. How does Krsna benefit by someone chanting his name?

[Guest guest]

The almighty can be found within you. This I happen to have found out on my own. Yes, I have been seeking the lord by the world means but to no avail. It was not until I almost had a mental breakdown due to my subconcious telling me negative things including that God had abandoned me. I even thought of the Devil as being a powerful being with a more busy presence. I felt completely lost, until I realized where the lord was located. God lives within us and only we ourselves can find him. The same with Satan, if we give our subconcious the allowance to believe and submerge into negative thoughts, we give satan the power to enter us. I kinda always knew that, but I didnt understand it fully until I used my own mind to analize it. This then gave me the power to control everything. Once I knew this, it was like satan also knew I had found out...and he rarely comes around to try again. At this point in life it has probably cost me life years by suffering, but at least I did not die yet and was able to find out. Also the subconcious seem to be a major tool to enlightened oneself, since it controls everything in your body, blood flow, nervous system, etc...for what I have learned if your mind, subconcious, etc..is not in tune, there is no God. Our God is one thing. But if I never existed "my God" would have never be.

[Guest guest]

Exactly how many places did you copy this message ??

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

How does Krsna benefit by someone chanting his name?

 

 

Noted from a lecture I heard by Vaishnava-

It is our benefit, no benefit to Krishna, Krishna doesn't require our chanting, but we require to chant His Name. Because we want to go back to Him, we want to join Him. Without us His pastimes are going on. He is missing each one of us in His pastimes, though still his pastimes are going on. He will recieve our service, from Vaithuntaloka or Goloka. So we have to chant for our benefit. If somebody chants our name we become happy, so same way Krishna becomes happy in spiritual Rasa. Krishna becomes so greatful that He chants our name. So how to get into the heart of the Lord? Then one should chant His holy names, then Lord recogzines us.

[Guest guest]

So they said that it is NOT for his benefit but then said it is?

 

How is it that Krsna misses us if he is eternally full of bliss? Also how does he miss us if he is the self seated in the heart of all beings? Isn't he with us always? I thought this is the message he sent with Uddhava to the gopees, that his aim in staying away from them is for them to realize his presence inside them and for them to realize that he is with them always

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

This should answer you question [1st part]. I asked this to a devotee, he said it was ok to post here.

 

How does Krsna benefit by someone chanting his name?

--

Your question is interesting. You have asked how Krsna benefits when someone chants His name. So, I have two responses. The first response is that Krsna benefits when His name is chanted purely or when a pure devotee is in a loving relationship with Him. Krsna enjoys the exchange with His pure devotees. That is why we were created in the first place. God wanted to enjoy lila so he created multitudes of living entities, all endowed with free will. He does not want to force anyone to love Him; rather He wants to be loved because of His charm and transcendental qualities. Now we are endeavoring to unravel the mystery of love, which is an unconditional experience that occurs when you are helplessly attached to the welfare of another. To taste such Divine love for Krsna is like no other love. It has no equal. No Personality can capture the heart as deeply as Krsna. If you read Nectar of Devotion, you find that above ruci and bhava is the stage of prem. This means that when the individual soul finally understands that he is meant for full engagement in the lila of Lord Krsna, he actually surrenders to Krsna and accepts a loving exchange with the Lord. In the material world, when a mother finally gives birth , her whole world changes; she stops everything else and accepts the responsibilities of loving and nourishing her child. Similarly, when a Krsna devotee in this world finally understands that Krsna Consciousness is everything, he surrenders to his nature and engages in loving Krsna exclusively. Now the Lord is free to be Himself in the arms of His devotee. Prabhupada says that both the Lord and His pure devotee shine like a diamond in a ring. In other words, they are both free to enjoy rasa on the most intimate imaginable platform, with the Lord always being the object and cause of love. So, Krsna is always interested in deep loving relationships because they fit perfectly into His nature. In fact, the more relationships the better and the more intrigue the better. He loves to satisfy His devotee's love for Him. So, there you have it! Krsna benefits from the pure chanting and relationships with His pure devotees because He loves to reciprocate their loving feelings for Him.

 

The other response to your question would be more appropriate for those who are fresh on the path. It is not so much how Krsna benefits because we know that Krsna is atmarama or self satisfied. He does not need anything from anyone to be happy. But for one who chants the Holy Name of Krsna, Krsna is no longer impartial but becomes that devotee's friend and guide. So, it is us who are benefiting by associating with Krsna the Supreme Pure. Just like the sun that shines on all things. Even something dirty becomes benefited by the shining rays of the sun. So the sun is impartial yet good by nature. It helps everyone and yet never becomes dirty in the process. Krsna is the same. He descends to the material world in His original body just to benefit us yet never becomes contaminated in the process.

 

Krsna comes to recruit prospects for the spiritual world. If someone is ready, he becomes attracted by Krsna's message. If someone is attracted to Krsna, then Krsna sends his bona fide representative to give daily guidance. With regular practice, the remaining contamination that covers that devotee is removed and he becomes free to express unbounded love for the Lord. That is how Krsna recovers His devotees. This process goes unnoticed by the nondevotees but the devotees know this to be true. It has been going on for the entire life of the universe and will never stop. Prabhupada compares Krsna's appearance and disappearance to the sun that rises on one area of the universe while setting on another area of the universe. So Krsna is always somewhere within the material world, doing His road show to attract devotees Back to Home, Back to Godhead.

 

Mahashaki dasa

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the explanation. So by benefit you did not mean benefit in the traditional sense, it was really for want of a better word. That is altogether different. I don't however totally agree with the concept of God having desires or needs, but that is another story.

[Guest guest]

 

 

You also have needs and desires. But God also has them, just in different way. Just like God desires our welfare. God wants to enjoy Himself. God wants to create. God wants to come to this planet. If God didn't desire this means His impersonal aspect. In His personal aspect He desires. So therefore the conclution is His personal aspect is by far superior. God can create time, space, atmosphere everything. [This material creation].

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

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