Guest guest Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Thank God! Atleast you accepted Lord Shiva as a God and the fact that he is the liberator od souls! ANd that he is the Paramatma! Hare Krishna! To undertand the true nature of Lord Siva is beyond the undertanding of any human being! Srila Prabhupada or not! Siva is siva! Whether he is yogurt or milk himself is a way how you look at it! He is divinity and I don't consider myself qualified enough to comment on the Lord's personality. In Mahabharata Shri Bhisma refers to Krishna as Siva and says that he can comment on anything, but since Lord Krisna himself is here he has no power to comment on Siva! Then Krisna praises Siva! Hari Bol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 I agree with Godsed. Mantra does not mean "That by repeating which comes liberation" It means "that by understanding which comes liberation" You have to understand what Krsna means "The all attractive" and what is all attractive? What does SIVA mean... Changeless Deathless Auspiciousness. and what is that? it is not to just say, you must understand and that will build your devotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Although the question was not directed toward me or toward this I found it interesting. This is a common question that plagues man... why am I here? What is my purpose? what is the ultimate goal? etc... A goal only exists for a doer, a performer. Krsna is the only doer, only performer. What remains to be done by him? What remains to be achieved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 This might be interesting to read: what Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana has to say about the name Siva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 "Then Krisna praises Siva!" Krishna always praises His best friends. For instance when He praised His good old friend that came to visit Him after a long time called Sudhama Brahmana. I think I can remember something I read said by Rupa Gosvami that no ordinary soul can (or maybe it was no one) can understand why Siva and Krishna worship each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Forgot to insert the link: http://www.gopaljiu.org/Publications/Magazines%20Individual/8_Shiva2.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Krsna praises his best friends but not prays to them as he does to Lord Siva. There is a marked difference. I don't think you can compare his washing the feet of sudama to his adoration of Lord Shiva. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 So True! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Rupa Goswami said the right thing. Indeed, no ordinary soul can understand why Siva and Krishna worship each other! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 "Krsna praises his best friends but not prays to them as he does to Lord Siva. There is a marked difference. I don't think you can compare his washing the feet of sudama to his adoration of Lord Shiva." I believe you're right about that. Krishna admires Siva unlimited. If Siva is even most worshipable for Krishna Himself He is certainly worshipable for fallen souls or even pure devotees. Even mother Yasoda worshipped Siva. Siva is to be worshipped even just for being Krishna's best friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Maybe it was just a poor choice of words, in that case, no problem. You said: "Christians propagate that since Christ said you come to God but only through me, all other ways are untrue." The exact quote is: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6) Did Jesus lie? I don't think so. Jesus lived a perfect life. A life that would make a much better world if we would all try to emulate it. Jesus Christ's life on this earth is historically proven. Can you say the same for Shiva, Brahma, or Vishnu? God Bless you, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Post deleted by Admin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Hare Krishna. Read www.gitamrta.org/god.htm The Vedic religion is based on following a seen and proven God. Not a man. The Vedic religion is the only one based on an unlimited stream of prophets and not one-man based or man made like all other religions. It's also the oldest religion (www.gitamrta.org/bridge.htm). According to the Christian scriptures, Adam and Eve were the first humans and they lived 6000 years ago. This is complete non-sese according to the bones of man which can be found in many Museums aronud the world. Follow God, Lord Krishna, and not a man who was crucified. Otherwise you too will be crucified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Post deleted by Admin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Some Christians believe that Jesus was God, even though Jesus himself clearly never declared nor proved he was God. The others waste their life following and thinking about Jesus, but never enquire about his father, God. We should enquire about God and discover who he is. According to Jesus, his father (God) was in his heart. The Bhagavad-gita is the only scripture which states who is in the heart of all living beings. That's Lord Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Do not in your haste to defend your beliefs condemn another's even if it is the one of the person condemning yours. Jesus was a great teacher, when he said the only way is through him it means through his teachings, love for God. When people make such foolish statements as the only way being though jesus, ask them simply what does that mean? What does believing in jesus mean? It means following what he did his teachings, the path of Bhakti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 I once heard that Swami Prabhupada said that the devotees like distributing the books more than reading them, how true it seems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 Namaskar, According to the teachings of Shrii Shrii Anandamurti both Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna came to the earth at difficult moments in the history of humankind to restore Dharma. Both are seen as Bhagavan, Taraka Brahma or Mahakaulas. Although Anandamurti declares avatarism (incarnation of Saguna Brahma into a single human body) as illogical, both Shiva (about 7000 years ago) and Krishna (about 3500 years ago) are considered as personal manifestations of the Supreme who have restored the rule of Dharma to this planet. So there is no scope to declare either of them as superior of inferior to the other. They each came at a different time in the development of the human race and hence their roles had to be somewhat different to fit the the culture and the circumstances of their days. Avinash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 jai shri krsna i have been reading the comments giving by you people well i am not fully verse in the various scriptures that our dharma provides for us this is how i see it Lord SHIVA and Lord Krsna too are the same Krsna resides in Lord SHIVA and SHIVA resides in LORD KRSNA so i will say that both are the PARAMATMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 link link link moderator note: links shortened to keep page from going off screen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Lord Krishna is a dedicated devotee of Lord Shiva, and Lord Shiva is a devotee of Sri Krishna. Jai Sri Krishna! Om Namah Shivaaya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 Lord Shiva is like Krishna's arm,part of Him, always serving Him but never equal to Him. Even Lord Shiva himself was offended when he was addressed as the supreme. All our guru's from the bonafide parampara stress the importance of worshiping with one pointed exclusive devotion, not the "all manifestations are equal" ideas that are suggested here. They are most harmful to obtaining Krishna prema. Hare Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2005 Report Share Posted August 5, 2005 Lord Krishna is the supreme personality of Godhead. No doubt about it. However, Krishna and Shiva are complementary to each other. Krishna in Krishna avtar and Ram Avtar prayed to Lord Shiva & Lord Shiva prays to Krishna. Lord Shiva is param Vaishnav. Even Tulsidas says that I pray to Shiva to grant me Ram Bhakti, because Shiva is param bhakt of Ram. Lord Shiva became Hanuman - again a Param Vaishnav. The divine lok is after Brahma Lok, which is in Maya. In the divine lokas, after Brahma jyoti effulgence, where souls who attain moksha reside, is the Shiva Parvati Lok - in the spiritual world, after that is Saket - Sita Ram Lok and beyond that is Krishna's lok. So, Lord Shiva is not a demi-god. He is God, just as Laxman, Bharat & Shatrughna. It is chatur vyuh and then the 5th one is Shankar. Also, you must know that Shankar & Parvati got MAHA RAS, which MahaLaxmi or Brahma did not get. Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar are Swansh, personal power of Krishna. It is the most henious Vaishnav Apradh to discriminate between Shiva & Krishna. However, one must be sure to ask forgiveness from Shiva or Hanuman regarding this. They will surely forgive if you sincerely ask forgiveness and also ask them for Krishna Bhakti, because Shiva considers Radha Krishna Bhakti to be the topmost. Sita loved Hanuman as Her own child and that is the #2 position of Lord Shiva, after Ram. That is true. Radha & Sita both are very fond of Lord Shiva / Hanuman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somesh Kumar Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 ...I want to hear from one of the practitioners of KC, a bhakta, to tell me exactly how one can reconcile these two things: Though I am not a real bhakta in the sense of the word, but I will give a few inputs to your very nice query. Here it is: (1) Personal form of Lord is highest Yes, Personal form of Krishna is the highest. The reason is Krishna Himself says that Brahman or the light which the people meditate as God is actually based on Krishna. Or in other words the existence of Brahman is dependent on Krishna's existence as stated by Krishna: [ Brahmano Hy Pratishthaaham Amrtasya Avyayasya Cha Shaashvatasya Cha Dharmasya Sukhasya Aikantikasya Cha "And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable and eternal." - BG 14:27 - http://www.asitis.com/14/27.html ] Also in Shree Ishopanishad it is clearly stated to Krishna to kindly remove His effulgence so that the devotee can see the transcendental face of Krishna as: [ Hiranmayena Paatrena Satyasya Apahita Mukham Tat Tvam Pushan Apaavrnu Satya Dharmaaya Drshtaye "O my Lord, sustainer of all that lives, Your real face is covered by Your dazzling effulgence. Please remove that covering and exhibit Yourself to Your pure devotee. " - Shree Ishopanishad Mantra 15 - http://www.acbspn.com/books/iso/iso15.htm ] So this clearly proves to us beyond doubt that the personal form of Krishna is the Supreme and everything else including the impersonal Brahman is based on Krishna's transcendental form! (2) Yet both Krishna and Shiva are described as Paramatma. Actually Krishna and Shiva are simutaneously one and different [Achintya Bheda Abheda Tattva of Shree Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu]. It is said in Brahma Samhita that Krishna and Shiva are like milk and curd respectively. Just like the curd can be made from milk but not vice-versa, similarly Krishna is the cause of Shiva and Lod Shiva has the most percentage of qualities similar to Krishna. Hence there is nothing wrong if Lord Shiva is also addressed as Parmaatma by Lord Brahma who has less percentage of Krishna's qualities then Lord Shiva. The particular verse in Brahma Samhita where Lord Brahma Himself is acknowledging this fact is here: <center> [ ksiram yatha dadhi vikara-visesa-yogat sanjayate na hi tatah prthag asti hetoh yah sambhutam api tatha samupaiti karyad govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami </center> <center> "Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Sambhu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction." - BS 5.45 - http://brahmasamhita.com/5/45/en ] </center> Please, i only hear from some impersonalist in this forum. Can any bhakta please explain the above? I'm sure this forum is not for impersonalists but for people who accept Krishna as The Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we should be patient and pray to Krishna that everyone gets the intellgence to understand Him at least a little bit ! I'd really appreciate it. Thanks in advance. Hope some of your points are catered for. Thanks for raising such a nice question! Hare Krishna! Dasanudasa // Somesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sefroth77 Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 How can all of you forgot these verse from the Bhagavad Gita... "I shall now explain the knowable, knowing which you will taste the eternal. Brahman, the spirit, beginningless and subordinate to Me, lies beyond the cause and effect of this material world."(Bhagavad Gita 13.3) Brahman(formless) is subordinate to the form of Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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