Don't mistake silence for weakness

[Guest guest]

as a side note..one of the 108 names of Swaminarayan is 'Krishna'. Something to think about while you think of youre next completely off the topic point.

 

JS

[Guest guest]

jai shree krishna.

 

Even Swaminarayan and Pramukh swami states in the sikhsapatri as follows:

 

“My followers who shall observe strictly the rules of the ethics as prescribed by the scriptures shall derive happiness here and hereafter; and those who want only transgress them and behave willfully shall suffer great distress here and in the life hereafter.” Shree Swaminarayan.

 

“One Should observe the codes of the Shikshapatri at any cost” Pramukh Swami Maharaj.

 

Off course Pramukh Swami doesn't follow the rules himself. That's the problem. He says follow the Shikshapatri, which means worship only krishna, but he doesn't. Those who are in darkness will not get this.

 

It's better to eat meat and worship Krishna then to be vegetarian and not worship Krishna.

 

 

[Guest guest]

The Teachings of Shree Swaminarayan – Krishna Consciousness

 

 

From the Shikshapatri, written by Shree Swaminarayan

 

 

 

“My followers who shall observe strictly the rules of the ethics as prescribed by the scriptures shall derive happiness here and hereafter; and those who want only transgress them and behave willfully shall suffer great distress here and in the life hereafter.” Shree Swaminarayan.

 

 

 

“One Should observe the codes of the Shikshapatri at any cost” Pramukh Swami Maharaj.

 

 

 

Who is God?

 

 

 

The Paramatma – Shree Krishna who is supreme, Parabrahman, Bhagwan or Purushottam and who is the cause of all manifestations is the Lord of us all. He is to be worshipped for final redemption. (108)

 

 

 

Who Should We Worship?

 

 

 

All human beings on this Earth shall worship him [Lord Krishna] knowing that there is no other way for ultimate redemption than devotion to him. (113)

 

 

 

None shall practice devotion to Shree Krishna while disregarding religious tenets nor shall he give up the worship of Shri Krishna for fear of calumny by the ignorant. (39)

 

 

 

Who Should We Meditate Upon?

 

 

 

I meditate in my heart on Shree Krishna, Brindavan’s gay divine player on left is Radha and in whose bosom dwells Lakshmi (1)

 

 

 

Lord Krishna, his incarnations and his idols alone are to be meditated upon, but a human being or a deva even though he may be a devotee or knower of Brahman shall never be resorted to as an object of meditation. (115)

 

 

 

Who Should We Sing To?

 

 

 

All my followers shall go to the temple every evening and there they shall sing loudly songs in praise of Lord Krishna, the beloved of Radha. (63)

 

 

 

Who Should We Offer Food To?

 

 

 

They shall then offer food to God and take prasad only from the offered dish. Thus, in a spirit of supreme love and dedication they should serve Shree Krishna. (58)

 

 

 

Those votaries shall never drink water or eat roots, fruits or like without offering the same to Shree Krishna. (60)

 

 

 

Which Deity Should We Worship?

 

 

 

They shall worship Shri Krishna’s idol made of either stone or metal or a shaligram with offerings procurable within ones own means, and then chant his holy name. (56)

 

 

 

What Should We Do at the Beginning of Each Day?

 

 

 

They shall then reverently bow down to the images of Radha and Krishna and chant the holy name of the lord in accordance with their usual and normal procedures, only, after which they should start their daily routines. (54)

 

 

 

All my disciples shall awake before sunrise and after meditating on Shree Krishna shall proceed to discharge their bowels. (49)

 

 

 

Who Should We Give Donations To?

 

 

 

My disciples shall give in donation one tenth of their income or food grains, if that be their agricultural income, in the service of Lord Krishna. Those with insufficient means shall donate one-twentieth of their income, either in kind or money. (147)

 

 

 

Should A Wife Serve Her Husband?

 

 

 

The female followers shall serve their husbands, be they blind or ailing or poor or impotent in the manner in which they worship and serve God; and under no circumstances shall they speak harshly to them. (159)

 

 

 

The Final Prayer of Shree Swaminarayan

 

 

 

May Lord Shree Krishna, the destroyer of all miseries of his devotees, the defender of Dharma and Bhakti and the giver of all cherished objects, spread his goodness and glory every where. (212)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

once again i applaud you. Swaminarayan authorised the Vachamrut. He read every letter of it and accepted it as the truth. Explain why he said he was supreme. Explain this. Thats all i am asking.

 

Btw, imagine Shriji Maharaj releasing a code of conducts book telling everyone to worship him alone. That would be good wouldnt it.

 

Ok, all i ask for is an explanation as to why he said in the Vachanamrut that he himself is supreme. Explain it.

 

Also, you cant say that he is simply false, for example he used to put people into samadhi. He mastered Ashtang Yoga. There is only 1 person before him who had done that. That was Krishna. Explain this also.

 

Please directly answer these two questions

[Guest guest]

dont just quote verses from the Shikshapatri which is already explained

[Guest guest]

Jai shree krishna.

 

One should only follow authorized scriptures which come from God himself from the beginning of creation and not man made scriptures which were recently created.

 

Thus the Vachamrut is not worth the paper it's written on.

 

I guess it's too late to save you in this life time. Never mind, you will see the truth in your future birth.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

So I guess for all you - you all do tilak daily to school, work , etc. you read holy books daily, you all dont eat onions or garlic or eat out at restaurants, you all don't watch tv, you all dont go to the cinemas, you all bow down to your parents daily, i mean cuz you guys sound so religous - "oh this is not a authorized vedic scripture, i should know i read them all day, oh he is not god, cuz i am so religous"

 

this is all cuz of ego. no one is denouncing any god so don't start and compare beacuse you wont get anything out of it.

 

 

 

Can you explain why your Scripture says to Worship Krishna, and Lord Swami Narayana said to, yet you say Swami Naryana is higher or better than Krishna?

 

I am so bored, you can never answer any questions. I am outta here. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Guest guest]

 

"Can you explain why your Scripture says to Worship Krishna, and Lord Swami Narayana said to, yet you say Swami Naryana is higher or better than Krishna?

 

I am so bored, you can never answer any questions. I am outta here."

 

Why do you keep ignoring the posts which answer your question.

 

He could not openly say that he was God at the time. He had to use Krishna instead. HE SAID THAT HE WAS SUPREME IN THE SCRIPTURE AS WELL. THAT IS THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION. ON many occasions he says he is the one who is supreme, and he says Akshardham is above Golok. Yes please leave as you are a very frustrating character.

[Guest guest]

I am god , he is god and so is he.

 

It's all bogus non-sense.

 

"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear." (Lord Krishna BG 18.66)

 

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

You see your ignorance is amazing, here in your Siksakpatam Book, it says to worship Krishna, then you say Swami Narayana never really meant we should worship Krishna, He just USED Krishna as bait. I never heard such ignorance in all my life. Can you not see?

[Guest guest]

Jai shree krishna.

 

I agree, these BAPS followers are simply living in darkness, their abode is above Akshardam, hell.

 

[Guest guest]

i agree. All swaminarayan followers are living in darkness. They are living in ignorance.

 

In fact, the whole world is living in ignorance, in the cloud of maya. Only person on Earth transcending maya is Pramukh Swami Maharaj. The quicker you understand that, the better. Without any more waffle, if only you could meet Him. He has convinced people who have merely had his darshan. He has convinced the 4 most powerful Muslims in India. They said "he is the closest thing to Allah on Earth." Obviously we know Allah is bogus. You see, no Swaminarayan has ever uttered anything bad about Krishna. But you continuously badmouth Pramukh Swami and Swaminarayan.

 

Imagine how insulted Swaminarayans are when they see their Guru, who they believe has come down from Akshardham, and their Bhagwan insulted like this. Oh well, at least more and more people are realising the truth at the rate at which people are converting to Swaminarayan. Not forcefully of course. Fastest growing Hindu sect in the world. No false Guru can do that.

 

I am not concerned with numbers, dont get me wrong. Also, can someone explain how the Gita is eternal..

[Guest guest]

Jai shree krishna.

 

First of all, we have not insulted swaminarayan. Only bogus Gurus who do not follow the authorized scriptures.

 

It's you who are insulting swaminaryan by not following his instructions.

 

The fatest religion is ISLAM, does this mean it's the truth? Obviouly only one of them would think so.

 

The Gita is eternal as it's always existed. It was first spoken by Lord Krishna to Vivaswan about 120 million years ago and last on this planet 5000 years ago. It's being spoken right now in another Universe.

 

Your ignorance is incredible. You cannot call yourself a Hindu nor an Indian. The Gita is the scripture of India, period. In 99% of the Hindu temples there is Krishna, but in less than 1% is swaminaryan. You next birth will be in another religion as you have wasted this Hindu birth not following Hindu scriptures.

 

[Guest guest]

120 million years is not eternal. it is 120 million years. in another 120 million years, swaminarayans words will be 'eternal.' Anyway, fair enough, you will never convince me, but thats the point of a discussion. I know you think i am completely wrong and whatnot, but i think im completely right, as do 1 million other people in the world.

 

1 last message to leave you with, whatever u think of swaminarayans and anything else we have mentioned, just do research on Pramukh Swami before you call him bogus. You dont know the first thing about him. By calling him bogus you are calling God bogus, just find things out first. And he has never once told people to worship him like some other truly bogus people out there.

 

Good Night. You will never change your beliefs. Im not asking you to do that. And its probably good that you wont. Just find out more about what your saying first. You knowledge of Pramukh Swami is currently shocking.

 

Good Night

Jai Shree Krishna

[Guest guest]

" just do research on Pramukh Swami before you call him bogus. "

 

ok...

 

"By calling him bogus you are calling God bogus"

 

research done.....

 

this swami is a bogus swami because he is not master (swami) of his senses wanting to be called god

 

and he' s a bogus god because he's not god...

 

thanks for helping me in the research

[Guest guest]

GO - GOVINDA, GO - GOVINDA, GO - GOVINDA! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

I like the though of GOVINDA walkin around, tendin to the cows and playin his flute in the night and keepin everyone awake. Then strokin a deer and eating sumptuous foods /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

thats all.

 

Jaya Shri Ramacandra Bhagavan /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

Hello my boys!

 

If Swaminarayan is fake god then he would not have existed this long on earth as god...there was a fake Vasudev Krishna during Lord Krishna's time....how long he existed? ...

 

God Swaminarayan was Lord Krishna Himself. One cannot understand Bhagvad-Gita by simply reading it you may need some elaboration from saint like Shrila Prabhupad...then you can only understnad Gita fully..

 

same way you can not understand Sikhapatri by simply reading it....you need to read elaboration on sikshapari...a book names shikshaptribhashya written by satanand muni....sikhshapatri bhasya clearly states swaminarayan as an incarnation of lord krishna.....

 

If you have read Bhagvad-Gita then you should not have any jealousy toward swaminarayan sampraday....swaminarayan sampraday is spreading in the world more rapidly then any other sampraday in the world....

 

There will be "Swaminarayan" name on each and every leaf... people like you will die of jealousy....

 

Jay Shree Krishna.... Jay Shree Swaminarayan.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

regarding your message about BAPS, Pramukh Swami, and Krishna; I can tell you that I am familiar with ISKCON and its movement, with BAPS as well as the older Swaminarayan sampradaya, and have studies Vachanamrut, Shikshapatri (with commentary by Shatanand swami), and Gita (with NUMEROUS commentaries...not just Prabhupada), as well as various Puranas and other vedic litteratures. I do not claim to be a vedic scholar, but I am just trying to say that what I am about to write does not come without thought and deliberation and study as well as talking to leaders in Various religious sects.

 

It is absolutely UNDISPUTABLE, that there is NO OTHER SUPREME REALITY, purna purshottam narayan (in BAPS terms) than Lord Shri Krishna. THis has been conclusively proved numerous times. If you need proof of this, we will be happy to provide numerous references to this. Lord Swaminarayan Himself states the same thing; Shikshapatri starts and ends with Krishna; numerous Vachanamruts state the same thing that Purushottam Narayan is Krishna. Additionally, the Akshardham that BAPS advocates is none other than Golak, as Maharaj Himself states in Amdavad 6 as well as shikshapatri.

 

Now, it is true that Maharaj states that he is Purushottam. But NOWHERE, and I repeat, N-O-W-H-E-R-E, does Maharaj state that he is the cause of Shri Krishna; nowhere does Maharaj state that worship Him alone and not Krsna; no where does Maharaj state that followers of Krishna will go to Narak while His followers will not.

 

Maharaj has stated that that Shri Krishna, has descended on this earth, as an AVATAR, to uplift humanity (Gadhada II 19). If you read the Vachanamrut with thought and intelligence, you will realize that while Maharaj states that he is Purushottam, he is also stating that he is incarnate form of Shri Krishna.

 

Now, what I dont like about BAPS: I have talked with numerous "advanced" BAPS devotees, who state that you will ONLY get liberation if you follow Swaminarayan Maharaj - clearly, as stated above, this is false; BAPS states that you will ONLY get liberation if you follow Swaminarayan bhagavan AND Pramukh Swami - clearly this is false - to get liberation, one MUST follow a God and a God-realized sant, out of several of whom Pramukh Swami is one. But to say that there is ONLY one sant in the whole world that can grant you liberation cannot be. I also urge you to read Gadhada II 19, where it is said "Only the form of God should be concentrated upon in meditation. Excepting him, no demi–Gods or even a Guru who has attained perfection, should be meditated upon".

 

I am not blashpheming BAPS or Lord Swaminarayan; but I dont like it when BAPS devotees blaspheme ISKCON or other sampradayas. Just yesterday at the BAPS temple, it was said that Swaminarayans are different from Vaishnavs; now lets see - Maharaj's ishtadev was Krishna; Maharaj has asked us to worship Krishna; every (and I mean EVERY) BAPS sunday satsang or Shibir that I have been to ALWAYS includes talks of Vaishnav literatures, such as Gita, Bhagawat Purana, etc, so to say that you are not Vaishnav and at the same time uphold Vaishnav ideals just cannbot be.

 

Pramukh Swami IS NOT GOD; let me repeat - even according to BAPS beliefs, Pramukh Swami is NOT GOD; yet, you worship him as God, without officially saying so. Several "advanced" BAPS devotees have told me his is God; NOT so.

 

Now dont get me wrong - I am NOT blashpheming Pramukh Swami; I really do believe that he is a satpurush, a God realized sant. But I am sick and tired of the same flattery of him - that if he wasnt God, then how could he build all these temples? Well my dear friend, Srila Prabhupada built NUMEROUS temples starting WITHOUT A SINGLE PENNY; Every time I visit a BAPS temple, I am asked for $$; when I visited with Pramukh Swami, he asked me to donate; this is not bad, but to say that he is God because he builds so many temples or has so many devotees or has so many sants is a ridiculous excuse.

 

SO to all fellow devotees, I bid Hare Krishna, Jai Swaminarayan, and pray for increased understanding through scriptures that have already been presented to us, rather than making our own meaning from the scriptures.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna.

 

I totally agree that Lord Krishna is the supreme.

 

Could you please give me quotes from various scriptures to prove this, especailly from Swaminarayan scriptures.

 

No matter what the scriptures state, these BAPS followers will totally ignore them as they are in total darkness. They keep mocking Lord Krishna, all I can say is their abode will be hell.

[Nit]

when i was reading this forum i started laughing...i am a swaminarayan believer. i myself believe the krishna is param-brahman who says hes not. But also swaminarayan is an avatar of krishna, so therfore when he said to pray to krishna we are praying to krishna becuase swaminarayan is another name for krishna,saying ram and krishna are 2 different people is foolish. Also of course swaminarayan is an incarnation of god....some people say hes avatar wasn't predicted in the vedas. he was born to free soul(Moksha).they were cursed by sage durvas and to liberate the people NarNarayan(Arjun and Krsna) dev was also present at da time. Krishna(NarNarayan) said himself that i will be born on earth to salvate souls....therefore this proves hes a form of god and not just a swami. like lord caitanya he also took a from of a devotee.

Krishna is the supreme one though. we are also abiding to swami-narayans rules...he said pray to krishna and chant hes name, and we do chant hes name-"Swami-Narayan" is another one of hes name just like ram,buddh,vishnu,narayan is. pramukh Swami is not god.and anyway who are you to say this person is not god or that person is not god.....just worship who ever you want too. I am a swaminarayan but not a BAP shree swaminarayan our head guru is acharaya mahraj shree......who ever said only believing swaminaryan bhagwan will get you moksh is false....believeing in "GOD" will get you moksha weather that is swaminarayan,ram, or krishna the name is the same.

 

Also somewhere in this forum i saw someone write that you might aswel eat meat and believe in krishna instead of not eating meat and believeing in swaminarayan...thats what he basically said....what kind of idiot person says that.

 

E.G a person murders someone and gets punished for it....if a police officer done the same crime will he not get punished.....

instead that officer will be punished even more becuase he knew the law still he commited the crime.

 

jai shree krishna. jai swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

Whilst reading the first comment on this page and section, i stopped after reading that Lord Swaminarayan is said to have had 2 million or something followers, and sages.

The amount of followers does not indicate that a certain person is correct, all of the time. Lord Krishna is satisfied with each and every one of His loving, serving devotees. He sees them as individuals, and we should regard ourselves as being part and parcel, but separate from the whole.

So, by merely lumping people together into a number, shows that perhaps each individual is not looked at individually... i don't know.

Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He has stated this many times, in countless situations, and Srila Prabhupada has confirmed this. That is all I need to know

[Guest guest]

"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear." (Lord Krishna BG 18.66)

 

First and foremost - the Bhagavad Gita appeared at the dawn of the Kali Yuga. The Srimad Bhagavatam followed soon after.

 

This was clearly set out by Lord Krsna - The Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

Many times in the Gita it is mentioned to surrender ONLY to HIM - KRSNA! THEREFORE IT IS THE ONLY PRESCRIBED, APPROPRIATE AND AUTHORISED ACTION FOR PEOPLE IN THIS PARTICULAR AGE (OF KALI) TO GO BACK HOME - BACK TO GODHEAD (THERE IS NO OTHER WAY)!

 

This makes logical sense since in the Kali Yuga deception, hypocrysy, malign behaviour and other inauspicious symptoms will manifest and in many different areas of life including Dharma itself (the upholder of virtue).

 

Since this is the case then it is obvious to see that we must find the Source of Truth and adhere to it once it is found - any doubt about that Truth must undergo severe scrutiny before it is accepted -this is something that Srila Prabhudas has managed to in The Science of Self Realisation and The Laws of Nature with him quoting directly from authorised scriptures.

 

SWAMINARAYAN IS NOT KRSNA therefore you cannot pray to Swaminaryan as being the Supreme Personality of Godhead nor can you accept him as the Supreme Truth.

 

Nor is Akshardham or Akshar ever mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita or Srimad Bhagavatam so I challenge the existence of either of these 2 notions.

 

Besides which Lord Krsna clearly states in the Srimad Bhagavatam that one should aim for love for Me exclusively and disregard aiming for the cultivating of 'Asanas' -i.e. other subsidiery yogic powers.

 

If you look at the core essence and teachings of Swaminarayanism you will notice that there is a big 50/50 risk of falsity and untruth at its very centre since there is no real teaching of how to love Krsna more and more (Krsna can't be found - only Akshar and Akshardham - because that is what Swaminarayan's aim for).

 

The philosophy does not hold its integrity against any other parts of the Sanatana Dharma because it incorporates concepts and ideas (that work on a very subtle level) that have little or no connection with Krsna consciousness and have not been admitted in any authorised Sanatana Dharma scripture.

 

The one thing that saves a lot of people in the Swaminarayan sect is the fact that the word 'Narayana' is being used in 'Swaminarayan'. (Just like in the story of Ajamila -using the name 'Hari').

 

The other thing is why is the Swaminarayan sect split into factions? There are about 4 or 5 different sects with BAPS being one of the prominent. A true Vaisnava Sampradaya

cannot be split like this -it shows lack of cohesion, understanding, knowledge, consistency and brotherhood.

 

When you Swaminarayan worshippers pray what do you pray to and what do you feel? When you pray do you have doubts that you are praying in the right way and you are praying to The Supreme Personality of Godhead? Or do you feel a tinge of uncertainty that you may be praying to a human?

 

When you pray to Krsna or Ram Bhagavan it feels like unconditionally you are praying to The Supreme Personality of Godhead without any tinge of doubt in the mind -that is conclusive and therefore you attain blisssful peace!

 

If you have a real love and respect for God and sincere humility in your heart of hearts you will aim to adhere to His instruction and HIS instruction ONLY so you can go back home- BACK TO GODHEAD.

[Guest guest]

"SWAMINARAYAN IS NOT KRSNA " ---------------- how can you say that.......becuase the birth of swaminarayan was said by narnarayan dev (krsn and arjun) krishna said himself ill reincarnate my self to salvate souls. When the Rishi was predicting swainrayans janam -kundli why did he give him the names hari,krishna and hari-krishna and who are you to say he is not god? just go pray who you beleieve. the question on the sects.....the orignal swaminarayan sect is headed by Tejendraprasadji Maharajshri acharya shree the rest are unofficial and have rooted from the original one so they are the fake ones.......Tejendraprasadji Maharajshri is an decendant of swaminarayans.And what do you mean swaminarayan doesn't teach you a way to love krsna more and more......you dont know nothing about our sampraday and you are just commenting like you know everything your the one who is ignorant..if one doesn't have the full knowledge then why shall one comment?

swaminarayan isnt the supreme-personality krishna is but it doesn't mean swaminaryan is not an incarnation of krishna.

 

just pray to who you think is god.....do not comment on something your not clear about.

 

Essense of Shikshapatri :

 

 

 

 

"Identify

oneself with Brahman,

separate from the three bodies,

and eternally offer devotion to God."

Shloka: 116

 

Read this shikshapatri written by lord swaminaryan and tell me if he doesn't preach love for krishna......

 

and also swaminaryan holds apart of the vedic scriptures he says that in this shikshapatri:

 

"I hold the tenth and fifth canto of Bhagavad Puran ad Bhakti shastra and Yoga shastra respectively and the Yagnyavalkya Smriti as Dharma Shastra."(99)

 

And through the hold teaching in shikshapatri it tells us ways of praying to Lord Krishna so please dont say he doesnt teach us how to love krishna more and more.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Swaminarayan

 

im really (nit) but im not logged in

 

[Guest guest]

Jai shree Krishna.

 

There are 4 swaminaryan movements and the biggest and most ignorant of Lord Krishna is the BAPS movement. They have no respect for Lord Krishna nor the Bhagavad-gita.

 

The original swmainarayn movment followers have great respect for Lord Krishna. Thus not all the swmainarayan followers are in ignorance of Lord krishna.

 

Pramukh Swmami is the head of BAPS, his followers are in total ignorance of Lord Krishna. They are all going to hell.

 

There are 3 different followers of Swaminarayan:

 

1. Those who think Swminarayan is the supreme and not Krishna. This is BAPS.

2. Those who think swaminarayan is an incarnation of Krishna.

3. Those who think swamiarayan is a Guru and not God. This is the teachings of the orginal swaminarayan movement.

[Guest guest]

Does any of the Swaminrayan people have anything intelligent to say against the above post headed '24 carat fools gold' or are they going to continue to provide watered down Vimto type arguments and avoid the real issues.

 

In that post quite a lot of strong points are made against your own faith. If you can't defend that with poignant statements and references to AUTHORISED scriptures then reconsider the value of your faith and redirect your faith towards Ram and Krsna Bhagavan -the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This will then conclude this whole string.