Can you worship other Gods, besides Lord Krishna!

[Guest guest]

I never said Vishnu is 'inferior' to Krishna. You have a very good skill of misinterpretation. Since the beginning you are claiming that Krishna is an avataar of Vishnu, just like Kurma, Vaaman or Lord Rama. I am only refuting this point based on scriptures. Krishna has no source of origin. He is the source of all. He is the source of Sankarshana, Pradyumna, Aniruddh and Maha-Vishnu. Hence Maha Vishnu is a planary expansion of Krishna, and this is evident from the scriptures. Krishna is full in 64 qualities.

 

But ALL these 64 qualities are not present in any of his tattvas.Sankarshana, Pradyumna, Aniruddh, Maha-Vishnu, and for that matter even Brahman and Parmatma form of Lord .. none has all 64 qualities in full, some tattvas possess 58 and some other only 60 qualities. All 64 qualities are present only in Krishna. Therefore saying that Krishna is an avataar of Vishnu (in other words Krishna comes from Vishnu) is incorrect. Vishnu comes from Krishna.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna

 

 

we shud totally focus on Lord Vishnu as authorized by Vaisnava acaaryas

 

Srila Prabupada said that we should respect Demigods but should not ask any Material benefits from them.

We Can ask their Blessings from Lord Shiva, Lord Brahma and Maha Maya devi so that we can follow their devotional attitude towards Lord Narayana

Hare Krishna

[oshosannyasin]

I think it is ok to worship Ganesha for the simple reason that the krishna.com store sells a Ganesha statue, which they wouldn't do if worshipping him was not allowed.

[Guest guest]

How about just realising that your gods are projections of your thought.

They are not real except in your imagination, but that is ok if it makes you feel good, I guess.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

niab can I ask you a question, you are Muslim?

 

In Qu'ran it is stated that God has a form [His hands].

 

It also mentions and your Islam says that you will attain Paradise

for all Eternity. Where you shall have a body. Now how do you conclude

God is NOT Personal? If you say you shall also have a Form?

 

If it is stated in your Holy Book, then can you deny it? If you shall say God Impersonal aspect is Supreme, then can you deny that God cannot have an Eternal form?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

CC Madhya 18.191: "According to the Koran, the Lord has a supreme, blissful, transcendental body. He is the Absolute Truth, the all-pervading, omniscient and eternal being. He is the origin of everything.

http://caitanyacaritamrta.com/madhya/18/en1

[tarakananda]

Friends,

 

Forgive a comment from a non-Gaudiya devotee, but it seems to me that that some of the views of Krishna posted here are limiting, and also partake of some of the limitations of Western views of God, i.e. that he is a Hindu version of the "old man on the throne" type of jealous God who is more prone to condemn than to help those who approach Him amiss. Though I have great respect for the devotion and scholarship of Gaudiya devotees, I sometimes worry that strong sectarianism threatens to smother the finer aspects of heartfelt devotion to the Lord.

 

I do no not mean for my opinion to offend.

[Logical]

It is indicative that God/Ist and last avtar, are better worshiped and followed in view of current status and need of time for maintainance purpose. However, all are respectable.

[Guest guest]

Yes!! This is important to know that Lord Vishu instructed the imperishable science of YOGA in the past too.

Did you got in structed in the science of yoga is the question!

And Krishna gives this science of Kriya kundalini yoga to Arjuna!

We know that Prabhupada never gave the science of dhyana meditation on the agya chakra as did Krishna to Arjuna!!

So what is the argument about???

Prabhupada instead just summed it up as KC !!

No Pranayama, no meditation, no higher Kriya. Nothing. Just Shravan, Kirtana, Manana!! Still good!

Know why?? Because that science is for much more advanced people.

The science of Kriya Yoga, Kundalini Tantra and Samadhi after opening up all the chakraas is plainly not an ordinary thing!! And it is certainely not a thing to be accomplished by ordinary mundane effort. Nor there are many Gurus capable of making that possible for his disciple.

Arjuna says, what if that is difficult and an ordinary person cannpt do that.

Then Krishna says, then a simpler way is to just think about me and offer all your activities to me, live righteous life. Be a good boy!

And with time you will also come to me. So at least this much we can do and should do!!

 

Hare Krsna !!

 

 

 

"Yes. Evidences:---

 

BG 4.1

The Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Ikṣvāku.

 

It is clear from the above verse that, Lord Krishna instructed the same science 120,400,000 years ago to Sun God."

 

 

".....kindly shut up"

[Guest guest]

 

Hare Krishna.

 

All Hindus should follow the Vedic scriptures, of which the Bhagaavd-gita is the supreme scripture.

 

 

Lol, except you know all of the Vedas, Arayanakas, Brahmanas and Upanishads which are all "revealed" scripture and the Gita is not!

[Guest guest]

 

Hare Krishna.

 

One should follow the authorized scriptures. The Bhagavad-gita is the essence of all scriptures.

 

“Whatever a man sacrifices to other gods, O son of Kunti, is really meant for me alone, but it is offered without true understanding. I am the only enjoyer and the only object of sacrifice. Those who do not recognize my true transcendental nature fall down.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 9.23)

 

Lord Krishna says only worship him, so why would anyone want to be stupid enough to disobey him?

That is a very hardcore view. Who are you to call people stupid you idiot?

[Guest guest]

 

Vishnu and all this avatars, including Krishna, are one. How then can Vishnu be inferior to His avatars or vice versa? It is impossible. So to say that KRishna is superior to Vishnu is ridiculous because Krishna and Vishnu are one and the same. An entity cannot be superior to himself. Can you say, "I am taller than me?" Likewise, Krishna is not superior to Vishnu because He is Vishnu. Understand the basics first and then you can quote bogus verses from questionable sources.

Completely agree.

[Guest guest]

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

we shud totally focus on Lord Vishnu as authorized by Vaisnava acaaryas

 

Srila Prabupada said that we should respect Demigods but should not ask any Material benefits from them.

We should not ask for material benefits even from Krsna as we are given what we deserve by our Karma and good deeds. Knowing the knowledge of Prabhupada, why did he make such a errornous comment?

[Guest guest]

 

Friends,

 

Forgive a comment from a non-Gaudiya devotee, but it seems to me that that some of the views of Krishna posted here are limiting, and also partake of some of the limitations of Western views of God, i.e. that he is a Hindu version of the "old man on the throne" type of jealous God who is more prone to condemn than to help those who approach Him amiss. Though I have great respect for the devotion and scholarship of Gaudiya devotees, I sometimes worry that strong sectarianism threatens to smother the finer aspects of heartfelt devotion to the Lord.

 

I do no not mean for my opinion to offend.

I agree with you completely. As someone who has Sanatan Dharma at heart I get very worried by people who are willing to condemn people who do not share their belief as wrong. It is the wrong path to take.

[Eternal Law]

Krishna is Vishnu, Krishna is Shiva. You can worship any diety but with correct understanding.

 

If you will worship them as separate entity from Krishna (Brahman) , your way is wrong.

 

If you will worship them as part of Krishna (Brahman) which is not separate from Krishna ...you are right.

 

I can go even further, Even some Muslims (like suffis) follow Krishna and are completely devoted to Krishna because they follow formless aspect of Brahman. Krishna says those who worhip me as formless and with complete devotion are also right but their path is difficult than those who will worship me in this personal form.

 

Is there anyone here who remember that legend story of Vrindavan where Krishna as a child came out from Banke Bihari temple to give darshan to his Muslim Suffi devotee because he was not allowed to enter in that temple by temple preists? Even today, grave of that Suffi exists in Vrindavan and people visit it to give respect.

[Guest guest]

Dear Original Poster

 

Hare Krishna!

 

All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I offer my humble obeisance unto him!

 

I think we are all forgetting something.....what is it?

 

There is no SIN or WRONG worshipping DEMIGODS like Ganesh, Karthikeya etc. But, the only BIG NO NO is to worship them thinking they are the SUPREME GOD. That is BLASPHEMOUS. In other words, the scriptures say, Krishna is the SUPREME PERSONALITY.

 

But, if we still, based on our MODES OF EXISTANCE choose to worship demigods, it is OK, but it is not correct if we worship the demigods as SUPREME GOD, then it is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE, however, if we worship them for material needs, it is ok, although, the GITA clearly states that, the power to demigods is given by KRISHNA ONLY.

 

So, if we look, YES, Krishna has to be worshipped for material and spiritual needs. But, not all people are the same in the same mode of goodness and we have to understand that. Therefore, it is ok to worship demigods but just please dont ASSUME or CONSIDER DEMIGOD as SUPREME as KRISHNA is the ONLY SUPREME.

 

Haribol!

 

anand

[Guest guest]

 

Dear Original Poster

 

Hare Krishna!

 

There is no SIN or WRONG worshipping DEMIGODS like Ganesh, Karthikeya etc. But, the only BIG NO NO is to worship them thinking they are the SUPREME GOD. That is BLASPHEMOUS. In other words, the scriptures say, Krishna is the SUPREME PERSONALITY.

 

Haribol!

 

anand

Nonsense. There are slokas from purans, Smritis and smrutis which talk about Shiva, Ganesh, Vishnu and other devtas as being supreme. It is not BLASPHEMOUS as long as you hold faith in god by which ever name you name him/her.

 

 

But, if we still, based on our MODES OF EXISTANCE choose to worship demigods, it is OK, but it is not correct if we worship the demigods as SUPREME GOD, then it is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE, however, if we worship them for material needs, it is ok, although, the GITA clearly states that, the power to demigods is given by KRISHNA ONLY.

 

anand

Thats if one believes that Krsna is supreme. What if one was to believe the Shiva was supreme. Are you saying that there belief is unaaceptable? Shaivites will never believe Visnu to be supreme so why insult their beliefs by saying their belief is unacceptable? You sound like a fanatic on a high horse. A bit like those mullahs outside of Finsbury Park mosque.

 

You people are dividing the Hindu community rather than bringing unity.

 

 

So, if we look, YES, Krishna has to be worshipped for material and spiritual needs. But, not all people are the same in the same mode of goodness and we have to understand that. Therefore, it is ok to worship demigods but just please dont ASSUME or CONSIDER DEMIGOD as SUPREME as KRISHNA is the ONLY SUPREME.

 

anand

Why does he have to be worshipped for material gain? That is destined to us through Karma. What is the need to show greed to Krsna by asking for material gain? How do you know not all people are the same in the mode of goodness? Your definition of goodness may be different from mine so what do we have to understand? Your understanding of Karma is flawed if you believe that asking for material gain is a neccesity.

 

I am a Vaishnav and believe in Krsna as being supreme but I hold Shiva as an equal to Krsna. Without one there cannot be the other and both are forever eternal. But that dont mean I will insult Shaivites or Shaktas for their beliefs. That would be most un-hindu like.

[Eternal Law]

One who will Insult Har or will create divisions between Har and Hari, will never get Hari because Har is Hari and Hari is Har.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna!

 

All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I offer my humble obeisance unto him!

 

People....(who posted after me) get emotional and say things. I would like to see quotes from the Smritis, and Shrutis that state demigods as Supreme.

 

Please dont take my words out of context. I was trying to say that people have different needs in life and not all of them want to talk about liberation. Many people go to God when they have material distress and seek His help. There is nothing wrong. So people with material needs have to approach Krishna as Krishna says in the Gita that He is the Supreme and He priovides power to demigods (although i dont remember the exact verse).

 

We can have faith in different people and different entitites, there is nothing wrong but all iam saying is based on the Gita and the Srimad Bhagavatam and the Vedanta Sutras, Krishna is established as the Supreme. This has also been clearly stated by Adi Shankaracharaya, incarnation of Lord Siva who is one of the greatest saints on this planet. He was an Advaiti and he propogated Monism all this life. But, still, befoere departing, he sang the Bhaja Govindam song to show people that GOVINDA is the source of everything and BHAKTI is the real KNOWLEDGE. This is one example i mention here.

 

Having faith in many gods and considering them supreme is the most blasphemous thing one can do. I am sorry to break your HONEYMOON ON YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS HINDUISM, but the truth per the scriptures is that KRISHNA is the Supreme and there is no doubt about it. How can there be 2 kings for a country; how can there be 2 prime-ministers and 2 presidents. There can only be 1 president and 1 prime-minister, one father and one mother and it is our DUTY to give respect to all of them per their position and not treat them differently. Out of love you may say or see your brother as the head of household, but it is a dis-respect to your father if you give first rights to your brother when your father is alive in the same house. Similarly, demigods have their positions but KRISHNA is the Supreme, as Brahma Samhita clearly states

 

Chapter 5, text 1

 

Ishvaraha Paramaha Krishna, Saccida ananda Vigraha,

anadir aadir Govindah, Sarva Karana Karnaam

 

meaning: Govinda who is the primeval lord is full of eternal knowledge and bliss. He is the Supreme personaliy of Godhead and the cause of all causes.

 

Another sloka from the Srimad Bhagavatam (4.31.14)

 

yatha taror mula-nisecanena

trpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopasakhah

pranopaharac ca yathendriyanam

tathaiva sarvarhanam acyutejya

 

"By properly watering the root of a tree, its trunk, branches, twigs,

leaves, flowers and so forth all become nourished, just as by eating

food the life air and the senses become nourished. In the same way, by

worshipping Bhagavan Krishna everyone, including all the Devatas, are

worshipped."

 

 

There are many quotes similar to this and you can find that in the beginning of the thread (posted by different posters).

 

I am sorry to be rude or blatant but if we do not speculate and follow those words exactly, then the truth will be established which is KRISHNA is the SUPREME, then how can one say "It is not BLASPHEMOUS as long as you hold faith in god by which every name you name him/her". Does the above sloka and many others like this state it is ok to use any name instead of Govinda. I do not think it is correct to interpret the scriptures the way we want and think it is correct.

 

I am not being a fanatic or close-minded but simply following the texts written in the scriptures and give respect to everyone, part of respecting them is to look everyone from their actual position and not percieve an apple for an orange. Below is a quote from the Brahma Samhita that talks about Lord Krishna and Siva.

 

Brahma Samhita chapter 5 TEXT 45

 

ksiram yatha dadhi vikara-visesa-yogat

sanjayate na hi tatah prthag asti hetoh

yah sambhutam api tatha samupaiti karyad

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

 

meaning: Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Sambhu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction.

 

We may have come frome varied backgrounds, that is ok but when we look at literature (any literature) we have to be 100% objective. This is how we can learn. Coming from a Hindu upbringing and all of a sudden someone comes and says only Krishna is the Supreme may seem unsettling, but if we spend some time researching the scriptures, and accept authority as it is, we will see that KRISHNA is the established SUPREME.

 

I have objectively placed before the forum posters the verses i considered for this debate and the sources i took have been mentioned.

 

I am not here to be rude but just to state my position using texts similar to the above.

 

Again, iam not disrespecting any demigod as i respect all to my heart but all iam saying is only Krishna is the Supreme and none other. This is my take on this.

 

Haribol!

 

anand

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

to the first poster: If you want Krishna, worship Krishna exclusively, pay due respect to the other gods but do not worship them. For example: If I want food I don't go to a clothing store. Similarly, if I want Krishna,I worship Krishna and I don't go worshipping Lord Shiva, that would be like a third wheel, it makes no sense unless you have some ulterior motive. If you feel more strongly connected to Sri Ganesh than to Krishna then you cannot expect to worship Krishna properly.

 

There is a story in the scriptures which tells of a ghost, who, upon hearing the Baghavatam became instantly liberated and promoted to Vaikuntha. Other sages that were present were astonished and asked why the ghost got liberated and taken to Vaikuntha but they were not. The answer was that the ghost had been listening with all his attention and the sages did not. They heard, but they did not really listen.

 

So you have to fully submit yourself to Krishna if you really want Him. Let go of all this pointless bickering using quotes and counterquotes to try to establish who is the Supreme, that is not Bhakti, that is simply Kali yuga in full effect. You have to be simplehearted. People are so confused nowadays. Only Krishna is full in all 64 opulences, only Krishna can display the topmost rasa, madhurya rasa. His manifestation as Shiva cannot give this, His manifestation as Narayan cannot give this, His manifestation as Vishnu cannot give this. Krishna is the Adi purusham, the Original Person from which everything else emanates. This is the logical conclusion to all scriptures. Surrender fully to Sri Guru and try to follow in his footsteps. Have faith in him and his words and develop one-pointed exlusive devotion. All are not equal in the sense that yoghurt is not equal to milk even though it is essentialy the same product. Krishna is like the point at the center of a circle. Remember, only Krishna can give you Krishna prema.

 

Haribol!

[akshar]

Of course you can worship other gods. There are gods who are supreme besides krishna bhagwan. I sorship swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

Islam says there is no god other than Allah

Hinduism says there are thousands of gods but none superior than Krsna though Shaivaites disagree

Christians say Jesus is the only saviour

 

How do we decide?Is it like Majority wins or you can just choose whatever you want?

[Guest guest]

 

One who will Insult Har or will create divisions between Har and Hari, will never get Hari because Har is Hari and Hari is Har.

 

 

How do you know this?There was no English language during those days so your saying doesnt seem to prove Hari Har concept?Did you see first hand both Hari and Har or you are their messenger?What authority do you have to make statements like this?

[Shivam]

 

Hare Krishna,

 

to the first poster: If you want Krishna, worship Krishna exclusively, pay due respect to the other gods but do not worship them. For example: If I want food I don't go to a clothing store. Similarly, if I want Krishna,I worship Krishna and I don't go worshipping Lord Shiva, that would be like a third wheel, it makes no sense unless you have some ulterior motive. If you feel more strongly connected to Sri Ganesh than to Krishna then you cannot expect to worship Krishna properly.

 

There is a story in the scriptures which tells of a ghost, who, upon hearing the Baghavatam became instantly liberated and promoted to Vaikuntha. Other sages that were present were astonished and asked why the ghost got liberated and taken to Vaikuntha but they were not. The answer was that the ghost had been listening with all his attention and the sages did not. They heard, but they did not really listen.

 

So you have to fully submit yourself to Krishna if you really want Him. Let go of all this pointless bickering using quotes and counterquotes to try to establish who is the Supreme, that is not Bhakti, that is simply Kali yuga in full effect. You have to be simplehearted. People are so confused nowadays. Only Krishna is full in all 64 opulences, only Krishna can display the topmost rasa, madhurya rasa. His manifestation as Shiva cannot give this, His manifestation as Narayan cannot give this, His manifestation as Vishnu cannot give this. Krishna is the Adi purusham, the Original Person from which everything else emanates. This is the logical conclusion to all scriptures. Surrender fully to Sri Guru and try to follow in his footsteps. Have faith in him and his words and develop one-pointed exlusive devotion. All are not equal in the sense that yoghurt is not equal to milk even though it is essentialy the same product. Krishna is like the point at the center of a circle. Remember, only Krishna can give you Krishna prema.

 

Haribol!

 

Prabhuji, it is said that in the abode of Lord Visnu(Krishna)'s heart is Lord Siva [and Vice-versa]. If one prays to Lord Siva does this not boost him to Maha-Visnu through association with the Greatest Vaisnava?

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

If Vishnu is supreme then why did Arjuna pray and penance on Lord Siva for the Pashupathaastra?