Is the Koran derived from Manu Samhita?

[valaya]

Originally posted by jndas:

You are confused as to the purpose of Krishna's pastimes. He does not descend for any mundane reason such as stopping "cruel and unusual punishment". He Himself, as a king, ruled according to Manu's law and gave out direct punishment to many people.

 

What is the purpose of Lord Krishna's descent? The Bhagavatam states it is to reclaim the lost conditioned souls.

 

Any other mundane purpose which we attribute to His divine descent is just our own inability to differentiate between the divine and material natures.

Firstly, it was Krsna's pastimes that were mentioned which does not necessarily refer to his descent(s) as avatara.

 

Secondly, His descents are `to restablish religious principles` (whose meaning and purpose continue to become twisted by human-beings in spite of various sampradayas, scriptures, gurus and sadhus), but mainly to please His devotees.

 

Thirdly, by contemplating the Goloka pastimes of Sri Sri Radha-Krsna one can become freed from material consciousness, or at least begin the process.

 

Finally, Krsna as Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu appeared in the mood of Srimati Radharani not to establish more principles of religion, but to transcend them, as does Radhika Herself by Her very nature.

 

 

This present Age of Kali is certainly rife with confusion. It is, after all the `age of quarrel and hypocrisy`...Still, great saintly personalities are most grateful that simply chanting the Lord's Holy Names can deliver each and every one of us in these the darkest of times.

 

All glories to that Krsna in the mood of Radha, who desires only to freely distribute Her ultimate form of purest Divine Love even to the least qualified.

 

JAYA NITAI-GAURA! JAI SRI RADHA!

 

------------------

Radhe Radhe always Radhe!

amanpeter@hotmail.com

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 01-15-2002).]

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by jndas:

What is the purpose of Lord Krishna's descent? The Bhagavatam states it is to reclaim the lost conditioned souls.

I have also heard some wonderful devotees mention that Lord Krishna incarnates, also for the purpose of fulfilling the desires of his devotees who want to associate with Him in this world. Some may associate as a potter, some as a mother, etc., but He is in no position to turn down their reuests.

 

I also agree with J NDas that Krishna need not incarnate to enforce dharma. He can do it from Goloka itself, if He wants.

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Lord Krishna appeared to deliver the pious (who were being persecuted by miscreat kings and rulers) and anniliate the miscreants...

Yes, which has nothing to do with cruel and unusual punishment. He anniliated the miscreant kings by cutting their heads off. Those kings felt the pain when their head was severed, and they screamed out when it happened. The fact that Lord Krishna still blessed them to attain moksha despite their crimes shows how Lord Krishna both punishes and delivers at the same time.

 

...as well as to establish eternal religious principals. Disciriminating between higher and lower caste persons is not an eternal religious principal.

Thank you for using those words, which in sanskrit would be sat-dharma. As I had mentioned begfore, sat-dharma is defined as the laws of Manu in the Srimad Bhagavatam: manvantarani sat-dharma.

 

You may not like something due to your modern politcal correctness, but why try to pass of your political correctness onto Lord Krishna?

 

As far as your statements regarding the "caste system", it is unfortunate that after so many years of studying Hinduism you still haven't got a clue about this, especially since Srila Prabhupada has explained this time and time again, and you were or are a follower of his.

 

 

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

Since we can reject Manu I suggest we also reject Veda Vyasa. Hell, I don't like the hells in the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam. Veda Vyasa Smeda Vyasa. In fact, I also don't care that much for the incarnation of Parasurama - Parasurama Parasmurama. And the Bhagavad Gita? It says that children who die do so because of their Karma. What? Bhagavad Gita Smagavad Gita. In fact anytime I don't 'feel' like accepting something, I'll just reject it. No drinking alcohol? What was Srila Prabhupada thinking? Srila Prabhupada Smila Prabhupada.

 

Gauracandra

Bhaktivinode Thakhur said that the 5th canto was fictious, meant for those people who could only change through fear. If you want to believe that people who drink alcohol go to a planet where hot metal is poured down their throats, fine.Or if a man embraces a woman he has to embrace a hot iron woman.

In the Mahabarata the Pandavas had a party where large quantities of liquour were consumed, and although I don't have a copy of the Mahabharata handy, I recall that the Pandavas drank up, but didn't get so drunk that they passed out and did the other guests.

And I don't personally worship or love the Parasurama incarnation. I do pick and choose and it's called taking the essence.

 

 

 

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by jndas:

Thank you for using those words, which in sanskrit would be sat-dharma. As I had mentioned begfore, sat-dharma is defined as the laws of Manu in the Srimad Bhagavatam: manvantarani sat-dharma.

 

You may not like something due to your modern politcal correctness, but why try to pass of your political correctness onto Lord Krishna?

 

As far as your statements regarding the "caste system", it is unfortunate that after so many years of studying Hinduism you still haven't got a clue about this, especially since Srila Prabhupada has explained this time and time again, and you were or are a follower of his.

 

 

Goes to show how much you know; Srila Prabhupada said often "we are not Hindus", and Sri Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda certainly did not promote the caste system, where someone is considered superior according to birth and higher caste.

 

 

[laksri]

Originally posted by Bhaktavasya:

where someone is considered superior according to birth and higher caste.

 

Let us be fair to scientists, come on after all they have 10000 nukes, let us give them some respect. Did scientists sweat, race and fight in the human genome project to understand cats better?

 

I don't believe religious dogmas which are based on birth. Why should things be like that ? God, unfortunately, human beings are by products of the instructions of genetic material. Manu knows what his kids will be, because he saw what he was. Honest guy.

 

Heh come on, science never differentiates. May be little bit used by moneyed ones in pre natal, A.Semination etc. But factory babies are on the way, man. They will laugh at people who laughed at Manu. The laugh goes on, till you reach the 5th chapter in SB.

 

Future is only a mirror, of WWII fought by "manu dumped world", killing more people and maiming and giving untold suffering to generations in a day, than what Manu could not achieve by laws in the history.

Brutal manu laws, are our own imangination of a warning. Remember small print statutory warnings will be mis understood as sold to semi blind people, in consonance with governments, to make $$. This will be the interpretation after couple of nukes are thrown around and archeologists look at de radiated packs of cigarates.

 

 

Anyhow, coming back, forget genes, that will take years and will be chained by restrictions by congress. Now inequality does not exist. Oh it will, inequality exists whether we like or not, that is karma, some are smart, some are good in sports, some are challenged. Soon, quotas will be increased to give jobs to everybody, when jobs become difficult in prolonged bad times.

 

Manu did not go that far, he did not consider such factors, he merely divided intellectual and teaching, physical and sacrificing, enterprising and skilled, unskilled and servicing in broad terms to stabilise the dispositions of human tendencies based on makeup.Distribution will be 5%, 15%, 50%, 30%. or similar. If the balance is not maintained, by 15% by adopting for the welfare of everybody, things will go bad or when things go out of control 15% will lose control, which the nature of kali yuga.

 

simply because pedestrian rules are not followed in populated centers, does it mean it is not there ? same way simply because it is not followed does not mean Manu samhita is not applicable. It is very much enforced by the laws of rebirth.

 

Now, Suppose you had born in situation where you accepted Manu Samhita in a previous yuga, Is there any meaning if you felt dejected today, about it. You would be even more confused if you knew that you will hate yourself later, for liking it earlier.

 

So I think the best way is not to hate yourself. Because it is self condradicting and hence self destructive. I think, the problem is hate of some laws, which is not enforceble, why because rule followers are miniscule. If you break a law you don't like a law, if your neighbour breaks a law you like the law ? Law exist, it is enforced especially, who ignore the law and krishna.

 

because it is difficult to follow the laws, better follow krishna. As you pointed out the essence is focus on krishna, rest is meaningless only then. I agree, but how many can be like you ? Give others the time and chance to appreciate.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by laksri (edited 01-18-2002).]

[Gauracandra]

"If it feels good do it" as the hippies used to say. So I feel like eating meat. Whats with this karma business? Karma Smarma. There is no consequence to my actions. And Caitanya says to chant Hare Krsna. But why chant Hare Krsna? Who is this Caitanya to tell ME how to get to God? Japa Smapa. But the essence is to focus on Krishna. Now the same scriptures that glorify Manu also glorify Krsna. We have already rejected this fella (Manu Smanu). So the scriptures say that Krsna danced on the head of a serpent named Kaliya. I don't know about this. I don't feel that I like this story so I'll reject it also. In fact lets just forget this scripture business. It doesn't have any relevance. Scripture Smripture. I want the essence not all this myth. So we have this Krsna character and he is supposed to be God. But how do I know he is God? Well the whole scripture thing just doesn't get my groove on. And I don't feel like God is really going to be blue. Why blue? I always like the color yellow. It feels better to me. And Krsna doesn't sound right to me either. Too eastern. I think a better name might be Fred. I feel this would be a nice name. Actually a yellow God named Fred sounded right a few minutes ago. But now it doesn't feel right. Actually maybe Jason would be a better name. Yeah Jason. Naah thats not working for me either. You know I think I've figured it out. This whole "God" thing just doesn't sit right with me. Why should there be one really big fella up there who is better than the rest of us. He is supposed to be smarter, more powerful, and richer than me. I don't much like that. In fact, I feel envious of this person. To hell with it - God Smod. Its all based on my feeling. Maybe tomorrow I'll feel different.

 

[This message has been edited by Gauracandra (edited 01-18-2002).]

[Sephiroth]

For example, the cutting off of bodily parts. In the Manu Samhita, a sudra can have his tongue cut out for speaking against a brahman, his hand cut off for striking a brahman.

 

I don't remember such laws in Manu Samhita. Someone mind fill me up?

 

And it seems that the view on women is the same in both the Manu Samhita and the Koran.

 

This is Nonsense. Muslims are stereotypical male-dorminant race which place women in lower rank than them.

 

In Hindusm, you can find great sages who were women, with their penance, had even control the sun, wind, moon etc and even shaken up Yama Dharma.

 

In Islam, there is NO women prophets and it is written that women cannot achieve such status, no matter how high they devote themselves to God. That position is strictly for men.

 

Also, in Islam, it is said that, since Eve was created from rib bones of Adam, it made her his servant and therefore, women are considered below men and their servant in life.

[maadhav]

<< being traders and travellers, incorporated various teachings and traditions into their culture. >>

 

islam is the killer/destroyer of the vedic culture.

it never follows anythihg else than koran and hadith.

 

manusmriti has never beeen followed as the law book of vedic kingdoms; koran/hadith is followed as the law book in muslim countries, even now.

 

hinduism has never produced imposers of hinduism or manu smriti.

 

by seeing you starting such as this thread,

it seems you are not a hindu but a hindu hater.