Who were the Aryans?

[Guest guest]

No false controversy can change things, the Aryan Race came from India and most Indians are pure Aryans. All this East-West, North-South differences do not exist.

[Guest guest]

Heilsa! I am Asatru, the indigenous religion of the Germanic nations.

 

I find this discussion fascinating. I had not heard of the "Indian Trading Empire" hypothesis before, whereby Indo-European myths and languages spread out from India along trade routes. I would like to hear more about this hypothesis if anyone is willing.

 

I think along these lines you all might be interested in the work of Viktor Rydberg, a Swede who in two volumes of Teutonic Mythology showed comparisons between the Germanic myths and Zoroastrian and Vedic beliefs.

 

If Vedism and Hinduism have something to contribute to European Indigenous movements, both Celtic and Germanic religion could use help as we are fledgling religions trying to regain our wings.

 

If anyone would be interested in dialoguing with me about this, contact me at lokislittletoy@

[Guest guest]

Lord Krishna was an Aryan. Most Indians in every corner of India belong to the Aryan Race. The Brilliany Dr. M.M. Joshi has had this now put in the Indian text-books:ernational | Opinion | Business | Sport | Miscellaneous |

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Front Page

 

'Index of errors' in history textbooks

 

By Anita Joshua

 

 

 

NEW DELHI JUNE 29. The Indian History Congress (IHC) feels that mere removal of linguistic and factual errors from the new history textbooks of the National Council of Education Research and Training (NCERT) would not convert them into acceptable learning tools for the students.

 

Six months after the IHC during its 63rd annual session in Amritsar decided to examine the history textbooks brought out over the past year, the committee appointed for the purpose has come out with a detailed 155-page "index of errors."

 

Approved by the IHC executive committee, it will soon be printed to serve as a "ready-reckoner for teachers and students.''

 

Four books — Makkhan Lal's "India and the World'' for Class VI and "Ancient India" for Class XI, Meenakshi Jain's "Medieval India" for Class XI, and Hari Om's "Contemporary India'' for Class IX — were put under the IHC scanner, and it was noted that they "uniformly suffer from similar defects.''

 

According to the report, " the language is poor with many spelling and grammatical errors, infelicitous expressions and obscurities, which is a primary error that any school textbook must avoid.''

 

While some errors were "mere products of ignorance,'' historians Irfan Habib, Suvira Jaiswal and Aditya Mukherjee — entrusted with the task of examining the books— were one in stating that many of the mistakes stem "from an anxiety to present history with a very strong chauvinistic and communal bias.''

 

In the text on ancient India, the effort, as per the report, has been to project India as the original home of the Aryans and the "Vedic civilisation" as the sole fountainhead of the Indian civilisation with the Vedic age being credited for "all substantive scientific discoveries from zero and decimal placement of numerals to heliocentric astronomy''; the Hindu religion as superior to other religions; and the caste system as having only `rigidities' and not inequities so much so that Dalits find no mention.

 

In the medieval text, the report found the focus to be on highlighting that "Muslims brought little new to India except oppression and temple-destruction.'' Further, the report states that "all dark corners are thoroughly presented in the narrative of medieval India while they are overlooked in that of ancient India,'' and the rise of a composite culture "ignored or downplayed.''

 

As for the modern India textbook, "Muslim separatism is the great bugbear while Hindi communalism is not even mentioned and the Hindu Mahasabha leaders appear uniformly as great patriots.'' Further, the growth of modern values of democracy, gender equality, secularism, welfare state, ... is "neglected or passed over in silence.''

 

Besides, "there is little or nothing on the Indian social reformers like Ram Mohan Roy, Keshav Chandra Sen, Jotiba Phule and even B. R. Ambedkar'' and "the mainstream secular and democratic elements in the national movement were unimportant or mere obstacles to the growth of Cultural Nationalism.''

 

"Harsh words are used for the moderates, there is a deliberate effort to either ignore or present in unfavourable light Jawaharlal Nehru and also the Left, especially the Communists''; the historians noted.

 

[Guruvani]

Aryan means "progressive". An Aryan is anyone who is spiritually progressive by following the Vedic culture.

Being born in India or even being born in a brahmin family does not make one an Aryan.

An Aryan is someone who is following the Vedic religions of karma kanda, Jnana kanda or Upasana Kanda according to the Vedic principles.

A Muslim born in India is not an Aryan, because he is not following a Vedic religion. A Christian born in India is not an Aryan because they are not following a Vedic religion . Anyone, be they African, European or American is an Aryan if they are "progressive" in human society by following the Vedic dharma of the Vedic scriptures as propounded by the Vedic acharyas and gurus.

[Gauracandra]

Never heard of Asatru. I have over time come across various similarities between some European religions and Vedic religion. However, nothing as specific that would tie to an ancient Germanic religion. What sorts of comparisons are you aware of?

[Guest guest]

The first use of the word Aryan is in India. India is the home of the Aryans.

[Guest guest]

The original home of the Aryan Race in India and most Indians are not only pure Aryans but also follow the Aryan religion and culture.

[Guruvani]

Again, try to understand - Aryan is not a race or a genetic line. Aryan is a term to describe the followers of the Vedas. Even a black African who follows the Vedas is an Aryan, whereas a person born in a Hindu Brahmin family is not an Aryan if he does not follow the Vedic religion.

[Guest guest]

The Aryan Race has its origin in India or Aryavarta. The Negro Race a fine race is not Aryan and has nothing to do with India. So stop playing these games in order for your personal political benefits you foreigners.

[Guest guest]

Yes.

i keep on hammering it

to all and any who say arnyan is a race.

 

aryan is not a race.

aryan is not a racist.

 

jai sri krishna!

 

[Guest guest]

your behaviour is not aryan ... but MUSLIM!!

 

the concept of india with boundaries at the sindhu river comes from arabs

 

bharata varsa is the entire world

[Guest guest]

In our classes in India we teach the Aryan Race originated in India. This is now a proven fact. Most of the people of our land in every corner are pure Aryans.

Aryaman Pathak

DAV School

Chowk

Kashi

[Guest guest]

I agree the Aryan race originated in India but must add the Iranians also by large are Aryans. Darius mentioned this-Dariush, the great king, the king of kings

The king of many countries and many peoples

The king of this expansive land,

 

The son of Wishtaspa of Achaemenid,

 

Persian, the son of a Persian,

 

'Aryan', from the Aryan race

 

[Guest guest]

The Aryan Race has orginated from the Eastern Europe and not from the Iran or the Central Asia . The people who call themselves as Aryans are the original White skinned race. The Aryans after settling in India particularly in the northern part of india ( around 1500 B.C as per the archaeological evidence ), started to worship the indigenous gods and goddess and the Aryans , later on had to accept the negro.. Lord Ram and Lord Krishna as their heroes or the gods in order the rule the local people of India ( please refer the Humayun Kabir book on the Indians Heritage ) .The lord Ram and Lord Krishan are negro people ( pre - dravidic race or race of the asia australoids or the dravidic ). The Ramayana and the Bhagawat Gita were re - written in sanskrit languages by the Arya white skinned Brahmins , later on or after the 5th Century of BC or 2nd Century of A. D .The brahmins are from different racial stocks... white..black... brown... yellow and mixed races ). The shatriyas are non arayn races , indigenous racial stocks , mongoloids and dravidic and pre dravidic racial stocks . The banias are basically the negro black people and other central asian racial stocks.... The untouchables are the pre - dravidic racial stocks........

[Guest guest]

'Next, they said the Aryans moved in, and subdued a population of dravidians that outnumbered them about 5,000 to 1. That's not possible'

 

Well what did the Spanish do to the Inca's then? It took about 170ish soldiers to conquer an entire empire. Thats what Europeans can do if they want to. And stop whinging about the British, we were generous enough to give you back your country. And look at it now- what has india achieved since the end of British colonialism. Ive been and i can honestly say india's in an extremely poor state of affairs.

[Guest guest]

Written in blood

 

New Scientist vol 170 issue 2291 - 19 May 2001, page 17

 

 

The origins of India's rigid caste system are confirmed by DNA tests

 

 

UPPER-CASTE Indians are genetically more like Europeans, while members of India's lower castes are more like other Asians, says an international team of researchers.

 

"It seems to confirm much of the research that basically has drawn from linguistic analysis and theories about the movements of people into South Asia," says Robert Hardgrave of the University of Texas, Austin, who has written extensively on India and its caste system. Based on such evidence, most historians believe that waves of Indo-European-speaking people from eastern Europe and the Caucasus set up the caste system as they moved into the Indian subcontinent about 5000 years ago.

 

"When the Aryans came in, they brought with them a social hierarchy," says Hardgrave. "We have some historical and archaeological evidence which suggests that as the Aryans came in, they intermarried with indigenous people and also absorbed many of them into their system of ranking."

 

Some people dismiss this theory as a myth, claiming it "devalues" India's history. Now, however, genetic studies have produced strong evidence supporting the theory. A team led by Michael Bamshad of the University of Utah in Salt Lake City compared the DNA of 265 Indian men from different castes with DNA from nearly 750 African, European, Asian and other Indian men.

 

First, they analysed mitochondrial DNA, which people only inherit from their mothers. When the researchers looked at specific sets of genes that tend to be inherited as a unit, they found about 20 to 30 per cent of the Indian sets resembled those in Europeans. The percentage was highest in upper caste males. Overall, though, each caste resembled other Asians most.

 

Next, the team studied genetic variations in the Y chromosome, which is inherited from the father. "We saw a strikingly different pattern," says Bamshad. In this case, most castes resembled Europeans more closely than Asians. "The upper castes were more similar to Europeans, the middle castes were genetically equidistant from Europeans and Asians, and the lower castes were more similar to Asians," he says.

 

The researchers got similar results when they examined 40 sets of genes on other chromosomes. The findings support the theory that the Indo-European immigrants appointed themselves to the higher castes, Bamshad says. The Y chromosome evidence also supports the idea that the original immigrants were mostly male.

 

The caste system was based on occupation and socioeconomic status. The upper castes were the Brahmans (priests), the Kshatriyas (warriors) and the Vaisyas (traders). The Sudras, who were the farmers and artisans, comprised the lower caste. Later, a fifth caste—"the untouchables"—was established for those who did menial tasks.

 

In modern India, the caste system is breaking down in some parts of society but still going strong in others, as a look at matrimonial ads in Indian newspapers reveals. While some expressly say that "caste is no bar", others ask for brides or bridegrooms not just of the same caste, but of the precise sub-caste.

 

 

Anil Ananthaswamy

 

 

[Guest guest]

if he believed in the vedas and lived by it

then he is an arya.

 

all HK's are aryans (KKK's are not.)

 

it has been said many times that

ARYAN IS NOT A RACE.

 

jai sri krishna!

 

 

[theist]

Once everyone agrees on who is a true Aryan, then what?

[xxvvii]

There're various races coexisting in this world. It may be not the cradleland of all human species but a bio testing zone. I'm considering that perhaps Aryans originated from neither aaryaavarta nor eranvej. The word Aryan has 2 word classes, n. & adj.. I always distinguish race from morality when I mentioned the concerned topics, while many of indians seemed unable to do so. Its synonyms can not only be found in vedas & avesta, but also in some alien reports as the race name. Post them up if you find any.

 

Earth is a mere point inappreciable in God's universe!

[Guest guest]

I am Dariush, the great king, the king of kings

The king of many countries and many peoples

The king of this expansive land,

The son of Wishtaspa of Achaemenid,

Persian, the son of a Persian,

'Aryan', from the Aryan race

"From the Darius the Great's Inscription in Naqshe-e-Rostam"

[ongelo]

I also wondered whether Bodhidharma could have been Tocharian. It seems likely to me. Someone who knows more about him could be helpful here.

 

As for your other question, could the Tocharians be proto-celts, I wondered about that too.

 

It seems not to be the case. Tocharian and Proto-celtic are closely related sibling languages, not identical. See here: http://www.oxuscom.com/eyawtkat.htm

 

You believe the desert mummies are the ancestors of the Tocharians. As far as I know, that hasn't been established, though it seems likely.

 

Ongelo

[Guest guest]

so-called evidence that the Aryan invasion occurred and that it is, indeed, a race?

 

I have to agree with him on at least one thing: it is possible for a small number of people to conquer an empire.

 

Although the Brit seems to be rather arrogant and seems to look down on Indians, he makes some very good points. I was wondering what the counter-argument to his 3 posts could be?

 

Especially regarding the genetic tests showing that the upper castes are more akin to Europeans than lower castes?

[Guest guest]

I'm lietuvis or eng. lithuanian.

 

Our similarities are astonishing! I'm trying to recover (pramanai) meaning of words used by pagan priest (zyniai, draudai, vaidilai, vedilai, vedylos - from meaning Veda - guiding, following).

 

My web site www.lietuvos.net link to first try - Pramata -

 

http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/pramata/lt_index.htm and

http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/lietuvos_dievai/lt_index.htm

 

My e-mail:

vikingas@

 

Su Dievu (means - God bless you)

[Guest guest]

I'm confused about the out-of-Europe/out-of-India Aryan discussion. From Persian sources, the name Aryan is a clan name of a greater people from whom the Medi, Parthi etc. came from. Latest evidence being uncovered is they are likely originate from the 'Bactria-complex' which is a sophisticated civilization with many urban centers, and likly a prehistoric state, that stretched from Kazakistan (east) to Bactria. These urban centers were abandoned en-mass with the emergence of invaders into the Mid East, India, Ukraine. The is some hint that these people are related to the expelled Xia people the first dynasty of China. The Xia appear to originate (maybe earlier then 6000BC) out of west-Central Siberia just after the great deludge (c10000BC) or great artic Tsunami swept the area (same flood occured in north America at the time which many geologist believe are from collapsed 'Ice Dams and buried mamouths in flood-mud). There is a great deal of 19th Century racial nationalism poluting the science of human origins. The Germans have their 'Nordics', the Franco-English have their 'Celts'. The material evidence so far suggest that modern Europeans origina from a central east Asian source and are probably prehistoric Siberians (as most of this DNA group, includinf American indians, Anui. Basque apear to be the domnant group in europe perhaps up to 5000BC. But some times after the time of the so-called Black Sea flood IE speakes appear bringing agriculture, cremation and domestigated anumals as well as metal working. They introduce into Europe from the east Baltic, with evidence the spread all the way to the UK and down to france. The are largely today the west Slav group which likely make up most of the european DNA stock to day. The so-called Celts do not materially appear until after the Cimmerians are driven out of the Ukraine (c700BC. The German speakers appear liguistic to have a turkic-Iranian origin about 1AD. India before the invasion had an advance civilization in the north west which may date to the ice age. Who inhabited this civilzations is a mystery, though some associate them with Davidian. There is some suggestion that davidian has UA language group roots. Finnish root word are found in the bulkans and Anatolia (such as Meri and Vedessa) in pre-Doric times. Turkic also seems to have a very early spread in the Mediteranian. The more likly scenario as to the Aryan invasion is that it may have been a long standing war between two civilizations (Harappa and Bactria-Altai Complex)and while a people came into India from the north, Harappans also agressively spead out up through the Persian Gulf laying a foundation bloc to western ciilization. The scenario of an India Invasion to the west is valid, just as a European invasion of India is. Time-line links these two events as the same. The Problem is whether Davidians are originally Austric and Europeans are from European. My own observation is both these groups are Siberian origin, and this may be the so-called caucasin homeland. DNA studies seem to hint this this. Future reserchers could find some interesting prehistoric artifacts below the mud of the flood plains of West Central Siberia. Red-heads appear to be the originsting IE speakers and may be a huminoid groups which one Brit DNA researcher suggest could have Nieanderthal evolutionary origins not Cro-Magnon. But this is another topic.

 

Stew

USA

[Guest guest]

"The lord Ram and Lord Krishan are negro people"

 

you mad ignorant and sinner