We Are Trying to Be the Greatest

[ethos]

You're not thinking very deeply on this Theist.

 

You're bringing up a whole 'nother range of topics such as what are you trying to do and say that is better than those you conquer.

 

But that's just 'round and 'round. I'm not in the mood.

 

God was Bharata Maharaja's justification and rightly so. Only God can ultimately justify what we do. But are the conquering Indians or Americans ready to give the Muslims religion? I don't think so. Poor example.

[theist]

Actually it is very simple. It goes like this. Stop the indiscriminate bombing.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Theist, this question is not befitting you:

 

"So the brahmins were the instructers in society. What did they tell the ksatriyas about duty?"

 

…Or you are not who you seem.

 

 

 

You're not thinking very deeply on this Theist.

 

 

Please avoid making such comments.

[ethos]

Just stop telling me what to say JNdas. Even if you have to ban me to do it. Hypocrite.

 

You warming up for a little delete activity?

 

You think I'm your puppet that you can intimidate me from half a world away? You have some big illusions.

 

I will do what I will and so will you. I look forward to your visit to Berkeley.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

You have been given enough warnings not to criticize other forum members. Already two members left because you attacked them for no reason. You will get one last chance. If you criticize or speak badly about another member again, then you will be banned. Do as you choose.

[ethos]

Man, the petty crap I've been subjected to here…

 

I've got better things to do.

 

Time to burn some bridges… JNdas, got to hell.

[theist]

ethos sorry see that you are rude. You have the manners of an eight year old child.

 

perhaps you should bow out of here with some grace.

 

Now you are telling jndas to go to hell? you pompous ass.

 

Funny how every thread you get on turns into this. Oh but its everybody else picking on you right? Maybe, just maybe its you.

 

i won't respond to you further. Take your best and last shot.

[leyh]

Dear Ethos:

 

I wanted to avoid reading your posts as soon as I sensed abuse, but I couldn't help it.

 

Anyway, I understand where you are coming from when you declared your choice of freedom, but I don't approve of your methods. Real freedom does not mean doing or saying anything we please. In Bhagavad-gita 2.64, the Lord refers to "the regulated principles of freedom".

 

[Guest guest]

For one that does the good, the evil cannot touch him.

Be ideal, attain prema, the pure love of Krishna, and distribute that love to all.

That is what we lack in the material world,

anything else (like violence) is anyway too much.

Be a vaishnava, have no fear!

Everything is under control, you cannot get but what you deserve and

There is no greater suffering in the world

than the lack of association with pure devotees of the Lord,

anything else (like violence) is anyway too much.

Be ideal, attain prema, the pure love of Krishna, and distribute that love to all.

Jiva cannot easily comprehend the spiritual attachment, cid anuraga,

which is jiva svadharama (true function).

Jiva is wholly unacquainted with the raga-anuga nature,

the nature that impels one to follow the soul s spontaneous attraction to the Lord.

Only infrequently, by the mercy of sadhus,

the raga-anuga nature can be awakened in the hearts of jivas.

There is no greater suffering in the world

than the lack of association with pure devotees of the Lord,

anything else (like violence) is anyway too much.

Be ideal, attain prema, the pure love of Krishna, and distribute that love to all.

trinad api sunicena, taror avi sahishnuna

amanina manadena kirtania sada hari

we are not called to punish, but to bless.

 

[anadi]

For one that does the good, the evil cannot touch him.

Be ideal, attain prema, the pure love of Krishna, and distribute that love to all.

That is what we lack in the material world,

anything else (like violence) is anyway too much.

Be a vaishnava, have no fear!

Everything is under control, you cannot get but what you deserve and

There is no greater suffering in the world

than the lack of association with pure devotees of the Lord,

anything else (like violence) is anyway too much.

Be ideal, attain prema, the pure love of Krishna, and distribute that love to all.

Jiva cannot easily comprehend the spiritual attachment, cid anuraga,

which is jiva svadharama (true function).

Jiva is wholly unacquainted with the raga-anuga nature,

the nature that impels one to follow the soul s spontaneous attraction to the Lord.

Only infrequently, by the mercy of sadhus,

the raga-anuga nature can be awakened in the hearts of jivas.

There is no greater suffering in the world

than the lack of association with pure devotees of the Lord,

anything else (like violence) is anyway too much.

Be ideal, attain prema, the pure love of Krishna, and distribute that love to all.

trinad api sunicena, taror avi sahishnuna

amanina manadena kirtania sada hari

we are not called to punish, but to bless.

 

[madhav]

Krishna says:

kim karma kim karmeti kavayo'pyatra mohitaah. (Gita 4.16)

 

We all can get confused about what is right karma at a time.

So, let us discuss it. My resposne to ethos prabhu's lines in <> is shown below it. Please remember that I am not argueing with ethos prabhu, but only discussing the points raised.

 

<<It is through God and religion that we know right and wrong. And we can know these things through study and practice.>>

 

Yes, and until we have realized god, we could make mistakes in deciding what is right karma at a time. Also, we need to know well that the Hindus respect and revere us for studying the vedic leterature and worship Krishna, the Islamists (or Koranists) believe we are demoniac and totally deluded adharmis. They cannot stand us or our activities.

 

<<Prabhupada said the whole world was implicated in sin. He called us all melechas. But he gave his love anyway. And Miracles resulted.>>

 

Yes, could you see why it happened? We could appreciate Prabhupada because we are not from Islam culture. Within us, any one who has come from islam faith is very rare. Of course Chaitanya was so strong a personality that two royal and rich muslims became his disciples (Rupa and Sanatan Goswamis). So, just like this, we need to help the Muslims (Bin Laden and party and their supporters) give up Islam and accept Krishna Bhakti. Now how it could happen? They have AK-47's etc. and we just have mala, kartal, and mridangas. Just as their strength is at body/weapon level, our strength is at intelligence and soul level and they do not have it. So, to use our intelligence to show the world how inhuman Islam is should help. We do not want to lie, as we are brahmanans generally, but we need to know the truth first about Islam.

 

<<We are not about any warfare or politics. Our program is peaceful revolution. Hare Krsna.>>

 

Yes. However, those who have destroyed our vedic temples and taken over our lands and lives and dignity, have already come to us with their agenda of Islamization of the whole world. So, what to do about it? Remember that when HK temples were in political or court troubles, the vedic people did come to support our cause to fight. We all fought together non violently. We still can do it when ever it is needed, but we should not pour cold water on the victims of the demoinac aggressors. If we cannot show kshatriyas what is their dharma at a critical time, how can we expect them follow us the brahmanas (spiritual leaders of the society? If we do not make an environment where in all three lower varnas accept our leadership as the spiritual guides for the society, what good it would be to become a first class brahmanas? If we say, we do not care society, but our selves only, then we really do not have motivation to preach or lead the society. It is sin to lead a society in a wrong direction also at critical times.

 

<<Please desist from this talk of retaliation and killing. It is not the mood of this board. >>

 

Krishna says:

kim karma kim karmeti kavayo'pyatra mohitaah (Gita 4.16)

 

Those who have demoniac mood are out all over the world.

If Akshardham temple and Raghunath temple destructions cannot open our eyes, then what incident we are waiting for to wake up? When Arjuna said that he will not fight, then Krishna said, "You must." To fail to under the real situation (like Arjuna failed initially) and not fight is adharma. Fortunately we can fight non violently also. That is very kosher fight. But to not fight at all and pour cold water on the victims cannot be justified in my limited buddhi.

 

If there is any confusion in the discussion, I pray the Goswamis to come here and enlighten us. May gurus, sadhus, and shastras help us.

 

Sure, I do not owe this forum nor control it.

So, I wll be here till the forum controlelrs allow it and till I feel I could help or learn from here.

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

 

[madhav]

Stonehearted prabhu wrote:

>>but Srila Prabhupada's mission is actually to produce vaishnavas. <<

 

Yes. Vaishnavas are those who worship Vishnu (Krishna).

The worshippers come from the vedic society that has four varnas (brahmana, kshatriya, vaishya, and shudra).

Or, those who become HK become a part of varnasrama.

 

So, Prabhupada has said, his mission is to produce first class brahmanas, the spiritual heads (guides and leaders) of the society. This time (of worldwide terrorism) now requires kshatriyas, non violent as well as violent if that becomes necessary. Any varna can do something within his/her ability to subdue this terrorism monster.

 

Suppose all become pure non violent brahmanas,

then there will not be police, military, guards, and no one to protect the vedic society and their religious infrastructure.

 

In the past 1000 years all these infrastructure have beed brutally destroyed by the Islamists in India. Who would want such barbarism to continue unchecked? Woudl it be dharma to not resist it?

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

You cannot use arrow brakets '<' for quoting people because the forum thinks its an html command. Everything in between will be made invisible.

 

Or you can invert the brackets, like this >> <<.

 

[stonehearted]

you'll find that those who become Krishna conscious are beyond varnashrama. Have you ever read Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's conversation with Ramananda Raya? Mahaprabhu didn't even find anything worth listening to until Ramananda moved way past varnashram.

 

That doesn't mean there's no scope for punishing miscreants. But you'll find that many of us here have little time or patience for discussing someone's merits or demerits on the basis of some material designation (but you'll also find many who find it fascinating).

[madhav]

My Dear jndas prabhu,

Thanks for letting me know propr use of brackets.

dandvat! -m

 

---------------------------

Stonehearted prabhu wrote:

 

>>you'll find that those who become Krishna conscious are beyond varnashrama. <<

 

It is not true and is not possible.

 

A shudra labors for body,

a vaishnav shudra labors for Krishna.

 

A vaishya does business for money/ senses,

a vaishnav vaishya sells books, milk, insense, CD's, and spiritual paraphernalia for Krishna.

Some want to make a lot of money to donate for temples and gurukulas, e.g. Vaishesika prabhu.

 

A kshatriya serves city as police or a nation as a soldier,

a vaishnav solder can do the same or protect KC people from miscreants. HK's do use such kshatriyas, even as guptacharas. When one HK group person reports how good or bad other HK group is doing, then it is guptachara or sandeshvaha karma of a kshatriya.

 

A brahmana studies scriptures, and pratices dharma, and preaches others. A vaishnav brahmana studies Krishna scriptures, practices KC and preaches others the same.

 

So, a KC person is a vaishnava, and vaishnava is only a section of varnastama society. Or, any KC society can be seen divided into these for varnas, doing seva for Krishna according to their gunas and karmas.

 

Only those devotees who are fully liberted, who are in consant touch with Krishna, who can talk and listen to Krishna have no duty to do, but they still do it to set an example for others. They already have attained vaikuntha or Krishna loka.

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

 

 

[madhav]

Stoneheaded prabhu wrote:

>>The transcendental devotees strive to establish a competitionless society with God in the center. <<

 

With god in center yes,

competion less no.

 

KC persons always compete with maya.

Not only they compete internally within each person ow within KC society, but evey compete with distributing products and sevices tht increase KC in external society.

 

Chaitanya did satyagraha against kazi.

That is competition.

 

He transformed Jai and Madhai.

That is competition.

 

He said, just chant this mantra.

That is competition.

 

He said spread KC in the world.

That is competition.

 

Competition cannot ba avoided in this material world.

 

Even in the spiritual world there is some competition under the infuence of mahamaya. e.g. one gopi would feel jealous of another for something.

 

When there is no competition, the creation comes to holt.

 

Even in HK temples, if there is no competition to peform superior seva, the temples wouldnot get qualifeid leaders and presidents or GBC's, or Goswamis.

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

 

 

[stonehearted]

madhav wrote: Stoneheaded prabhu wrote:

>>The transcendental devotees strive to establish a competitionless society with God in the center. <<

 

With god in center yes,

competion less no.

 

stone: Sorry, sir, but you're just wrong here. First, it's stonehearted, with a lower-case s. And since you feel quite free to insult me (And who wouldn't, if they really knew me? Perhaps stoneheaded is more appropriate), please spare me your phony "prabhu" crap. And more to the point, my signature is a condensation of a quotation from Srila Prabhupada's purport to the second verse of Srimad-Bhagavatam: "It is purely transcendental literature which can be understood only by the pure devotees of the Lord who are transcendental to competitive sense gratification. In the material world there is keen competition between animal and animal, man and man, community and community, nation and nation. But the devotees of the Lord rise above such competitions. They do not compete with the materialist because they are on the path back to Godhead where life is eternal and blissful. Such transcendentalists are nonenvious and pure in heart. In the material world, everyone is envious of everyone else, and therefore there is competition. But the transcendental devotees of the Lord are not only free from material envy, but are well-wishers to everyone, and they strive to establish a competitionless society with God in the center."

 

A superficial understanding of Krishna consciousness based on bodily identity may help us to some degree; utlimately, however, we must become progressive, saragrahi vaishnavas. Want to know what Srila Prabhupada's misson is? Try reading his mission statement for the International Society for krishna Consciousness:

Seven Purposes of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness:

(a)To systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to society at large and to educate all peoples in the techniques of spiritual life in order to check the imbalance of values in life and to achieve real unity and peace in the world.

(b)To propagate a consciousness of Krishna, as it is revealed in the Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagwatam.

©To bring the members of the Society together with each other and nearer to Krishna, the prime entity, thus to develop the idea within the members, and humanity at large, that each soul is part and parcel of the quality of Godhead (Krishna).

(d)To teach and encourage the sankirtan movement, congregational chanting of the holy name of God as revealed in the teachings of Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

(e)To erect for the members and for society at large, a holy place of transcendental pastimes, dedicated to the Personality of Krishna.

(f)To bring the members closer together for the purpose of teaching a simpler and more natural way of life.

(g)With a view towards achieving the aforementioned Purposes, to publish and distribute periodicals, magazines, books and other writings.

 

Everything else is supplementary.

 

Want to know what life's ultimate goal is? Read Lord Chaitanya's conversation with Ramananda in Sri Chaitanya-charitamrita.

 

Want to know how to identify yourself, ultimately, according to Mahaprabhu? "Neither brahmana, nor kshatriya, nor vaishya, nor shudra; neither a brahmacari, grihastha, vanachari, nor sannyasi. Simply a servant of the servants of Krishna, who is the Lord of the gopis, nothing else."

 

While we are not yet liberated, it may be helpful to live and work according to our psychophysiological nature. However, to dismiss the ideal is to miss the whole point of this movement; it is not the varnashrama movement, but the sankirtan movement. And the sankirtan party is the real fire brigade, since the actual emergency is being caught in the raging fire of material existence. The other problems are only symptoms, and the things you propose may (or may not) be necessary in a pinch, but they're only Band-aid solutions at best, and our attachment to some sort of Hindu nationalism will help neither us nor anyone else in the ultimate issue. Only radical (look it up!) surgery will help.

 

 

[stonehearted]

madhav wrote: A vaishya does business for money/ senses,

a vaishnav vaishya sells books, milk, insense, CD's, and spiritual paraphernalia for Krishna.

Some want to make a lot of money to donate for temples and gurukulas, e.g. Vaishesika prabhu.

 

If Krishna says in Bhagavad-gita that these designations are based on personal qualities and work (and, by the way, He does), I'd say the Vaisheshika I know is more a brahmana vaishnava than vaishya. Perhaps he does some business, but that's also allowed for brahmanas when necessary. But I've been in kirtans he has led, heard his classes, spent time with him, and heard about his vigorous efforts in spreading Lord Chaitanya's teachings. He's a brahmana vaishnava, sir.

[madhav]

Dear stonehearted das,

 

your above two responses are good.

i did not know you were so sensitive about capital s in stonehearted word. since you did not like prabhu word,

i have used das word. i cannot use jerk word, sorry.

 

ok, vaishesika prabhu can be said brahmana vaishnav.

you seem to know him more than i do.

 

let me try to expand what i meant by competition.

 

a devotee first competes with him/her self.

he whould try to do something better than he did it before.

 

a society or movement by a group cannot progress without some organization, heirarchy and leadership, and responsibility distribution. so, best leaders are chosen by comparing one against the other. so it is a competition but friendly and without envy.

 

Now regarding:

>>The transcendental devotees of the Lord are not only free from material envy, but are well-wishers to everyone,<<

 

The Hindus would easily respect this behavior of KC persons,

but the Muslims do not get impressed by it at all.

 

Their agenda as set by Koran is to take over the world and make every one a Muslim. This they are pursuing it; and India, the Hindus, already have lost a lot of land, and all the muslims that are there are the decendents of the Hindus who were forcibley convertred to Islam.

 

So, The focus of HK's I think should be to give KC to the Muslims ten times more than the Hindus who never have desire to convert any one against one's wish.

Instead, what i see is that effort to give KC in the Muslims world is very very less.

 

akshardham temple and raghunath temples are already attacked. what do HK's think about it please?

Is in not an attack on them, the vedic culture?

What they plan to do about terrorism?

It is coming like a wild fire.

To think that just sankirtana and chanting will stop the demons is very childish in my view. Their history of aggresions show that they really do not care how nice Hk's are.

 

So, suppose some asura comes with weapons in a sankirtan party, then what would HK's do?

Accept Islam to stay alive, or get killed?

Any of the option is not desirable.

 

The right action is to do smoething

so that such no terrorist can come like that in the first place. That is a preventative measure and best in my view.

 

To do nothing about terrorism proactively is to invite disaster at the door step. Just recently a Muslim killed three christians missionaries in Jordan.

 

What is wrong in studying Koran and Hadith and find out what it has that produces so many terrorists?

Why so many rich Muslims are supporting terrorism?

 

A society will have kshatriyas, and HK's cannot do their KC work without the protection from kshatriyas.

 

kshatriya dharma is: "know thy enemy".

More they know about enemy the better they can make their strategy and tactis to fight and win.

 

Would HK's not want kshatriyas to win these barbarians?

Are Hk's able to win /cool the barbarisna before kshatriyas can win?

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

 

[stonehearted]

madhav wrote: i did not know you were so sensitive about capital s in stonehearted word. since you did not like prabhu word, i have used das word. i cannot use jerk word, sorry.

 

stone: My real gripe was with calling me "stoneheaded." Yes, I'm a lunkhead, but I don't like that being pointed out publicly by others, especially those who don't even know who I am, much less know me personally. The remark about the lower-case s was facetious.

 

As far as the substance of your post, I think all these problems are symptoms of Kali's influence, nothing more, nothing less. I fully believe Srila Prabhupada's assertion that "if there is an arrangement for the constant chanting of the holy names, qualities, etc., of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no chance at all for the personality of Kali to enter. That is the technique of driving away the personality of Kali from the world." It's your prerogative to consider that a "childish" view; my 33 years of endeavor in advancing in Krishna consciousness give me a different perspective. I don't have any evidence that anyone has actually tried the sankirtan solution. I agree that we should increase our preaching efforts in Muslim countries by tenfold. Those who have that degree of faith will go for it. Because their efforts will necessarily be undercover, the rest of us will hear of them only occasionally. I remember hearing that Srila Prabhupada said he would take the dust from the feet of those who preach in Muslim countries on his head.

 

Those of you who have faith in material arrangements for stopping Kali's work will certainly go ahead and pursue them. You don't need my permission. Kick ass and have a blast.

[madhav]

 

Dear stonehearted das,

although we are kind of debating, we are mosty in sync.

some diference in thoughts may remain.

so talking helps.

 

>>stone: My real gripe was with calling me "stoneheaded." Yes, I'm a lunkhead, but I don't like that being pointed out publicly by others, especially those who don't even know who I am, much less know me personally. The remark about the lower-case s was facetious.<<

 

oh, i am really sorry for that mistake. please forgive me for such unintended mistake. from now i would jsut address you as stone if that is ok with you. it is not in my psyche to use any bad words, even in my mind, even mild, to any one, no matter how many and strong bad words one showers upon me.

 

>>As far as the substance of your post, I think all these problems are symptoms of Kali's influence, nothing more, nothing less.<<

 

Yes, but some do not do anything about it. that is real sad. some do. what they do is stop kali influence upon them selves which is lot easier than stopping kali influence on others/demons. The need is to stop influence on the asuras/ rakshasas. Only those who are more or less free from kali can do it better. Therefore I look forward to HK's for this difficult mission in the interest of sanatana dharma.

 

 

>> I fully believe Srila Prabhupada's assertion that "if there is an arrangement for the constant chanting of the holy names, qualities, etc., of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no chance at all for the personality of Kali to enter.<<

 

Yes, kali will not enter in the chanter while chanting.

But it will not stop kali from entering the non chanters.

 

>> That is the technique of driving away the personality of Kali from the world." <<

 

Yes, but the priorpty is to make the asuras/terrorists chant faithfully. If we waste time on the non-violent Hindus who already worship krishna, then these asuras will do their job under the full strong influence of Kali and Koran. Consequently, we will not have bodies to chant or dance.

 

>>It's your prerogative to consider that a "childish" view; <<

 

i have the view that i gave above.

i worry-not how any one categorizes it.

karmanye va dhi karaste...

 

>>my 33 years of endeavor in advancing in Krishna consciousness give me a different perspective. I don't have any evidence that anyone has actually tried the sankirtan solution. <<

 

yes, and no.

you and some others did try,

and it would not be incorrect to say you are free from kali,

but who are the important people we need to influence to accept sankirtana method? did we list them, did we target them, did we make strong effort convince them?

who else other than us could convince them?

what is best method to get their attention and interest and dedication/commitment?

 

>>I agree that we should increase our preaching efforts in Muslim countries by tenfold. Those who have that degree of faith will go for it. Because their efforts will necessarily be undercover, the rest of us will hear of them only occasionally. I remember hearing that Srila Prabhupada said he would take the dust from the feet of those who preach in Muslim countries on his head.<<

 

Wonderful! There is the priority.

 

>>Those of you who have faith in material arrangements for stopping Kali's work will certainly go ahead and pursue them. You don't need my permission. Kick ass and have a blast. <<

 

Yes, a gunatita like your self will have a brahmana's view point/world view. However, like your self, they also need not forget that kshatriya work is important and is needed.

Therefore, HK's should also educate/train kshatriyas also.

And any society need a lot more kshatriyas than gunatitis.

 

>>The transcendental devotees of the Lord are not only free from material envy, but are well-wishers to everyone, and they strive to establish a competitionless society with God in the center. <<

 

yes, and they (should) encourage kshatriyas to play their part as needed. they also keep them on like with dharma.

 

Finally, there are many non violent ways to fight terrorism.

why not fight non violently first?

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

 

 

[stonehearted]

Of course, it was a typo. I'm sorry I didn't recognize that and sorrier that I sulked about the mistake. stone is okay; my old friend Mahaksha calls me that here. Babhru as also fine, as that's my name.

 

it appears that we mostly agree that wide broadcasting of Lord Chaitanya's gospel is at the heart of solving the problem. The other things you suggest are fine with me; I continue to hold that sankirtan is the real priority. I hope that some day my faith in that will be strong enough that I have nothing else to do. That may come with your blessings.

[madhav]

Dear Babhru das,

 

i like the name babhru.

i think originally the name is babru (babruvAhana).

He was a mighty warrior.

He is known as veer babruvAhana.

 

Some devotees like sankirtana as chaitanya preached.

However, it is not a right weapon against the external asuras/demons, it is only good to keep the sankirtan doers free from kali or maya.

 

The asuras cannot become sympatheic or friendly to sankirtan doers just because they do sankirtana.

This kafir activity invokes hate and anger in them.

Therefore krishna's (not chaitanyas) message is of priority at this time.

 

(O arjuna,) yuddhAya krita nischaha..

 

To those who understand my point,

i beg them to convince it to others also.

 

remember, any society needs more kshatriyas than brahmanas (the spiritual guides). leaders alwasy are few and followers more (who lead themselves staying within the higher direction).

 

The other point is, no one really is pure brahmana or pure kshatriya or pure vaishya or pure shudra. it is not possible. One alwasy has one guna more predominant than others most of the times. parasurama was a brahmana, but invoked his kshatriya spirit when he saw the need for it.

same for kautilya (maha muni chanakya).

the same is true for any one.

 

sikh religion basically says, "do farming, but keep weapon."

sikhs are vaishnays mostly, but invoke kshatriya spirity any time and do violence agains the asuras if necessary.

we hindus (HK's included) already have this in dharma.

------

 

No..i am not high enought to bless.

i pray for your progress in bhakti,

that you become an uttama adhikari/goswami.

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

 

[stonehearted]

Madhava wrote: i think originally the name is babru (babruvAhana). He was a mighty warrior.

 

Actually it's Babhru das. When Srila Prabhupada initiated me, he said only that Babhru is a great devotee in the Yadu dynasty. You'll find seveal Babhrus in the 9th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam. My favorite is described like this:

 

babhrur devavrdha-sutas

tayoh slokau pathanty amu

yathaiva srnumo durat

sampasyamas tathantikat

 

TRANSLATION

The son of Devavrdha was Babhru. Concerning Devavrdha and Babhru there are two famous songs of prayer, which were sung by our predecessors and which we have heard from a distance. Even now I hear the same prayers about their qualities [because that which was heard before is still sung continuously].

 

babhruh srestho manusyanam

devair devavrdhah samah

purusah panca-sastis ca

sat-sahasrani casta ca

ye 'mrtatvam anuprapta

babhror devavrdhad api

mahabhojo 'tidharmatma

bhoja asams tad-anvaye

TRANSLATION

"It has been decided that among human beings Babhru is the best and that Devavrdha is equal to the demigods. Because of the association of Babhru and Devavrdha, all of their descendants, numbering 14,065, achieved liberation." In the dynasty of King Mahabhoja, who was exceedingly religious, there appeared the Bhoja kings.

SB 9.24.12

 

madhav: To those who understand my point,

i beg them to convince it to others also.

 

Many of us understand your point but have other priorities, based on our understanding of the acharyas' teachings. Varnashram is nice, and a well-organized society needs people who are qualified to lead as kshatriyas do. However, the ulitmate goal of everyone's life should be to cultivate Krishna-prema following the moods of the residents of Vrindaavan.

 

Have wonderful new year full of Hari-nama.

 

 

 

[madhav]

ok.

 

I thought of Babruvahan, a son of Bhima (one of the Pandavas).

 

Jai Sri Krishna!