The Aryans Came Down Like Wolves on the Flock

[Guest guest]

The way people talk, you'd think that there're only two 'races' in India: the 'Aryans' (which isn't even a race) from the north and the 'Non-Aryans' from the south.

There are actually only four races of man: Negroids, Austriods, Caucasiods, and Mongoliods. All four are represented in India in one way or another, making it one of the most diverse places on the planet. There's also religous and cultural diversity as well.

 

[xxvvii]

Also remember the root of ignite is Agni, not the other way around.

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Very good.

 

even though in the Vedas the word Arya was used as an adjective not a noun.

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In this world remains another scri. - Avesta. Let's see these words: snow, beech, corn, oak, birch, willow, wolf, bear, turtle, salmon, & the last word, "mare": black "mare", caspian "mare".

[Guest guest]

"Making The World Truly Aryan"

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.15.25-26

Los Angeles, December 4, 1973

 

 

 

"Translation: O King, as in the ocean the bigger and stronger aquatics swallow up the smaller and weaker ones, so also the Supreme Personality of Godhead, to lighten the burden of the earth, has engaged the stronger Yadu to kill the weaker, and the bigger Yadu to kill the smaller."

 

Prabhupada: This is the theory of struggle for existence and survival of the fittest. The law of nature is like that, that the stronger overpowers the weaker. The stronger overpowers the weaker. In another place it is stated,

 

ahastani sahastanam

apadani catus-padam

phalguni tatra mahatam

jivo jivasya jivanam

 

A living entity, they live by eating another living entity. What is that? Ahastani sahastanam. Sahastanam means those who are endowed with hands. That means man, man form, human form, they have got hands. So those who have no hands..., just like the animals, they have got legs, they have no hands. So ahastani, those who have no hands, they are food for the animal with hands: bite that animal. Those animal with hands... They are animal, those who are eating another animal; they are not human being. Although they have got the form of human being, they are not considered human being. Human being means when he's civilized, cultured, then he's human being. If he's not civilized, if he's not cultured, simply having two hands -- he's animal.

 

So that culture begins, civilized, in the Aryan families. Therefore they are called Aryans, "advanced." Aryan means advanced. People want to group themselves in the Aryan family. Just like Hitler, he declared himself only, "The Germans are only Aryans, and Jews are not Aryans," like that. You can manufacture. But real Aryan means one who is advanced in spiritual consciousness. He is Aryan. Not a class of men. Aryan means he's advanced in spiritual consciousness. The Aryan civilization is so eulogized because they..., in the Aryan civilization there was Vedic culture. That is Aryan. Otherwise ahastani sahastanam, and that is apadani catus-padam. This is going on, struggle for existence. In the primitive age that human being, so-called human being, naked, in the jungle, they eating animals. The animals have no leg... The Darwin's theory is that there was no civilized man, but gradually it has developed. It is not very clearly explained; he does not know what is the evolution. Evolution means to become civilized. That is evolution. Or to advance in Krsna consciousness. That is evolution.

 

So this is the law of nature, that the weaker section is devoured by the stronger section. So here it is said, jalaukasam jale yadvat. In the water, there are so many aquatic animals, the struggle is going on. The stronger fish eating the weaker fish. This is going on. That is the law of nature. Therefore meat-eaters, so long they are like animals, they can go on with this nature's law. You are man, you are stronger; therefore weaker animal -- cows and goats -- you slaughter them. They are stronger bodily, but they have no intelligence. So man has got intelligence. So if you misuse your intelligence in that way, you can do that. That is nature's law. But human being means culture, advance, in spiritual consciousness. That is human. So this consciousness is developing gradually.

 

So unless you come to this platform, as Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [bg. 4.13], then you must divide the society. Amongst the animals, there is no division. Everyone is on the same status. No. Because the aim is how to develop Krsna consciousness. Therefore there must be some system. So that system, unless one comes to the platform of this varnasrama-dharma, four divisions, social divisions, and four spiritual divisions, and those divisions are made by Krsna Himself, maya srstam, He says. That is natural. But by such institution we can gradually understand what is the aim of life.

 

varnasramacaravata

purusena parah puman

visnur aradhyate pantha

nanyat tat-tosa-karanam

 

Our... What is the aim of life? The aim of life is that we are now detached from God. This is our position. Material life means detached from God, detached from Krsna. So this detachment is the cause of suffering.

 

mukha-bahuru-padebhyah

purusasyasramaih saha

catvaro jajnire varna

gunair vipradayah prthak

 

We are different parts and parcels of Krsna, God, so we must act accordingly. Just like my hand. Hand is there. If the hand is in proper place, he can act nicely. But if I cut the leg and make hand or hand make the leg, then it is all lost. All lost. One must act according to his qualification. That, according to that qualification, the brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, they are described in the Bhagavad-gita. This brahmana means, these are the symptoms, satyam samo damas titiksa arjavam, jnanam vijnanam astikyam brahma-karma svabhava-jam. This is human civilization. We must train people in such a way that we must see there what is his quality. According to quality. Just like a physician gives medicine according to the symptom of the disease, then it is cured. Not that any medicine. In the drug house, there are so many medicines. You cannot say "Any medicine will do." No. It is the physician who will pick up the real medicine and he'll administer to the patient. Then he'll be cured.

 

So this varnasrama-dharma means catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [bg. 4.13], from the animal position of the human being, to bring him to the human position. That is varnasrama-dharma. Just (as in) school (or) college, to become graduate means to become distinguished from the fools and rascals. Similarly, human being does not mean the struggle for existence as the one big fish is eating another small fish, another is... No, no, that is not human. That is natural, but you have to rectify the natural position for the..., for realization of the utmost aim of life. That is human life. Not to treat like animals. Sa eva go-kharah [sB 10.84.13]. So that spiritual consciousness begins when one understands that he is soul; he is not this body, he is spirit soul, aham brahmasmi. Brahman means the spirit soul. And there human civilization begins. Otherwise, anarya, anarya-justam. Krsna, when Arjuna was declining to fight, He chastised him that "This denial is anarya-justam. It is befitting for the anarya, those who are not advanced. One must do his duty. You are a ksatriya, your duty is to fight to give protection to the citizen, so why you are denying this?"

 

So here the example is given, jalaukasam jale yadvan mahantah adanti. Adanti means swallows up. Similarly, when the Yadus became very powerful... Because they are descendants of Krsna, who can be...? So they were fighting anywhere, conquering anywhere, and everywhere they were victorious. So that was bhu-bharan. Bhu-bharan means burden of the world. When one becomes extravagant and misuses his power, that is burden of the world. You cannot misuse your... You get power by the grace of God, by grace of Krsna. If you misuse it, then you become a burden, a burden. As soon as there is burden, then it is dharmasya glanih. Krsna says, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati [bg. 4.7]. As soon as there is a misuse of power, tadatmanam srjamy aham, He comes. So Yadu-vamsa, Krsna's dynasty, when Krsna saw that they are becoming so powerful, that unnecessarily they are fighting, therefore to kill them, that fighting spirit was engaged for fighting amongst themselves, one another. Therefore they were all... Fighting, there is necessity; but if you misuse that fighting spirit...

 

Just like at the present moment the politicians, as soon as they see that they cannot manage things, in the country there is confusion, they declare some war so that the whole attention may be turned that side, and there will be no agitation of the internal dissatisfaction. This is diplomacy. This is diplomacy. We have seen it in Pakistan. As soon as they cannot rule over, they cannot, but they (indistinct), "Oh, the Hindus are our enemy. Kashmir, he has taken." Attention is diverted and they declare war, and again become defeated. So this kind of war is not required. This kind of war is not required. But war is there already, struggle for existence. Just like here, when Krsna saw that the Yadu dynasty is becoming... On the strength of Krsna, they have become so powerful that they (are) unnecessarily fighting, so Krsna wanted that His family, may be..., it may not be degraded farther, so He wanted to kill them. And who can kill them? No outsider can kill them, they are Krsna's descendants, that is not possible. Therefore yadun yadubhir anyonyam bhu-bharan sanjahara ha, they fighting amongst themselves, they reduced the burden of the world.

 

So it is... Krsna is exhibiting how things are going on. As soon as there will be burdensome, there will be some war, pestilence, famine -- and finished. And finished. You don't require to reduce population by contraceptive method. By nature's way, the wholesale it will be reduced, bhu-bharan sanjahara. By nature's way. Why should you commit sinful activities? You don't beget children unnecessarily and don't kill them. That is religion. That is civilization. Why should you unnecessarily produce children like cats and dog? Their sastra says that don't become father, don't become mother if you cannot save your sons from death. This is the responsibility. This is father's, mother's, responsibility. Na mocayed yah samupeta-mrtyum, pita na sa syaj janani na sa syat. One should not become, try to become father, one should not try to become mother if the parents cannot save the child from imminent death. That is the responsibility. And who is that father? Who is that mother? This is Vedic civilization. My Guru Maharaja used to say that "I am a sannyasi. I am not married, neither I am meant for marrying. But if I can produce Krsna conscious children, I can marry hundred times." That is the responsibility. Don't produce cats and dogs; produce Krsna devotees. Then you'll marry. Otherwise don't marry. This is Vedic injunction. Marriage is not meant for sense gratification. Marriage is meant for producing nice children, Krsna devotees.

 

So that is our aim. Our aim is not to produce cats and dogs. There are so many cats and dogs, the world is not happy. Now there is need of producing nice children, sober, gentle, devotee of Krsna, good brain, good character. These things are required. So they were not unwanted children, these Yadus. This is a make-show (indistinct) other. They came, they are all demigods, they descended just to fulfill Krsna's mission. Krsna's mission, Krsna came down so all the confidential servants of Krsna, they also appeared to help Him in different... So when Krsna wanted to go, He wanted to go with the descendants also, who came to help Him. So this is a make-show that the Yadus fought amongst themselves. The real purpose is, Krsna wanted to take them away. Otherwise, superficially, when one becomes unnecessarily powerful, disturbs the world situation, he's a burden. He's a burden. That kind of burden is vanquished by Krsna's desire, will. There must be some catastrophe like war, pestilence, famine, and everything will be finished.

 

So our duty is, the human form of life, duty is that we should know that we are eternal servant of Krsna and, forgetting our relationship, we have come to this material world, and there is struggle for existence, beginning aquatics, jalaja nava... There are nine hundred thousand species of aquatics. Who is that physiologist who can know nine hundred thousand species of aquatics? But in the sastra you will find, exactly. It doesn't say nine hundred one, Or eight hundred ninety-nine. No. Nine hundred. Nine hundred thousand species, there are. So because we are in the material contact, and according to our desire, we are having different types of body -- aquatics, trees, birds, like that. This is our botheration. Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi, in this way you are... This is our problem. Therefore human civilization means when people are interested to solve the problems. That is human civilization. Otherwise animal. Struggle for existence. They... There is no human side, that is on the animal side, struggle for existence. Human life is not for struggle. To become sober, not like animals. The animals are engaged whole day and night for searching out food and sense gratification, sex. That is not human civilization.

 

Human civilization is meant for tapasya, tapasya. You should know what is my responsibility. Tapasa brahmacaryena samena ca damena ca [sB 6.1.13]. One should learn how to practice tapasya. Tapasya. This is tapasya, little tapasya. No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, and no intoxication, this is tapasya, little tapasya. Who is dying without meat-eating? We have got so many students. There are so many Vaisnavas, they do not eat meat. Are they dying? This is only bad habit. But if you practice little... In the beginning it may be little troublesome. It is not troublesome. I am thinking... Just like one gentleman came, "We cannot give up meat-eating. I want, but I cannot." Practice. Abhyasa-yoga-yuktena cetasa [bg. 8.8]. Anything you practice, habit is the second nature. So in association of the devotee, if you try to practice this tapasya... Tapasa brahmacaryena [sB 6.1.13], not to have sex life without any purpose, that is called brahmacari. Brahmacari does not mean celibacy. Brahmacari means who does not use sex life for any other purpose than begetting nice children. He is brahmacari.

 

So this is... Everything should be systematic otherwise there will be chaos. There will be chaos. Nobody will be happy and... That is described in the Bhagavad-gita, naraka eva kalpate: the whole world will be hell. That has become now. The whole world has now become hell. So the Krsna consciousness movement is very important movement. It is overhauling the whole human, social, political, religious... So those who are engaged in Krsna consciousness movement, they should be very, very responsible, sober, try to understand the situation and take the shelter of Krsna, and everything will come very successful.

 

Thank you very much. (end

[Guest guest]

Yes there is one theory of human races that states there are only four races of man. But its clearly a false one as it states Europeans are the same race as Arabs or Indians ie Caucasoid. I think its quite bklatantly obvious theyre different races and hence the four race theory is bollox.

[Guest guest]

no that is incorrect, there are 4 races, and then their

are varieties in that race.

 

the difference between the races are much more then the differences between sub races.

 

A caucasion that is blond and blue eyed and an

indian who is not part mongoloid, australiod

or negroid is only different then the blond

in skin tone,eye color, and hair color and type.

 

whereas the difference between a blond and and the other races are much different, different bone structure,

nose structure, eye structure, and so on.

 

in india we find a mix, all the races are there, and have

been for a long time.

[Guest guest]

No one can create a false controversy in India. The Aryan race was native to India. The first use of the word Aryan is from Rigveda. In addition most of us in India in every corner are pure Aryans. You can only use the Indian criterion for the word Aryan as this is an Indian name.

[Guest guest]

WHO CARES FOR THE WESTERN PROPAGANDA MEDIA IN INDIA. OUR RACE IS ARYAN AND WE CAME FROM INDIA.

[Guest guest]

In regards to Indra as destroyer of cities (Purandara) - could this not refer to older cities in S.India that were reported to be destroyed by floods?

 

Infact, the "Aryans", as in Bhagavatam, are said to decend from Manu who was a S.Indian Raja named Satyavrata, who obviously escaped from a flood.

 

Many thousands of years ago, it seems Aryans and Dravidians spoke Vedic Sanskrit, and the pure ones (Aryans) migrated North around the flood time. Some stayed behind.

 

It hardly requires any "Invasion" by Aryans!

 

No historical tale in India supports an Aryan Invasion. Shankara, Ramanuja, Madhava, Nimbarka etc. - India's great Vedantists, were also Dravidians who decended from Vedic Seers and traditions.

 

Agastya and Asuramaya (Ushanas), Patron Gurus in S.India, are also Seers in the oldest portions of the Rig Veda itself. Agastya in Mandala I, also has many hymns addressing Indra and the Maruts, who resemble later Shiva and the Nathas or Siddhas.

 

Agastya's main disciple and brother, Vasishta, in Rig Veda, is also the Seer of the Mahamrityunjaya mantra of Shiva!

[Kulapavana]

The past is gone and some questions may never be resolved, even if they seem to be relevant to our current situation.

However, what is most relevant today is the need to reestablish a true Aryan society based not on "noble race" but on NOBLE CULTURE... that was the second part of Srila Prabhupada's mission. It is impossible to imagine the predicted (however limited) comeback of the Golden Age without recreation of such noble culture and society...

[Guest guest]

Anveshans original post seemed to make quite a bit of sense, interesting how many "knee jerk" responses there were to it. "aryan invasion" is a generic term of course but invasions of india obviously occurred. People of varying "religious" beliefs have merged and mixed throughout history, this fact almost seems to make many of the "hindu" forums crowd very uneasy.

[Guest guest]

What's in dispute is WHAT the source of our culture is, WHEN it was introduced, and HOW it was introduced.

 

There are quite a few reasonable arguments against this whole "Aryan invasion" theory that have already been posted. Some posts may be attributed to "kneejerk" responses, but it would be rather spurious to attribute that to all the posts, as if to proclaim they have no merit.

[Guest guest]

Uh.. read my post again and you will note i said "many", not all responses were "knee jerk". Naturally, all of us are ignorant in matters of ancient history. Conclusions are based on logic, not always on "facts". The real emphasis of my post was the observation of the "hush" policy of mixed/invader influence on the vedas etc.

[Guest guest]

Why? And I find it quite natural for Hindus to wanting to forget that theory. It has caused enough strife in dividing Hindus, and leading them to conversion to other religions. Also, it's not like in American schools this idea is being taken as merely theory, but it's taken as fact. A lot of Hindus become ashamed of their own religion once they think that it came from a nomadic tribe of Aryans.

 

Maybe such invasions did happen. Maybe the vedas were introduced through them, or maybe the Vedas already existed. No way to tell what happened, since facts can always be twisted to suit one's needs. I prefer to look at it from a Hindu perspective, biased or not, and consider the aryan invasion theory to be simply a theory and not fact.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jai Ganesh

 

Western historians have written history to suit their superiority complex.they could not believe a culture so rich could exist outside their domains, they concocted this theory of aryans.Is there any trace of so called race or culture outside of India? Any proof where they are supposed to have sprung from?

Aryan is a noble person not a race

Lord Krishna says to Arjun this is anarya. i.e. a person who do not know the value of life.

Pariksit maharaja the grand son of Arjun was the last chakravati Raja i.e. king of the world, and the noble aryan was already in Bharat there is no possibility of later day invasion of aryans

I believe the Vedic shastra and not an outsider who has an ulterior motive

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

Why would "aryan" invasions of india happen "in my dreams"? I don't happen to value one group of people over another because some "history" book tells me to. In fact, just as with "aryans" of india, dravidic groups also share similarities with "europeans". You're taking your 'no invasion' policy to ridiculous extremes. Of course there were northern influences on indian spirituality just as undoubtedly influences WENT NORTH too. Who was more influential? Who cares? How much value are you placing on "racial" purity and WHY?

[Guest guest]

to avoid "confusion", over who's posting what, until i register i'll use the username green banner. thanks for your patience.

[Guest guest]

then again, i'll not use that username once i'm registered. thanks again for your patience. :]

[Guest guest]

All nonsense. The Aryan race originated in India. We are purest of Aryans in every corner of our land. Colour changes due to climate. Some other races mainly austro people are also spread in minorities all over India.

[Guest guest]

The Term "aryan" refers to people who follow vedas.

 

The Term "dravidian" refers to people who dont follow vedas.

 

Its a illusion that aryans are north-indians or people coming from "somewhere".

 

Moreover avensha who started the thread refered Aryans as wolves. So does he mean that "People who follow vedas" are wolves. stinking point, isnt it ? maybe avensha is a "enlightened" follower of so called "max muller's".

 

This thread is started to waste time. So we should close this discussion & chant God.

[Guest guest]

Who said Dravidians do not follow vedas?

 

What you say is rubbish.

 

I am a tamil Iyer. I am a dravidian, I follow vedas and at the same time read thirumantiram.

 

Dont talk like a frog in the well ( ie limited exposure).

 

I know lot of black brahmins. So the whole stuff is messed up somewhere.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Muzhu Poosanikkaya Sothula Maraikka mudiyadhu. Which means, you cannot hide a full uncut ash guard in a pile of rice.

 

I think there is some truth somewhere of some sort of invasion or migration or something like that.

 

Even now North Indians look down upon south Indians.

 

So let us not deny facts.

 

North Indians still believe madrasis are lungiwallahs and are ridiculed. And they have made it a point to claim superiority of Hindi and impose hindi on tamil people.

 

If we still keep saying aryan invasion was not there, we are overlooking something.

[Guest guest]

Just evidence for stupidity.

 

North Indians have a superiority complex when it comes to people of their own region, yet have an inferiority complex when relating to the West. Go figure.

[Guest guest]

Its not stupidity. Its their self assumed superiority.

Let them have their own superiority complex. Why impose Hindi on Tamil people?

 

[Guest guest]

Dalits are Aryans then? If yes, why are they backward?

If no what are they?

 

So do we have Aryan Brahmana, Dravidian Brahmana, Aryan Dalit, Dravidian Dalit etc?

 

[Guest guest]

They made the indians slaves by bringing laws, the truth is the true inhabitants of india are so called shurdras.

And brahmans are the aryans.

Aryans brought the laws to enslave the minds of the inhabitants of india, that is how thecaste system came about.