Narayana the Supreme Personality of Godhead

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

 

May be God is capable of simultaneous multitasking etc.....

 

Every spark is itself complete. Remember the SRUTI

 

Om purnamadah purnamidam purnat purnamudacyate |

purnasya purnamadaya purnamevavasisyate |

 

That is complete, this too is complete; A complete thing has evolved out of the other complete thing; and yet Even taking a complete thing out of the complete, what remains is also complete.

[Guest guest]

 

so the highest conception is that everything is under the direction of the supreme lord,

seeing that way, Krishna says, you see like a true sage, and attain peace.

 

Caitanya, Madhva, Ramanuja, jerry seinfeld,

the gas station attendent, your pet dog mr. wiggles, all are acting under the supervision

of God.

 

to say that this person or that person is behind this or that is all relative, the higher reality

is that all is going on to plan.

 

so Caitanya ,Rupa, Sanatana, Jiva, Narottama

das, all acting under the direction of one single plan,and planner, that is the origin of Gaudiya thought, God , as god is the origin of all thought.

 

any other conception is relative to that,

the absolute level, so the question as to the origins of Gaudiya siddhanta as an organized sampradaya is beside the point, the only point

that is important on the absolute level

is whether or not you appreciate it,

all religions and philosophies are in God's

hands, what you accept, that also, God's hands,

As you progress in your realization of God

you must leave behind your previous earlier

understanding, the child grows up and

no longer needs to ask his mother for permission to cross the street.

 

so spiritual life is like that, the higher plane is beyond our understanding, that is the nature of the higher plane, if we actually understood it,we would be experiencing it,

because you are not experiencing it,

that higher reality is not yet within our grasp ,within our reach.

 

that is Caitanya's mission,to give that thing,

the unreachable , the thing that must come down for you to appreciate, to your level, the highest

aspect of the divine consciousness is given in that way, it is personal and confidential to all involved , not seen except by those to whom it is shown.

 

[ May 07, 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: shiva ]

[Guest guest]

Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 4 text 8

 

paritranaya sadhunam

vinasaya ca duskrtam

dharmsamsthapanarthaya

sambhavami yuge yuge

 

Based on your logic and consistence in scriptural interpretations.

 

The Krsna who declared “sambhavami yuge yuge” is different from the Bhagavata’s “Krsna tu bhagavan svayam”.

This Krsna, who says He will incarnate millennium after millennium “is connected to the verb mridayanti” and there an “expansions and pleniary portions of Vishnu Purusha”

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

The Krsna who declared “sambhavami yuge yuge” is different from the Bhagavata’s “Krsna tu bhagavan svayam”.

 

 

Krishna declares Himself to be the source of incarnations in the Gita verse mentioned above. Krishna, being the source of the Vishnu Purusha is the source of all incarnations, thus any incarnation that occurs is an incarnation of Lord Krishna. sambhavami yuge yuge, "I incarnate in every age". Krishna does not personally incarnate in other yugas, but being the source of all incarnations, it is gramatically correct for Him to say, "I incarnate".

 

 

This Krsna, who says He will incarnate millennium after millennium “is connected to the verb mridayanti” and there an “expansions and pleniary portions of Vishnu Purusha”.

 

 

Which is why the words "krishnas tu" are used and why Krishna is mentioned particularly distinct from the entire list of these incarnations. All these incarnations are are amshas of the Vishnu Purusha (ete camsha-kalah pumsah), but Krishna is distinct and not an amsha of the Vishnu Purusha (krishnas tu bhagavan svayam). Krishna is included in the word "ete" (all these incarnations), but then He is singled out - "with the exception of Krishna" - krishnas tu. Whereas the other incarnations are identified as Vishnu Purusha amsha and kala, Krishna is identified with the words "svayam bhagavan".

[Guest guest]

1) You have agreed that its gramatically correct for Krsna to say I incarnate.

2) Bhagavad Gita is a higher authority than Bhagavatam

 

Based on the above, Krsna indentification with the amsas, nullifies the bhagavata statement “ete camasa kala pumsah’

 

Supporting reasons

 

1) The purpose of a periodical avatara

 

This is explained fully in the Gita (Bhagavad Gita, chapter 4, text 6-8)

 

a) protection of the righteous

b) elimination of the wicked

c) re-establishment of Dharma

d) bestowing Grace

 

The above conditions were full filled by Krsna‘s descent; therefore He is an avatara of Parabrahman.

 

Bhagavata Purana also affirms Krsna as an avatara of Visnu

 

(SB), 10th canto chapter 1, text 2 – Prabhupada’s translation

 

yados ca dharma-silasya

nitaram muni sattama

tatramsenavatirnasya

visnor viryani samsa nah

 

O best of the munis, you also described the descendents of Yadu who are very pious and strictly adherent to religious principles. Now if you will, kindly describe the wonderful, glorious activities of Lord Visnu, (or Krsna) who appeared in that Yadu dynasty with Baladeva, His plenary expansion.

 

Note - Prabhupada has translated amsena as Baladeva , later in his purport he also mentions another meaning to amsena – i.e the great muni can only describe Krsna partially /images/graemlins/confused.gif.

 

SB, 12th Canto Chapter 12 text 2-3

 

Suta uvaca

 

Etad vah kathitam vipra visnos caritam adhutam

Bhavadhir yad aham prsto anarnam purusocitam

 

Atra sankititah saksat sarva paap haro harih

Narayanao hrsikeso bhagavan satvatam patih

 

O learned Ones in reply to your questions about what constitutes the topic most suited to mankind, I have narrated to you this account o the excellence and pastimes of Visnu

 

In this text ( Srimad Bhagavatam) is extolled Narayana , the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who erases all sins, who is the Indweller of all beings, who is the power that activates the senses of all and who is the protector

 

2) Interpretation of the text

 

Ekamsena sthito jagat (BG, chapter 10 text 42)

 

I have stated earlier that the correct interpretation of

ekamsena is single fraction and not as that the Supreme Reality can broken up into fragments.

 

This cosmos (jagat) is but a partial revelation of the Parabrahman, this finds support in the Purusha Suktam (pado asya visva ..).

 

3) Avataras have no limitations

 

The question which need clarification is whether or not the Para Brahman in all His different incarnation functions with His infinite power, omniscience etc.

This arises because of controversies in scriptures such as Brahma samhita etc.

 

Depending on the functions performed in the various avataras such as Vamana, Rama or Krsna, certain qualities are manifested while the others qualities exist in latent form. In any case, whenever God incarnates there is absolutely no limitations on His svarupa, as in His original state as Supreme Being.

 

SDdasa

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Based on the above, Krsna indentification with the amsas, nullifies the bhagavata statement “ete camasa kala pumsah’

 

 

Krishna identifies Himself as the cause of the amshas, not as an amsha Himself. This is in line with the Bhagavatam's statement, ete camsha-kalah...

 

 

1) You have agreed that its gramatically correct for Krsna to say I incarnate.

2) Bhagavad Gita is a higher authority than Bhagavatam

 

 

 

Don't flop so quickly. Your argument was that the Bhagavatam verse in question spoke of Krishna as an amsha. You based this on a faulty understanding of grammar, thinking that "mridayanti" being plural meant that "svayam bhagavan" was being used to describe the plurality. Once it was shown that you made a gramatical mistake, you flopped away from your original stance and now try to say that the Bhagavatam isn't as authoritative as Gita and therefore irrelevant as evidence.

 

Rather than trying to find what is the highest truth in a span of three months, while trying to step on any other perceived "lower truth", why not just engage in simple service and glorification of Sriman Narayana?

[Guest guest]

ete camas-kalah pumsah

krsnas tu bhagavan svayam

indrari-vyakulam lokam

mrdayanti yuge yuge

 

All of the above mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Krsna is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheist. The Lord incarnates to protect the theist.

 

As mrdayanti refers to “ete”, then why was - The Lord incarnates added.

 

The statement “Krsna tu bhagaam svayam” is interposed between ete and mrdayanti. Given the presence of the interposition, to claim that it does not include Krsna is inappropriate. As the translation has to take into account, the proximity and propriety of the subject matter. The correct translation is that all the avatars (including Krsna) are of the same God and not Krsna alone is the original God. This is supported by SB, canto 1, chapter 3 text 23 i.e Krsna is mentioned as the 20th incarnation of Visnu.

 

Ekonavimse vimsatime

Vrsnisu prapya

Janmanirama- krsnav ti bhuvo

Bhagavan aharad bharam

[Narayanidd]

My dear spirit souls,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

 

eSa vai bhagavAn sAkSAd

Adyo nArAyaNaH pumAn

mohanyan mAyayA lokaM

gUDhaS carati vRSNiSu

 

This Sri Krsna is no other than the inconceivable, original Personality of Godhead. He is the first Narayana, the supreme enjoyer. But He is moving amongst the descendants of King Vrsni just like one of us, and He is bewildering us with His self-created energy.

 

Purport: "...The authorities speak, and the people in general believe them. But in the case of Vedic truths, they have been taught not to believe. Even if they accept them they give a different interpretation. Each and every man wants a direct perception of Vedic knowledge, but foolishly they deny it. This means that the misguided man can believe one authority, the scientist, but will reject the authority of the Vedas. The result is that people have degenerated.

"Here is an authority speaking about Sri Krsna as the Original Personality of Godhead and the first Narayana. Even such an impersonalist as Acarya Sankara has said in the begining of his commentation on the Bhagavad-gita that Narayana, the Personality of Godhead, is beyond the material creation (narayanah paro 'vyaktad, andam avyakta-sambhavam, andasyantas tv ime lokah, sapta dvipa ca medini-Bg.Bhasya of Sankara). The universe is one of the material creations, but Narayana is transcendental to such material paraphernalia.

"Bhismadeva is one of the twelve mahajanas who know the principles of Vedic knowledge. His confirmation of Lord Sri Krsna's being the original personality of Godhead is also corroborated by the impersonalist Sankara. All other acaryas have also confirmed this statement, and thus there is no chance of not accepting Lord Krsna as the original Personality of Godhead. Bhismadeva says that He is the first Narayana. In the spiritual world (Vaikuntha) there are unlimited Narayanas, who are all the same Personality of Godhead and are considered to be plenary expansions of the original Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna. The first form of the Lord Sri Krsna first expands Himself as the form of Baladeva, and Baladeva expands in so many other forms, such as Sankarsana, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Vasudeva, Narayana, Purusa, Rama and Nrsimha. All these expansions are one and the same visnu-tattva, and Sri Krsna is the original source of all plenary expansions. He is therefore the direct Personality of Godhead. He is the creator of the material world, and He is the predominating deity known as Narayana in all the Vaikuntha planets. Therefore, His movements amongst human beings are another sort of bewilderment. The Lord therefore says in the Bhagavad-gita that foolish persons consider Him to be one of the human beings without knowing the intracacies of His movements.

" The bewilderment regarding Sri Krsna is due to the action of His two-fold internal and external energies upon the third one called marginal energy. The living entities are expansions of His marginal energy, and thus they are sometimes bewildered by the internal energy and sometimes by the external energy. By internal energetic bewilderment, Sri Krsna expands Himself into unlimited numders of Narayanas and exchanges or accepts transcendental loving service from the living entities in the transcendental world. And by His external energetic expansions, He incarnates Himself in the material world amongst men, animals or demigods to reestablish His forgotten relation with the living entities in different species of life. Great authorities like Bhisma, however, escape His bewilderment by the mercy of the Lord."

 

Your servant,

Narayani d.d.

[gHari]

These are the arguments as presented by Srila Krsnadas Kaviraja with some comments by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami:<blockquote><center>vadanti tat tattva-vidas

tattvaM yaj jJAnam advayam

brahmeti paramAtmeti

bhagavAn iti zabdyate</center>

"Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth say that it is nondual knowledge and is called impersonal Brahman, the localized ParamAtmA and the Personality of Godhead."<blockquote>This text is from SrImad-BhAgavatam (1.2.11).</blockquote>My dear brothers, kindly listen to the explanation of this verse and consider its meaning: the one original entity is known in His three different features.

 

Lord KRSNa Himself is the one undivided Absolute Truth, the ultimate reality. He manifests Himself in three features--as Brahman, ParamAtmA and BhagavAn.<blockquote>In the verse from SrImad-BhAgavatam cited above (BhAg. 1.2.11), the principal word, bhagavAn, indicates the Personality of Godhead, and Brahman and ParamAtmA are concomitants deduced from the Absolute Personality, as a government and its ministers are deductions from the supreme executive head. In other words, the principal truth is exhibited in three different phases. The Absolute Truth, the Personality of Godhead SrI KRSNa (BhagavAn), is also known as Brahman and ParamAtmA, although all these features are identical.

</blockquote>The import of this verse has stopped you from arguing. Now listen to another verse of SrImad-BhAgavatam.

 

<center>ete cAMza-kalAH puMsaH

kRSNas tu bhagavAn svayam

indrAri-vyAkulaM lokaM

mRDayanti yuge yuge

</center>

SYNONYMS

ete--these; ca--and; aMza--plenary portions; kalAH--parts of plenary portions; puMsaH--of the puruSa-avatAras; kRSNaH--Lord KRSNa; tu--but; bhagavAn--the Supreme Personality of Godhead; svayam--Himself; indra-ari--the enemies of Lord Indra; vyAkulam--full of; lokam--the world; mRDayanti--make happy; yuge yuge--at the right time in each age.

 

"All these incarnations of Godhead are either plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions of the puruSa-avatAras. But KRSNa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. In every age He protects the world through His different features when the world is disturbed by the enemies of Indra."<blockquote>This statement of SrImad-BhAgavatam (1.3.28) definitely negates the concept that SrI KRSNa is an avatAra of ViSNu or NArAyaNa. Lord SrI KRSNa is the original Personality of Godhead, the supreme cause of all causes. This verse clearly indicates that incarnations of the Personality of Godhead such as SrI RAma, NRsiMha and VarAha all undoubtedly belong to the ViSNu group, but all of Them are either plenary portions or portions of plenary portions of the original Personality of Godhead, Lord SrI KRSNa.</blockquote>The BhAgavatam describes the symptoms and deeds of the incarnations in general and counts SrI KRSNa among them.

 

This made SUta GosvAmI greatly apprehensive. Therefore he distinguished each incarnation by its specific symptoms.

 

All the incarnations of Godhead are plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions of the puruSa-avatAras, but the primeval Lord is SrI KRSNa. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the fountainhead of all incarnations.

 

An opponent may say, "This is your interpretation, but actually the Supreme Lord is NArAyaNa, who is in the transcendental realm.

 

"He [NArAyaNa] incarnates as Lord KRSNa. This is the meaning of the verse as I see it. There is no need for further consideration."

 

To such a misguided interpreter we may reply, "Why should you suggest such fallacious logic? An interpretation is never accepted as evidence if it opposes the principles of scripture.

 

"‘One should not state a predicate before its subject, for it cannot thus stand without proper support.'<blockquote>This rhetorical rule appears in the EkAdazI-tattva, Thirteenth Canto, in connection with the metaphorical use of words. An unknown object should not be put before the known subject because the object has no meaning if the subject is not first given.</blockquote>"If I do not state a subject, I do not state a predicate. First I speak the former and then I speak the latter.

 

"The predicate of a sentence is what is unknown to the reader, whereas the subject is what is known to him.

 

"For example, we may say, ‘This vipra is a greatly learned man.' In this sentence, the vipra is the subject, and the predicate is his erudition.

 

"The man's being a vipra is known, but his erudition is unknown. Therefore the person is identified first and his erudition later.

 

"In the same way, all these incarnations were known, but whose incarnations they are was unknown.

 

"First the word ‘ete' [‘these'] establishes the subject [the incarnations]. Then ‘plenary portions of the puruSa-avatAras' follows as the predicate.

 

"In the same way, when KRSNa was first counted among the incarnations, specific knowledge about Him was still unknown.

 

"Therefore first the word ‘kRSNa' appears as the subject, followed by the predicate, describing Him as the original Personality of Godhead.

 

"This establishes that SrI KRSNa is the original Personality of Godhead. The original Personality of Godhead is therefore necessarily KRSNa.

 

"Had KRSNa been the plenary portion and NArAyaNa the primeval Lord, the statement of SUta GosvAmI would have been reversed.

 

"Thus he would have said, ‘NArAyaNa, the source of all incarnations, is the original Personality of Godhead. He has appeared as SrI KRSNa.'

 

"Mistakes, illusions, cheating and defective perception do not occur in the sayings of the authoritative sages.<blockquote>SrImad-BhAgavatam has listed the avatAras, the plenary expansions of the puruSa, and Lord KRSNa appears among them. But the BhAgavatam further explains Lord KRSNa's specific position as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Since Lord KRSNa is the original Personality of Godhead, reason and argument establish that His position is always supreme.

 

Had KRSNa been a plenary expansion of NArAyaNa, the original verse would have been differently composed; indeed, its order would have been reversed. But there cannot be mistakes, illusion, cheating or imperfect perception in the words of liberated sages. Therefore there is no mistake in this statement that Lord KRSNa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Sanskrit statements of SrImad-BhAgavatam are all transcendental sounds. SrIla VyAsadeva revealed these statements after perfect realization, and therefore they are perfect, for liberated sages like VyAsadeva never commit errors in their rhetorical arrangements. Unless one accepts this fact, there is no use in trying to obtain help from the revealed scriptures.

 

Bhrama refers to false knowledge or mistakes, such as accepting a rope as a snake or an oyster shell as gold. PramAda refers to inattention or misunderstanding of reality, and vipralipsA is the cheating propensity. KaraNApATava refers to imperfectness of the material senses. There are many examples of such imperfection. The eyes cannot see that which is very distant or very small. One cannot even see his own eyelid, which is the closest thing to his eye, and if one is disturbed by a disease like jaundice, he sees everything to be yellow. Similarly, the ears cannot hear distant sounds. Since the Personality of Godhead and His plenary portions and self-realized devotees are all transcendentally situated, they cannot be misled by such deficiencies.</blockquote>"You say something contradictory and become angry when this is pointed out. Your explanation has the defect of a misplaced object. This is an unconsidered adjustment.

 

"Only the Personality of Godhead, the source of all other Divinities, is eligible to be designated svayaM bhagavAn, or the primeval Lord.

 

"When from one candle many others are lit, I consider that one the original.<blockquote>The Brahma-saMhitA, Chapter Five, verse 46, states that the viSNu-tattva, or the principle of the Absolute Personality of Godhead, is like a lamp because the expansions equal their origin in all respects. A burning lamp can light innumerable other lamps, and although they will not be inferior, still the lamp from which the others are lit must be considered the original. Similarly, the Supreme Personality of Godhead expands Himself in the plenary forms of the viSNu-tattva, and although they are equally powerful, the original powerful Personality of Godhead is considered the source. This analogy also explains the appearance of qualitative incarnations like Lord Siva and Lord BrahmA. According to SrIla JIva GosvAmI, zambhos tu tamo-'dhiSThAnatvAt kajjalamaya-sUkSma-dIpa-zikhA-sthAnIyasya na tathA sAmyam: "The zambhu-tattva, or the principle of Lord Siva, is like a lamp covered with carbon because of his being in charge of the mode of ignorance. The illumination from such a lamp is very minute. Therefore the power of Lord Siva cannot compare to that of the ViSNu principle."</blockquote>"KRSNa, in the same way, is the cause of all causes and all incarnations. Please hear another verse to defeat all misinterpretations.

 

<center>atra sargo visargaz ca

sthAnaM poSaNam UtayaH

manvantarezAnukathA

nirodho muktir AzrayaH

dazamasya vizuddhy-arthaM

navAnAm iha lakSaNam

varNayanti mahAtmAnaH

zrutenArthena cAJjasA

</center>

atra--in SrImad-BhAgavatam; sargaH--the creation of the ingredients of the universe; visargaH--the creations of BrahmA; ca--and; sthAnam--the maintenance of the creation; poSaNam--the favoring of the Lord's devotees; UtayaH--impetuses for activity; manu-antara--prescribed duties given by the Manus; Iza-anukathAH--a description of the incarnations of the Lord; nirodhaH--the winding up of creation; muktiH--liberation; AzrayaH--the ultimate shelter, the Supreme Personality of Godhead; dazamasya--of the tenth (the Azraya); vizuddhi-artham--for the purpose of perfect knowledge; navAnAm--of the nine; iha--here; lakSaNam--the nature; varNayanti--describe; mahA-AtmAnaH--the great souls; zrutena--by prayer; arthena--by explanation; ca--and; aJjasA--direct.

 

"‘Here [in SrImad-BhAgavatam] ten subjects are described: (1) the creation of the ingredients of the cosmos, (2) the creations of BrahmA, (3) the maintenance of the creation, (4) special favor given to the faithful, (5) impetuses for activity, (6) prescribed duties for law-abiding men, (7) a description of the incarnations of the Lord, (8) the winding up of the creation, (9) liberation from gross and subtle material existence, and (10) the ultimate shelter, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The tenth item is the shelter of all the others. To distinguish this ultimate shelter from the other nine subjects, the mahAjanas have described these nine, directly or indirectly, through prayers or direct explanations.'<blockquote>These verses from SrImad-BhAgavatam (2.10.1–2) list the ten subject matters dealt with in the text of the BhAgavatam. Of these, the tenth is the substance, and the other nine are categories derived from the substance. These ten subjects are listed as follows:

(1) Sarga: the first creation by ViSNu, the bringing forth of the five gross material elements, the five objects of sense perception, the ten senses, the mind, the intelligence, the false ego and the total material energy, or universal form.

(2) Visarga: the secondary creation, or the work of BrahmA in producing the moving and unmoving bodies in the universe (brahmANDa).

(3) SthAna: the maintenance of the universe by the Personality of Godhead, ViSNu. ViSNu's function is more important and His glory greater than BrahmA's and Lord Siva's, for although BrahmA is the creator and Lord Siva the destroyer, ViSNu is the maintainer.

(4) PoSaNa: special care and protection for devotees by the Lord. As a king maintains his kingdom and subjects but nevertheless gives special attention to the members of his family, so the Personality of Godhead gives special care to His devotees who are souls completely surrendered to Him.

(5) Uti: the urge for creation, or initiative power, that is the cause of all inventions, according to the necessities of time, space and objects.

(6) Manv-antara: the periods controlled by the Manus, who teach regulative principles for living beings who desire to achieve perfection in human life. The rules of Manu, as described in the Manu-saMhitA, guide the way to such perfection.

(7) IzAnukathA: scriptural information regarding the Personality of Godhead, His incarnations on earth and the activities of His devotees. Scriptures dealing with these subjects are essential for progressive human life.

(8) Nirodha: the winding up of all energies employed in creation. Such potencies are emanations from the Personality of Godhead who eternally lies in the KAraNa Ocean. The cosmic creations, manifested with His breath, are again dissolved in due course.

(9) Mukti: liberation of the conditioned souls encaged by the gross and subtle coverings of body and mind. When freed from all material affection, the soul, giving up the gross and subtle material bodies, can attain the spiritual sky in his original spiritual body and engage in transcendental loving service to the Lord in VaikuNThaloka or KRSNaloka. When the soul is situated in his original constitutional position of existence, he is said to be liberated. It is possible to engage in transcendental loving service to the Lord and become jIvan-mukta, a liberated soul, even while in the material body.

(10) Azraya: the Transcendence, the summum bonum, from whom everything emanates, upon whom everything rests, and in whom everything merges after annihilation. He is the source and support of all. The Azraya is also called the Supreme Brahman, as in the VedAnta-sUtra (athAto brahma jijJAsA, janmAdy asya yataH [sB 1.1.1]). SrImad-BhAgavatam especially describes this Supreme Brahman as the Azraya. SrI KRSNa is this Azraya, and therefore the greatest necessity of life is to study the science of KRSNa.

 

SrImad-BhAgavatam accepts SrI KRSNa as the shelter of all manifestations because Lord KRSNa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the ultimate source of everything, the supreme goal of all.

 

Two different principles are to be considered herein--namely Azraya, the object providing shelter, and Azrita, the dependents requiring shelter. The Azrita exist under the original principle, the Azraya. The first nine categories, described in the first nine cantos of SrImad-BhAgavatam, from creation to liberation--including the puruSa-avatAras, the incarnations, the marginal energy, or living entities, and the external energy, or material world--are all Azrita. The prayers of SrImad-BhAgavatam, however, aim for the Azraya-tattva, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, SrI KRSNa. The great souls expert in describing SrImad-BhAgavatam have very diligently delineated the other nine categories, sometimes by direct narrations and sometimes by indirect narrations such as stories. The real purpose of doing this is to know perfectly the Absolute Transcendence, SrI KRSNa, for the entire creation, both material and spiritual, rests on the body of SrI KRSNa.</blockquote>"To know distinctly the ultimate shelter of everything that be, I have described the other nine categories. The cause for the appearance of these nine is rightly called their shelter.

 

"The Personality of Godhead SrI KRSNa is the shelter and abode of everything. All the universes rest in His body.

 

"‘The Tenth Canto of SrImad-BhAgavatam reveals the tenth object, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the shelter of all surrendered souls. He is known as SrI KRSNa, and He is the ultimate source of all the universes. Let me offer my obeisances unto Him.'<blockquote>This quotation comes from SrIdhara SvAmI's commentary on the first verse of the Tenth Canto, Chapter One, of SrImad-BhAgavatam.</blockquote>"One who knows the real feature of SrI KRSNa and His three different energies cannot remain ignorant about Him.<blockquote>SrIla JIva GosvAmI states in his Bhagavat-sandarbha (16) that by His potencies, which act in natural sequences beyond the scope of the speculative human mind, the Supreme Transcendence, the summum bonum, eternally and simultaneously exists in four transcendental features: His personality, His impersonal effulgence, particles of His potency (the living beings), and the principal cause of all causes. The Supreme Whole is compared to the sun, which also exists in four features, namely the personality of the sun-god, the glare of his glowing sphere, the sun rays inside the sun planet, and the sun's reflections in many other objects. The ambition to corroborate the existence of the transcendental Absolute Truth by limited conjectural endeavors cannot be fulfilled, because He is beyond the scope of our limited speculative minds. In an honest search for truth, we must admit that His powers are inconceivable to our tiny brains. The exploration of space has demanded the work of the greatest scientists of the world, yet there are countless problems regarding even fundamental knowledge of the material creation that bewilder scientists who confront them. Such material knowledge is far removed from the spiritual nature, and therefore the acts and arrangements of the Absolute Truth are, beyond all doubts, inconceivable.

 

The primary potencies of the Absolute Truth are mentioned to be three: internal, external and marginal. By the acts of His internal potency, the Personality of Godhead in His original form exhibits the spiritual cosmic manifestations known as the VaikuNThalokas, which exist eternally, even after the destruction of the material cosmic manifestation. By His marginal potency the Lord expands Himself as living beings who are part of Him, just as the sun distributes its rays in all directions. By His external potency the Lord manifests the material creation, just as the sun with its rays creates fog. The material creation is but a perverse reflection of the eternal VaikuNTha nature.

 

These three energies of the Absolute Truth are also described in the ViSNu PurANa, where it is said that the living being is equal in quality to the internal potency, whereas the external potency is indirectly controlled by the chief cause of all causes. MAyA, the illusory energy, misleads a living being as fog misleads a pedestrian by blocking off the light of the sun. Although the potency of mAyA is inferior in quality to the marginal potency, which consists of the living beings, who are part and parcel of the Lord, it nevertheless has the power to control the living beings, just as fog can block the actions of a certain portion of the sun's rays although it cannot cover the sun. The living beings covered by the illusory energy evolve in different species of life, with bodies ranging from that of an insignificant ant to that of BrahmA, the constructor of the cosmos. The pradhAna, the chief cause of all causes in the impersonal vision, is none other than the Supreme Lord, whom one can see face to face in the

internal potency. He takes the material all-pervasive form by His inconceivable power. Although all three potencies--namely internal, external and marginal--are essentially one in the ultimate issue, they are different in action, like electric energy, which can produce both cold and heat under different conditions. The external and marginal potencies are so called under various conditions, but in the original, internal potencies there are no such conditions, nor is it possible for the conditions of the external potency to exist in the marginal, or vice versa. One who is able to understand the intricacies of all these energies of the Supreme Lord can no longer remain an empiric impersonalist under the influence of a poor fund of knowledge.</blockquote></blockquote>

[Guest guest]

 

parama isvara krsna----svayam bhagavan

sarva-avatari, sarva-karana-pradhana

 

Ramananda Raya then began to speak on krsna-tattva. "Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead," he said. "He is personally the original Godhead, the source of all avataras and the cause of all causes.

 

 

ananta vaikuntha, ara ananta avatara

ananta brahmanda ihan,----sabara adhara

 

"There are innumerable Vaikuntha planets as well as innumerable incarnations. In the material world also there are innumerable universes, and Krsna is the supreme resting place for all of them.

 

sac-cid-ananda-tanu, vrajendra-nandana

sarvaisvarya-sarvasakti-sarvarasa-purna

 

"The transcendental body of Sri Krsna is eternal and full of bliss and knowledge. He is the son of Nanda Maharaja. He is full of all opulences and potencies, as well as all spiritual mellows.

 

isvarah paramah krsnah

sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah

anadir adir govindah

sarva-karana-karanam

 

" 'Krsna, who is known as Govinda, is the supreme controller. He has an eternal, blissful, spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin, for He is the prime cause of all causes.'

 

vrndavane 'aprakrta navina madana'

kama-gayatri kama-bije yanra upasana

 

"In the spiritual realm of Vrndavana, Krsna is the spiritual ever-fresh Cupid. He is worshiped by the chanting of the Kama-gayatri mantra with the spiritual seed klim.

 

 

This Vrndavana is described in the Brahma-samhita (5.56) in this way:

 

sriyah kantah kantah parama-purusah kalpa-taravo

druma bhumis cintamani-gana-mayi toyam amrtam

katha ganam natyam gamanam api vamsi priya-sakhi

cid-anandam jyotih param api tad asvadyam api ca

 

sa yatra ksirabdhih sravati surabhibhyas ca su-mahan

nimesardhakhyo va vrajati na hi yatrapi samayah

bhaje svetadvipam tam aham iha golokam iti yam

vidantas te santah ksiti-virala-carah katipaye

 

The spiritual realm of Vrndavana is always spiritual. The goddess of fortune and the gopis are always present there. They are Krsna's beloveds, and all of them are as spiritual as Krsna. In Vrndavana, Krsna is the Supreme Person and is the husband of all the gopis and the goddess of fortune. The trees in Vrndavana are wish-fulfilling trees. The land is made of touchstone, and the water is nectar. Words are musical vibrations, and all movements are dancing. The flute is the Lord's constant companion. The planet Goloka Vrndavana is self-luminous like the sun and is full of spiritual bliss. The perfection of life lies in tasting that spiritual existence; therefore everyone should cultivate its knowledge. In Vrndavana, spiritual cows are always supplying spiritual milk. Not a single moment is wasted there--in other words, there is no past, present or future. Not a single particle of time is wasted. Within this material universe, the devotees worship that transcendental abode as Goloka Vrndavana. Lord Brahma himself said, "Let me worship that spiritual land where Krsna is present."

 

purusa, yosit, kiba sthavara-jangama

sarva-cittakarsaka, saksat manmatha-madana

 

"The very name Krsna means that He attracts even Cupid. He is therefore attractive to everyone--male and female, moving and inert living entities. Indeed, Krsna is known as the all-attractive one.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Who is god? how many of them seen him?

[krishna_s]

SDdasa appears to be repeating a common misinterpretation of SB 1.3.28 held by other South Indian Vaishnavas. But any 3rd party (i.e. neutral and unbiased in this regard) translation of the Bhaagavata translates the "ete-chaamsha" verse exactly as the Gaudiiyas have done - with Krishna being referred to as the svayam bhagavaan, in contrast to the others who are plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions. This is the straightforward understanding of the verse, with alternate interpretations requiring a certain degree of suspension of disbelief in order to accept.

 

This point of view, where Krishna is equated with the svayam bhagavaan, or original form of the Lord, also has support in shruti. For example, the Krishna Upanishad:

 

goparuupo hariH saakShaan maayaavigrahadhaaraNaH durbodha.m kuhaka.m tasya maayayaa mohita.m jagat || KrU 1.10 ||

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead appeared in His original form as a cowherd boy. Cheated and bewildered by His illusory potency, the world could not understand His true identity (kR^iShNa upaniShad 1.10).

 

Also in the Gopaala-taapanii Upanishad, we have the following:

 

sa hovaachaabjayonir yo'vataaraaNaa.m madhye shreShTho'vataaraH ko bhavati yena lokaas tuShTaa devaas tuShTaa bhavanti ya.m smR^itvaa muktaa asmaat sa.msaaraat bhavanti katha.m vaasyaavataarasya brahmataa bhavati || GTU 2.33-34 ||

 

Brahmaa said: Among Your many incarnations, which is the best, the one that makes humans and demigods happy, the one that, remembering Him, they become liberated from repeated birth and death? Why is this incarnation the best (gopaala-taapanii upaniShad 2.33-34)?

 

The answers which follow Lord Brahmaa's question are in regards to the Lord's manifestation as Krishna. Here are a few highlights:

 

vishvaruupa.m para.m jyotiH svaruupa.m rupavarjitam hR^idaa maa.m sa.msmaran brahman matpada.m yaati nishchitam || GTU 2.55 ||

 

O Brahmaa, he who with all his heart mediates on Me, whose form is the resting place of all forms, whose form is supremely powerful and splendid, whose form is wonderful, and who has no material form, goes to My abode. Of this there is no doubt (gopaala-taapani upaniShad 2.55).

 

In the above, the context is Krishna, as it is Gopaala-Purii which has just been discussed along with the Lord's manifestation there. Vishvanaatha Chakravarti Thakur says that "vishva-ruupam" means "source of all forms," i.e. source of all other Vishnu-tattvas. The universal form is not the subject here, because the context does not support such an interpretation.

 

tasyaam adhiShThitaH kR^iShNaruupii puujyas tvayaa sadaa || GTU 2.57 ||

 

You should always worship Me as Krishna in Mathuraa (gopaala-taapanii upanishad 2.57).

 

o.m gopaalaaya nijaruupaaya o.m tat sad bhuur bhuvaH svas tasmai vai namo namaH || GTU 2.107 ||

 

Om. Obeisances to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, whose original form is that of a cowherd boy. Om tat sat. Bhuur Bhuvah and Svah. Obeisances, obeisances to Him (gopaala-taapanii upanishad 2.107).

 

Thus, the shaastras agree that while all forms of Vishnu are qualitatively and quantitatively the same, nevertheless it is Krishna who is the svayam bhagavaan - the full manifestation of the Lord.

 

 

regards,

 

- K

[Guest guest]

When the Supreme Godhead (by whatever name one would call Him) incarnates as Krishna and in that avatar Krishna says,

"sambhavaami yuge yuge".. why not take it that it is only the Supreme Godhead who is declaring through Krishna (the physical medium in the particualr context) that he takes the various incarnations whenever the need arises and why interpret it to say that it is Krishna who says that he is incarnating as the other avatars also. As the Supreme Godhead is not physically present at the scene he speaks through Krishna instead of being an Asareeri.

 

In a drama when an actor X (Krishna) plays the role of a king Y (Supreme Godhead) and says something, it may be X's voice but what is said is attributed to Y. Right?

[Guest guest]

"When the Supreme Godhead (by whatever name one would call Him) incarnates as Krishna and in that avatar Krishna says,

"sambhavaami yuge yuge".. why not take it that it is only the Supreme Godhead who is declaring through Krishna?"

 

because if there's some supreme beyond krishna and he wants to say something to us, he surely has the possibility to do it... otherwise what is this supremacy?

 

if krishna says he's the supreme.... let us trust in him, why speculate?

 

now i am writing a message in this forum, i... not another being trough me... very simple

[Guest guest]

"why not take it that it is only the Supreme Godhead who is declaring through Krishna"

 

?? Have you read Gita ?? mattah parataram nanyat ??