about guru nanak

[Guest guest]

for those interested, heres something swami prakashanand saraswati said about sikhism

 

http://encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org/articles/70_saints_acharyas.htm

"...The Sikh religion of Punjab was established with the advent of Guru Nanak who was born near Lahore (Punjab) in 1469. His son Srichand (1494 - c.1644) established the “Udeseen” sect which follows the religious guidelines of Sanatan Dharm. “Guru Granth Saheb” is the book of Sikh religion which is a collection of the sayings of Nanak and its other Sikh Masters. <font color="brown">Nanak talked about nirakar brahm but he never told the dry gyan; he stressed upon bhakti and gyan both, although his bhakti was not the real affectionate bhakti as described by the Vaishnav acharyas...</font color>"

[Guest guest]

while u discuss on this subject, Nanak dev and Chaitnaya Mahaprabhu are leading maha Kirtans in the spiritual world...

[Guest guest]

a peaceful exchange on spiritual themes by the devotees of the lord is also a kirtan

[maadhav]

sikhism is advaita in principle, with kshatriya dharma emphasised.

 

sikhism turned the hindu farmers of the very fertile land - pujnab - into warriors against the islam invaders and any one who does adharma.

 

a sikh guru had a direct vaishnav follower.

sikhs and sikh gurus are not vegetarians, but would respect vegetarians (hinduism allows kshatriyas to eat meat.)

 

guru nanak tried to settle hindu-muslim conflct by making sikhism, but it has failed to solve the conflict. now, if all the hindus or most of them or a large portion of them become true sikhs, then islam can easily be taken out of india.

 

sikhs do not recommend moorti pooja.

however, they do keep pictures of gurus.

 

they do not do rituals like the hindus.

 

taking advantage of indira gandhi's attack on amritsar temple, pakistan motivated some sikhs to go against the hindus, saying that indira is hindu and hindus do not want sikhs. unfortunately some sikhs believed pak, and still belive - more or less- the pakistanis. so they want a separate khalistan. they hate hindus. many of them are in cananda.

 

a small book - Sikh Gurus - by Duggal is a very good source for info.

 

it would be nice if it could be put on internet.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"You say that Krishna was Nand`s son, but whose son was Nand himself?"

This was written by Kabir Sahib and is in the SGGS.

"The hunter who shot Krishna in the foot - even he was liberated. this is also in the SGGS."

"The One Lord Krishna is the Divine Lord of all; He is the Divinity of the individual soul." GUru Angad Dev sucsessor of Guru Nanak.

I think that explains a lot. You shoul read what Narayana Maharaj wrote about Guru Nanak...

 

[Guest guest]

 

Bani Concerning Hinduism

 

 

 

 

Similarities

 

Reincarnation

Like Hinduism Sikhims believes in the transmigration of the soul. There are countless cycles of births and deaths. One only breaks this cycle when they achieve mukhti (merger with God)

Karma

Karma regulates the reincarnation and transmigration of the soul, Sikhism links Karma with the doctrine of Grace.

 

"Mortals obtain a human body as a result of good deeds but he reaches the gate ofsalvation with God's kind grace." (Guru Nanak, Japji)

 

Maya

The world is just an illusion and some get enchanted with this illusion and forget God

 

 

Differences

 

Sikhism rejects polytheism and accepts monotheism. Whereas Sikhism starts with one God and universalizes Him, Hinduism starts with many Gods and occasionally gives glimpses of 'One'.

"I do not accept Ganesha as important. I do not meditate on Krishna, neither on Vishnu. I do not hear them and do not recognize them. My love is with the Lotus feet of God. He is my protector, the Supreme Lord. I am dust of his Lotus feet." (Guru Gobind Singh, Krishna Avatar)

 

Authority of the Vedas and the belief that the truth revealed in them is absolute and that reading them one can realize perfection.

 

"I have read all the Vedas, but my mind's separation from God is not removed and the five demons of my house (body) are stilled not even for an instant." (Guru Arjan Dev, Ashtpadis, pg. 687)

 

Sikhism does not recognize any priestly class.

 

"Kabir, the Brahman may be the Guru of the world, but he is not the Guru of the saints. He rots to death in the perplexities of the four Vedas" (Bhagat Kabir, Salok, pg. 1377)

 

Rejection of the Ashrama Dharma theory of dividing man's life into four stages. Instead the Gurus emphasized living the householders life. Rejection of the Varna distinction of division of human society into higher and lower castes.

 

"There are four castes of the literates, warriors, cultivators and menials and the four stages of life. He who meditates on the Lord is the most distinguished amongst men." (Guru Ram Das, Gond, pg. 861)

 

"The Lord asks not mortals caste and birth, so find thou out the Lord's True Home (truth). That alone is man's caste and that his glory, as are the deeds which he does." (Guru Nanak, Parbhati, pg. 1330)

 

The Gurus rejected the Avtara theory of the incarnations of God. The Gurus not only exposed the mortality of these gods but used stories to illustrate moral values, such as 'pride leads to a fall' illustrated by the story of Harnakhash, untouchability becoming superior through devotion to God by Krishna stories and stories where Bhrahma, Vishnu and Shiva are shown to be ordinary mortals. The Gurus stressed that there is only one God and that these gods and goddeses were not true.

 

"In every age, the Lord creates the kings, who are sung of as His incarnations. Even they have not found His limits." (Guru Amar Das, Ashtpadis, pg. 423)

 

"Millions of incarnations of Vishnu and Shiv, with matted hair Desire Thee, O Kind Lord, with endless longing of their mind and body. Infinite and Inaccessible is Lord, the World Sustainer, and He is the Omnipresent wealthy Master. The gods, perfect persons, heavenly heralds and celestial singers contemplate on Thee. The greater gods and heavenly dancers utter Thine praises. Myrids of kings, gods and many super human beings remember the Lord and hail Him." (Guru Arjan Dev, Chhant, pg. 455)

 

Worship of idols and images.

 

"The blind ignorant ones stray in doubt and so deluded, deluded they pluck flowers for worship. They worship the lifeless stones and adore tombs. Their service all goes in vain." (Guru Ram Das, Malar, pg. 1264)

 

"They who say the stone is a god; in vain is their service. He who falls at the feet of the stone; vain goes his labour. My Lord ever speaks. The Lord gives gifts to all the living beings. The Lord is within, but the blind one knows not. Deluded by doubt, he is caught in a noose. The stone speaks not, nor gives anything. In vain are the ceremonies of the idolater, and fruitless his service." (Guru Arjan Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1160)

 

The Gita and Vedanta goal of a Mukt. Once he achieves salvation he does not live for the community. In Sikhism the Gurmukh achieving salvation lives to save others.

 

"Abandon lust, wrath, avarice and worldly love. Thus be rid of both birth and death. Distress and darkness shall depart from thy home, when, within thee, the Guru implants wisdom and lights the Divine lamp. He, who serves the Lord crosses the sea of life. Through the Guru, O slave Nanak, the entire world is saved." (Guru Arjan Dev, Gauri, pg. 241)

 

Belief that reading of the six Shastras and their mastery will bring salvation.

 

"The greatly voluminous Simirtis and Shastras stretch out the extension of worldly love. The fools read them, but know not their Lord. Some rare one knows Him by the Guru's grace. Of Himself the Creator does and makes others do. By means of the True Bani, He implants truth within the mortal." (Guru Amar Das, Maru, pg. 1053)

 

"Many Shashtras and many Simirtis have I seen and searched them all. Nanak, they equal not Lord God's invaluable Name." (Guru Arjan Dev, Gauri, pg. 265)

 

Rejection of Sanskrit or any language as being sacred.

 

 

[kripa_karo_radhe]

 

All of the devotees and servants of the Lord have the tilak, the ceremonial mark, applied to their foreheads at the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage.(page 733 guru ram das)

 

 

the following is from sri guru granth sahib page no.1165

 

<TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=ggs>ਕਹਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਇਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=subhead>kehath naamadhaeo eihu beechaar ||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=shlok>Says Naam Dayv, consider this:

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਇਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਉਤਰਹੁ ਪਾਰਿ ॥੪॥੨॥੮॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=subhead>ein bidhh santhahu outharahu paar ||4||2||8||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=shlok>O Saints, this is the way to cross over to the other side. ||4||2||8||

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਸੰਡਾ ਮਰਕਾ ਜਾਇ ਪੁਕਾਰੇ ॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=subhead>sanddaa marakaa jaae pukaarae ||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=shlok>Sanda and Marka went and complained to Harnaakhash,

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਪੜੈ ਨਹੀ ਹਮ ਹੀ ਪਚਿ ਹਾਰੇ ॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=subhead>parrai nehee ham hee pach haarae ||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=shlok>"Your son does not read his lessons. We are tired of trying to teach him.

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹੈ ਕਰ ਤਾਲ ਬਜਾਵੈ ਚਟੀਆ ਸਭੈ ਬਿਗਾਰੇ ॥੧॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=subhead>raam kehai kar thaal bajaavai chatteeaa sabhai bigaarae ||1||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=shlok>He chants the Lord's Name, clapping his hands to keep the beat; he has spoiled all the other students. ||1||

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਜਪਿਬੋ ਕਰੈ ॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=subhead>raam naamaa japibo karai ||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=shlok>He chants the Lord's Name,

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਹਿਰਦੈ ਹਰਿ ਜੀ ਕੋ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਧਰੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=subhead>hiradhai har jee ko simaran dhharai ||1|| rehaao ||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=shlok>and he has enshrined meditative remembrance of the Lord within his heart.""||1||Pause||

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਬਸੁਧਾ ਬਸਿ ਕੀਨੀ ਸਭ ਰਾਜੇ ਬਿਨਤੀ ਕਰੈ ਪਟਰਾਨੀ ॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=subhead>basudhhaa bas keenee sabh raajae binathee karai pattaraanee ||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=shlok>"Your father the king has conquered the whole world", said his mother the queen.

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਪੂਤੁ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦੁ ਕਹਿਆ ਨਹੀ ਮਾਨੈ ਤਿਨਿ ਤਉ ਅਉਰੈ ਠਾਨੀ ॥੨॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=subhead>pooth prehilaadh kehiaa nehee maanai thin tho aourai thaanee ||2||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=shlok>"O Prahlad my son, you do not obey him, so he has decided to deal with you in another way."||2||

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਦੁਸਟ ਸਭਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਮੰਤਰ ਉਪਾਇਆ ਕਰਸਹ ਅਉਧ ਘਨੇਰੀ ॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=subhead>dhusatt sabhaa mil manthar oupaaeiaa karaseh aoudhh ghanaeree ||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=shlok>The council of villians met and resolved to send Prahlaad into the life hereafter.

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਗਿਰਿ ਤਰ ਜਲ ਜੁਆਲਾ ਭੈ ਰਾਖਿਓ ਰਾਜਾ ਰਾਮਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਫੇਰੀ ॥੩॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=subhead>gir thar jal juaalaa bhai raakhiou raajaa raam maaeiaa faeree ||3||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=shlok>Prahlaad was thrown off a mountain, into the water, and into a fire, but the Sovereign Lord God saved him, by changing the laws of nature. ||3||

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਕਾਢਿ ਖੜਗੁ ਕਾਲੁ ਭੈ ਕੋਪਿਓ ਮੋਹਿ ਬਤਾਉ ਜੁ ਤੁਹਿ ਰਾਖੈ ॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=subhead>kaadt kharrag kaal bhai kopiou mohi bathaao j thuhi raakhai ||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=shlok>Harnaakhash thundered with rage and threatened to kill Prahlaad. ""Tell me, who can save you?""

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਪੀਤ ਪੀਤਾਂਬਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਧਣੀ ਥੰਭ ਮਾਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਖੈ ॥੪॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=subhead>peeth peethaanbar thribhavan dhhanee thhanbh maahi har bhaakhai ||4||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=shlok>Prahlaad answered, ""The Lord, the Master of the three worlds, is contained even in this pillar to which I am tied.""||4||

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਨਖਹ ਬਿਦਾਰਿਓ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਕੀਏ ਸਨਾਥਾ ॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=subhead>haranaakhas jin nakheh bidhaariou sur nar keeeae sanaathhaa ||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffecec"><TD class=shlok>The Lord who tore Harnaakhash apart with His nails proclaimed Himself the Lord of gods and men.

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=rmenuheader>ਕਹਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਹਮ ਨਰਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵਹ ਰਾਮੁ ਅਭੈ ਪਦ ਦਾਤਾ ॥੫॥੩॥੯॥

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=subhead>kehi naamadhaeo ham narehar dhhiaaveh raam abhai padh dhaathaa ||5||3||9||

</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#ffffec"><TD class=shlok>Says Naam Dayv, I meditate on the Lord, the Man-lion, the Giver of fearless dignity. ||5||3||9||</TD></TR>

ggsj nowhere written anything abt vedas and all

they said mere reading of scriptures and vedas will not lead to mukti and all

and even atone place in wadhans raag guru ji wriiten

 

"tere banke loen pyare dant risala"

u have beutiful eyes and wonderfull teeth"

"sohne nak jin lamde wala"

u have beutiful nose and long hairs

"krishna mala japo saheleo"

all my jiv atmas recite mala of krishna

[kripa_karo_radhe]

 

Bani Concerning Hinduism

 

 

 

 

Similarities

 

Reincarnation

Like Hinduism Sikhims believes in the transmigration of the soul. There are countless cycles of births and deaths. One only breaks this cycle when they achieve mukhti (merger with God)

Karma

Karma regulates the reincarnation and transmigration of the soul, Sikhism links Karma with the doctrine of Grace.

 

"Mortals obtain a human body as a result of good deeds but he reaches the gate ofsalvation with God's kind grace." (Guru Nanak, Japji)

 

Maya

The world is just an illusion and some get enchanted with this illusion and forget God

 

 

Differences

 

Sikhism rejects polytheism and accepts monotheism. Whereas Sikhism starts with one God and universalizes Him, Hinduism starts with many Gods and occasionally gives glimpses of 'One'.

"I do not accept Ganesha as important. I do not meditate on Krishna, neither on Vishnu. I do not hear them and do not recognize them. My love is with the Lotus feet of God. He is my protector, the Supreme Lord. I am dust of his Lotus feet." (Guru Gobind Singh, Krishna Avatar)

 

Authority of the Vedas and the belief that the truth revealed in them is absolute and that reading them one can realize perfection.

 

"I have read all the Vedas, but my mind's separation from God is not removed and the five demons of my house (body) are stilled not even for an instant." (Guru Arjan Dev, Ashtpadis, pg. 687)

 

Sikhism does not recognize any priestly class.

 

"Kabir, the Brahman may be the Guru of the world, but he is not the Guru of the saints. He rots to death in the perplexities of the four Vedas" (Bhagat Kabir, Salok, pg. 1377)

 

Rejection of the Ashrama Dharma theory of dividing man's life into four stages. Instead the Gurus emphasized living the householders life. Rejection of the Varna distinction of division of human society into higher and lower castes.

 

"There are four castes of the literates, warriors, cultivators and menials and the four stages of life. He who meditates on the Lord is the most distinguished amongst men." (Guru Ram Das, Gond, pg. 861)

 

"The Lord asks not mortals caste and birth, so find thou out the Lord's True Home (truth). That alone is man's caste and that his glory, as are the deeds which he does." (Guru Nanak, Parbhati, pg. 1330)

 

The Gurus rejected the Avtara theory of the incarnations of God. The Gurus not only exposed the mortality of these gods but used stories to illustrate moral values, such as 'pride leads to a fall' illustrated by the story of Harnakhash, untouchability becoming superior through devotion to God by Krishna stories and stories where Bhrahma, Vishnu and Shiva are shown to be ordinary mortals. The Gurus stressed that there is only one God and that these gods and goddeses were not true.

 

"In every age, the Lord creates the kings, who are sung of as His incarnations. Even they have not found His limits." (Guru Amar Das, Ashtpadis, pg. 423)

 

"Millions of incarnations of Vishnu and Shiv, with matted hair Desire Thee, O Kind Lord, with endless longing of their mind and body. Infinite and Inaccessible is Lord, the World Sustainer, and He is the Omnipresent wealthy Master. The gods, perfect persons, heavenly heralds and celestial singers contemplate on Thee. The greater gods and heavenly dancers utter Thine praises. Myrids of kings, gods and many super human beings remember the Lord and hail Him." (Guru Arjan Dev, Chhant, pg. 455)

 

Worship of idols and images.

 

"The blind ignorant ones stray in doubt and so deluded, deluded they pluck flowers for worship. They worship the lifeless stones and adore tombs. Their service all goes in vain." (Guru Ram Das, Malar, pg. 1264)

 

"They who say the stone is a god; in vain is their service. He who falls at the feet of the stone; vain goes his labour. My Lord ever speaks. The Lord gives gifts to all the living beings. The Lord is within, but the blind one knows not. Deluded by doubt, he is caught in a noose. The stone speaks not, nor gives anything. In vain are the ceremonies of the idolater, and fruitless his service." (Guru Arjan Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1160)

 

The Gita and Vedanta goal of a Mukt. Once he achieves salvation he does not live for the community. In Sikhism the Gurmukh achieving salvation lives to save others.

 

"Abandon lust, wrath, avarice and worldly love. Thus be rid of both birth and death. Distress and darkness shall depart from thy home, when, within thee, the Guru implants wisdom and lights the Divine lamp. He, who serves the Lord crosses the sea of life. Through the Guru, O slave Nanak, the entire world is saved." (Guru Arjan Dev, Gauri, pg. 241)

 

Belief that reading of the six Shastras and their mastery will bring salvation.

 

"The greatly voluminous Simirtis and Shastras stretch out the extension of worldly love. The fools read them, but know not their Lord. Some rare one knows Him by the Guru's grace. Of Himself the Creator does and makes others do. By means of the True Bani, He implants truth within the mortal." (Guru Amar Das, Maru, pg. 1053)

 

"Many Shashtras and many Simirtis have I seen and searched them all. Nanak, they equal not Lord God's invaluable Name." (Guru Arjan Dev, Gauri, pg. 265)

 

Rejection of Sanskrit or any language as being sacred.

 

abt many gods and all

hinduism stress on ananya bhakti

so skhs also.........

 

reading shastras at own is foolishness.........its prooved.....guru can only tell u whats bhakti....so sikhs also believe this

 

abt bhrahma,vishnu and shiv

 

tulsidas ji wrote

"vidhi hari shambhu nachaavanhaare"

 

means that bhrahma,vishnu and shiv are controlled by krishna or mahavishnu

 

so sikhs also say this

 

wheres difference........

guru gobind singh ji wrote

i dnt believe in ganesh ,krishna and vishnu

 

whereas

he has written 24 avtars of mahavishnu

and

one if his line are

 

"bin prem kaha brajnayak payo"

 

without love u cant attain brajnayak(krishna)

 

 

so conclusion is it is called "virodhi dharmo ka anushthaan"

in our vedas also its same

ved says that lord is formless and he also have form

same by sikh gurus.

 

god is virodhi dharmo ka anushthaan.

 

so only follow bhakti,bhakti and bhakti

thats what sikhism is and also hinduism.

 

arre guru nanak ji wriiten on first page og ggsj

"akaal moorat"

dekhiye yaha likha hai

"moorat" matlab with form

phir bhi yeh kehna ki sikhism only believes in formless

galat hoga

[mayaeng]

Will you KINDLY tell where following quotations are given? they are not given in chaitanya shikshamritam as you are mentioning below.

 

Kindly reply.

 

 

 

 

portugese version of bhaktivinods chaitanya shikshamritam

 

googles english translation: "...Our final conclusion is that Brahma-Jñana is considered pertaining to the fourth category of knowledge perverted on God. Sankaracharya, Astavakra, Dattatreya, Nanak, Kabir, Gorakhnatha, Shivanarayana etc. are considered the teachers of this category. The originary pure knowledge of the sprout of the knowledge The holy ghost is not this Adwaitavada..."

 

any1 have the english version?

 

 

as i understand sikhism, the sikh god is not krsna, ram, visnu or siva although these names are used by the sikh gurus as names of their god. when they use these names they refer to their one true formless god 'wahe guru'

 

here are some verses from the sikh gurus that are appearantly mayavad, sunyavad & offensive calling ram dust compared to the sikh god, saying krsna & the avatars were created by the sikh god, saying krsna & ram get their power from the sikh god, make fun of sankirtan devotees, & more -->

[sant]

Thank you g hari ji for your posts.

ive not read full.

[ranjeetmore]

 

Hare Krishna,

 

I have raed the part where Chaitnaya Mahaprabhu met nanak(founder of sikhism).

Sikhism clearly denies Vedas and does not accept Lord Krishna as GOD.Can anyone tell me whether nanak and Mahaprabhu had any debate on this issue.

Why was Mahaprabhu not able to convince nanak. I have read somewhere in sri guru granth that Lord Rama and Lord Krishna repented for calling himself as GOD when they died. Now this is a blasphemous statement that SGGS makes and is quite an insult.

 

Nanak said Sri Krsna wasn't God ??

 

He literally sang everywhere,"Sing the glories of the Name of Rama.Only this name will deliver you."

 

Nanak,Tulsidasa,Meera etc. do not exactly quote vedas but they are all perfect mahatmas who gave vedic knowledge through their simple poetry.

 

I'm not sure but Nanak can be traced to Nimbarka Sampradaya and so is Meera,Surdas from there.

 

Tulsidasa comes from Ramanandi Sampradaya,which was started by Ramananda(himself from Ramanuja sampradaya),when the stubborn Ramanujites refused to accept anyone except brahmanas.

All these great personalities are very closely inter-related.

 

It's a different issue that sikhs have completely strayed in order to establish their place as a religion.This always happens when material people take up the seat of their guru.

[sant]

WHAts this then

 

Condemnation of the concept in Hindu theology that God takes various incarnations

 

• ਕਿਤੇ ਕਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਉਪਾਏ, ਉਸਾਰੇ ਗੜੇ ਫਿਰ ਮੇਟੇ ਬਨਾਏ॥
  
• He hath Created millions of Krishnas like worms. He Created them, annihilated them, again created them, again destroyed them.

 

• ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ਕਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਮੇਟਿ ਡਾਰੇ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
  
• Somewhere He hath created millions of servants like Krishna. Somewhere He hath effaced and then created (many) like Rama. (pg.98)

 

• ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਉਬਾਰ ਨ ਸਕਹੈ ਜਾਕਰ ਨਾਮ ਰਟੈ ਹੈ॥ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਰੁਦ੍ਰ ਸੂਰਹ ਸਸਿ ਤੇ ਬਸਿ ਕਾਲ ਸਭੈ ਹੈ ॥੧ (ਸ. ਹਜਾਰੇ)
  
• Ram and Rahim whose names you are uttering cant save you. Brahma, Vishnu Shiva, Sun and Moon, all are subject to the power of Death.1. .(pg.1349)

 

• ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ॥ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈਂ ਹਮ ਏਕਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ॥ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਯੋ ॥(ਰਾਮਾਵਤਾਰ)
  
• O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet, I do not bring anyone else under my sight; none other is liked by me now; the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim and talk about you through several stories, but I do not accept these

 

• ਜਾਕਰ ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਨਹਿ ਜਨਿਯਤ ਸੋ ਕਿਮ ਸਯਾਮ ਕਹੈ ਹੈ॥(ਸਬਦ ਹਜ਼ਾਰੇ ਪਾ.10)
  
• He, whose form and colour are not, how can he be called Shyaam (black)? .(p1349)

 

• ਕਾਹੂ ਕਹਯੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਾਂ ਕਹੁ ਕਾਹੂ ਮਨੈ ਅਵਤਾਰਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਬਿਸਾਰ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਹੀ ਕਉ ਕਰਤਾ ਜੀਅ ਜਾਨਯੋ॥...ਅੰਤ ਮਰੇ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥੀ ਪਰ, ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ॥(33 ਸਵੈਯੇ)
  
• Someone calls Him Ram or Krishna and someone believes in His incarnations, but my mind has forsaken all useless actions and has accepted only One Creator.12. (p.1352)

 

• ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਭਇਓ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਗਹਿ ਦੰਡ ਕਮੰਡਲ ਭੂਮ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵਜੂ ਸਭ ਦੇਸ ਬਿਦੇਸ ਭਇਆ ਹਮ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥
  
• Brahma came into being under the control of time and taking his staff and pot his hand, he wandered on the earth; Shiva was also under the control of time and wandered in various countries far and near;

 

• ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਔ ਬਿਸਨ ਜਪੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਧਿਆਯੋ ॥ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜਪਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਸੰਭੁ ਥਪਿਓ ਤਿਹ ਤੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥……..ਤੋਹਿ ਬਚਾਇ ਸਕੈ ਕਹੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਕੈ ਆਪਨ ਘਾਵ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਐਹੈ ॥ਕੋਪ ਕਰਾਲ ਕੀ ਪਾਵਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮੈ ਆਪ ਟੰਗਿਓ ਤਿਮ ਤੋਹਿ ਟੰਗੈਹੈ ॥
  
• Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims. Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee…….They cannot save themselves from the blow of death, how can they protect thee? They are all hanging in the blazing fire of anger, therefore they will cause thy hanging similarly. (pg111)

 

• ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਸੋਂ ॥ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਇਨ ਸੋਂ ॥੪੩੪॥(ਕ੍ਰਿ.ਵਤਾਰ)
  
• I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not meditate on Krishna and Vishnu; I have only heard about them with my ears and I do not recognize them; my consciousness is absorbed at the feet of the Supreme Lord.434.

 

• ਖੋਜ ਰਹੇ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਸੇ ਜਿਹ ਅੰਤ ਅਨੰਤ ਕਹਿਓ ਥਕ ਅੰਤ ਨ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ਤਾਹੀ ਕੀ ਬਾਤ ਸੁਨੋ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਮੁਖ ਤੇ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਇਹੈ ਠਹਰਾਯੋ ॥੨੪੦੩॥
  
• He, whom Shiva etc. had been searching, but could not know His Mystery; O Shukdev ! relate to me the story of that Lord.2403.

 

• ਜੌ ਕਹੌ ਰਾਮ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਤਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਕੌ ਕੌਸ਼ਲ ਕੁੱਖ ਜਯੋ ਜੂ ॥ਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕਾਲ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹਿ ਕੌ ਕਿਹਿ ਕਾਰਣ ਕਾਲ ਤੇ ਦੀਨ ਭਯੋ ਜੂ ॥
  
• If you consider Ram, the Lord as Unborn, then how did he take birth from the womb of Kaushalya? He, who is said to be the destroyer of death, then why did he become subjugated himself before death?

 

• ਸੱਤ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਿਬੈਰ ਕਹਾਇ ਸੁ ਕਯੋਂ ਪਥ ਕੌ ਰਥ ਹਾਂਕ ਧਯੋ ਜੂ ॥ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਕੋਊ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਲੇਨ ਲਯੋ ਜੂ ॥੧੩॥
  
• If he (Krishna) is called the Truth-incarnate, beyond enmity and opposition, then why did he become the charioteer of Arjuna? O mind! you only consider him the Lord God, whose Mysetry could not be known to anyone.13.

 

• ਕਯੋਂ ਕਹੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨਿਧ ਹੈ ਕਿਹ ਕਾਜ ਤੇ ਬੱਧਕ ਬਾਣ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥ਅਉਰ ਕੁਲੀਨ ਉਧਾਰਤ ਜੋ ਕਿਹ ਤੇ ਅਪਨੋ ਕੁਲ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਯੋ ॥
  
• Krishna himself is considered the treasure of Grace, then why did the hunter shot his arrow at him? He has been described as redeeming the clans of others then he caused the destruction of his own clan;

 

• ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋਂ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥
  
• If he (Krishna) is said to be unborn and without a beginning, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki? He, who is considered without any father or mother, then why did he cause Vasudev to be called his father? 14.

 

• ਕਾਹੇ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਮਹੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਭਾਖਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ਹੈ ਨ ਰਘ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਜਦ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਰਮਾਪਤਿ ਤੈ ਜਿਨ ਕੌ ਬਿਸ੍ਵਨਾਥ ਪਛਾਨਯੋ ॥
  
• Why do you consider Shiva or Brahma as the Lord? There is none amongst Ram, Krishna and Vishnu, who may be considered as the Lord of the Universe by you;

 

• ਏਕ ਕੋ ਛਾਡਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਭਜੈ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਪਰਾਸਰ ਬਯਾਸ ਝੁਠਾਨਯੋ ॥ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਸਜੇ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੌ ਬਿਧ ਨੈਕ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੫॥
  
• Relinquishing One Lord, you worship many. Likewise Sukhdev, Prashar and Vyas were proven false due to pantheism. All have established hollow religions. I believe in One God who reveals Himself in multifarious modes.(15)

 

• ਕੋਊ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਕੋਊ ਮਹੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਬਤੈ ਹੈ ॥ਕੋਊ ਕਹੈ ਬਿਸ਼ਨੋ ਬਿਸ਼ਨਾਇਕ ਜਾਹਿ ਭਜੇ ਅਘ ਓਘ ਕਟੈ ਹੈ ॥
  
• Someone calls Brahma as the Lord-God and someone tells the same thing about Shiva; someone considers Vishnu as the hero of the universe and says that only by remembering him, all the sins will be destroyed;

 

• ਬਾਰ ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਅਰੇ ਜੜ ਅੰਤ ਸਮੈ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਤਜਿ ਜੈ ਹੈ ॥ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਧਯਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਿ ਹੀਏ ਜੋਊ ਥੇ ਅਬ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਆਗੈ ਊ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥
  
• O fool ! think about it a thousand times, all of them will leave you at the time of death. Therefore, you should only meditate on Him, who was in the past, is there in the present and will also be there in the future.16.

 

• ਕੋਟਕ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਕਰੇ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਉਪਿੰਦ੍ਰ ਬਾਨਇ ਖਪਾਯੋ ॥ਦਾਨਵ ਦੇਵ ਫਨਿੰਦ੍ਰ ਧਰਾਧਰ ਪੱਛ ਪਸੂ ਨਹਿ ਜਾਤਿ ਗਨਾਯੋ ॥
  
• He, who created millions of Indras and Upendras and then destroyed them; He, who created innumerable gods, demons, Sheshnaga, tortoises, birds, animals etc.,

 

• ਆਜ ਲਗੇ ਤਪੁ ਸਾਧਤ ਹੈ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਊ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਛੁ ਪਾਰ ਨ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਲਖਯੋ ਜਿਹ ਸੋਊ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਮੋਹਿ ਬਤਾਯੋ ॥੧੭॥
  
• And for knowing whose Mystery, Shiva and Brahma are performing austerities even till today, but could not know His end; He is such a Guru, whose Mystery could not be comprehended also by Vedas and Katebs and my Guru has told me the same thing.17.

 

• ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਲਹਯੋ ਤਿਹਿ ਸਿੱਧ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਿ ਹਾਰੇ ॥ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥
  
• The Vedas and Ketebs could not comprehend His Mystery and the adepts have been defeated in practicing contemplation; Different kinds of thoughts have been mentioned about God in Vedas, Shastras, Puranas and smrities; (p1351)

 

• ਸੋ ਕਿਮ ਮਾਨਸ ਰੂਪ ਕਹਾਏ॥ਸਿਧ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਸਾਧ ਕਰ ਹਾਰੇ ਕਯੋ੍‍ ਨ ਦੇਖਨ ਪਾਏ ॥੧॥ਰਹਾਉ ॥(ਸ. ਹਜ਼ਾਰੇ)
  
• How can He be said to come in human form? The Siddha (adept) in deep meditation became tired of the discipline on not seeing Him in any way…..Pause. (p.1348)

 

• ਸ਼ੇਸ਼ ਸੁਰੇਸ਼ ਗਣੇਸ਼ ਮਹੇਸੁਰ ਗਾਹਿ ਫਿਰੈ ਸ੍ਰੁਤਿ ਥਾਹ ਨ ਆਯੋ ॥ਰੇ ਮਨ ਮੂੜ ਅਗੂੜ ਇਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੈ ਕਿਹ ਕਾਜਿ ਕਹੋ ਬਿਸਰਾਯੋ ॥4॥1350 33 ਸਵੈਯੇ
  
• Sheshnaga, Indra, Gandesha, Shiva and also the Shrutis (Vedas) could not know Thy Mystery; O my foolish mind! why have you forgotten such a Lord. 4.

 

[sant]

ikhism is a monotheistic religion.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-5>[6]</SUP><SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-6>[7]</SUP> In Sikhism, God—termed Vāhigurū—is shapeless, timeless, and sightless: niraṅkār, akāl, and alakh. The beginning of the first composition of Sikh scripture is the figure "1"—signifying the universality of God. It states that God is omnipresent and infinite, and is signified by the term ēk ōaṅkār.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-p252_7-0>[8]</SUP> Sikhs believe that before creation, all that existed was God and his hukam (will or order).<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-8>[9]</SUP> When God willed, the entire cosmos was created. From these beginnings, God nurtured "enticement and attachment" to māyā, or the human perception of reality.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-9>[10]</SUP>

While a full understanding of God is beyond human beings,<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-p252_7-1>[8]</SUP> Nanak described God as not wholly unknowable. God is omnipresent (sarav viāpak) in all creation and visible everywhere to the spiritually awakened. Nanak stressed that God must be seen from "the inward eye", or the "heart", of a human being: devotees must meditate to progress towards enlightenment. Guru Nanak Dev emphasized the revelation through meditation, as its rigorous application permits the existence of communication between God and human beings.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-p252_7-2>[8]</SUP> God has no sex in Sikhism, though translations may incorrectly present a male God. In addition, Nanak wrote that there are many worlds on which God has created life.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-10>[11]</SUP>