sandy Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 I am confused that if at all soul has some identity of its own. I mean it is sandy's soul or David's soul or George's soul. Because we have heard that soul does not die so how it can be his soul or her soul for that matter. When a person die then does that soul goes to some other body along with the same vasnas it is carrying for the person who died. confusion... I do not know that I am asking right question or ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 In reply to : "Because we have heard that soul does not die so how it can be his soul or her soul for that matter." Sandy, David, Greg, Ashley, they all are souls wearing differnt bodies with different characteristics. You the soul , have no name, you are eternally living in the "Super soul" . The Super Soul is paramatma or krishna . The soul who is you , lives in the super soul as a part of it. But the individualized soul forms a notion of independence, thus is kind of "independent" in a way, but this independence will give it great suffering because the independence that it thinks it has is out of illusion or maya. So, as it is trying to live independently of the paramatma, it thus thinks of itself as paramatma and tries to fulfill its desires. But, it fails to do so independently, thus suffers a great deal. Only paramatma can fulfill its desires. Take for example, your body, if the finger in your body thinks of itself as you and then tries to be you, then it will fail . Because, the finger has no mouth to eat, no legs to walk etc. In a similar way, the paramatma is the supreme whole (body) and we are the parts of the supreme whole. If we serve paramatma, then we are happy, if we do not serve bhagavan, then we are not happy. However, it is the part of paramatma, so it has to serve paramatma. When the paramatma is happy, it is also happy, because it too is part of paramatma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viji_53 Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Surely when a person dies , the soul takes another body according to its karma with all the vasanas. That is why our scriptures say that we should end all our vasanas to avoid the bondage. Vasanas are responsible for bondage. There is nothing to get confused. We are identified with the body. That also should end. That is why it is said God resides in all the soul.We should learn to respect all lives since God is present in all souls. if we give up our vasanas we can avoid birth & death & reach God easily. HariBhol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 Philosophers have long toyed with the concept of consciousness as the underlying reality of everything. Some have proposed a theory called “solipsism,” which holds that only the ego-self can be known. The fallacy of this theory is that when the ego is traced to its source, it ceases to exist, as ego! The Self never ceases to be, but that Self is not the ego-self. The soul is a reflection of God; it is individualized Spirit. The problem with seeking truth by reason alone, instead of by direct experience is that the power of reasoning cannot take one to this deep realization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 Attachment is most strongly expressed in the survival instinct—a reflection, distorted by attachment, of the soul’s awareness that it is immortal. Clinging to the body, man fears to lose it, along with all the familiar associations he has built up over a lifetime. His heart pleads with death, “Must all this be really abandoned forever?” The things themselves must be left behind, yes, but not all the people. Their forms will change, but not their essence. We may find those we love decked out in fresh forms, attracted again by the magnet of mutual love. Desires are as multifarious as waves on the sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 the soul is the real individual, the real person..all the features or designation of the bodies we wear are illusory and belongs to the material life. yes, when we die, we bring something of the charachter, behaviour, intelligence etc. of the previous life in the new one, but this has nothing to do with the reality of the soul.. if we practice seriously sanatana dharma we will discover who really we are and wich relationship we have with god (rasa) in the spiritual world we are individuals, god is an individual, we have an eternal relationship of love with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 a soul is neither a male or a female, but it can take body of a male of female living being. every living thing has a soul (as well the supper-soul (krishna) in the body.) soul is non material spirit. being so, its identity is its freedom and how it uses it, and its buldle of desires and past karma done in various bodies. when a soul resides in a spiritual world with other souls, then it may have a name, just like we have a name in this world. but the names are not permanent. name is just a convension in a society. hinduism provides the complete science of the soul and supersoul. i suggest you read gita (the book of hinduism) at http://www.asitis.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2003 Report Share Posted December 25, 2003 a soul is neither a male or a female •••soul is an individual eternal svarupa... there's soul with aspiritual female body or male body.. like gopas and gopis in the krsna lila, they never lose their identity, it is not a material illusory identity that we lose at the moment of death.. there's no death in vaikunta or goloka every living thing has a soul (as well the supper-soul (krishna) in the body.) (param atma=upper soul!!) •••the opposite... every living being (krsna bhagavan included) IS a spiritual individual (atma), we have (or we are) spiritual bodies and krsna too. When we, not krsna of course, get entangled in the matter we are covered and conditioned by many material (mortal) bodies when a soul resides in a spiritual world with other souls, then it may have a name but the names are not permanent. •••no.. personality means name, form, charachter, tastes, world, companions and so on... we have a name in the spiritual world and it is a permanent component of our eternal relationship (rasa) with god.. as i said a gopi (lalita or vishaka or indulehka for example) does not lose his gopi status.. never.. but the names are not permanent. name is just a convension in a society. •••this in the material world.. not in vaikunta hinduism provides the complete science of the soul and supersoul. •••so please study it :-) i suggest you read gita (the book of hinduism) •••yes, arjuna is not illuded by maya, he's a pure devotee, he's spiritual, his body and identity is spiritual, he's a friend and disciple of krishna. So he do not lose his name and status, he's eternally arjuna.. so he has an eternal identity (svarupa) and we have an eternal identity and we will rediscover it when we will come back to godhead (now, after 5000years.. arjuna is still arjuna performing maybe in another universe the eternal pastime of mahabharata and kuruksetra battle with sri krsna) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted December 25, 2003 Report Share Posted December 25, 2003 thank you. our disagreement is becaue of languge/sematics. the arguments about soul (aatma), supersoul (paramatma) cannot provie scientific evidence in support of the arguments. we only can proivde quotes from gurus/ sadhus/ shanstras. i would not go in such discussion at this time as my focus is different. however i would comment on one thing: as i said, soul or aatma is neither male of female. if souls were males and females, then it means they produce children by sex acts in the spiritual world. sex plesure is material bodily pleasure, and a soul does not have a material body. gita or bhagavatam has no mention that a soul A married to soul B and produced soul C in the spiritual world. now, a soul can choose to hold a feminine mentality. or can choose to always take female material bodies. there is a story in bhagavatam in which a soul lived in a male body and then in a female body. then after she said that there is more sex pleasure in female body. so, this means a soul can pick any body, male of female in the material world. the concept of purusha in the vedic literature is that soul who is an enjoyer. the one that is enjoyed is prakriti - female. now vaishnava view is that we all souls are essentially the dasas of krishna. krishna is enjoyer -purusha. so we all atmas are prakriti or female. mirabai thought this way. however half the vaishanvas in the world have male bodies and half female. male-female design of the material body is just a mechanism to provide a body to an incoming soul to the material world. sex does not create a new soul. a soul or aatma is pure -free from desires, is in bliss. a jiva on the other hand is a soul with a number of desires. these disires compell the jiva to take up differnt births, male of remale. so, most of what i said about soul above is about jiva. on practical level, i pray that many million souls would take birth on the devabhoomi and act as first class kshatriyas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2003 Report Share Posted December 25, 2003 if souls were males and females, then it means they produce children by sex acts in the spiritual world •••no... the model is spiritual world not the material one, what we do here is not obligatory that is has to be done there.. so the features we have in vaikunta are only to perform lilas with the lord now, a soul can choose to hold a feminine mentality. or can choose to always take female material bodies. •••••no, it is a speculation... we have an eternal svarupa a gopi does not choose to became a male and arjuna does not choose to became a female the concept of purusha in the vedic literature is that soul who is an enjoyer. the one that is enjoyed is prakriti - female. now vaishnava view is that we all souls are essentially the dasas of krishna. krishna is enjoyer -purusha. so we all atmas are prakriti or female. mirabai thought this way. •••it is correct, if you see it from a material perspective no one can enjoy of krsna but krsna is the enjoyer of everyone... everything is in the spiritual world is for the enjoyement of krsna, and krsna wants a complete world with girls, friends, father, mother, masters, servants and so on... so there's not a spiritual world with krsna as the only man and and the others only girls.. spiritual world has more variety than the material one a soul or aatma is pure -free from desires, is in bliss. a jiva on the other hand is a soul with a number of desires •••jiva and atma are two words who designates the same pure, sat cit ananda soul... the only difference is that atma can be used also to designate god on practical level, i pray that many million souls would take birth on the devabhoomi and act as first class kshatriyas. ••• me too... but if we do not study the dharma and if we do not behave in a dharmic way teaching correct things to people they put us in the jail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.