No such thing as.......

[Guest guest]

Got your attention didnt I? Hahaha. Well I am new to this site my name is Hari Dham from vancouver bc canada. I like this site but i see Hinduism this and Hinduism that when infact the word hindu is never mentioned in the scriptures. We are not hindus, there is no such thing as a hindu dharma. Its Sanatan Dharma which is properly followed by Vaisnavas such as Prabhupad.

 

We are Vaisnavas not hindus.

 

Hare krsna

 

Hari Dham Das.

[Guest guest]

if your name changed from something to hari dham,

why some one cannot give different name to sahatana dharma?

 

your name is not mentioned in scriptures,

and still you exist.

 

first the muslims started calling sanatan dharmis hindus.

then all others started calling them hindus.

There is no name "India" in scriptures.

And still India exists as it was.

 

None of 1,000,000,000 of the hindus say

chaitanya was not a hindu.

none says a vaishnava is not a hindu.

so what is the loss if a vaishnav says he/she is a hindu?

 

none says prabhupada was not a hindu (except himself, for deplomtic reason.)

 

jai sri krishna! -madhav

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hindus & Hare Krishnas (HK’s) Unity

by “Madhav”

 

Background:

 

Terms Defined:

 

The word Hindu is about 1200 years old. When the Islamists started invading India around 900 AD, they had to cross the river Sindhu at the NW border of Bharat (India).

They would pronounce Sindhu as Hindu. So, the world Hindu to them meant the people who lived on the East and South side of Sindhu. These people were (and most of them still are) the followers of Sanatana Dharma or Varnasrama Dharma that is described in the ancient Vedas and the Vedic literature. Their culture is known as the Vedic culture. People accept the authority of the Vedas and live by it. The culture is such that every one in the society has equal opportunity to progress spiritually towards God. Every act of daily life is geared towards God in mind and for spiritual progress. According to the Vedas, Sanatana Dharma is as old as the creation. So, the word Hindu meant the Vedic person and Vedic way of living (Sanatana Dharma) came to be known as Hinduism. The words Hindu or Hinduism are not mentioned in the Vedic literature because the name change occurred long after the scriptures were put on paper. Originally the literatures were kept in memory of the Brahmana class of the society.

 

Hinduism is a very tolerant Dharma. The Book of Hinduism is Bhagavad Gita that is generally known is Gita. It is a 700-verse summary of 80,000-verse Vedas. While other religions give a set of beliefs for one to accept or reject. Hinduism provides spiritual truths that are as true and universal as the laws of science, like gravity or mathematics. Once can accept these truths and live by it, or choose to not accept and eventually suffer if the laws are violated. Just as the laws of gravity does not change no matter what you believe about it, the spiritual laws and facts about God and soul do not change whether you believe them or not. Hinduism, in principle, provides all possible ways of realizing God. That is why it talks of many names of gods. That is why it is difficult for non-Hindus to understand it. Consequently most non-Hindu cultures have misunderstood it and even condemned it. Every religion has some people who malpractice it. Hinduism is not any exception, but malpractice does not and cannot change what a religion originally is. While Islam and Christianity tells the followers to convert the whole world, Hinduism tells not talk about Hinduism to any one who is not showing friendly interest to know it. Consequently, the Hindus have never invaded another’s country and never have converted any one by force. Hinduism is inherently a secular way of living. Consequently the phrase “Hindu Fundamentalism” or “Hindu Fanatic” is an oxymoron. Unlike Islam and Christianity, Hinduism is not an organized religion.

 

Bharat is described in the Vedic literature as devabhoomi, the land of the gods. It is a holy land of rishis (spiritual scientist), saints, sanyasis (people who give up worldly life for spiritual life), sadhus (godly people), and yogis and mystics. Most Hindus are God conscious.

 

Hinduism says God is one. As creator He is Brahma, as maintainer, He is Vishnu, and as destroyer, He is Shiva. Then there are many demi-gods who serve God, just as there are many Governors and Mayors who serve the President. Consequently a Shiva worshipper Hindu is known a Shivite, and Vishnu worshipper is known is Vaishnava, etc. The philosophy of Vaishnavas is called Vaishnavism. This, Vaishnavism is a major part of Hinduism ever since Hinduism exists.

 

Hinduism is non-sectarian. It addresses or is for all the people of all times and places.

Hinduism has no pagans. Hindus are skin-color-blind. Race is transparent to them.

Bharat is the cradle of the Vedic civilization. So, Bharat is the land of the Hindus, just as Israel is the land of the Jews.

 

Hindu Nationalism is a new phenomenon, although Bharat is a nation of the Hindus since thousands of years. Since 1200 years the Hindus have been kicked and persecuted in their own land by Islamists and for 200 or so years before 1947 ruled over by the British people. Even after so much and so long suffering, the Hindus remained tolerant to the aggressors (Islamists and Christians). Gandhi made it worse for the Hindus by creating Pakistan for the Islamists and still allowing the Muslims to live in Bharat. He did it so because the Muslims threatened a civil war in 1947 and Gandhi did not want a war. What he did in actuality was he made the non-violent Hindus more tolerant of the aggressors, and he failed to make the violent aggressor Islamists non-violent. Now the Hindus do not want to tolerate any more non-sense from the Islamists or any one else. They want to keep Bharat intact, undisturbed, and reserved for the Hindus where they do not want any aggressor religion or ideology that thinks of converting any Hindu. They are working at internal level to stop Hinduism malpractice, and external level to cleanup Bharat of the ideologies that are aggressive to Hinduism and Hindus. Being Hindus, they preferred non-violent ways so far and for long, and none worked. The violent ways are within the scope of Hinduism as described in Gita and they know it. Gandhi’s non-violence message was from Jainism, not Hinduism. So, this sudden change in Hindus’ mood to restore self-respect and get control of their own land and self-rule is seen by the invader outsiders as Hindu fundamentalism, but it is not. Hindus really do not care what other countries do in their own country. They just want to make sure they can practice Hinduism without any hindrance from any one in their own land Bharat.

 

 

The phrase “Hare Krishnas” identifies the Western followers of Bhakti-vedanta Swami Prabhupada who preached Krishna Consciousness (KC). KC is same as Vaishnavism at taught by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu some 500 years ago. His philosophy is slightly different from that taught by three Vaishnava Aacharya (religious authorities) that came before him.

 

The Current Time:

 

This is post 9/11/2001 WTC attack time and early 2003. 9/11 attack on WTC has made the world know the barbaric nature of Islam. The Hindus have many times suffered genocide over 1200 years from Islamists in Bharat. Therefore, the Hindus, being the vitims, know the barbaric nature of Islam since a long time. The current barbaric acts of Islamists towards Hindus are: The destruction of Baminan Buddha statue in Afghanistan, attack on Akshardham and Raghunath temples in Bharat. The web page http://www.hinduunity.org describes many such acts towards the Hindus.

 

The jeehaad or Islamists’ holy war against all the non-Muslim people of the world is an asymmetric war of terrorism. (They do jeehaad as described in their Holy Book, Koran and Hadith.) No government alone can fight terrorism and win it. Everyone (or most of the) citizen needs to fight it in whatever small or big way one can fight it, violently or non-violently. For Hindus, violent war is the last choice. When all have to fight, then unity of purpose, organizing, planning, manning, funding, and executing is required. Therefore, the Hindus and HK’s can unite for this purpose. However, the way Sri Prabhupada has presented KC, it makes difficult for HK’s to unite with the Hindus. When many Hindus see that Hk’s do not understand them, then they turn away from HK’s and sometimes become hostile to HK’s. Still many Hindus do support HK’s. This article aims to discuss it with the hope that it will help HK’s unite with Hindus. Once properly understood, it would be seen that unity is already there but not realized.

 

Now the Article:

 

Some points (facts) are described below.

 

a) Sri Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada who came to USA in 1965 and preached KC for 12 years all over the world was a Hindu. He was born and raised in Bharat (although that is not a condition to become a Hindu.) He practiced and preached KC or Vaishnavism or Krishna bhakti or Bhagavat dharma that is a major part or sect of Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma. He preached Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam. Gita is the Book of Hinduism. Krishna is known as God Vishnu among Hindus and in the Vedic literature.

b) Hare Krishnas are Hindus. This is clear when they practice and preach KC. The Hindus clearly see it this way. If some one who follows Jesus is no doubt a Christian, then one who follows and worships Krishna is no doubt a Hindu. If a bird says it is not a bird, that does note make it a non–bird.

c) Prabhupada said to his followers that he is not preaching Hinduism, so HK’s are not Hindus, he said. So the question is why he said so in light of paragraph a) above. Some answers are as follows:

c1: Many Hindus have malpracticed Hinduism, and Hinduism is more than Vaishnavism. The malpractice is going away now, but is still there somewhat. Most non-Hindus incorrectly think that Hinduism is what the most Hindus practice. Rather than telling about the malpractices to the followers who mostly hated Hinduism because they do not know it correctly, he told he is not preaching Hinduism. This was to avoid the discussion about the malpractices and different sects’ principles of Hinduism. This was a lie, but for good reason, just like parents sometimes lie to a child to take a medicine that ultimately will make the child healthy.

c2) The Islamists and the Christians have introduced Hinduism to the world incorrectly and defamed it for selfish reasons. Consequently most non-Hindus do not know what Hinduism really is, and hate it for what they know about it. If Prabhupada had said, ”I am teaching a part of Hinduism,” most would have turned away from him before listening him any more. So, it helped him teach pure Vaishnavism to them by telling it is not Hinduism or a sect of it.

c3) When he said he is not preaching Hinduism, it became attractive to all, even who hated Hinduism. So, he got more followers, as he wanted.

d) When the Hindus hear that Prabhupada said he is not preaching Hinduism when in reality he is, they (especially those who follow Hinduism correctly) feel that Prabhupada stole Hinduism and did not give due credit to the Hindus who kept Hinduism alive despite many Hindu genocides by the Muslims. This is like a mother (even a prostitute) will feel really bad, upset, and hurt when her son says, “I am not your child.” Although Hinduism is for every human being, it is the Hindus who kept it as their treasured heritage. So, when some one takes this heritage and spreads it, they feel good about it. However, when no credit is given to the Hindus for carrying on the culture for future generations, they feel bad about it. Similarly when the Hindus see that yoga and Aayurveda are silently stolen from Hindu heritage and commercialized, and no credit is given to the Hindus, they feel bad about it. The Hindu nationalists want to understand this heritage correctly and practice it well, especially in Bharat.

 

e) Prabhupada preached pure Vaishnavism but packaged it wrongly to make it attractive to his western audience. Removing this false package does not change his preaching subject (Vaishnavism) at all. Vaishnavism still can be preached as Prabhupada taught it, but saying that it is a major sect of Hinduism. No harm can happen to the KC movement if this is done.

 

f) When KC is recognized by HK’s as a part of Hinduism, millions of the Hindus will feel good about it and support the movement. Note that even without this correction, many Hindus do support KC movement. Hindus have no problem with others if others want to worship only one god exclusively. However, HK’s should not look down to the Hindus just because they worship many gods. They do it because there are many gods (devas/ devis). When they understand dharma correctly then they worship only one god.

 

g) Currently HK’s are not supporting Hindu nationalist movement but the Hindus are supporting KC movement. Thus there is no mutual support that is needed when Islamists have declared war on all the kafirs (HK’s included). If the Hindu nationalists do not keep Islam and Christianity out of Bharat, then over some time not far, there will not be any Hindu temples or pilgrimage places like Vrindavan and Jagannath or Dwarika. It all will be just mosques, and burqa for women and cow slaughters every where. Islam is very intolerant, and Koran and Hadith and Saria are the books of religion as well as the government. Sure HK’s do not want this, and therefore they need to support Hindu nationalist movement as the Hindus support KC movement.

 

h) Hinduism (Vaishnavism included) has four divisions of society. Ideally, the Brahmanas are the spiritual guides of the society. Kshatriyas are the protective class, the police and military to keep law and order so that every one can practice their dharma without any problem from any one. Vaishya are farmers and traders and merchants, and shudras are the labor class. Every society has these four classes. Without kshatriyas or the Hindu nationalists, the Hinduism will be run over by the Islamists in Bharat. Hindu-HK unity is desirable to avoid this and keep Hinduism alive and well for future generations on this earth.

 

Bottom line:

 

Vaishnavism the HK’s practice and preach is a major sect of Hinduism. It is a subset of Hinduism. Therefore, HK’s are Hindus and they need to accept this truth just as a Californian will not say he is not an American. The Hindus have no doubt about it. The HK’s should thank Sri Prabhupada for telling them (even incorrectly) he is not preaching Hinduism and thus making them Krishna devotees. Hinduism is just a recent new name for Varnasrama dharma or Sanatana dharma. The word “Hinduism” should not be used to mean all the malpractice the Hindus did in the past. Rather Hinduism needs to be presented to the world as it actually is given by Krishna in Gita. HK’s need to be sympathetic to the Hindu nationalist movement called Hindutva in reciprocation of the fact that Hindus do support KC movement. The current HK preachers need not say any more that they are not preaching Hinduism because now they know KC is not bad as malpracticed Hinduism was. It is very true and correct to say Vaishnavism is a sect of Hinduism and they are preaching that only in its pure form, and practice it correctly. The purpose of the article is to cause unity that is beneficial for HK’s as well as the Hindus.

 

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

--END—