Guest guest Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 What the indian government needs to do is something which reflects the modern day democratic culture of its country. Make a beautiful park there with green gardens full of trees and flowers and all kinds of plants and a sign that says "People of all religions, or no religion, are welcomed here to contemplate the beauty and harmony of nature." India has enough mandirs and enough mosques. There is no need for anymore concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 This is the last thing we need, to break the temples and mosques of India and replace them with parks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madanvrao Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Any place on which you want to build a temple or a mosque or any other shrine, has to be a transcendental place. It is better not to build a shrine on a place which has ignited passions. That place has been desecreted by constant bickering or bloodshed over whether to build a temple or a mosque. God will not like to live in such a place. Unfortunately that place has now fallen from its transcendental position. Therefore, it is better to build a park or a high tech speciality hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 A place does not lose its "transcendental" quality just because a stubborn and insensitive asura behaves viciously there. In fact its hallowed nature is only increased when this sacrilege is suitably requited by devotees of the Lord. Blood shed in the way of God can be a great purifier. The structure that stands on the demolished ruins of the Ram Mandir is a monument to asuric fanaticism perpetrated by a monster envious of the glorification that the Vaishnavas heaped on their Lord Rama. Allowing such a crime to go uncorrected will be a monumental Akarma on the part of Vaishnavas. Mr. Madan V. Rao, you can't turn your back on injustice just because it disturbs your sanctimonious "peace of mind". Fight with a peaceful and steady mind, in the knowledge that you are working against injustice, of which the Babri structure is a historic symbol. No one said we should fill ourselves with hatred. Before any violence, we should repeatedly offer our Muslim compatriots the Golden Opportunity to atone, in one symbolic stroke, for the atrocities of the past. I cannot understand how the silent majority of our Muslims is allowing the fanatic mulladom among them to throw away this great opportunity to apologize and express regret for the historical wrongs that were committed against them in the name of Islam. The Law of Karma is a sociological principle, and the best way to neutralize this is for our Muslims to come forward and build the Ram Mandir with their own hands, or at least agree to its construction. But if they even allow the fanatics among them to stubbornly resist, degrade the memory of Shri Ram by equating him with Babar-the-barbarian, and not act according to their conscience, then they must endure whatever Karma unfolds. For our part, Vaishnavas should follow the dharmic steps of saama, daana, bheda, danDa. Whatever will be will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 "The Law of Karma is a sociological principle, and the best way to neutralize this is for our Muslims to come forward and build the Ram Mandir with their own hands" _how can a muslim of year 2003 be responsable of a fact happened hundreds of years ago by other people? i pay my karma, not the other's one... it is surprising how some hindus can twist the dharma to accomodate their fanaticism.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 If muslims today block the reconstruction of a Rama temple, then they are responsible (even though they did not destroy the original Rama temple). If they allow the original Rama temple to be rebuilt, then there is no problem with them. The problem is today's muslims want to interfere in Hindu's rights to construct a Rama temple on their own purchased property in Ayodhya!!! Simultaneously they want to claim they are innocent because they weren't the one's to break the Rama temple hundreds of years ago. Sorry, you can't have both ways. Either you keep out of the issue, and you are without fault, or you interfere in the issue, and then you will be blamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 dear dharmakshetra, Some Muslims today are actively opposing the majority sentiment of the Hindus. So they are making clear their connection with Babar and his hordes, and their implicit support of those historical crimes. Hindus are not saying that they want to violate Muslims today for crimes committed centuries ago. All they're saying is that they want to re-build their temple. Secondly, you seem to be unaware of the concept of national Karma or collective Karma. Its not even scriptural knowledge, but merely common sense. The sense of community is built into the human psyche. That is the fact we have to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 the national karma exists, but it is not up to you to punish people belonging to the nation (what nation? they're indian citizens!!) of one who has committed atrocities... or i came to your house beating anyone because my grand pa, fighting in the 2nd world war, was prisoner in india and he had great suffering (he fought in europe and he never pulled out an hair of an indian) the truth is that the all ayodya affair is political, there's a resurgence of nationalism and, as ever, the politicians like to have the people involved in wars and conflicts thinking that the bad things are fault of other poor people and not of the corrupted and demoniac politicians if you love rama... chant and spread his name, do not be so attached to some bricks and houses... and make the temple some kilometers away to avoid the wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 or if you have a real interest in worship rama... worship and stop the fight... now there's war, no worship, no pilgrimage, no chanting, no prayers, no yajna, no prasadam.. so make the temple in another location and start worshipping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Dear dharmaksetra, You do not understand the ground reality in India. Every attrocity committed by muslims and christians(goa inquisition) is hidden and blatant lies is taught by the educational system of India. So some Hindus tried to change the system by publishing truth. The result was severe opposition from both muslims and christians. Since muslims and christians had more rights than Hindus, we Hindus tried to bring this issue in the forefront. Soem issues were tax cut for all religious institutions except Hindu institutions, a muslim could divorce according to muslim laws(even muslim women opposed this), unecessarily spending Rs, 4 crores for muslims to go to meccs etc. Muslims(the Haj committee) even threatened the government that they will indulge in violence if haj money was stopped. We Hindus were called fundamentalists by secular press for this and no mention of muslim fundamentalism was made inspite of death threats from them. Next comes the Ayodhya issue. It is believed by Hindus to be the birth place of Lord Ram. It is as important as mecca for muslims. Muslims destroyed the temple there. There are even muslim documents in this regard. Muslims of today oppose building temple there. This has surely become a political issue. But if Hindus do not act on injustice(all) then they will be responsible for their loss. It is Dharma to act now. I do not find anything wrong in building a temple there. We Hindus did not go in search of muslims to kill them. It is muslims who come and cause trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 everything you say can be right, no problem, but you are speaking of politics, not of religion. You cannot speak continuously of religion, hindu, ram, krsna etc etc without believing that everything could be resolved simply chanting the name of ram and worshipping him. So "jaya RAM, jaya sri RAM" but you have no faith that Ram is able to change the things. So do and say what you want, but RAM has nothing to do with it, Sri RAM wants prayers, harinama, prasadam, puja, devotees, pilgrims....... not blood or fightings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Hmmm.... Dear Dharmaksetra, I said clearly it is politics. Why Lord Krishna was also involved in politics. Kshatriya dharma is whenever adharma comes in society, a Kshatriya should protect it. That is what Lord Krishna said to Arjuna. So should we Hindus here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Hanuman did not sit in a forest chanting Jai Ram. He fought a war against the demoniac, as did Lord Ram. Hindus do not want to fight a war or hurt people. They want to build a temple on their legally owned land in Ayodhya. But muslims are objecting to this. Who will cause violence? Muslims in retaliation for Hindus building a temple. Just see the hypocrisy. The muslims will start the violence simply because we want to build a temple in our country on our legally owned land. Yet they acuse us Hindus for starting this hatred. It is true that Muslims will become violent if a temple is built there. Are threats of violence reason to avoid what should be done? Today they will threaten you over Ayodhya, tomorrow they will threaten to become violent if you teach Gita. We should not adjust our actions under threats from criminally minded people. The temple in Ayodhya does not in any way infringe on the rights of Muslims, thus they have no right to object to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 ask for advice to your spiritual master.... haribol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 dharmakshetra says "You cannot speak continuously of religion, hindu, ram, krsna etc etc without believing that everything could be resolved simply chanting the name of ram and worshipping him." So if someone barges into your home and violates its sacred space and its inhabitants including your women, you will sit down and chant?? In the Bhagavad Gita Shri Krishna clearly says that he does not appreciate the man who lights no fire and performs no works. The idea of yoga is to dovetail your will to the Will of Krishna. Then your instincts become purified. You act out of love for God and the dharma He has laid out, and all your actions, including political life, are beyond Karma. In the Manusmriti, it is said that a man is justified in killing an oppressor even if he is a Brahman. A spiritual explanation for this apparently violent act follows therein. You are making an artificial separation between religious life and "politics". There is no logic in this, and you are caught up in your small mind's notions of peace and happiness -- escaping from reality. If you chant to escape Reality, then YOU need to consult a guru, not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 " then YOU need to consult a guru, not us. " not us eh? this demonstrates how religious and vedic is your position... do your politics, but do not call it religion no guru = no ram.. even if you construct the st.peter cathedral at ayodya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 dear dharmakshetra, That statement of mine was to let you know that all you have been doing is being preachy and point fingers at whether or not others are religious enough. But your pontificative vanity is so dense you didn't even get the message this time. Instead, you again tried to preach to us how religiously misguided we are. So let me spell it out: No, I did not mean I don't have a guru! This strange combination of self-righteous vanity and contempt mixed with an ideological position of absolute non-violence is typical of a certain breed of Indians. It has been, and will be our greatest downfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 so produce another Bin Laden (O RAMA BIN LADEN) and go with an airplane over the mecca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 << Unfortunately that (ayodhya rama temple) place has now fallen from its transcendental position. >> this is like saying that "when your mother is raped in broad day light by muslims in public, and you get angry at them, then you fell from your transcendental position." what right muslims had to invade india? what right they had to destroy rama temple on the first place? what right they - the minirity - have to go against the local majority hidnus? what justification you hindu - victim of islam - have to say rama temple destruction by muslims is ok? jai sri krishna! -madhav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 politic, rage, hate, revenges, proud, nationalism... do not pollute the name of sri ram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 << politic, rage, hate, revenges, proud, nationalism... do not pollute the name of sri ram >> a krishna conscious person uses and does everything for krihna (and his devotees). being so, politics, rage, hate, revenges, proud, nationalism... is to be used for Krishna (rama). varnasrama has kshatriya varna. kshatriyas practice politics for krishna. rama was in rage when the ocean did not listen Him when he was at kanyakumari. there is nothng wrong in being in rage with asuras. there is no need to love asuras. if you can love them, then love, but kill them, as arjun killed even bhishma and drona. punishing and killing asuras is not revenge. pride of being a KC is not maya. nationalism - preserving/protecting a nation (devabhoomi bharat) that is the cradle of sanatana dharma for sanatana dharimis of future generations is not nationalism. why chanakya pandit fought aggressors (thru chandragupta)? why prabhupada quotes chanakya pandit? why hare krishnas make the mistake of converting the whole world to brahmanas when the vedic society needs all four varnas? jai sri krishna! -madhav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 "why hare krishnas make the mistake of converting the whole world to brahmanas when the vedic society needs all four varnas?" you are the demonstration that there's not shortage of people who like to fight, but there's a big shortage of spiritual leaders to say to ksatryas (or pseudo ksatryas) when a war is maya or not one of the feature of a ksatrya is that he respects brahmanas and do not acts without consulting them before fighting the "asuras" we have to became ourselves "suras" -- but there's no problem.... fight and kill.... if it is hinduism(i do not believe it), i am not hindu, i do not need to learn the hindu way to be a fanatic intolerant, i can learn it in my country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2003 Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 << you are the demonstration that there's not shortage of people who like to fight, >> no, there is sortage. gandhians have made most hindus cowrds. this has to change. gandhi wasn jain at heart, not a hindu (sanatana dharmi) at heart. << but there's a big shortage of spiritual leaders to say to ksatryas (or pseudo ksatryas) when a war is maya or not >> even Hk's (best brahmanas) are not truthfully saying that islam causes terrorism. why the 1000 yeas if islam invasions and hindu slaughter does not mean anything to HK's? it is because they were not born on the vedic land bharat. their ancestors were not killed or raped by muslims. htey just learned vaishnavsm from hindu culture, but are not interested the pain of the hindus from where the learned to become a brahmana. << one of the feature of a ksatrya is that he respects brahmanas and do not acts without consulting them >> true. but brahmana is not the only source for knowing who is an asura and who is not. shastra, and history are there to know the truth. << before fighting the "asuras" we have to became ourselves "suras" >> yes. the revolution to wipe out islam from the vedic land includes becoming suras ( first class hindus) and fighting asuras. however, your statement above cannot mean that any one who is not a pure sura has no right to defend his dharma and rashtra and culture. the journey to become pure sura is long. consequetly all are more or less pure. what matters it that htey want to be pure suras. and the others hate these suras as kafirs. no hare krishna has entered mecca yet. (incontast almost all the vedic temples are open for all.) why? becaue Hk's are kafirs - worthy to be killed or converted by islam. jai sri krishna! -madhav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2003 Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 ok, you are too involved in this mess... go and fight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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