how the demons be killed if soul never dies?

[Guest guest]

We say that God incarnated as Krishna, Narashima, Rama to save the world from demons. How can God kill a demon if the soul never dies. Krishna says that Soul never born or never dies in Gita, but he killed Demons like Kamsan. How can he kill him if his soul never dies?

 

And the same thing apply for Jesus Christ. How can Jesus Christ sacrifice himself for us if soul never dies. So, we could only say that Jesus Christ sacrifice his body (one of his birth) for us right? Just like some others who sacrifice their self for us, like Soldiers.

[Guest guest]

We say that God incarnated as Krishna, Narashima, Rama to save the world from demons.

•••krsna is god and emanates avataras

 

How can God kill a demon if the soul never dies.

•••yes, their bodies are killed not their souls that are parts and parcels of krsna (=the supreme personality of god), and even many demons (almost all) are devotees who want to play battles and wars with him. So, when the lila is ended, they come back in the spiritual world (no one can attack or challenge bhagavan if he does not want to perform a lila with him)

 

How can Jesus Christ sacrifice himself for us if soul never dies.

•••he asks to bhagavan to pay the karma of humans with his own great sufferings on the cross and it is true, if one follows the true teachings of jesus christ (that are perfectly into sanatana dharma even if they do not explain in details the features of the personal concept of god) he gets liberation, moksa, and the karma goes away. He say: "who is meeting in the name of god, here there's my church" ... samkirtana yajna, the yuga dharma.. if we do it we are liberated also with the help of jesus christ

 

Just like some others who sacrifice their self for us, like Soldiers.

•••soldiers are poor people without any understanding of the real self, they die for an illusory concept of nation, who comes from an illusory bodily concept of life, they are full of fear, they do not want to die or sacrifice anything, they do this as a job for making money or because they're forced by the government... not exactly like lord jesus

[maadhav]

<< Just like some others who sacrifice their self for us, like Soldiers.

•••soldiers are poor people without any understanding of the real self, they die for an illusory concept of nation, who comes from an illusory bodily concept of life, they are full of fear, they do not want to die or sacrifice anything, they do this as a job for making money or because they're forced by the government... >>

 

here apparently a brahmana slanders all the kshatriyas.

this bahmana lives in a society with police and military who protect his freedom, home, wife, children, temple, possessions, etc. and he choose to slander them.

one varna slanders another verna.

 

what good can come out of this?

is this right?

 

[Guest guest]

the world soldiers is from a latin "root" that means money, and as you surely know that in many countries soldiers are people of all the social classes forced for some months or years to do it... do you want to use the saint word ksatrya for them? do you want to compare their sacrifice in complete maya to satisfy the maya of the kali yuga governments , with the sacrifice of jesus and the heroic and saint ksartyas of the vedic era like arjuna, bhima, bhismadeva or even hanuman or ramachandra?

 

madhav, we are in kali yuga.. chaitanya mahaprabhu says that everyone's a sudra and it is easy to see it

 

you're a hindu... study your scriptures, your culture!!

[Guest guest]

When I said "Soliders", what I meant was freedom fighters like Liberation Tiger of Tamil Eelam. I might get bannbed for publishing this. But I think I should tell this. If you were born in Sri-Lanka as a tamil, you will know how hard it is live. Teenagers always disappear in capital cities and other cities which are under the force of army. Now, Tamil Tigers don't get paid for their fights, and they even give their soul to stop a massive army from attacking tamil villages. What about them? They are willing to sacrifice their soul for the freedom of tamil people.

[Guest guest]

What about them? They are willing to sacrifice their soul for the freedom of tamil people.

•••if you want to see muslim out of india, maybe the people of sri lanka want to see the tamils go back in tamil nadu, so if your fanaticism is right (i do not think so) it is right also for sri lanka people..

 

madhav.. read bhagavad gita and speak of religion not of politics and terrorism

 

(the real and definitive freedom is to go back in the spiritual world)

[maadhav]

<< (the real and definitive freedom is to go back in the spiritual world) >>

 

when vishnu dootas were taking yudhithir to haven,

they were passing by a hell. yudhisthir heard the cries of the jivas suffering pain coming from the hell at a distance.

 

when they approaced the hell however, the crying sounds stopped. so yudhithir asked vishnu dootas why the hell is so silent. they told him that because a devotee soul like himself arrrived there, the jivas in the hell are feeling peace and no pain. suddenly yudhithri decided to not to to haven but remain in the hell.

 

similarly if all the great souls - HK's - greedily care for for going to golok only and not care for the conditions here, what good it would bring to the future generations of people?

 

know that all of us have taken millions of births in the past. a few more before going to the spiritual world would not make much difference. it however would make a lot difference for the future genenrations coming to this world.

 

understand that in this time of terrorism

chaitanya's message does not apply.

the vedic devotee congratation has been bombed in the vedic temple by the terrorists following the asuric ideology.

 

the time is to listen to krishna.

when all terrorism stops, all asuras are killed, then follow chaitanya. krishna did not do ras lila until after he killed all the asuras.

 

[maadhav]

<< madhav, we are in kali yuga.. chaitanya mahaprabhu says that everyone's a sudra and it is easy to see it >>

 

so you are brahmana and your guru is brahmana.

 

when terrorist shudras come and kill invading other shudra's temples and brahmanas' temples then no shudra has any right or duty to defend and fight back. right?

 

when some one forcibly enters your home and destroyes your temple and rapes your wife, then there is no one to stop or fight with them because you and all are shudras. right?

 

krishna says:

 

chAturvarnam mayA sristum

guna karma vibhagasah

 

every society has these four varnas.

some 2-300 years ago africa did not have kshatriyas with guns. consequently they were forcibly taken to slavery.

can you see what can happen if HK's (and othres) neglect to develop kshatriyas?

 

can any society, even Hk society, survive without some one protecting their freedom and possessions?

 

if you say yes, then prove it by living in a muslims country like saudi arabia or pakistan.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Maadhal, we hindus don't believe in hell or heaven or Devil. It says so on the article you gave us in the thread "questions about hinduisM" that there were only two things, one is us and one is Bhagavan!!! And the reason why we are here to is to experience the desires we wanted to when we were in spiritual world with Krishna. Dont' confuse us man!!! So if we don't believe in Devil how can Krishna comes to save the world from devil? I dont' understand that as well... clear explanation please!!!

[Guest guest]

Dear devotees,

I have never been a soldier, but I have met many during the war in Croatia few years ago.

 

I was under the ground, together with other people (I used to work in Ministry of justice and I lived in compound of City jail). It was very late - maybe 1 o'clock in the morning. And we could see nothing because we had sand sack on windows to protect us from bombing or bullits.

 

And fighters would come back for weapon or because they were bleeding. I remember the smell of weapoon and the smell of bloud. We were civilians and we did not go out to fight. They were protecting me and the others. I remember I had a little flower garland in my hands (that belonged to Srila Prabhupada's murti from Zagreb temple) and I felt very safe with this tiny thing in my hand.

 

But I will never forget hot brave these men were, fighting, killing and dying, suffering just because they wanted goodies to win.

 

Please, don't offend soldiers. These men I have seen did not do it for money - THEY DID IT TO PROTECT CIVILIANS.

 

Your servant, Yashoda dd

[Guest guest]

"similarly if all the great souls - HK's - greedily care for for going to golok only and not care for the conditions here, what good it would bring to the future generations of people?"

•••madhav you are boring and materialist, you are everytime speaking of religion and you do not believe that religion will solve our problems.

 

So be coherent, do not speak of sanatana dharma, religion, hinduism and so on, speak of war, politics, terrorism etc.

 

this would be good and maybe you are competent, but if you do not believe in religion, if you are not a religious person do not speak of it

 

(if you develop the qualities to go to goloka, you make goloka in the earth... if you do not develop yourself spiritually, when some kind of oppressor is gone away, then anyone else became the oppressor, because materialism is necessarily an oppression... i do not know what will happen if you or some people like you will be at the head of a nation what will happen...

.

.

but the important thing now... if you do not believe in the power of spirituality, simply be coherent and do not speak of it, there's a thread speaking of the soul and you have turned it in your boring nationalist propaganda)

[Guest guest]

Please, don't offend soldiers. These men I have seen did not do it for money - THEY DID IT TO PROTECT CIVILIANS.

:::haribol prabhu... you are a devotee, you can have found good people with a certain degree of goodness but you must know what is a real religious, saint ksatrya... not these poor men in illusion like us or more than us

 

do you think that krsna would come and explain bhagavad gita to one of them? are them saints?.. come on!!

[Guest guest]

So if we don't believe in Devil how can Krishna comes to save the world from devil? I dont' understand that as well... clear explanation please!!!

•••there's no a devil as an anti-god or a god of the evil... maybe, when it is practical, maybe speaking with anyone of christian background, we can call devil the tentation from maya to forget krsna, but it is not exact... so there's no devil, the master in chief of the hell is yamaraja who is one of the greatest saints and devotees of the universe

[maadhav]

<< Maadhal, we hindus don't believe in hell or heaven or Devil. >>

 

here you are saying you are a hindu.

 

<<.. how can Krishna comes to save the world from devil? I dont' understand that as well... clear explanation please!!! >>

 

and here you are saying you do not understand krishna.

a hindu should now the answer. well, all may not know it.

so let me clarify.

 

per the vedic literature. there are many kinds of hells with various sufferings. but for any sin one may commit, there is no eternal hell. no soul lives in a hell eternally.

one may go to any hell, but for a certain time only. also, if god or a godly person who has realized god becomes merciful to a soul in hell, he/she can free the soul/jiva from the hell.

 

now aboud devil.

 

the non hindu concept of devil is that devil is a person who always workd agaisnt god. the vedic literature (hinduism) does not say so. if devil s a person, who created it, who are his parents, when he was born, how long he will live? if god created devil, then sure can can kill devil also.

 

in gita krishna talks about daivic and asuric mentality.

see gita chapter daiva asura sampad vibhaag yoga.

any person can hold sura (daivic) mentality or asura mentality. this mentality is generated due to one's belief in god or non belief in god, and how stongly on want to enjoy with one's senses and how greedy one is, or how much one controls one's senses.

 

any person can change from one mentality to the other.

so, there is no permanent sura or asura.

the different yoga processes are to help one, any one (sura or asura) from bad to good, always closer to god and godly life/ pious/sin-free life.

 

krishna comes/incarnates when there is too much adharma in a society, so much that his devotees feel too much pain and cannot fight the asuras by themselves. then he comes to please his devotees, and annahilates the asuras.

he kills asuras only if the asuras do not surrender and do not give up asuric mentality and karma.

 

(similalry, the suras need to fight asuras till they surrender and give up adharma. if they do not give up, then the asuras must be killed so that the freedom of the suras to practice dharma is protected.)

 

hoep it helps.

 

[Guest guest]

Guest wrote " the freedom of tamil people.

•••if you want to see muslim out of india, maybe the people of sri lanka want to see the tamils go back in tamil nadu, so if your fanaticism is right (i do not think so) it is right also for sri lanka people.."

 

Do not expose your ignorance especially on Sri Lankan history.

 

The earlist settlers were Vedas after the Tamils migration came the Sinhalese Prince and his entourage was bansihed from Bengal. The Prince married women from the Pandya royal court. After the convesion to Buddhism those who did not revert back to Saivism took on the Sinhala identity ( a similar cases happen in Kerala with the Namboodari converting Tamil into Malayalam

 

The plantation Tamils werte later brough to work on the Tea plantation by the British and they are not fighting for independence.

 

The Buddhist Sangha (especially the monks) instead of promoting compassion and peace as per the teachings of the Buddha are war mongers.

 

America, Australia and even India ere at one time occupied by natives but invading conquerers (British/Aryan) massacred these old tribes, to establsih their dominacy and spupremeacy.

 

Hey. there is no need to go back to the past (who came from where or fisrt) the PRESENT (NOW) that the Tamils want RIGHTS in Sri Lanka or SL government learn to make peace with the Tigers. Tamils are not bothered with india's internal problems.

 

(GO read - Mahabharata on the grounds for wagging a WAR )

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

"The earlist settlers were Vedas after the Tamils migration came the Sinhalese Prince and his entourage was bansihed from Bengal."

………yes madhav... if i follow your reasoning all over the world 5000 years ago there was vedic civilization so arabians, turks and afghans are vedic as the indians.....

 

(but you gave a nice answer for the devil/hell subject, very nice.. )

[maadhav]

<< •••if you want to see muslim out of india, maybe the people of sri lanka want to see the tamils go back in tamil nadu, so if your fanaticism is right (i do not think so) it is right also for sri lanka people.. >>

 

you miss to consider a point:

the tamils did not invade sri lanka forcibly,

and they did not try to convert locals by force,

and they did not cause genocide of the locals.

 

the invader muslims did all that in india.

 

[maadhav]

<< yes madhav... if i follow your reasoning all over the world 5000 years ago there was vedic civilization so arabians, turks and afghans are vedic as the indians..... >>

 

once their ancestors possibly were vedic.

but a sanatana dharmi (hindu) is one who accepts the authority of the vedas and lives by it.

 

therefore, one who says he is a muslim or a ., etc, obviously is not a sanatana dharmi and is intolerant of hinduism. and the hindus have no problem with them. they can practice . or islam in their land, not in india.

 

india is for the people who follow the dharma that has grown there, is there, since milleniums.

 

the invader and aggresive ideologies needs to get out of the vedic land.

 

[Guest guest]

the same with the muslims now residents in india, they are born hundreds of years after the invaders.. so if they, innocents, have to go away, also tamils, innocents, have to go away

 

your nationalism is not justice, sattva, dharma... there's so many wrong things in it... it is politic, do not mix it with religion... in kuruksetra you cannot find a little wrong thing, in a real ksatrya you cannot find a little injustice..

 

for doing what you want to do there's tons of bad karma running, and with karma one has to take a new birth and the goal of the life is failed

[maadhav]

<< ..they are born hundreds of years after the invaders.. so if they, innocents, have to go away, ..>>

 

you assume i want them go away.

i do not, if they give up islam.

 

their ancestors were hindus who were forcibly converted.

they have no reason to continue an ideology imposed upon their ancestors. if however, they insist they want to follow islam, then we gave them pakistan and B-desh where they can live, but not on the vedic land.

 

you must know that we hindus did not want to part the country (in 1947) and did not tell them go away. they insisted on a separate land, and so we gave it - pakistan. and still we allowed the muslims to live in india.

dont you think that is more than tolerance of the hindus?

this tolerance is much more than required for tolerance.

 

now it is clear that it was a big mistake. a muslim cannot be grateful to anything a kafir does. the history shows this. so, now we do not want that aggressor ideology in india.

 

you see in justice in this?

a hindu hater will certainly see injustice in anythign a hindu does. i cannot help it.

but hindus ought to rule on hindu homeland.

 

[Guest guest]

<<the same with the muslims now residents in india, they are born hundreds of years after the invaders.. so if they, innocents, have to go away, also tamils, innocents, have to go away>>

 

what do you mean by tamils, innocents, have to go away? Go away from where? Sri-Lanka? If it is the answer, let me tell you seomthing, Sri-lanka is tamil's land. For an example I'll tell you one little thing. Why do you think that there's a Lord Murugan's temple in Kathirgama, which is they say a Sinhaleses' province. They changed the whole history. Sri-Lanka belongs to Tamil, but Sinhaleses' after the invasion of foreign countries, made an agreement with those rulers that no Buddhist must be converted to Christianity, and because Sinaheles' helped foriegn to defeat the Tamil King who was ruling 3/4 of Sri-Lanka, now they have the land, and they changed the histroy. I don't know why Sri-Lankan hindus didn't make an agreement with Christian rulers that no hindus should be converted to Christianity. If you read the true Sri-Lankan history, you can learn that only Hindus have been treated very badly, and a lot of Hindu temples have been destroyed. And a lot of tamils have been converted to Christianity than Sinhalese. And Christian rulers stole everything from hindu temples, such as jeweleries. So, first of all read true Sri-Lankan history and start talking about it.

[Guest guest]

"what do you mean by tamils, innocents, have to go away? "

•••me? i do not want to send anything away.. you are the one moving peoples, fighting, ruling, converting, soldiers, weapon , violence.. not me, yu do not need to discuss with me of history, i am not the enemy of anyone

[maadhav]

what is a good link or book that gives true history of sri-lanka please. rama defeated an asura called ravana, and gave the kingdom to his deevotee vibhishan.

 

who are sinhalese people?

what is their home land?

 

i am interested to know.

thanks.

 

[Guest guest]

<< ..what is a good link or book that gives true history of sri-lanka please.. >

I'm sorry, but you have to wait for a while. Because I read the book in Tamil, I don't think that there's an English version of the book. But I know the author who wrote the book, so I'll contact him and ask him to give me some references in English and pass it to you as soon as possible.

 

<< ..rama defeated an asura called ravana, and gave the kingdom to his deevotee vibhishan.. >

Yes, and maybe the people who lived when Rama came to Sri-Lanka to fight Ravana was Yakkas & Nagas, I don't have much informations about them. But do research about them and if you find out something interesting, please let me know also. thnx.

visit this website, and it gives you a pretty good start on Sri-Lankan history. http://www.lankalibrary.com/cul/yakkas.htm

 

<< ..who are sinhalese people?.. >>

again, i'll give you the references as soon as I get the message from author of the book.

But it's an agreed fact by everyone that Sinahelese people came from India. Read the website I gave you above.

 

<< ..what is their home land?.. >>

probably India. not sure about it.

 

<< ..i am interested to know.. >>

the book i read talk about historical fact about Sri-Lankan tamils and sinhalese... it starts with the invasion of the first chrisitan country, and explains how sinhalese steal the land from tamil. So, if you are interested to know about Rama and Ravana, I suggest you to do a research on Yakka and Nagas, and ancient people of Sri-Lanka!!!

[Guest guest]

Guest wrote "yes madhav... if i follow your reasoning all over the world 5000 years ago there was vedic civilization so arabians, turks and afghans are vedic as the indians..... "

 

Correction ...The Tamil meaning to the term "Veda" in this context refers " Tribal Hunter" The vedas were hunter who lived in the mountainous jungles of sri Lanka. Now they are almost extinct /images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

Btw I am not whom you assume me to be ..

 

If you like to know more about the vedas(hunters) , their religion etc I refer you to the folloiwng web site

 

http://kataragama.org/index.htm

 

regards

 

YRD