Lord Vishnu is Supreme. Also worship Lord Brahma.

[passionate_freak]

There's even more higher realm, the PARABRAMHA...above all the Gods no matter what it is Shiva, Vishnu or Bramha....

[mahak]

Hey PF, who di haole in your avatar.

[gokulkr]

Debate has been going on between vishnu-shiva supremacy from daya of dawn. But bad news for some sect (particularly to saivatees) is that Great Acharyas like Ramanujacharya, Madhvacharya, Vallabhacharya, Nimbarkacharya, Vedanta Desika etc.. have proved clearly that "Lord Narayana is Supreme Brahman" and they have defeated shaiva-scholars , saiva-philosophies.

So no use in debating on the matter which has already been solved & proved.

 

Moreover, we are all petty people. We have to accept the sayings of acharyas. Acharyas say "Lord Narayana" is Supreme.

 

Moreover Puranas are just symbolisation. Each purana hails each diff God is supreme. So debating on basis of puranas is foolish & mindless. Moreover, Saivatees dont tend to come out of "shiva purana". Wat else can they do ? Because apart from shiva-purana they dont have anything in their hands.

 

All the 4 great philosophies - Suddhadvaita, Vishistadvaita, Dvaitadvaitha, Dvaitha point out only "Lord Narayana" as Supreme. So saying that these 4 philosophies are meaningless by shaivatees is foolishness, because all these acharyas have already defeated shaivas and proved "Lord Vishnu" is supreme.

 

Om Namo Narayanaya

[aditya]

and your above story is of what intellectual value. The story is quite childish.

 

The trinity who are considered to be forms of Nirguna Brahman engage in petty power struggle. The very content is Tamasic in nature. I would not even consider this story.

***********************************************************

 

 

 

oh really? since when did iskconites start getting this intelligence to judge whether a story is petty or inttelligent? or maybe u guys dont find such stories intelligent? u might find stories from bhagavatam very intelligent..like brahma testing krishna even thogugh he is a part of brahman coz it attests the supremacy of vishnu..when the same brahma gets bewildered by shive u guys find it "petty"..how about kunti getting pregnant by so many men? throwin away her child which is far worse than abortions which u guys detest? how about applying cowdung on the face? drinking the urine of cows? as validated in bhagavata?how about vishnu having millions of heads and the patience of arjuna for counting them?its very sensible nah? how about krishna crying like a deranged idiot when a fake vasudavas haed was pput in front of him? how about balarama murdering rukmi just becoz he insulted him in a dice game? how about balarama murgering romaharshana jus coz he didnt get up from the arena?u guys are fanatics with a mental imbalance

[aditya]

and no where in mandukya upanishad is it stated tht it is vishnu tht is parabrahma

[new---new]

when scriptures say that at first vishnu was lying on the great ocean (read ocean=consciousness,visnu = vishwa(universe)+ anu(atom) i.e one that permeades every atom of the universe = SPACE)... lying on sesh......(sesh mathamatically means remainder ....I.E REMAINDER OF KARMAS WHICH MAKES SOULS TO BE BORN.(in vishnu===in space).....(SESH IS TAMASIC)...... now from visnu's navel a lotus springs up and from lotus bhrama is born .....bhrama is the first indiavidual in space (duality has arrived)....... now bhrama is troubled by the two demons madhu(means too much ) and kaitabh(too little ) ie excess of indulgence and desire for more indulgence (what he has is perceived to be too little).........bhrama is the first fallen soul (according to prabhupada when a soul falls he first becomes bhrama).........now vishnu is god of maintainence because ... a world of duality can only exist(MAINTAINED)only in SPACE and TIME..............BHRAMA is the god of creation because the world exists only relatively (percieved by bhrama who see himself to be seperate from space(visnnu) and time(shiva,ie kala,ie maha kala) ........ now bhrama is the the lord of creation falls for saraswati his own daughter (saraswati is knowledge(GODDESS OF )(I.E ...RELATIVE KNOWLEDGE)....... saraswati is said to be bhramas daughter because she is born of him ....I.E. she is not created by vishnu(space) or time (kala ,shiva).......BOTTOM LINE = RELATIVE KNOWLEDGE IS BORN OF "THE KNOWER"..........

 

now shiva the god of destruction is a state where the difference between the perciever ,the percieved and perception ....is lost

(those who really want to understand please read the "tripura rahasya.".......if you manage to understand it you will be very pissed to find out what you do ...it is an advaitic and a sakta text)..........

 

shiva is a state of monoism .....the scriptures say that there is no such thing as shiva and soul for where there is a soul shiva is not and where there is shiva there is no soul(duality ie the difference between the perciever and the percieved is lost)...it is the state of advaitic moksh or buddhist nirvana........it is beyond duality .....of existance and non existance............it is in this context that the statement (EKAM BHARM DWITIYA NASTI........is to be understood ..........EKAM BHRAM...ETC......DOES NOT MEAN THERE IS ONE GOD ...........IT MEANS THERE IS ONLY "ONE".......call this "ONE" as god or bhram or parabhram or WHATEVER.........but where this "ONE" exists there is no other .........

 

 

also the superiority of one god over the other is relative superiority of one tattva over other ........when scripture say that shiva is supreme because neither vishnu or bhrama could find his beginning or end ........it means THE STATE OF SHIVAHOOD CANNOT BE PERCIEVED,OR KNOWN IN SPACE(vishnu)OR BY BHRAMA(relative knower)....BECAUSE WHERE THERE IS SHIVA THERE IS NO OTHER ............... WHEN SCRIPTURES SAY THAT VISHNU IS SUPREME ...IT IS INDEED TRUE BECAUSE WHERE THERE IS PERCEPTION OF VISHNU(space..in a duality world) ....THERE IS NO SHIVA.(state of oneness)................

 

AGAIN THE SCRIPTURES AT TIMES TALK ABOUT VISHNU AS space TATTVA and at other time as PARABHRAM .............at times they talk about SHIVA ..as TIME tattva ...and at other times as parabhram.......................all statement of scriptures are true when understood in the right context........but in this day and age people have neither time nor inclination to research everything ....

 

 

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT THE ABOVE INTERPRETATION OF THE SCRIPTURES IS BASED ON THE INTERPRETATION ACCORDING TO THE "TATTAVAS"but there are many interpretations....based on jnana,bhakti,mantras,tantras,yagnas,kriyas(for kriya yogis).......etc......

 

 

 

the rishis who wrote the scriptures were GENIOUS....

 

but as JALALUDDIN RUMI ... the sufi mystic would say ......"we have all said and heard ..but as for the way to go Words are no prepration........

 

if anyone thinks that any of the rishis or a saint was a fool then he needs to look into the mirror to find an even greater fool(please dont take this personally---A request to all)

 

 

so everyone ..lets stop fighting ....just do your daily practice ..follow the rules ..and follow your guru....walking the path will reveal the truth through experience ..and then you would need no theory..........

[atanu]

 

---shiva is a state of monoism .....the scriptures say that there is no such thing as shiva and soul for where there is a soul shiva is not and where there is shiva there is no soul(duality ie the difference between the perciever and the percieved is lost)...it is the state of advaitic moksh or buddhist nirvana........it is beyond duality .....of existance and non existance............it is in this context that the statement (EKAM BHARM DWITIYA NASTI........is to be understood ..........EKAM BHRAM...ETC......DOES NOT MEAN THERE IS ONE GOD ...........IT MEANS THERE IS ONLY "ONE".......call this "ONE" as god or bhram or parabhram or WHATEVER.........but where this "ONE" exists there is no other .........

 

---

 

Namaskar,

 

Nicely said. Shiva is the substratum, where there is no dvittiya. Shivoadvaitamatama. ONE who never slumbers.

 

Om

[atanu]

 

---shiva is a state of monoism .....the scriptures say that there is no such thing as shiva and soul for where there is a soul shiva is not and where there is shiva there is no soul(duality ie the difference between the perciever and the percieved is lost)...it is the state of advaitic moksh or buddhist nirvana........it is beyond duality .....of existance and non existance............it is in this context that the statement (EKAM BHARM DWITIYA NASTI........is to be understood ..........EKAM BHRAM...ETC......DOES NOT MEAN THERE IS ONE GOD ...........IT MEANS THERE IS ONLY "ONE".......call this "ONE" as god or bhram or parabhram or WHATEVER.........but where this "ONE" exists there is no other .........

 

---

 

Namaskar,

 

Nicely said. Shiva is the substratum, where there is no dvittiya. Shivoadvaitaatma. ONE who never slumbers.

 

Om

[indulekhadasi]

Why are you people uselessly fighting? By the way Vyasadeva is a saktyavesa avatar of Lord Visnu.

 

Hare Krishna.

[devilwrld]

“There are two mahaa-phala daayaka Vrukshas. One by the name Vaasudeva and the other by the name Vaamadeva. They differ only in their sumas (flowers) (’su’ is replaced by ‘ma’ in their names), but both give the same phalas (fruits, which is moksham)”. It is also often said, “How much one does not see the difference between Shiva and Vishnu, that much his aayu will increase”.

One day, when Lakshmi and Vishnu were together in vihaaram, Lakshmi sees Ucchaishravam, her brother, the horse of Revanta who is the son of Surya. Engrossed in seeing her brother, she does not reply to the repeated calls of Vishnu. Seeing her attraction, Vishnu gives her shaapam to go to Bhulokam in the form of a horse and come back to Vaikuntam only after getting a son equal to Himself! She comes to Bhuloka to experience the shaapam and realizing that none other than her brother, Shiva can help her calm Vishnu, she immediately does a tapas for Him and Shiva appears to save her soodari. Lakshmi says “You and Vishnu are both same, the Paramaatma. Please help me!”. Shiva says “Soodari! How do you know that we both are same? All learned people know that. Who told you?”. Lakshmi says, “Once Mahavishnu Himself told me this. Seeing Him in deep Daiva-dhyaanam, I asked Him “During Samudramanthanam, I thought you were the greatest of all and hence chose you. Devaadideva! Who is better than you that you are in dhyaanam of Him?”. Mahavishnu replied “I am doing Shankara-dhyaanam. He is Eshwara. He is the same as Me. All learned people know that. If someone is my devotee but still hates Shiva, he will fall into naraka”.

Saying this, She asks Shiva to pursuade Vishnu to bless Her with a child. Shiva sends Chitrarupa as a duta to convince Vishnu. Vishnu immediately accepts and comes to Bhuloka and blesses Lakshmi with Ekaveera, who is equal to Vishnu Himself. From Ekaveera came forth the Haihaya dynasty, of which the most noted king is Kartavirya Arjuna (Ekaveera’s grandson).

 

Once when Naarada, the avatar of Vishnu, recited prayers glorifying Lord Shiva as the supreme controller of the universe, Lord Shiva, the best of Vaishnavas, at once covered his ears and angrily replied, “I am not the Lord of the universe, nor an object of Krishna’s mercy! I am just a poor aatma always hankering for the favor of the servants of His servants.” (Thus in this small story, Naarada, avataar of Vishnu, glorifies Shiva as the Paramaatma and Shiva glorifies Vishnu as the Paramaatma!)

 

The story of Hanuman, who is the 11th avataar of Shiva and Raama, the purna avataar of Vishnu also reveals the same. Both of them acheived great tasks:

 

1. Restricting the great samudram, Raama along with His entire army crossed the satpa-samudras! Hanuman, in one small jump, crossed it!
   
2. In the greatest, unparalleled ghora-yuddham, which was never seen before or will ever be seen, Raama killed Raavana! Hanuman killed Mairaavana, who was many times stronger than Raavana, with great ease!
   
3. Krishna lifted Govardhana giri, balanced on his little finger and saved the lives of Gopaalas! Hanuman brought the Sanjeevani Parvatam from Himaalayas to Lanka and saved Lakshmana!
   
4. Raama melted a stone, with the touch of His lotus feet, for Ahalya! Hanuman melted a stone with His sweet Gandharva gaanam!

Though they did great tasks like this, always Hanuman worshipped Raama, with great Vinayam. And Raama worshipped Shiva with unparalleled devotion. (If one closely observes, for Paramaatma these tasks are not at all difficult/big. For He does everything right from Shrushti to Layam. And He only resides in everyone and gives life. However, since we cannot even imagine His power, we praise Him for these “small” tasks only )

 

 

Impressed by the great tapas of Viṣhṇu for Paramaśiva, Śiva gave Viṣhṇu the Sudarshana Cakram.

 

Annamaacharya, the great Vaak-geya-kaaraka of Aandhra Pradesh, in one of his divya sankeertana “Enta maatramuna evvaru talichina ….” says:

How much ever one imagines that much only are You:

 

• For Vaishnavas You are Vishnu
  
• For Vedaantas You are Parabrahma
  
• For Shaivas and other bhaktas You are Shiva
  
• For Kaapaalikas You are Kaala-Bhairava
  
• For Shaakteyaas You are Shakti
  
• For people with alpa-buddhi You appear as alpam
  
• For people who know Your Garima and have Ghana-buddhi You are a Ghana

Once Shri Krishna, the avataar of Mahaavishnu, came to Upamanyu maharshi, when he was at Himaalayas. Shri Krishna said “Upamanyu muniindra! You are the greatest in the Shiva Bhaktas. I came here to do Tapas of Paramashiva to get santaanam. Please teach Me Shaiva-vidhi and vidhaanam”.

Upamanyu replied “O Shri Krishna! I know who You are. Shiva puuja is not new to You. Though You know it, to make everybody know, I will tell You …” Saying thus, Upamanyu told Shri Krishna how to do Shiva-aaraadhana.

 

This happened after the episode of Naarada, coming under Vishnu maaya, gives shaapam to Vishnu: (This is one of the reasons of Shri Raama avatar)

Naarada says “Svaami! Please forgive Me. I, coming under influence of Your maaya, got ahankaar and did Your ninda. Please tell Me what can save Me from this ghora-paapam”. Vishnu says:

“O Priya Naarada! You go and do paaraayana of Shankara Shatanaamams. Then You will get Shaanti. Shiva is whom I respect the most. Even by mistake dont forget this. One who doesnt have Shiva-anugraham cannot be My Bhakta. Believe this … Then My maaya wont affect you.”

 

 

Once Vyaasa Bhagavaan came under the influence of Shiva-maaya and started telling in his Pravachanams that Vishnu is greater than Shiva. Once Nandeeshvara also heard Vyaasa Bhagavaan saying this. Vishnu Murty then appeared before Veda Vyaasa and told Him “O Maharshi! Dont you know that I and Shiva are the same? Knowing this why are you telling like this in your pravachanams?” Veda Vyaasa then had great pashchaattaapam and asked Kshama from Nandeeshvara.

 

The phalam of Vishnu Pooja is Shiva Bhakti — the example is that of Arjuna. Arjuna ofcourse was the greatest Shri Krishna Bhakta. But it was Shiva who gave Arjuna moksham, when Arjuna was born as Bhakta Kannappa, in the great Kaalahastsi Kshetram.

Similarly the phalam of Shiva Pooja is Shri Raama Bhakti — the examples are stories of Kaaka Bhushundiand Valmiki Maharshi. Kaaka Bhushundi was a great Shiva Bhakta and hence Shiva grants him Raama Bhakti Saamraajyam. Valmiki did tapas for Shiva using the Panchaakshari mantram given to him by the great Saptarshis and as a result became the Aadi Kavi and wrote the great Raamaayanam.

 

Raasaleela. It was the day when the “punya-vruksham” of Gopikas delivered its ripe fruits, called Moksham. It was the day when the Aaraadhana of Gopikas was blessed by Lord Krishna. Gopikas realized Shri Krishna, the Sarvaantaryaami, everywhere. As a result of their Aaraadhana-bhakti they realized the paramaatma’s poorna-svaroopam with each one of them. Who could miss watching the Raasaleela, where the Lord showered His Karuna-jyotsna ? All the Brahma-aadi devatas were present.

 

 

Parama Shiva, the greatest bhakta of Shri Krishna, was also present in the form of a Gopika. Shri Krishna, who is always in nirantara-shiva-dhyaanam, searched for Parameshvara. Finally He realized that Shiva is none other than one of the Gopikas having sampoorna aanandam of dancing with Him. Shri Krishna paramaatma then does stuti of Eshvara and asks to bless them by staying there at Vrundaavanam by the name of Gopeeshvara.

Even today we can visit Lord Shiva, in the form of Gopeeshvara, at Vrundaavanam.

 

 

Morals in the Story:

 

1. Shiva and Vishnu are the same.
   
2. Both Raama and Hanuman did such super-human tasks, but they were never having even a bit of Ahankaar. They always were humble
   
3. So Saivaites dont insult Vishnu and Vaishnavities dont insult Shiva by calling him " Demi god ".

Guru Brahma Guru Vishu Guru Devo Maheshwaraha

Guru Sakshat Para Brahma Thasmai Sri Guruve namaha.

[kbdas]

 

" But Bhagavath Gita is not written by any sage, but spoken by God himself."

 

That is just your opinion, Vaishnavas may believe that also, but other Hindus believe the Gita was writen by Sage Vyasa or many Sage(s) which is just another Upanishad and is not the word of God. If you believe the Gita to be spoken by the historical Krishna himself, where is your proof? Historians research found that it was written between 500-300BC, not around 3000BC.

 

The Vedas say little about Lord Vishnu, which is surprising if he is supposed to be the supreme God.

 

Sri Vishnu's abode is mentioned in Rg Veda as "paramam padam"----As the blazing sun pervades the entire sky like an eye fixed in the heavens, so the divine seers eternally perceive that supreme abode of Visnu." Much of the ritualistic portion of Vedas would not concern worship of Sri Vishnu. That is my ( admittedly meagre ) understanding. Also, Purush Sukta is addressed to Sri Vishnu. And I do not believe historians and most Hindus to be synonymous. Most Hindus, Vaishnavas or not, believe the Gita was spoken by Sri Krishna.

[kd gupta]

Pranam

Gita is full of word I , people wonder that how Krsn addresses himself as Vishnu and also at one place he says that he is Vasudeo in Vrashnish .

Just we try to look into these Vedmantras….

Urugayay vrashne…Urugayasya vrashnah 3,6/154/1mandalam rig veda .

We find that veda prays for vishnu as vrashnah , same as krsn hints him to come from vrashnish .

Again take another vedmantra ….

Aa Krsnen rajasa vartmano niveshyanmratam martyam cha 43/33 yaj

Follow the path as the sun follows and as krsn directed .

Now that krsn is coming on the midnight [ I think rohini nakshatra falls and good time to come for a chitchor ] of 2nd sept 2010 ,so all krsn lovers be awake .

Jai sri krsn , the international makhan chor .

[playingforgms]

"Only pious people can recognise the essence of vedas (not ignorant ones)." This statement I find myself in complete agreement with you;-)

 

त्रिभिर्गुणमयैर्भावैरभिः सर्वमिदं जगत् । मोहितं नाभिजानाति मामेभ्यः परमव्ययम् ॥७–१३

This (इदं) complete universe (जगत् सर्वम्) is deluded (मोहितं) with the threefold condition of modes of the external energy or 'gunas' (त्रिभिर्गुणमयैर्भावैरभिः); Certainly no one knows (नाभिजानाति) Me (माम) who is beyond them (एभ्यः), Immutable (अव्ययम्) and Eternally Supreme (परम).

[playingforgms]

I liked your note but slightly discomfited on just one count...as below:

 

आत्मसंभाविता: स्तब्धा धनमानमदान्विता:

यजन्ते नामयज्ञैस्ते दम्भेनाविधिपूर्वकम् ।।16-17।।

आत्मसंभाविता: = अपने आपको ही श्रेष्ठ मानने वाले ; स्तब्धा: = घमण्डी पुरुष ; धनमानमदान्विता: = धन और मान के मद से युक्त; अविधिपूर्वकम् = शास्त्रविधि से रहित ; नामयज्ञै: = केवल नाममा़त्र के यज्ञों द्वारा ; दम्भेन = पाखण्ड से ; यजन्ते = यजन करते हैं ;

इदं ते नातपस्काय नाभक्ताय कदाचन ।

न चाशुश्रूषवे वाच्यं न च मां योअ्भ्यसूयति ॥१८–६७॥

You should never disclose this science to one devoid of austerities, nor to one who is not devoted, nor to one adverse to spiritual advancement and NEVER TO ANYONE who is envious of Me.

[anisha_astrologer]

lord brahma, vishnu and mahesh (shiva) are all a part of the holy trinity. one is creator, other is nurturer and the third is destroyer. all three are symbolic of the basic necessity of life and the cycle of life. it is foolish to say that one is supreme and the other is not. in the puranas there are numerous instances where all three say that the other one is supreme. this shows their humility. they are powerful yet grounded then why can't their followers do the same and remain humble.

[Dahmendra Sriskanda]

I think that Lord Krishna's supremacy has been proved when he revealed the universal form that includes Lord Brahma & Lord Shiva.

Astronomical datings based on the Mahabharata has been put to 5000 years. So if the Mahabharata have really occur, that means the Bhagavad Gita is also true & it happened during the war. I have realised that most of the sayings in the Bhagavad Gita is really true. This + many more scientific prove have strengthen by faith in Lord Krishna & I now believe that Lord Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

[deviator]

i believe both Shiva and Vishnu are supreme....but i have one question- does any of the vedas mention the existence of dinosaurs?

[Abh]

My dear, first of all, u must know that lord krishna existed on the earth which has been proved by the archeologists. Dwarkapuri has been discovered deep inside the see whose design matches with those written in mahabharata. So many authentic materials have been discovered which give a solid proof of the lord's existence. Second thing is that if you go through the mahabharata, you will find that whole war was carried away by lord krishna, but sage vyasa documented the war in a single epic, so, there is nothing wrong in it to say that geeta is krishna's words which was documented in a single book by ved vyasa. And if the matter is of lord vishnu in vedas, you are correct that vedas have said a little about vishnu but in these little hymns only, he has been given the supremity and there is nothing wrong in it, you can go through rig veda and find that its true. Archeologists have also revealed that there has been a war around 3000 bc in kurushetras, bones have been discovered from the land which are emitting nuclear radiations still which proves that devastating weapons were used there. All these have been discovered through carbon dating. So, your assumption is wrong that krishna is not historical.