re:karma

[subroto]

We believe that we have to suffer karma for our actions...do our intentions for those actions ever make a difference? Does god make a difference based on intentions and knowledge? How about some of the isolated tribes all over the world such as the amazon...a lot of people lead a sinful life according to hindu standards. But a lot of them don't know any better, they are brought up that way..is that fact considered by god at all? In other words. Does god differentiate between someone who commits sinful acts unkowingly and another who leads a sinful act despite having known the truth?

[Guest guest]

these populations are there.... for karma!! so being in a situation where it is difficul to act properly is also karma.

 

we come in this world (falling from vaikunta) first in the position of sri brahma... so there's not partiality, everyone has the same possibility to come back in the dharma or to be more and more entangled in the karma...

 

from this falldown, very easily ve come at a situation so complicated and so difficult to understand that it is very easy to see it as an injustice by god..

 

anyway... if one who knows the dharma or sanatana dharma makes the same sin of some unfortunate tribal men... (tribes in the amazon, or tribes in the skyscrapers.. no real difference) his karma is much more heavy,,, because he knows clearly what he's doing and he has no justification from ignorance.. like if a judge or a minister or king, president, or a priest, go against laws

 

so your question: "Does god differentiate between someone who commits sinful acts unkowingly and another who leads a sinful act despite having known the truth? " has to be surely answered... YES

 

this is a basic principle of justice.. one has to consider the global situation of the person before giving a fault

 

but we all are subjected to go back and forth from good and bad situations of life, animal lifes, lifes as poor, handicapped, lunatics, possessed by phantoms, phantoms and so on... now we gain, tomorrow we will necessarily pay... now new yorker manager in skyscraper, tomorrow croak or mouse or homeless near the same skyscraper..

 

let us chant the name of the lord sri hari and quit this samsara going back to him... and helping others going back with us

[barney]

Everything one does in lif is karma. If it is good than it is considered good karma and if it is bad than it bad karma. Your question about tribes in the amazon jungle and other parts of the world, even in the jungles of France you will see trible people who have not come into the civilized world but they are better of than we civilized morons. You see, the trible people have certain principle and they would not go beyond that whereas we civilized morons would do anything to satisfy our ego.

 

Yes, God protects them too although they do not know of any verdic rituals or laws of the scriptures. They are simple people who go by their daily life only to survive and not take more than that. They kill for the day to survive and not take anything more than that for the day. That is survival for them. Whereas we civilized morons although knowing very well that gluttony and greed are sin yet wedo it to please ourself and our family. But not those in the jungle. The difference between thme and us is we are all human but of different calibre. It is thier karma to be there and it is our karma to be here but we do not know who will reach the abode of the Supreme Brahman. Coz they will be judged according to their karma while we would be judged according to our karma.

 

The Spanish crusaders thought they were doing them a favor

and pleasing God by converting some of them into Christianity but in actual fact they have sinned against God

by doing so and that is why Spain suffered under the Islamic rule. It is their karma to be born into trible group and when thier cycle is over they would go back to him. It is not for us to decide into which religion they should be. If God wanted he would have not created such tribes but as the law of karma works in mistries ways it has to be so. Who are we to decide who should be what and where?

 

You have been placed in a category according to you past karma and if you live by the laws of dharma as you deem fit than you will get his grace and so will others. Let us all try to live by the laws of dharma or at least have compassion for our fellow human beings rather than thinking of making others our slaves.

[Guest guest]

". They are simple people who go by their daily life only to survive and not take more than that. They kill for the day to survive and not take anything more than that for the day"

 

remember that they are not guilty as if they were in a "civilized" country with plenty of fruit, vegetables and so on... but killing calls killing, if a poor "savage" kills a fish to eat it, the fish in the future will be a man and he will kill the fisherman now in a fish body

 

there's some justification but not at the point to avoid to pay for killing

[barney]

If it is the fate of the fish to be killed and eaten that no one can stop it. As you cannot stop and accident from happening. What is karma is clearly explained. If bad actions are committe by a person than he will be treated with bad karma. The actions of yesterday is seen today and what is being done today will be seen tomorrow so is life. What has been done in past life will determine by this life and what is done in this life will determine the next life. The cycle wil not end until one comes to realize the Supreme Brahman on his on, not be you or me.

 

The are 1.2 billion Muslims plus another l.5 billion Christians are comsuming all kinds of meat such as poultry, cattle, sheeps, goats, fish and so on. Now tell me why are this people continue eating for generations after generations and yet there seem no action from the Amighty. reason is to eat the animals is their fate and to be eaten by these people is the animals fate and none can change that until and unless God himself decends to eathr in his onw form to change all that. But of course if he does that man being always qurious and doubtful would doubt his appearance too. He migh just call him another magician.

 

Say or think what you want but as long as the law of karma is at work all this will go on and it is actuall a lesson for the righteous to understand the mysterious ways God works his plan on earthlings.

[Guest guest]

If it is the fate of the fish to be killed and eaten that no one can stop it. As you cannot stop and accident from happening.

••karma means action... if fate is the sovereign why we kall karma instead of fate? so there's a limited freedom to act good or bad to have an improvement of our conditions in the next life... of course the only solution to quit all this mess is transcendence... in this way one come back to vaikunta world and action/reaction problems end

 

The are 1.2 billion Muslims plus another l.5 billion Christians are comsuming all kinds of meat such as poultry, cattle, sheeps, goats, fish and so on. Now tell me why are this people continue eating for generations after generations and yet there seem no action from the Amighty.

••the action from the almighty is simply that if you are surcharged and loaded of karmic reactions to pay it is extremely difficult to find a way for trascendence. So we have many reactions for adharmic behaviours or simply the most bad reaction is that if we are dulled by a criminal behaviour, if we are deeply in the tamo guna, it is very difficult to accept a way to quit this material world... this is the real bad reaction to these bad actions. And poor tribal people are of course millions of times less guilty than apparently "evolute" people doing adharmic actions without any justification

 

none can change that until and unless God himself decends to eathr in his onw form to change all that.

••and you are right... god is already descended many times, also for western countries, also for some tribals, in the last years also with the worldwide spreading of sanatana dharma in the form of harinama samkirtana starting to wipe away the karma reactions of humanity..... but we have also to do our best to avoid sinful actions, god will help us to do it

 

Say or think what you want

••sure

 

but as long as the law of karma is at work all this will go on

••of course... material world is not without problems, otherwise we would call him vaikunta(=no problems)

 

and it is actuall a lesson for the righteous to understand the mysterious ways God works his plan on earthlings.

••more exactly a lesson to tech us that everything is under the control of an universal law... and if there's the law, there's also a supreme who writes laws... sri bhagavan

[subroto]

....The Spanish crusaders thought they were doing them a favor

and pleasing God by converting some of them into Christianity but in actual fact they have sinned against God

by doing so and that is why Spain suffered under the Islamic rule. It is their karma to be born into trible group and when thier cycle is over they would go back to him. It is not for us to decide into which religion they should be. If God wanted he would have not created such tribes but as the law of karma works in mistries ways it has to be so. Who are we to decide who should be what and where?..

 

Could there be a possibility that it was also some of the tribal peoples karma to have been converted by the spanish conquistadors??

 

Secondly are you saying that if we see someone doing something wrong ..we shouldn't say anything to that person since its their karma do do that?? So if you notice that your child is doing something wrong, won't you correct him/her?? or would you say its his/her karma to commit sinful acts?

 

[maadhav]

<< In other words. Does god differentiate between someone who commits sinful acts unkowingly and another who leads a sinful act despite having known the truth? >>

 

yes, and no.

 

if a child plays with fire with an intention to have fun.

fire would not get cool for the child.

 

if some one drinks poison with the intent to drink juice.

the poision will not change its property.

 

if some one kills another without any intention to kill, but kills by innocent mistake, the court may not punish such a man as severely as one kills intentionally. similalry, god also reduces punishment for such acts. reaction of such karma then is milder.

 

in this world every one influences the other to do something or not do something. a culture propagetes when older genertion teaches something to newer genertion.

 

gov.s want people to do something and not do something,

and people want gov. to do somethings and not do somethings.

 

a soceity or time is bad when most actions there are akarma - bad karma. bad karma is that which does not produce happiness for good people for longer time.

 

krishna talks in gita about good and bad karma

and good and bad people.

 

life is to influence and get influenced.

problem happens only when we cause bad influence or get bad influence.

 

please read it.

 

 

[subroto]

....The Spanish crusaders thought they were doing them a favor

and pleasing God by converting some of them into Christianity but in actual fact they have sinned against God

by doing so and that is why Spain suffered under the Islamic rule. It is their karma to be born into trible group and when thier cycle is over they would go back to him. It is not for us to decide into which religion they should be. If God wanted he would have not created such tribes but as the law of karma works in mistries ways it has to be so. Who are we to decide who should be what and where?..

 

Could there have been any bad karma in the past due to which india suffered the barbarian invasion of islam just like spain did??

[Guest guest]

We all know that hinduism was once widespread in the world, maybe hindus did something wrong back then that they suffered karma for. I'm not saying that I know this for a fact but it might be a possibility.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"We all know that hinduism was once widespread in the world"

 

sanatana dharma, not hinduism

 

the bad karma was simply the advent of kali yuga

[Guest guest]

hello i need som help on a assessment i have to do? on the Amazon rain forest! trible people can any1 rite me stuff plz ill give a info on ma msn ! hornyman_15@hotmail.com plz help

[narayanadasa]

Jai Sriman Narayan:

 

If it is the fate of the fish to be killed and eaten that no one can stop it. As you cannot stop and accident from happening.

••karma means action... if fate is the sovereign why we kall karma instead of fate? so there's a limited freedom to act good or bad to have an improvement of our conditions in the next life... of course the only solution to quit all this mess is transcendence... in this way one come back to vaikunta world and action/reaction problems end

Somehow I dont think fate is compatible with Karma. Fate in general is something that you dont have control over, something very much pre-destined and mainly applies to cases where the law of Karma is not believed. You do have some control over future when you talk about Karma but fate seems to contradict this. In general someone who does not believe in Rebirth talks about fate. For example; the fish getting eaten is not its fate, but I would say it is still based on its past karma. Usually, when someone says fate, the later-part of what happens after fate is unknown. But, when you speak of Karma, we atleast know that the soul gets another body (as any of the 8400000 species). So, fate and Karma dont seem to go well together.

When someone talks about fate, when they see different people in different situations like some baby being born blind and another baby being born with all good features can generally say that as fate. When asked why God made this distinction?, end us saying that God is Partial which again cannot be reconciled with their own religious beliefd. In the end they usually dont have a convincing answer. But if we talk about Karma, since we believe in rebirth the simple answer is Karma (not just fate)

 

May be I am wrong, please comment.

[Guest guest]

"Somehow I dont think fate is compatible with Karma".

 

I think so too. Recently one 'ranga' in the forum says that it's fate that in advaitha all gods are accepted and so there is tolerance among the indians for other religion.

 

I have heard in a morning pravachan in TV by an ISKONite, that people who donate eyes after their death are gathering bad-Karma, as they are trying to change the god-decided-fate of the people who are in need of eyes. The concept of fate is seeded too deep in ISKONites and vaishnavites, that it develops a huge inertia to offer help.

 

A Iyengar dominated Madras music acadamy wanted to continue with their evening music sabha, even after the fateful morning the tsunami had struck during the Dec-04.

 

The vaishnavites craze with fate might have origins from their excessive worry about what will happen in Kali yuga, what will happen to their next janma, "how will lord vishnu rate me after I get to heaven", lots of similar calculations and computations for their future and next janmas. Their is no value to krishna's appeal to arjuna to act based on his duty NOW for the battle realizing his spiritual self and with nishkama karma, in the attempt to overcome bondage and attachements.

 

In advaitha, bondage to ones own self distinct from the rest of gods creation is also attachement. So calling it as others fate, is highting of the difference with the other. That itself is bondage.

 

It's the fate of people that even with embracing the scriputres and vedas, their interpretation of it is such as to promote more attachement. This is a wrong statement. The correct statement is that these vaishnavas need help.

 

[ranga]

"Recently one 'ranga' in the forum says that it's fate that in advaitha all gods are accepted and so there is tolerance among the indians for other religion.

 

I called 'Its their fate' in a different sense which is irrelevant to this topic of discussion.

 

We say like "it is his fate to remain an introvert as he is reserved" when somebody or group we cannot expect to change a little and they are forced to accept the inference of their theory.Hence Advaitin has no other go but to equate anything and everything to religious path.Please read fully in the context before coming to criticize Vaishnavas in every thread message.

[narayanadasa]

Jai Sriman Narayan:

 

I heard in a Pravachanam by an Advaita Aacharya where he refers to Hindus (or in general people who believe in Rebirth) are the only "non-fate" believers in the world. I think the Aacharya also has a book by name "God, Rebirth and the Vedas (ISBN 8122405061) an English translation of Kannada book Prathama Sopana". I believe this book is basically the content of the Pravachanam he gave 2 years ago. So, what I am trying to say is whether it is Vaishnavas or Shaivas the basic concept of fate is not really believed in the real sense. I hope to ask this question to a Vaishnava AAcharya too.

 

Hope this is useful.