Stop Abusing and Offending Adi Shankara

[Ram Raksha Balaji]

I wonder how many people who wrote comments above are Hindus, aka Sanatana Dharmis! The entire thread has been full of venom. If this continues, Muslims and Christians will just eat us with the help of our "rational" politicians. Let me tell you one thing:- My father is a Smartha, and a devout follower of the Late Sri Kaanchi Maha Swamigal Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswati. For my mother, on the other hand, everthing in this world is Sri Raghavendra Swami. She comes from an orthodox Madhva family. What sampradaya should I follow? Smartha or Madhva, or shall I take a new one? Allow me to say that I always think of Jagadguru Adi Shankara Bhagavadpada, but at the same time, for the past few days I am crazy of mahaans like Sri Vyasaraja Thirtha, Sri Vaadiraja Thirtha, Sri Chaitanya, etc. I like them very much. I literally cried when I read the Brindavana pravesa of Sri Vyasaraja swami. Yes, I know. Few saints of the Sringeri Sharada math stole the manuscripts from Madhvacharya's library once. It does not mean that Adi Shankaracharya is a bad or useless person! What do you know about him?? I should tell you one thing. Go ask a small child, which sampradaya it follows! Does it know such things??

I adore Adi Shankaracharya, Ramanuja, Madhvacharya, Nimbarka, Vallabhacharya, Chaitanya Prabhu, Nayanmars, Azhwars, and etc etc. I am moved by the compassion of the Buddha and Lord Mahavira! A few stray incidents have happened always.

Srila Prabhupada, honorable founder of the ISKCON has done a great job by preaching dharma to the West! But what is the need for scolding the Smarthas as "Mayavadi Rascals" and that too to the Foreigners. If true Godmen do not consider anyone as enemies, why should they speak so? Did Ramanuja, Madhvacharya, Chaitanya or Raghavendra Swami called them so? No. How can a sannyasi call another sannyasi as a RASCAL?? I was shocked. Let me tell you, when I read those lines, Srila Prabhupada vacated his place from my heart!! And I saw someone saying "I dont know any Saivite saints coming to the help of the devotees". Have you ever prayed to a Saivite or a Smartha saint before? Pray sincerely, and then you will know how treacherous your words were!! So if they come, will you rush to them? Suppose that someone says Jesus or Allah come to devotees' rescue earlier than Raghavendra Swami. If so, will you leave Guru Rayaru and go behind them? Is this what Sanatana Dharma teaches you??

It is like some lady saying "that man is more manly than my husband, hence I will abandon my husband and go behind him!" You all know what is the name given to such women!! Do you think Sriman Narayana will be happy if you insult Adi Shankaracharya?? I saw someone from ISKCON forum saying Ramanuja and Madhva incarnated to save people from the bogus idea of Shankara. Idiots! If Shankara's idea was bogus, why did Narasimha moorthy appear to save Shankara when he was about to be killed by the Kaapalika? Why did Narayana appear before him and said my idol is in Alaknanda river. Take it and install it in Badri temple?? If he had'nt done so, will you people go and worship Badri Narayan?? If Shankara's idea was bogus, why did Mahalakshmi immediately shower gold coins when the seven-year old tiny tot chanted the Kanakadhara stothra?? Don't talk rubbish without knowing anything!! What is the difference between you and aggressive Christian missionaries like John Dayal, Judson Abhraham or Dinakaran??

Mind you, Vishnu wont be happy with you people at all!

You know what punishment is instore for you?? Punarapi Maranam, Punarapi Jananam, Punarapi Jananae Jagarae Shayanam!!

If Shiva worship is false, why did Sri Vyasaraja Thirtha compose a Sivasthuthi on Sri Virupaksheeswara??

Listen, I joined this community on seeing these blasphemous posts. I wanted to tarnish these ill-suited Hindus. What the hell do you think in your mind? How many years will you fools be divided?? From when did these Smartha, Sri Vaishnava, Madhva, Sanakadhi, Rudra or Gaudiya sampradayas emerge?? Is Hinduism only made of these sampradayas?? Before Adi Shankara, were'nt there Hindus? Was'nt there Vedas?? I will tell you something, I stopped putting Vibhoodhi on my forehead before some days, you know why? Because I don't want to confine myself to the Smatha sampradaya! I am a Hindu, I am a Dharmi, I am a Buddhist, I am a Jain!!

Final words... Tomorrow, Mullahs and Missionaries will take care of India. At that time, they won't give any concession for a Smartha, a Sri Vaishnava, a Madhva, or a Gaudiya. If you are a Hindu, you will be destroyed. All would have studied the story of four bulls and a lion. Remember, unity is strength! Shame on you people! You are not Hindus at all!!! You know one thing? A French man named Francois Gautier has started a campaign titled "Hindu Gurus come together for protecting dharma", and here you Brahmin aggressors are fighting as to who's acharya is greater. Stupids, go and drink his urine, even then you won't change! What is the need for a French man to be so concerned of Hinduism, he can go in his way. But he is taking pains, and you fools are still fighting! When are you going to change. If anyone had spoken in person before me, I would have assaulted them!!

Let Bhagavan, Gods, Demi-gods, Sages, Saints, and yogis teach you what is good!!

Jai Shri Ram!!!!!

[Ram Raksha Balaji]

Ha, when did Swami Vivekananda tell this? You think you are so clever? Furnish the evidence, if you have any...

[easwar trichy]

 

Adi Shankara is the incarnation of Siva(hence the name), so Vaisnavas shouldn't commit offenses to him.

 

Also I think Caitanya is a better person to compare to Ramanuja than Srila Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada. Caitanya was the initiator of Gaudiya practises, Shrila Prabhupada was following the teachings of Caintanya 400 years later. He was not creating his own beleif system.

 

good bad, poor rich, day night= dualism

 

unless this vasthu gyan or desire towards vasthu till then one has to go under grief/sorrow

 

Since there are different kind of people and different mind saint will give medicine according to people disease (mind). All thovaitham, vicishta thuvaitham and advaitham are true but it works according to individual. because all individual has differences and differences has lot of difference hence one has to live with difference, when you abandon those will realaize the truth where there will be no difference.

 

hare krishna.

 

easwar trich

[The Sage Nabooru]

Indeed, this is little different from when the Protestant Christians condemn the Catholic Christians for "following the wrong leader" (the Pope), while forgetting that they worship the same God.

 

Hindus worship the same God, we simply approach God differently on an individual level and it is God's will that we choose the path in which we can relate best to God. Whether that is Advaita, Dvaita, Vishishadvaita, Dvaitadvaita, or whatever school we choose, they are all correct because they all lead us to the same place which is nearness to God. I think what happens after moksha is between us and God depending on what we prefer and that God in God's mercy and compassion will allow us that.

[rsajan]

 

Ha, when did Swami Vivekananda tell this? You think you are so clever? Furnish the evidence, if you have any...

 

The page number [in the book] is given in my Post itself.

[gourshyam]

There is no question of criticizing any Acharya.

 

Mayavad theory is not acceptable for devotees of the Lord, as becoming one with God would destroy any chance of performing devotional service.The life and soul of bhakti is devotional service and the ultimate aim of bhakti is also devotional service! The bhakta doesn't desire anything else, including five types of mukti.

 

Anybody and everybody is not God, jeeva can never become one with God.

 

Besides, worship of devi-devatas doesn't constitute the worship of God. This is proved by the Shrimad Bhagwad Geeta verse

"yanti deva-vrata devan....".

 

Anyway, people have their sensivitivies and faiths. So this topic cannot be discussed in this forum.

 

Every spiritual practitioner reaches some end, some destination. If someone finds it to be the highest aim to merge with the Brahma-jyoti, it is their choice. If somebody considers all devi-devatas as equal to God (Vishnu),that is also their choice. The destination achieved will be according to the path one follows.

 

Why should we quarrel over it? We can get whatever we want, provided we follow the proper spiritual path.

[gourshyam]

Our existence in the material world denotes a negative position. The jeevas living a materially conditioned existence are simply wandering through the cycle of birth-death-birth propelled by the reactions of karma.

The jeeva is in a position of aversion to the Supreme Being.

 

When one reaches the ground zero, ie. a position of neutrality with respect to the Supreme Being, one is established in brahmjyoti : merged with the "Supreme" (Brahma-jyoti).

 

The aim of bhakti is to reach beyond the brahma-jyoti, to serve the Divine Names/Form/Qualities/Pastimes of the Lord which are actually hidden by His bodily effulgence (light) : brahma-jyoti.

 

I don't want any debate on it, but wanted to put forth my understanding of why "becoming one with the Supreme" may not be the best option.

 

Also, it is written in the shastras that the (sincere) worshippers of devi-devatas will attain the abodes of those devi-devatas and attain moksha along with the devi or devata whenever they return to vaikunth.

In other words, they have to wait a longer period of time in this material universe (although in a much higher abode than the earth) and any mistake can land them back into the mortal plane or even lower. As long as a jeeva is within the 14 lokas, he can fall down.

 

However, the position of one who has attained vaikunth is infallible.

 

So it is wise to give up prejudice and to accept the path that leads to the highest perfection.

 

Rest is up to individual fortunes!

[suvarchas]

 

Well I don't agree with the last part of that.

 

It is quite true that that but for Adi Sankara Hinduism would have been reduced to nothing.Dvaitha and Vishishtadvaitha though were established after Shankara but still the majority are Advathis.That itself proves that for the intelligentia,Advaitha is acceptable.Iam not decrying for a moment the other schools,but they are all stages to attain the Advaitic stage.This is my opinion.

If we really see Tamil Alwars,they were devotees of Vishnu and not Vishistadvaitis or Dvaitis.In some of their songs they see the oneness of God like in the song of Peyazzhwar when he sang about Balaji.

Let the schools of philosophy be used for discussions and not for abuse the other

[chandu_69]

 

It is quite true that that but for Adi Sankara Hinduism would have been reduced to nothing.

 

But the ungrateful neohindus don't see it that way.

[Unlimited]

Hello Gourshyam Ji

 

I do not want to start a debate, but I have to tell some points which I have noticed in your writings.

 

You have said that when we merge with God there cannot be any worship or devotional service.

 

A Human Being is capable of serving himself. Isn't he? When he eats food he is serving himself, when he meditates he is serving himself, when he baths he is serving himself. So Self Service is totally possible hence I feel that the above statement of yours is not valid.

 

You have talked about 14 Lokas, God abodes etc. But have you seen any of the Lokas yourself? Hence, unless you see the Lokas themselves you cannot prove the existence of the Lokas. The 14 lokas according to vedas represent the positions in a human body.

 

Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita

"There was no time when you and I were not present, nor there will be any time in future."

 

Here Krishna says that He and I are always present. Jivas are nothing but pure samskaras and gunas which are not permanent.

 

Krishna clearly explains that one is Soul, which is neither mind nor ego nor body or anything else. He says that soul or self is stable, it cannot be touched by fire, it cannot be touched by water etc. Here Krishna explain about the self being different from Jiva.

 

Nayanam Chindanti Shastrani.....

 

You are very confident of that your path being the only one, the best or the complete path. But Krishna explains that all paths reach him, and gives an explaination that "As rivers flow into ocean, all souls reach me". So isn't it union with God?

 

Krishna himself says that Moksha can be attained by Raja Yoga , Jnana yoga, Karma Yoga, and Bhakti "Yoga".

 

My friend, it is "Bhakti Yoga". Or the Union in God through Bhakti.

 

It is good to have strong faith, but please never ridicule others faith.

[Ram Raksha Balaji]

 

The page number [in the book] is given in my Post itself.

 

Another blatant Vaishnava lie!

 

You want to know what did Swami Vivekananda really say about Shankara Bhagavadpada?

 

“But India has to live, and the spirit of the Lord descended again. He who declared, “I will come whenever virtue subsides”, came up again; and this time the manifestation was in the South, and up rose that young Brahmin boy of whom it has been declared that at the age of sixteen he had completed all his writings; the marvelous boy Shankaracharya arose. The writings of this boy of sixteen are the wonders of the modern world, and so was the boy. He wanted to bring back the Indian world to its pristine purity, but think of the amount of the task before him. I have told you a few points about the state of things that existed in India. All these horrors that you are trying to reform are the outcome of that reign of degradation…. That was the inheritance which that boy got from the Buddhists, and from that time to this, the whole work in India is a reconquest of this Buddhist degradation by the Vedanta. It is still going on, it is not yet finished. Shankara came, a great philosopher, and showed that the real essence of Buddhism and that of the Vedanta are not very different, but that the disciples did not understand the Master and have degraded themselves, denied the existence of the Soul and of God, and have become atheists. That was what Shankara showed, and all the Buddhists began to come back to the old religion.

When atheists and agnostics have destroyed the nation again, it was found out that Advaita was the only way to save India from materialism…. Again materialism came to the fore, taking the form of license with the higher classes and superstition with the lower. Then Shankaracharya arose and once more revivified the Vedanta philosophy. He made it a rationalist philosophy. In the Upanishads the arguments are often very obscure. By Buddha, the moral side of the philosophy was laid stress upon, and by Shankaracharya, the intellectual side. He worked out, rationalized, placed before me the wonderful coherent system of Advaita.

Shankaracharya had caught the rhythm of the Vedas, the national cadence. Indeed I always imagine that he had some vision such as mine when he was young, and recovered the ancient music that way. Anyway, his whole life’s work is nothing but that, the throbbing of the beauty of the Vedas and the Upanishads.

And the great glory of Bhagavan Bhashyakara Shankaracharya is that it was his genius that gave the most wonderful expression to the ideas of Veda Vyasa.

The greatest teacher of the Vedanta philosophy was Shankaracharya. By solid reasoning he extracted from the Vedas the truths of Vedanta, and on them built up the wonderful system of Jnana that is taught in his commentaries. He unified all the conflicting descriptions of Brahman and showed that there is only one Infinite Reality. He showed too that as man can only travel slowly on the upward road, all the varied presentations are needed to suit his varying capacity.

Next in the authority is the celebrated Gita. The great glory of Shankaracharya was his preaching on the Gita. It is one of the greatest works that this great man did among the many noble works of his noble life- the preaching of the Gita and writing the most beautiful commentary upon it.

Books cannot teach God, but they can destroy ignorance; their action is negative. To hold to the books and at the same time open the way to freedom is Shankara’s great achievement.”

 

The above words are from the book "Sri Shankaracharya- Life and Philosophy:- An elucidative and Reconciliatory Interpretation" written by Swami Mukhyananda, the peethadhipathi of the Belur Ramakrishna Math, Howrah, West Bengal. This is given in pages 142 and 143 (Appendix C). If you don't trust me, visit the Ramakrishna Math near your house and refer this book. It costs Rs.50.

He would have known more about Swami Vivekananda than you. You think we are all UKG students, to believe whatever you blabber? If you say Shankara was a fanatic, you will get worms in your tongue!

He was fanatic to the Buddhists? Know this, Gaudapada, the Paramaguru of Shankara (that is Shankara was the disciple of Govindapada who inturn was the disciple of Gaudapada) had deep respect for the Buddha and the Buddhists.

 

Gaudapada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...

Go through this page.

As I already said, there is no point fighting over our acharyas and peethadhipathis. We have to be united to protect our religion and nation from the impending Christian/Muslim danger. Please let us leave our differences aside and get united!

Let me say I am a Shaiva ans support Adi Shankara also. At the same time, I find more peace and happiness in Venkateswara temple. I am no more concerned about sampradayas, sects or anything else. I think it is better to go to Ilayazhwar sabai (math of Sri Ramanujacharya) rather than going to Pentecostal sabai or Aposthala aikkiya sabai (Christian churches that convert people cruelly).

Hope you will understand!

Sanatana Dharma ki Jai!!

[Ram Raksha Balaji]

 

“And such was the heart of Shankara that he burned to death lots of Buddhist monks by defeating them in arguments (quarrel?). What can you call such an action on Shankara’s part except fanaticism?”

 

[Vivekananda: Complete Works vol. VII, p. 117 ff.]

 

 

Foolish Hindus,

You are fighting within yourselves! There is a hidden Christian here! This fellow, R.Sajan seems to be a prominent Hindu hater. He has given this blasphemy that Shankara "killed" Buddhists and Jains, in so many websites and forums. I myself traced and found the nature of this anti-Hindu. Please, please be careful! He may even be an evangelist.

I personally apologize to all Vaishnavas here, please be united!!

[smaranam]

I too feel pain on hearing such words about Adi Shankara, his philosophy or

followers. It is one school that is inclusive of all disciplines. It has no rivalry.

It has its place, in history and now. Its for the people whom it is for.

 

This is what i wrote elsewhere :

 

Advaita, Vishishtadvaita, Shuddhadvaita, Achintya bhed-abheda, Dvaita can all exist parallely.

What school will you send your child to ? Montessori or Traditional ? Public or Private ? Hindi or English medium ? Classical or IB certified ?

Assuming they went to the 'right' school that suited them, they will all graduate with love, compassion, mercy, seeing the Divine in everyone around.

 

 

And this is just one of the numerous beautiful stotras Adi Shankaracharya has composed : Achyutashtakam

 

On YouTube :

 

Achyutam Keshavam Rama Narayanam
Krishna Damodaram Vasudevam Hari


Shri Dharam Madhavam
Gopika Vallabham
Janaki Nayakam Ramachandram Bhaje



Achyutam Keshavam Satyabha Madhavam
Madhavam Shri Dharam
Radhika Radhitam


Indira Mandiram Chetasa Sundaram
Devakinandanam Nandajam Sandadhe 



Vishnave Jishnave Sankhine Chakrine
Rukmini raagine Janaki janaye


Vallavi vallabha yarchita yatmane
Kamsavi dhvansine Vansine Te Namah 



Krishna Govinda He Rama Narayana
Shripate Vasudev aachyuta Shrinidhe


Achyutananda He Madhavaa dhokshajam
Dvarakanayaka Draupadi rakshaka


Rakshasa sobhitah Siitaya Sobhito
Dandakaa ranyabhu Punyata Kaaranah


Lakshmane naanvito Vaanarai Sevito
Agastya Sam pujito radhava Paatu Maam



Dhenuka ristaka nista kri ddveshiha
Keshiha Kansahru dvansikavadakah


Putanakopakah Surajakhelano
Balagopalaka Paatu Maam Sarvada

Vidyudu dyotavat Prasphurad vaasasam
Pravidam bhodavat Prollasad vigraham


Vanyayaa Malaya Sobhito rahsthalam
Lohitan ghridvayam Varijaksham Bhaje



Kunchitaih Kuntalairbh raajamaanaananam
Ratnamau lim Lasat kundalam Gandayoh


Harakey urakam Kankanaaprojjvalam
Kinkini manjulam


Shyamalam Tam Bhaje



Achyuta syastakam Yah Pathedistadam
Prematah

Pratyaham
Purusah Saspruham
Vrittatah

Sundaram Kartrivisvambharas
Tasya Vasyo Harirjayate Satvaram


 

Translation :

Achyutashtakam | Acyutastakam | Achyutam Keshavam by Adi Sankara

 

Acyutāṣṭakam

I adore Rāmacandra, Who is infallible, Who is Keśava, Rāma, Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Dāmodara, Vāsudeva, Hari, Śrīdhara, Mādhava, Who is dear to Gopikā, and Who is the consort of Jānakī.[1]

 

I offer a salute with my hands together to Keśava, Who is infallible, Who is the consort of Satyabhāmā (as Kṛṣṇa), Mādhava, Śrīdhara, Who is longed-for by Rādhikā, Who is the temple of Lakṣmī (Indirā), Who is beautiful by thought, Who is dear to Devakī, and Who is dear to all.[2]

 

Salutations for Viṣṇu, Who conquers everyone, Who holds a conch-shell and a discus, Who is dear to Rukmiṇī (Kṛṣṇa), Who is the consort of Jānakī (Rāma), Who is dear to cowherdesses, Who is offered [in sacrifices], Who is the Ātman (soul), Who destroyed Kaṁsa, and Who plays the flute.[3]

 

O Kṛṣṇa! O Govinda! O Rāma! O Nārāyaṇa, Who is the consort of Lakṣmī! O Vāsudeva, Who attained the treasure of Lakṣmī! O Acyuta, Who is immeasurable! O Mādhava, O Adhokṣaja, Who is the leader of Dvārikā, and Who is the protector of Draupadī!1[4]

 

May Rāghava — Who upsetted the demons, Who adorned Sītā, Who is Danḍaka-forest purification cause, Who is accompanied by Lakṣmaṇa, Who was served by monkeys, and Who is revered by Sage Agastya — protect me.[5]

 

May Baby Gopāla (Kṛṣṇa) — Who was unfavorable to Dhenukāsura and Ariṣṭāsura, Who destroyed Keśī, Who killed Kaṁsa, Who plays the flute, and Who got angry on Pūtanā2 — always protect me.[6]

 

I sing praise of Acyuta, Who is adorned by a lightening like shining yellow robe, Whose body is resplendent like a cloud of the rainy-season, Who is adorned by a wild-flower garland at His chest, Whose twin-feet are of copper-red color, and Who has lotus-like eyes.[7]

 

I sing praise of that Śyāma, Whose face is adorned by falling locks of curly tresses, Who has jewels at forehead, Who has shining ear-rings on the cheeks, Who is adorned with a Keyūra (flower) garland, Who has a resplendent bracelet, and Who has a melodious anklet.[8]

[aum_namasivaya]

India has a glorious parampara of Siddhas who chose to remain anonymous and never cared for their name, caste or creed. As for example, there were 64 Tamil siddhas and great figures like Akka and Basava in Karnataka. In Kerala too there were saints like Viralmindan, Ezhuthachan, Narayana Guru etc etc few are known through some works and the great majority is anonymous and the tradition extends to a hoary past where we find at Harappa (2500 or 3000 BC) the seal of an Urdhvaretas, Pasupati. Innumerable Yogis and Yoginis walked on this land and the Pithas speak of the grace with which they guard the Sakta tradition. Against such a long history of Indian spiritual wisdom, some lobby is at work to project Sankara_Advaitam by the pseudo Buddha as the crown of India’s spiritual wisdom. Sankara_Advaitam discussed in modern times, Sa must be read as in Sat and not as in Sabari, it is hybrid advaitam created by the priestly class by combining the nirgunabrahmam with Ramanuja’s sagunabrahmam to lay claim for his Advaitam as all encompassing. Sankara may be a great philosopher, scholar, thinker and all that people are speaking about him. But he has no standing above the great Siddhas who have glorified Siva and Sakti since pre-historic times. His philosophy is humbug and not amenable to realization. Neo advaitis have hijacked sagunopasana as a pretext to make Vivartavadam acceptable and to place Sankara above Ramanuja, Madhava etc and also above the innumerable siddhas of the land.

 

[vedarka]

Lord Vishnu came as Buddha to protect the world keeping the Brahmashtra like Supreme Religion -vedic/Hinduism from the people with "Aasuri gunas" who were using/following Hinduism against the principles of Hinduism.

But once Buddhism transformed into a religion which opposes the basic ideologies of Buddha himself the God ordered Kumarila Bhattu to agitate against Buddhism.Then by the ordered of the Lord Rudra came on to earth as Sadguru AdiShankaraacharya to fight against the menace of Buddhism and Jainism and disintegration among Hindus.He then , to fight against the Buddhists/Jains who do not agree the very existence of Parabrahman/Brahman philosophy formulated Pratchanna Buddhism -the Mayavaada Monoism based on Vedas only.But for time being he did leave some portions of the Vedas to achieve the purpose of his Incarnation.Then ,when His purpose is fufilled The Lord came on to earth as Ramanujacharya to also include the left out portions of the complete Vedic philosophy.Hence His teachings/tradition is referred to as "ParamaVaidikaMatam":Complete-Vedic-Religion.

[kbdas]

It has become the habit of a few people in this forum to abuse Adi Shankara.

 

Sri Shankara's philosophy drove Buddhism out of India. Although I cannot agree with his philosophy, I can only respect his knowlege and renunciation. Lines from his works are quoted by everyone, even Vaishnava Archaryas ( Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja, for one ). Plus he is avatar of Lord Shiva, be careful!!

[Bhagwan]

Please dont think that any path,Vaishnava or Shaivate,is higher or lower,inferior or superior.God is One,in many forms true,but always One.This has to be the basic understanding of Advaita Vedanta,which literally means,`Non-duality`or ` not two`,and is the basic understanding of all enlightened people,whether they are Vaishava,Shaivate,Buddist,Jain or Shakti or Muslim or Christian ,or even atheist,this Oneness is the natural enlightened or self-realised state.It is just scientific,that when the conciousness of the person reaches a certain hight,the ego dissapears and the One appears,just like boiling water turns into steam at 100 degrees.Then the path has to be just like the cup,a container.All unique,beautifull paths with there own traditions and truths,but the basic core experience has to be the same,Oneness! It is not something that can be bypassed.Whether the seeker is a meditator or a devotee of one of the divine forms of God,the self is always revealed as Oneness,without ego.Yes ,you can still be a devotee to Krishna or Shiva and have a personal relationship with that God,but you cant avoid that enlightenment or self-realisation.Shankara`s experience of the self is the same as Chaitanyas.Please dont think that Adi Shankara,was sent to earth to get people to believe in something because they didnt want to worship Vishnu! Advaita is just his actual experience,it has nothing to do wioth philosophy.There is only the One god posing in different forms anyway.This is the beauty of God`s wonderfull Leela.Isnt it funny that people might be arguing about it?

Om and Love

[ravivcg]

Hi frns, i c a lot of confusion among many ppl here. Many r under the opinion tht one can follow any philosophy - advaita, vishistadvaita, dvaita or any other and reach d same destination. I.e., all philosophies r teachin the same...

 

Are Fire & Water one and the same?? No, we know. Never.

All these philosophies r teaching their own way to reach the goal (& perhaps, their own goal!) and they contrast each other in, well, in almost all thoughts (Eg: advaita & dvaita). There cannot be paths in two contrasting directions that lead to same destination.

And moreover, if we r to say they teach d same, it means that we r telling that those philosophers who thot them, themselves dint kno tht they r preachin d same and we r more intellect than those ppl!!

Hence, we shud agree they r radically different thoughts n goals, not mere different approaches.

 

Next, many f my frns r overconcerned abt avatars of acharyas. Thts a good R & D work we can have to give tribute to our acharyas.

But, fortunately or unfortunately, we do not have any solid proof to say tht many of our acharyas are avatars of some devatas. Not even Sankara, or Ramanuja nor Chaitanya or any of those saints.

[solid exception to this is "MADHWA" - He has been quoted as avatar of Vayu in many puranas n some upanishats wit timestamp too. Y just puranas, the Rig Veda itself praises him a lot wit his other two prequels - Hanuma & Bhima. So, atleast we've 1 great saint from Karnataka who got the Avatar fame!]

Ok.

Coming to Buddha. Buddha is the 9th incarnation of Vishnu (no doubt!) and with this avatar His aim was to fool daityas (daemons) and give pure knowledge only to devatas. "Daitya vimohaka nitya sukhade, Deva subodhaka buddha swaroop"

So, whatever Vishnu thought was yatartha-jnana (true-wisdom) in its internal meaning, but ppl who just understood the apparent meaning got misleaded.

[Bhagwan]

In this Kali Yuga,there are many paths which appear completely contradictory,people who are arguing and fighting in the name of god and religion,and many people who think that there lineage or guru or path is the superior or the highest one.But really this is just characteristic of ignorance and Kali Yuga,I dont mean to suggest that it is not good to have a diversity of different philosophies ,methods or approaches,or that it is not good to have good philosopical discussion amongst ourselves.But scientifically,all apparently diiferent paths have to converge at some point in self-realisation or awakening out of the dream of ego and seperation from the universal self,it is just a question of conciousness,which always reveals the One when it reaches boiling point,and the ego-mind stops and reveals the One.I am not saying that self-realsation is the ultimate state,and Paramatman realisation is not a higher understanding or dissolution,but it doesnt matter which path the spiritual seeker is following,at some point,the awakening from ego-sleep to the ecstasy of reunion with the self,or the One,has to happen.And it is not something seperate,it is always there,the Self.It is only our ego dreams and mins games that keep it hidden.And devotees of Krishna,even if they dont like the advaita vedanta philosophy,will also see this One revealed as they become mature.Perhaps they will see Krishna in everything and everyone.Love,Bhagwan

[Sundeepan]

 

It has become the habit of a few people in this forum to abuse Adi Shankara.

1. Please remember it was Adi Shankara, who re instated Hinduism in India. Otherwise India would have been a country of Buddhists and Jains ( or may be muslims and Christianns)

2. Even one of your Great Vaishnavas Rajaji has observed that " Adi Shankara, drank the ocean of Knowledge as easily as one sips water from ones own hand".

3. So before making any abusive comments on Shankara, think what you will be in his absence.

4. None of the Advaitins, or Smarthas, or Shaivites are making abusive comments about "YOUR" Raghavendra, or Ramanuja or PrabhuPadha

5. So its only civility and commonsence to abstain from offending Shankara.

Hope I am making myself clear.

 

You know, one of the reasons that "outsiders" can come into India and influence our people so easily is because there is such a divide amongst everyone. I agree with you, no one should foul mouth Adi Shankara or any other figures from antiquity or modern times. Because the ones who do foul mouth these people don't even have an drop of wisdom that these people had or acquired. It is indeed a shame, the ones who cant do are the ones who are the critics.

[Bhagwan]

In this Kali Yuga,there is always argument and qaurell between different religions,and philosophies,who think that their way is the best or purest path to God,people even kill in the name of god and think that they are much more superior than any others spiritual paths.But in reality,the Oneness of the Self cannot be missed,and the Self is always there,behind the mind,as soon as the false ego dissapears,and the ego-mind is still,then the One appears,this is simply the scientific way,that all spiritual paths lead too.As consciousness reaches boiling point,the natural self realisation occurs,as the dream of ego dissapears.This cannot be avoided,even the devotees of Krishna who may not like the Advaita Vedanta philosphy,and prefer to stay with a dualistic approach,will still experience this One,when they are mature,they will see Krishna in everything and everyone,when there ego dissapears.I am not saying that Self realisation is the ultimate realisation,but this understanding will have to happen for the ego to dissapear,and Oneness to appear.This is only natural and is the common experience of all mystics,at some point.Deeper realisations may then occur,such as Paramatman realisation or Nirvana Kaya,but ego must dissapear as the first Self realisation occurs.

Love,Bhagwan

[Sadhuman]

It is true that the Gaudiya Vaishnava`s and some other religions prefer a dualistic approach,and dislike the Advaita Vedanta philoshophy which begins with Oneness,but even the devotional paths end up with the One at the point of Self-Realisation,which is experienced by all spiritual seekers at the point where their consciousness reaches boiling point and the false ego dissapears,and the Self,which is the true Self,is then revealed.This is experienced by all enlightened people no matter which philosophy or path they choose to follow,and is actually the same experience of Chaitanya and Shankara,only their individual means of expression differ,so it is that whenever a new person becomes enlightened,the expression is always unique,as unique as that persons soul,and bodymind.But the One is always experienced when the ego-mind is trancended,for devotees of Krishna they may see Krishna in everyone and everything,as did says Chaitanya,"when you see Krishna in everyone`s eyes you are free".This experience will happen to the mature devotees of Krishna and other forms of God and has happened to many devotees,Ramakrishna,and devotees of Shiva alike.It is the same self-realisation that happens to those who are not devotional in nature but find liberation through Jnana or purely meditation practices.I dont mean to say that Self-realisation is the ultimate realisation,there are also the Paramatman realisation which transcends the Self,and the ultimate Nirvana Kaya or seventh body,but the evaporationof ego,and Self realisation has to be the common experience of all mature spiritual seekers,when they are ripe for it.

[sri jaya theertha]

 

It has become the habit of a few people in this forum to abuse Adi Shankara.

 

Sri Shankara's philosophy drove Buddhism out of India. Although I cannot agree with his philosophy, I can only respect his knowlege and renunciation. Lines from his works are quoted by everyone, even Vaishnava Archaryas ( Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja, for one ). Plus he is avatar of Lord Shiva, be careful!!

Hi friends

It is to make clear about our hindusm ( prachina vaidika sampradaya) there many people came and called them self as acharyas ,in fact every one came as acharya did the same mistake, misinterpreting holly vedas , starting from sankaracharya... after that only in 12th century, jagad guru srimad anada theertha bagavad paadacharya( sri MADHWACHARYA) came to provide real kowledge about the holly scriptures ,i am not telling just like that he is the incornation of mukhya praan vaayu its mentioned in veda its self that in rig veda pavamana mandala as vaayu deva and is the guru for whole universe(thrilokyacharya) and will lead all devagana and other jeevathmas to paramathama(lord vishnu)in their moksha,there jeevathmas will feel the eternal bliss ( swroopananda) ,because it is mentioned his name also there that is "madhwa"

The key point to be noted and remembered is that Acharya Madhva did not discover or invent anything new. All the major concepts enunciated by him were part of the timeless, eternal vedic religion (sanAtana dharma). He brought back these forgotten concepts into the conciousness of humanity, providing appropriate references. The school of philosophy associated with him has different names. Its ancient name is tattvavAda, but it is more popularly known as Dvaita (the dualistic school).

There is a very popular verse, attributed to Sri VyAsa tIrtha, which captures some of the highlights of the Acharya Madhva’s philosophy:

shrIman Madhva Mate harih paratarah

Satyam Jagat

Tattvato bhedah

jeeva ganaah hareh anucharAh,

nichochha bhavam gatAh

Muktih Naija sukhAnubhUti

amalA bhaktishcha tat saadhanam

Haixyaadi tritayam pramaanam

akhilam Amnaayaika vedyo harih

A loose translation of the above would be:

ViShNu is the supreme God,

The world is real,

The five-fold difference between God, living and non-living beings is an eternal fact,

All living beings are dependent upon Hari for their existence

There is a hierarchy amongst living beings, that is eternal (without beginning or end)

Salvation lies in the soul experiencing its intrinsic joy,

Salvation can be attained only through pure and unsullied devotion of God means of knowledge are sensory perception, inference and holy scriptures

Hari is to be perceived in His nature through the holy scriptures and only through them.

In addition to the above points, Acharya made several important contributions to Indian Philosophy. Some of these are:

Bimba-pratibimba: God is the object (bimba) and jIvas are His images (pratibimbas)·

[Sadhuman]

This is beautifull if you are a devotee of Vishnu,and of course you will relish acharyas like Madhacharya and enjoy reading from all the guru`s in that Sampradaya.But Adi Shankara also spoke the truth,as a self-realised guru of Shiva`s Sampradaya.All gods are ultimately one,like a diamond with many facets,facet of the diamond will show a diferent colour,but the whole facet is around it and behind it,as Mother Meera explains.God is the One and the many at the same time,or the One behind the many.Both traditions are sacred and will appeal to different people,but even people from other religions,who are not Hindu`s,Vaishnava`s,Shaivites or Shakti worshippers but will still discover the ultimate god which is beyond or trancendental to all religions and scriptures.This means that we are all equal,even non-believers and no-one can be ultimately superior.Still nice to discuss different approaches?

[Bhagwan]

Beloved friends,

With all due respect to Madhva,and his interpretation`s of the veda`s and Lord Chaitanya`s sophisticated teaching and Lord Vishnu himself,Adi Shankara also speaks the truth with his philosophy of Advaita Vedanta.I am not saying that one is better,but it is clear from Shankara`s beautifull philosophy which is based on his own enlightenment,and the many self-realised and enlightened teachers,not just pundits or philosophers but truly enlightened beings from the same Advaita stlye such as the great Nisargadatta Maharaj,Ramesh Balsekar and Ranjit Maharaj,as well as the great Sri Ramana Maharshi,who were all great teachers of the truth.