Ram

[Guest guest]

this is all derived from Vedas if people identify this as Hinduism what is wrong with that?

--everyone's free to identify with anything, but we are in aphilosophic forum and it is licit to judge if things are correct, spiritually legitimate or not

 

People use this for various reasons, for convenience, even those, who say they have got nothing to do with Hindu, they use it.

--yes , this is the answer.. casualty, convenience, various unidentified reasons.. so, if you are honest, stop to propose it as a religious, dharmic thing

 

the fact that we are reading the Gita people will say we are following Krishna.

--following means to understand the same siddhanta and to learn the same doctrine and behaviour

 

Your concern is baseless, not even a child will think like that.

--the comparison is with this indiscriminate (and childish?) union of opposite religions

 

So Devi Devtas are not important, Going to pilgrimage is not important, going to kumbh mela is not important?

--very important, but we are in the same religion if we give to these things similar meaning .. not opposite

 

We all know what invaders do.

But still there is no sense in what you are saying.

--the sense is that hinduism and hindu nationalism is a concept created by the invaders

 

No sir Hinduism was not created by Muslim,

--in a sense yes, because they had to conquer and the did not care to discriminate... "beyond this river.. (sh)india"

 

Adharma is adarhma in any shape, to fight against it, is Dharma, no if and buts

--so do not create a fake religion, it is adharma, religion are created by avataras

 

I do not feel lonely. We have been conditioned to accept history written by west for far too long

--hindu accept that the word hindu is muslim and that there's no word hindu in vedas.. it is not a debated subject

 

Technically bharatvarsa came later

--later than india?

 

I will not argue about it, like you are, for me the new names do not change the contents.

--yes, the discussion about name is marginal... you gave objections and i gave mine

 

When did muslim become your enemy?

--there's ... personally i do not judge as groups, i judge personally

 

I am not as foolish as you think.

--i do not even imagine that you are foolish, otherwise i would not speak with you... but you were saying that thames and ganga is the same river.....

 

Who is arguing, but you follow the Dharma.

--dharma is interpreted by many indian religions in different and opposite ways, so you cannot reunite them under the same dharma, hindu dharma or whatever

 

Truth is to be realized.

--so different realizations, different religions

 

I might see the bottle half empty you might see as half full.

--mine is not pessimosm for the success of hindu nationalism, it is concern if it is successiful.. because it is adharmic(in my opinion as i have explained)

 

Follow your Dharma no one is asking you to change your faith.

--the discussion was on "hinduism" and i have discussed.. yours is another subject

 

 

 

 

[maadhav]

<< talk first to the aggressor invaders, not the victims of the invaders.

- invaders is people dead from hundreds of years, now in india someone takes birth as muslim, someone as "hindu", someone as christian and so on.. who's invading? >>

 

at birth all are animals.

the ideology is invaded and the decendents of the aggressoors are ripping the benefits

and trying to kill sanatana dharma in is own land.

 

 

<< -the barbaric ideology is terrorism and religious fanaticism, not islam or vedas...>>

 

read koran. it is a book/manual of terrorism.

no vedic person has done any jihad.

the history shows that the muslims have done it all the time. so, it should be clear that slam produces terrorits.

look at the thousnds of madresas in pakistan.

they are factories for producing terrorists.

there is nothing like this in the vedic culture.

 

<< who behaves as a terrorist is a problem, >>

 

and you cannot realize which religion produces terrorists all the times.

 

<< we do not care wich god he uses as a pretext or justification >>

 

why did you not are when talibans did so much terror?

 

 

"have a nice day.

subdue a muslim,"

-subdue? is this your mentality? >>

 

yes, subdue a terrorist.

convince him that it is worth giving up islam.

concince it to the muslims of india too.

 

pick a user name, do not come in mask of "guest" like a terrorist.

 

 

[Guest guest]

the ideology is invaded and the decendents of the aggressoors are ripping the benefits

and trying to kill sanatana dharma in is own land

__everyone? simply police has to put in jail who is going against the law... otherwise it is terrorism

 

read koran. it is a book/manual of terrorism.

__not true, if one is a little expert he can find phrases in vedas, upanishads, itihasas and acharya's speechs that, out of context, can be understood as extremely violent and unjust. So better to judge any scripture with little competence and not to find what we are looking for to satisfy our political ideas. You many times perverted bhagavad gita to use it as a justification to make war and to create adharmic ksatryas (that is a contraddiction) from sudras and against spiritual authorities for your nationalism. I judge it more spiritually dangerous than jihad

 

it should be clear that slam produces terrorits.

__no, terrorist are an extremely little minorance in muslim countries, and muslims are the most victims of the so called islamic terrorism

 

and you cannot realize which religion produces terrorists all the times.

__if it is like that why to imitate? adharma generates adharma, not dharma, spirituality, justice, peace

 

why did you not are when talibans did so much terror?

__so do not preach as a taliban

 

yes, subdue a terrorist.

__i am attempting to "subdue" what i judge a hindu national/terrorist mentality

 

pick a user name, do not come in mask of "guest" like a terrorist.

__terrorist is who behaves and speak as terrorist, even your name is "guest", to name "madhaav" is anonym as "guest"

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

( --everyone's free to identify with anything, but we are in aphilosophic forum and it is licit to judge if things are correct, spiritually legitimate or not )

 

Let us not be judge and jury, if some thing is fine within these various practice I accept, i reject the one that is not suitable for me.

 

Re

( --yes , this is the answer.. casualty, convenience, various unidentified reasons.. so, if you are honest, stop to propose it as a religious, dharmic thing)

 

I have not said the Hindu is a religion, it is a way of life practiced by inhabitants of India people living on other side of the river, they have come to be known as Hindus, how it came about I do not know. They practice various paths prescribed in Vedas This is an identification for them, it is not a religion

 

Re

( ) the fact that we are reading the Gita people will say we are following Krishna.

--following means to understand the same siddhanta and to learn the same doctrine and behaviour)

 

My point was how people will see us and not weather we understood the same principle we may be in same school and same class it is not necessary we understand the same.

 

Re

( --the comparison is with this indiscriminate (and childish?) union of opposite religions)

 

No union, Dharma is the same but different concepts arrived from same study

 

Re

( --very important, but we are in the same religion if we give to these things similar meaning .. not opposite)

 

They are important for various desires of an individual soul, who may worship the same deity for different reasons.

 

Re

( --the sense is that hinduism and hindu nationalism is a concept created by the invaders)

 

Concept already existed.

They might have given a new name, which is debatable also.

if some one want to right the wrong done by them, good luck to them, problem is a huge one. Who knows what the lord wants?

 

Re

( --in a sense yes, because they had to conquer and the did not care to discriminate... "beyond this river.. (sh)india")

 

Nothing has changed the people living beyond this river practice still the same. They might have given a new name who knows.

 

Re

( --so do not create a fake religion, it is adharma, religion are created by avataras)

 

Who is creating a new religion, we practice still the same Dharma left by our ancestors.

 

Re

( --hindu accept that the word hindu is muslim and that there's no word hindu in vedas.. it is not a debated subject)

 

Granted there is no such word as Hindu in vedas, neither is English, but we use it to communicate.

 

Re

( --later than india?)

 

Of course much before, still Bharatvarsa is not original. The point is the name changes, the contents do not.

 

Re

( --yes, the discussion about name is marginal... you gave objections and i gave mine)

 

So let it be let us worship in peace.

 

Re

( ) When did muslim become your enemy?

--there's ... personally i do not judge as groups, i judge personally

 

I fail to understand what you are saying.

I personally had many good Muslim friends, but as a group they behave differently this is my personal experience.

 

Re

( ... but you were saying that thames and ganga is the same river.....)

 

I never said Ganga and thames was the same river, but the water is common ingredient h2o

 

Re

( --dharma is interpreted by many indian religions in different and opposite ways, so you cannot reunite them under the same dharma, hindu dharma or whatever)

 

But ofcource, concept are different I have not denied that any where. but even within the apparent differences there remain a common purpose to know the truth, gods are the same, same concept of karma and reincarnation. Tree is the same different branches.

 

Re

( --so different realizations, different religions)

 

Yes, can anyone define absolute, eternal, unending nature of the supreme?

 

Re

( --mine is not pessimosm for the success of hindu nationalism, it is concern if it is successiful.. because it is adharmic(in my opinion as i have explained)

 

I do not know what pessimosm is.

Every citizen is proud of his or her nation success that should not be a concern,

but if it is adharmic than it is my concern also.

 

Re

( --the discussion was on "hinduism" and i have discussed.. yours is another subject)

 

I am discussing the same thing you keep ignoring my point.

Hindu is not a religion

Call it a train station on other side of the river, we are all commuters going on a journey, there is a Vedic map in there full of information of different destination.

Now this station was once known as deva bhumi, in due course of time it was also known as aryavraat (I think) is also known as Bharatvarsa and now it is also known as Hindu or India.

If we get bogged down in what to call this station or why there are so many destinations, we might miss the train.

 

We pay the fares in common currency called Karma.

The journey takes through forest, swamps and mountains. Kama, krodh and lobh are the sub station to avoid.

Maya is the most attractive station of them all; it offers us most beautiful thing to enjoy.

We mis to read the small print, enjoy now pay later.

 

 

 

In this age of kali, there is an express train that leaves every second, called HARI NAAM EXPRESS. We still have to negotiate those impediments mentioned above. And finally we have to discard the heavy burden we carry the false ego, to reach the blissful destination.

 

There are other stations on West Side of the river from where the invaders came.

They offer one way ticket to hell or haven depending on weather you accept the savior or not.the train is called Christian express, but do not be fooled by the bribes they offer you to get on the train.

 

There is another train called Muslim express, this one spread its wings on the strength of the sword, they simply forced everyone on to the train. Destination is either hell or haven in the company of virgin.

 

 

There is another one called atheist express, destination unknown, just enjoy who knows tomorrow, therefor all you are required to do is chewing the chewed.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

If you sing Govinda Nama Sankirtan, to them, your posthumously prove your point.

Its becuase of their close mindedness. Even learned well literate of them cannot be changed thats the prob.

 

But I dont see this point with Christians. I know a Swamiji, who was christian by birth ( Keralite Christian) who went in search for answers, who had studied his own religion very thouroughly, studied other religions, tried to get an answer on the existence of eternal heaven and hell and tried to find out how a limited cuase can have unlimited ( or eternal) heaven, and took Dhiksha from Swami Dayanand Saraswati of Arsha Vidhya Gurukulam, and when I met him before I came to the west was teaching vedanta to interested students.

 

 

[Guest guest]

if some thing is fine within these various practice I accept, i reject the one that is not suitable for me.

--so why discuss with me? you choose what you like without thinking and that's enough, licit and good

 

They practice various paths prescribed in Vedas This is an identification for them,

--many paths do not believe that other paths are really following vedas... so this is not a common understanding that make hinduism a unity, a group

 

we may be in same school and same class it is not necessary we understand the same.

--many paths do not believe that other so called hinduists are in the same school, one is the natural variety between practitioneers of the same school, one is the fact that inside the "so called" hinduism there's opposite school with nothing really in common

 

No union, Dharma is the same

--define this dharma, i am a pratictioneer in a so called hindu path, as you have said 'till now we have so different ideas on that dharma that it is not possible to say that both we belong to anything different from human race

 

They are important for various desires of an individual soul, who may worship the same deity for different reasons.

--so different reasons, different definitions, different groups, different names, religions and so on... if you do not care for differences even a muslim or an african animist is a hindu if anyone decides in this way

 

Concept already existed.

They might have given a new name,

--if you study a little the concept was very different and it is survived entirely only in some path, partially in others and nothing of original sanatana dharma is in other paths... and every path has his concept on this

 

Who knows what the lord wants?

--if we have not common ideas on what lord wants what's the use to call ourselves with the same religious, spiritual name, cathegory and so on? no common idea on the lord, no hinduism

 

Nothing has changed the people living beyond this river practice still the same

--not true, many practices and most of all many meanings (opposite also) for the same practices

 

Who is creating a new religion, we practice still the same Dharma left by our ancestors.

--i have already said it... the ancien dharma is not hinduism, some hinduist follow it integrally, some follow partially, some follow opposite things... very easy to veryfy, impossible to deny

 

still Bharatvarsa is not original

--yes.. new york is in kenya

 

So let it be let us worship in peace.

--this is essential, and to have peace you have not to mix indiscriminately

 

I never said Ganga and thames was the same river, but the water is common ingredient h2o

--so there's distinction, the fact that both are h2o is not useful for the example

 

but even within the apparent differences there remain a common purpose to know the truth,

--wich? if we see the same god and the same concepts with opposite meaning there's nothing really in common... only apparent things

 

Yes, can anyone define absolute, eternal, unending nature of the supreme?

--if you cannot define why the need to make groups and give common names? hinduists as a whole cannot know nature of supreme? ok, hinduism is a name with nothing inside

 

we are all commuters going on a journey, there is a Vedic map in there full of information of different destination.

--hinduists have not a common journey and not the same interpretation of the map

 

In this age of kali, there is an express train that leaves every second, called HARI NAAM EXPRESS

--i agree that this is not only the express train but the space shuttle, but 1)harinama samkirtana is all over the world and it belongs to all the world not only india 2)many hindus do not see it as the express, many hindus see it as going in the opposite direction 3)so you cannot reunite the "so called" hindus under harinama, and if you reunite them there's not need to call it and limit it as hinduism or indian, because it is all over the world, accepted widely

 

so let us not forcibly reunite and let us not limit harinama samkirtana calling it with the name of only one part of the world as it woul belong to only one people

 

this is my point

 

if this hinduism is pushed, everything becomes a local, national thing, not universal

[Guest guest]

Jai Ganesh

 

re

(--so why discuss with me? you choose what you like without thinking and that's enough, licit and good)

 

i am happy to call it day, you do not make sense to me.

 

Re

(--many paths do not believe that other paths are really following vedas... so this is not a common understanding that make hinduism a unity, a group)

 

that is your oppinion,we are happy in our respect of each others paths.

 

Re

(--many paths do not believe that other so called hinduists are in the same school, one is the natural variety between practitioneers of the same school, one is the fact that inside the "so called" hinduism there's opposite school with nothing really in common)

 

you are just harping on the differences,but you fail miserably to see the common ground.

 

Re

(--define this dharma, i am a pratictioneer in a so called hindu path, as you have said 'till now we have so different ideas on that dharma that it is not possible to say that both we belong to anything different from human race)

 

imposible to define Dharma,if it is so called do not do it,

rest of your post i can not make out what you are saying.

 

Re

(--so different reasons, different definitions, different groups, different names, religions and so on... if you do not care for differences even a muslim or an african animist is a hindu if anyone decides in this way)

 

You are quating me out of contex, i give you reason why there is differences,within the apperant same worship.

and yes i do not care for differences,we are all individual souls, if you beleive in karma and reincarnation, or even if you did not we are still the part of same creation.

 

 

Re

(--if you study a little the concept was very different and it is survived entirely only in some path, partially in others and nothing of original sanatana dharma is in other paths... and every path has his concept on this)

 

you are hell bent on seeing the differences, i say live and let live this is a Hindu way.

 

concepts are still concepts

 

Who knows what the lord wants?

(--if we have not common ideas on what lord wants what's the use to call ourselves with the same religious, spiritual name, cathegory and so on? no common idea on the lord, no hinduism)

 

these are your thoughts, i have no idea what you are on about.

i have no idea what the lord has in his plans.

 

Re

(--not true, many practices and most of all many meanings (opposite also) for the same practices)

 

i did not say any different, that is what went on in the past, which is what goes on now.

 

Re

(--i have already said it... the ancien dharma is not hinduism, some hinduist follow it integrally, some follow partially, some follow opposite things... very easy to veryfy, impossible to deny)

 

you say and i have to accept it yes?

 

i have not deny the differences.

 

Re

(still Bharatvarsa is not original

--yes.. new york is in kenya)

 

your statement has no logic.

 

 

Re

(So let it be let us worship in peace.

--this is essential, and to have peace you have not to mix indiscriminately)

 

you have fobia about mixing.

 

 

Re

(--so there's distinction, the fact that both are h2o is not useful for the example)

 

nothing is useful to you, you see every thing with black colour glasses.

 

Re

(--wich? if we see the same god and the same concepts with opposite meaning there's nothing really in common... only apparent things)

 

so you see god as father, i see as mother and someone else only see his efulgance every thing is common the creator is the common factor.

 

 

(--if you cannot define why the need to make groups and give common names? hinduists as a whole cannot know nature of supreme? ok, hinduism is a name with nothing inside)

 

there is no logic in your statements,sunya is a concept for Budhist,but hey who is arguing.

 

Re

(--hinduists have not a common journey and not the same interpretation of the map)

 

i never said it was, it is based on individual souls desires.

 

(--i agree that this is not only the express train but the space shuttle, but 1)harinama samkirtana is all over the world and it belongs to all the world not only india 2)many hindus do not see it as the express, many hindus see it as going in the opposite direction 3)so you cannot reunite the "so called" hindus under harinama, and if you reunite them there's not need to call it and limit it as hinduism or indian, because it is all over the world, accepted widely)

 

I never said it was cofined to India or any one but it is there in the holy land why do you want to deny that.Hari nama is for who ever wants it, if you cared to read i said hindu is not a religion but a way of life follow that, but people will still label you, i dont care.

 

Re

(so let us not forcibly reunite and let us not limit harinama samkirtana calling it with the name of only one part of the world as it woul belong to only one people

 

this is my point)

 

you are just prejudiced, this part of the world does not deny anyone Hainama , but the fact still remains the majority of the followers come from this part of the world.they preserved against all the odds the way of life,you are so keen to deny them.

 

Re

(if this hinduism is pushed, everything becomes a local, national thing, not universal)

 

I am not prepared to deny the glory to people of this land.

 

at the same time no one is barred from this train, it is journey if you like it you join it.

 

Jai Shree Krishna.

[Guest guest]

(--many paths do not believe that other paths are really following vedas... so this is not a common understanding that make hinduism a unity, a group)

that is your oppinion,we are happy in our respect of each others paths.

-it is a reality very easy to find also in this forum.... but there's no question of respect, respect is for everyone, the question is if it is right to put everything under the same label. I respect muslims, christians, atheists.. but i am not christian, muslim or atheist

 

you are just harping on the differences,but you fail miserably to see the common ground.

--but you are not convincing in explain this common ground, so i do not see because i am a miserable, you do not see otherwise you should be able to explain

 

i give you reason why there is differences,within the apperant same worship.

--yes, same surface, different core... is this a group? religion? dharma? way of life?

 

i do not care for differences,we are all individual souls, if you beleive in karma and reincarnation, or even if you did not we are still the part of same creation.

--if you do not care for difference, let us not make another artificial difference.. hindu-not hindu... especially if this difference is based on nothing

 

i say live and let live this is a Hindu way.

concepts are still concepts

--this is honest.. for you hindu means "live and let live"

 

i have no idea what the lord has in his plans.

--so without an idea on god on wich basis one say to belong to a religion? or to be religious?

 

you say and i have to accept it yes?

i have not deny the differences.

--so if we can find only differences or superficial, inessential things, what is the common ground of hinduism?

 

(still Bharatvarsa is not original

--yes.. new york is in kenya)

your statement has no logic.

--because it is common culture that india's (or better earth's name) was bharata-varsa (the land of king bharat) in origin... if you make a search in this forum you will see that many use this name with the same meaning i am saying

 

you have fobia about mixing.

--not phobia, simply i know the peoblems in mixing undiscriminately at religious, personal, political, national level... peace starts from the respect for differences

 

nothing is useful to you, you see every thing with black colour glasses.

--why are you saying what i say as pessimistic?

 

so you see god as father, i see as mother and someone else only see his efulgance every thing is common the creator is the common factor.

--the important thing is reality, not the way we see it... it is licit to have differences, but if i see something black, and if you see the same thing white, you cannot to put both us in the same "group who sees white"... or "group who sees black".. or to concoct a "group who sees red"

 

sunya is a concept for Budhist,

--no, there's many so called hindu schools that believe that sunya is the ultimate reality and god as father, as mother, as effulgence is a maya for ignorant people

 

I never said it was cofined to India or any one but it is there in the holy land why do you want to deny that

--if i said all over the world, i mean also in india (of course)

 

if you cared to read i said hindu is not a religion but a way of life

--i cared and asked what is this way of life, and your ultimate answer was "live and let live"

 

you are just prejudiced, this part of the world does not deny anyone Hainama

--of course, i do not say anything different

 

but the fact still remains the majority of the followers come from this part of the world.they preserved against all the odds the way of life,

--so the religion of india is harinama samkirtana? it would be very nice and this is a true traditional name to give to a religion, not hindu (that means nothing as we have demonstrated).. but i do not think that other indian religion would agree, because many are opposite

 

I am not prepared to deny the glory to people of this land.

--who's denying?

 

at the same time no one is barred from this train

--train of harinama samkirtana is very nice, running from eternity and saving infinite souls... hinduist train does not exist ("live and let live")

[maadhav]

thanks guest,

please pick a user name.

 

 

<< If you sing Govinda Nama Sankirtan, to them, your posthumously prove your point. >>

 

please tell me in different words what you are saing by the above words. I could not get the message.

 

<< But I dont see this point with Christians. >>

 

that is rare exception.

the fact is that by the book - bible -

xianity cannot allow any other religion on earth.

that will surely hurt the hindus in india.

the pope wants to harvest thousands of souls from india.

 

pope does not like a missionary teaching vedanta and give xianity.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jai Ganesh

 

 

Re

(-it is a reality very easy to find also in this forum.... but there's no question of respect, respect is for everyone, the question is if it is right to put everything under the same label. I respect muslims, christians, atheists.. but i am not christian, muslim or atheist)

 

Precisely my point, Hindu Is universal, it does not denote a particular group or groups weather you belong to a group or not you are enjoyed to do your action in dharmic way.

 

Re

(--but you are not convincing in explain this common ground, so i do not see because i am a miserable, you do not see otherwise you should be able to explain)

 

I did not imply you were miserable.

 

Re

(--yes, same surface, different core... is this a group? religion? dharma? way of life?)

 

Same surface is enough ground for same group, similar concept of dharma is a way of life.

 

Re

(--if you do not care for difference, let us not make another artificial difference.. hindu-not hindu... especially if this difference is based on nothing)

 

Not caring for difference does not mean there is no difference.

There is a huge difference in out look to life, say for sanatan (Hindu) dharmas and other religions.

Still it does not bother me if it does not impeach on me.

 

 

Re

(--so without an idea on god on wich basis one say to belong to a religion? or to be religious?)

 

Taken out of context.

 

I will answer anyway, when one asks who am I? Where am I going? You will be on right track if your inquiry is sincere.

 

 

Re

(--so if we can find only differences or superficial, inessential things, what is the common ground of hinduism?)

 

Brahman Jignasaya.

 

 

Re

(--because it is common culture that india's (or better earth's name) was bharata-varsa (the land of king bharat) in origin... if you make a search in this forum you will see that many use this name with the same meaning i am saying)

 

And before King Bharat it was known as what? Dont get me wrong I am not disputing Bharat-varsa.

Still your statement of, new york in kenya, made no sense to me.

 

RE

(--not phobia, simply i know the peoblems in mixing undiscriminately at religious, personal, political, national level... peace starts from the respect for differences)

 

Why create this imaginary problem in your mind your reasoning against Hindu unity is incompatible with your statement for peace above.

 

 

Re

(--why are you saying what i say as pessimistic?)

 

Because that is how you come across in your post, you have no regards for Hindu unity that exist; you keep highlighting the differences.

 

Re

( --the important thing is reality, not the way we see it... it is licit to have differences, but if i see something black, and if you see the same thing white, you cannot to put both us in the same "group who sees white"... or "group who sees black".. or to concoct a "group who sees red")

 

Have you seen a rainbow it looks beautiful.

 

 

Re

(--no, there's many so called hindu schools that believe that sunya is the ultimate reality and god as father, as mother, as effulgence is a maya for ignorant people)

 

So let them find out, the hard way, one has to rise above this difference.

 

 

Re

(--i cared and asked what is this way of life, and your ultimate answer was "live and let live")

 

That is not my ultimate answer but is a part of some answer I gave.

Yatha Mati Tatha Gati, meaning, as you desire you act.

 

Re

(you are just prejudiced, this part of the world does not deny anyone Harinama

--of course, i do not say anything different)

 

You could have fooled me.

 

Re

(--so the religion of india is harinama samkirtana?)

 

It is not the only path prescribed in the Shastra.

 

Re

(it would be very nice and this is a true traditional name to give to a religion,)

 

in your opinion, keep it up one day it might be known by this also.

 

After that we will debate or argue, which names to chant, or this name is better then that.

Or if you chant those names, other then this, it is an aparadh.

 

Re

(not hindu (that means nothing as we have demonstrated).. but i do not think that other indian religion would agree, because many are opposite)

 

There for it would be wise to let it be, at least it means nothing to some, or to others various groups, what is the harm in that, it is not sectarian.

 

Re

(I am not prepared to deny the glory to people of this land.

--who's denying?)

 

You are, see it is very clever way of doing it. You will say Dharma is for anyone and no Hindu will or can deny that. Then you will turn this round and say therefor it not Hindu.

 

 

Re

(... hinduist train does not exist ("live and let live")

 

You can deny that but I do not care, I am on it

 

Jai Shree Krishna.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Same surface is enough ground for same group

-if it is enough for you..

 

similar concept of dharma is a way of life.

-wich is this similar concept of dharma?

 

There is a huge difference in out look to life, say for sanatan (Hindu) dharmas and other religions.

-wich difference if many so called hindus are more close to other religions than to other so called hindus?

 

I will answer anyway, when one asks who am I? Where am I going? You will be on right track if your inquiry is sincere.

-you will be sincere and i will be sincere in hearing.. and maybe we will agree, but the point of discussion is if there's a common hinduist answer to these question... and there's not

 

Brahman Jignasaya.

- i and my school of thought translate it and interprete : "now let us learn about my nature of spiritual soul eternal servant of god"..... many other "hinduists" will object, so even this basic concept is not something that puts hinduists together

 

Why create this imaginary problem in your mind your reasoning against Hindu unity is incompatible with your statement for peace above.

-because the so called hindu unity is mixed with big fanaticism, nationalism, mix indiscriminately opposite beliefs, and take out the universality of dharma. If you give the name "hindu" to sanatana dharma, many will believe that it is indian....... and it is not at all true.. gita never says that it's message is for hindu or indians only

 

you have no regards for Hindu unity that exist;

-on wich principle?

 

you keep highlighting the differences.

-i am not frightened by them

 

Yatha Mati Tatha Gati, meaning, as you desire you act.

-ah very important contribution... hinduism is "live and let live" and "as you desire you act"... very nice, very deep

 

After that we will debate or argue, which names to chant, or this name is better then that.

Or if you chant those names, other then this, it is an aparadh.

--if all the so called hindus would agree that hinduism is chanting a name of god, this would be a true great religion.... but many hinduists not only are not agree with you on the name.. many say that this name is maya, many others say that also the existence is maya. So where's a common idea to build hinduism on?

 

You are, see it is very clever way of doing it. You will say Dharma is for anyone and no Hindu will or can deny that. Then you will turn this round and say therefor it not Hindu.

-even the "so called" hindus are included in "anyone"

 

You can deny that but I do not care, I am on it

--your freedom of thinking is not in discussion

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(-if it is enough for you..)

 

yes.

 

RE

(-wich is this similar concept of dharma?)

 

there are many, of which concept of Karma is very important

 

Re

(-wich difference if many so called hindus are more close to other religions than to other so called hindus?)

 

that we are the soul and not this body, Karma,Moral Values

Non violence,truthfulness,tolerance.

respect for all the living being in creation.

 

christain beleive there is no soul in animals, that anyone who does not beleive in christ will go to hell.both muslim and christains say there is eternal hell.muslim say to kill a kafir is no sin come on you do not want me to go on?

 

 

Re

(-you will be sincere and i will be sincere in hearing.. and maybe we will agree, but the point of discussion is if there's a common hinduist answer to these question... and there's not)

 

May be you highlight the differences.

 

RE

(Brahman Jignasaya.

- i and my school of thought translate it and interprete : "now let us learn about my nature of spiritual soul eternal servant of god"..... many other "hinduists" will object, so even this basic concept is not something that puts hinduists together)

 

Jignasaya means to search for truth,your school of thoughts exist within the various thought that exist within (Hindu) sanatan dharma let us not become a close book.

 

Re

(Why create this imaginary problem in your mind your reasoning against Hindu unity is incompatible with your statement on peace above.

-because the so called hindu unity is mixed with big fanaticism, nationalism, mix indiscriminately opposite beliefs, and take out the universality of dharma. If you give the name "hindu" to sanatana dharma, many will believe that it is indian....... and it is not at all true.. gita never says that it's message is for hindu or indians only)

 

1.dont change the subject. your statement on peace was incompatible.

 

2.I nor any indians will say the message in Bhagvat Gita is for any particular group, it is universal,sanatan dharma means eternal,since hindu respect even an insect as a soul,where are they climing exclusiveness.

 

your problem is you are prejudiced, as soon as you mention Gita, Krishna, Shiva. westerner or a muslim will imediately say oh Hindu God.Why because Hindu worship That, this is not our fault, nor our good luck, but we have come a long way in our journey searching for truth. every one is welcome, but do not expect a bed of roses, on the path in search of truth, it is like walking on a blade of sword.

 

i will not coment on fanatism or nationalism, we are not disscussing this

 

RE

(you have no regards for Hindu unity that exist;

-on wich principle?)

 

ON live and let live.

 

RE

(you keep highlighting the differences.

-i am not frightened by them)

 

nor am i Thats make two of us.

 

Re

(Yatha Mati Tatha Gati, meaning, as you desire you act.

-ah very important contribution... hinduism is "live and let live" and "as you desire you act"... very nice, very deep)

 

you can make fun if it makes you lough i am happy.

 

Re

(--if all the so called hindus would agree that hinduism is chanting a name of god, this would be a true great religion....)

 

And it was not before when they were doing Tapasya, big Yagya big temple worship?

 

Re

( but many hinduists not only are not agree with you on the name.. many say that this name is maya, many others say that also the existence is maya. So where's a common idea to build hinduism on?)

 

i have no problem with any names with any one, most hindus respect all the names of the lord, only some sectrian group put restrictions on some names so dont throw this on hindu.

common ideas are already there, only you are hell bent on highlighting the differences that do not bother us.

 

Re

(You are, see it is very clever way of doing it. You will say Dharma is for anyone and no Hindu will or can deny that. Then you will turn this round and say therefor it not Hindu.

-even the "so called" hindus are included in "anyone")

 

That is very big of you.

 

Jai Shree Krishna.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

(-wich is this similar concept of dharma?)

there are many, of which concept of Karma is very important

--karma si not a religious law, it is scientific, it is called cause and effect and it is too marginal to have it as the only common base of a religion, a culture... if you dug a little you will discover it in all religions

 

that we are the soul and not this body, Karma,Moral Values

Non violence,truthfulness,tolerance.

respect for all the living being in creation.

--every religion say these things

 

christain beleive there is no soul in animals,

--a large group among hindus believe that soul does not exist

 

christain beleive there is no soul in animals, that anyone who does not beleive in christ will go to hell.both muslim and christains say there is eternal hell.muslim say to kill a kafir is no sin come on you do not want me to go on?

---good ora bad these are some principles, they are also supported by very high number of teological esoteric principles.. so there's a heavy base to say that christianism exist, islamism exist, vaishnavism exist, advaitism exist, mayavadism etc.... but hinduism is based only on the karma law.. that is manifestated or hidden in all religions of the world... is it sufficient?

 

Jignasaya means to search for truth,

--yes but jignasa brahma means search for truth in brahman... and this world, in this context, is interpreted in opposite ways

 

your school of thoughts exist within the various thought that exist within (Hindu) sanatan dharma

--my school exist, i think it is sanatana dharma, other thoughts exist, some are for me sanatana dharma, others are only dharma, others are adharma, and the word hindu is only a word

 

I nor any indians will say the message in Bhagvat Gita is for any particular group

--so why call it hinduism?

 

your problem is you are prejudiced, as soon as you mention Gita, Krishna, Shiva. westerner or a muslim will imediately say oh Hindu God

--lo let us wipe away this prejudice avoiding this hindu fanaticism and exclusivism

 

i will not coment on fanatism or nationalism, we are not disscussing this

--i am discussing of it, if you cannot answer it is not my fault, but this is very important to understand the point

 

ah very important contribution... hinduism is "live and let live" and "as you desire you act"... very nice, very deep)

you can make fun if it makes you lough i am happy.

--it makes me happy and simultaneously sad because all this hindu mess is about "live and let live" and "as you desire you act"... and you keep discussing

 

(--if all the so called hindus would agree that hinduism is chanting a name of god, this would be a true great religion....)

And it was not before when they were doing Tapasya, big Yagya big temple worship?

--tapasya and temple worship is marginal if we do not find a common meaning in these actions.. and in hinduism there's not.. only "live and let live" and "as you desire you act"... not very deep

 

i have no problem with any names with any one, most hindus respect all the names of the lord,

--the problems is not "wich names".. the problem is that only for a group of so called hindus this is a common ground and the core of the religion, and that for other big groups this concept is maya, material.... so how can they be reunite?

 

common ideas are already there,

--live and let live?... or there's something else?

 

only you are hell bent on highlighting the differences that do not bother us.

--i have demonstrated that there's differences, you cannot demonstrate that there are not, you have not said anything serious about these common hinduist ideas... hell is ignorance not logic

 

 

[maadhav]

<< --a large group among hindus believe that soul does not exist >>

 

not true, as i knpw the hindus first hand and in person.

 

<< I nor any indians will say the message in Bhagvat Gita is for any particular group

--so why call it hinduism? >>

 

it is just a new name of sanatana dharma,

and we have freedom to choose any name.

so we chose to accept that name.

drink some apple juice if you do not like it.

 

<< .... so how can they be reunite? >>

 

we have no obligtion to show you how.

you will see that they will.

will it be any problem for you?

sure, if you are a muslim in india

and do not give up islam.

 

 

[Guest guest]

<< --a large group among hindus believe that soul does not exist >>

not true, as i knpw the hindus first hand and in person.

--mayavadis and some other nichilist school... organized schools, not singles, big schools and influential

 

<< I nor any indians will say the message in Bhagvat Gita is for any particular group

--so why call it hinduism? >>

it is just a new name of sanatana dharma,

--no sanatana dharma was different, no advaitins, no mayavadi, read puranas,,... and a dharma has to be founded on common principles, so no common principles, no hindu darma but many dharmas in india.. sometimes opposite. So what's hinduism?

 

and we have freedom to choose any name.

so we chose to accept that name.

--and you have choosen a wrong name

 

drink some apple juice if you do not like it.

--i hope to find it with the real name the next time

 

<< .... so how can they be reunite? >>

we have no obligtion to show you how.

--no you haven't any way to give any demonstration that it is dharmic.. and your behaviour shows what do you want to do with hindu nationalism.. fanaticism and oppressing

 

will it be any problem for you?

---of course, to see corruption of vedic culture and seeing it becoming a local tribal phenomenon, and not a thing to help all the world.. bharatavarsa originally was the world

 

sure, if you are a muslim in india

and do not give up islam.

--of course, you are ready, injustice, violence, discrimination based on religion, what you will do if some honest people born in india won't give up islam?.. will you kill them? torture? jail? exile? rape?... where's the difference with the terrorist you want to fight?

 

where's dharma?

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(--karma si not a religious law, it is scientific, it is called cause and effect and it is too marginal to have it as the only common base of a religion, a culture... if you dug a little you will discover it in all religions)

 

Take karma out of religion all the meaning of life becoms unscientific.this concept of karma is well understood in Hindu, ask a street cleaner (no offence ment here) knows this well.

No theoligion in the west has come up with this concept.

 

If you dig a little you will see a lot of common grounds, if you go to india you will find still a culture so beautifuly preserved and practiced.

 

you have chosen to see the differences only, i can not do any thing about it.

 

I see our discussion is going round in circle, and see no point in answering rest of your post.

good luck in your spritual journey

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[viji_53]

Rama actually wanted to fight Vali face to face only. Because of Sugriva's doubt whether Rama would be able to kill Vali made Rama take quick decision to kill Vali from hiding. Rama & Laksmana felt very guilty about the killing. That was reason why Lakshmana's anger( about Sugriva not doing anything to trace Sita even after rainy season ) subsides when he saw Angada & Tara approached him & Rama. That was reason Sugriva was pardened.Also Rama as Krishna took the death from the hunter's hand who was Vali in his previous birth showing to the world the wrong is wrong whether it is committed by God or human being. Every action has equal & opposit reaction.

HariBhol!

 

[Guest guest]

The best explaination I heard about Ram's behaviour is within the Ramayan itself. When Brahma reveals Ram's Godhead to Ram, Ram says that he is only human. He does not know he is God; whatever he does is according to what he had been taught by his society, and not as a divine code of conduct to be followed by every human.

[Guest guest]

Jai Ganesh

 

I guess this is what we all mean when we say, Hindu is a way of life

Following in the foot step Lord Ram the maryada Pursotam.

How to behave with Guru, parents,brothers, sisters,friends how to conduct in a society.

If we do this only then we can have peace.

 

Jai Shree Ram Jai Shree Krishna

[maadhav]

since you said jai sri ramchanra,

i would think that you are not a muslim or xian.

 

and it seems you like sanatana dharma.

and still we have difficulty understanding other.

 

at this time i think that you are not born on the vedic land. being so, you have no attachment to the land. you also will argue that attachment to land is not good spiritually, and i cannot deny it technically.

 

you are not giving solution to the problems i see,

and are not willing to accept solution i propose,and distory the interpretation of my messages.

 

mysteriously you adamantly do not pick a usr name to confuse the discussion.

 

so, what you wish about me?

what you wish about the hindus?

what you wish about India and their people?

what you do or propose to do

to wipe out evil ideologies?

 

again, pick a user name and give some definite respose.

 

[Guest guest]

and it seems you like sanatana dharma.

and still we have difficulty understanding other

--i understand you very well, you have a political purpose more important that respecting really the dharma (as you have said many times) so you are constantly trying to bend the dharma to your theories and not the opposite

 

at this time i think that you are not born on the vedic land. being so, you have no attachment to the land.

--sorry but this is your imagination

 

you also will argue that attachment to land is not good spiritually, and i cannot deny it technically.

--no attachment to our land is good, we have not to abandone what karma gives to us, we have to turn this karma in yoga, but to put our political ideas over religion is not at all good. I am not for forgetting india's problems but i am not to solving them against dharma... because it would be only temporary with consequances more painful than our present situation

 

you are not giving solution to the problems i see,

--personally we have to follow guru, shastra, sadhu without bending religions and leaving union where's union and division where's division.. politically we have to elect politicians with the real will to stop terrorism. We are not autorized to make injustices to stop the injustice and we have to stop this ajodya quarrel, build the temple some km away and to start worshipping ram and spreading ram nam... if we are occupied in this war, we are not honouring ram, we are only listening to our false ego. Material worls is made of faults and errors, some demon has destroyed ram temple centuries ago.. the most important thing is to make another one, in ayodya or at 2, 20, 200 km to ayodya.. it does not matter..

 

mysteriously you adamantly do not pick a usr name to confuse the discussion.

--this possibility is given to me from the structure of this forum.. let moderators or web masters to do this job, you are one like me

[maadhav]

<< mysteriously you adamantly do not pick a usr name to confuse the discussion.

--this possibility is given to me from the structure of this forum.. let moderators or web masters to do this job, you are one like me >>

 

i have a uniqie user name, you do not.

pick one and we can talk more.

you are not a casual visitor here.

you live here.

so better to have a username.

if this little thing is difficult for you to understand,

then i doubt if you would be able to understand my other points, but i would try sincerely if you pick a user name.

till them i have my good reasons for what i say, and i really believe in them. i could explain, but one who does not want to understand, will never understand it.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jai Ganesh

 

If we want Ram rajya then we we have to follow the path Sri Ram showed us by his example.

 

sri ram jaya ram jaya jaya ram.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[maadhav]

yes, jai sri ram!

 

please be specific. what solutions you are proposing?

 

ram was a kshatriya.

when asuras were disturbing rishis doing yagnas,

rame killed the asuras. i am proposing to not kill the muslims of india but to really persue them to give up islam.

additionally, no law of india should be anti hindu and pro muslim.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

"i am proposing to not kill the muslims of india but to really persue them to give up islam."

 

From what I've heard very few Hindu sects actively seek converts. Out of the few that do I think Arya Samaj have been the most successful at reverting muslims back into Hinduism. Even Gandhi didn't like this and tried to ban them so he could appease the muslims.