WE ARE GODS 2

[barney]

I have been bombarded by some of you but that does not deter me from throwing light on this issue of “we are Gods”.

Have any of you heard of Astral Projection? A condition in which there is separation between the physical and enteric body. Astral projection often occurs during sleep. Some have learned to consciously do astral projection and there are instances where information has been brought back and then verified. A cord connects the physical body to the enteric or astral body. This cord is often referred to as the “Silver Cord.”

In Mahabarath Arjuna requested the help of his istadeva who is Krisha and his desire transformed into astral projection of his athman into Krishna whom he believed in as his istadeva. But to explain such to ordinary human being would not be an easy task and so he related the whole eposide as an incedent that happened. It may sound strange but that is how I see it. We do not have any historical facts to back up the Mahabarata and so it is stamped as mythological story. A hindu way of life is riddled with mysteries such as rituals of consecrations and other duties in order to appease the Creator. But all these are not done out of ignorance but according to sastras. What the priest or gurukal fail o do is explain the purpose of such rituals. The secret of this act is to appease our selves so that our atman or the dweller would be pleased and physiologically that would generate the energy to give positive result. Now this is what we call occult science on positive thinking. It is all there in our scriptures but for reasons only known to the guardians of the Vedas it was kept as secret documents. May be they felt they are the intelligent people well versed in Sanskrit and that translating such documents would result in lose of their livelihood.

 

We possess the Chakras also known as energy centers or spiritual centers. According to Hindu and occult concepts these are centers of psychic power situated in the subtle body that penetrates the physical body. There are said to be six main chakras that ascend from the base of the spine. Various authorities actually differ on the number of chakras, some citing seven. Much like the aura, some psychics and mediums say that they can see these centers, which are a mixture of color of varying brightness. The various centers usually are described red at the base; orange at the spleen; yellow at the solar plexus; green at the heart; blue at the throat; Indigo at the brow; and violet at the crown chakra. Some authorities differ on these colors. Certain spiritual healers say that they work on the chakras to stimulate a healing of the physical body. When this chakra is energized one can do wonders. Does any one know why only man has such qualities and not any other species in the planet? That is because man is God the creator we all are searching for, but he had not discovered the real self and so he indulges in petty things in life. In Spiritualism, the Prime Creator, First Cause, God, whatever you think of when you think of the force that started reality in the first place, is known as Infinite Intelligence. Yes, it is correct to say that Infinite Intelligence is God. Spiritualists do believe in God. But there are a few important differences in the way Spiritualists understand God. Infinite Intelligence is not a father figure that offers rewards and punishment to his children.

Infinite Intelligence influences our world and our lives through the Principles of Natural Law. Natural Law, spiritual energy and purpose are thought to emanate from Infinite Intelligence. The more a person can learn to live in accordance with Natural Law the more that person will find life to be agreeable--or at least understandable. Put another way, living in a way that violates Natural Law is certain to create difficulties in a person's life.

Living in accordance with Natural Law is not a matter of doing "good" or "bad." Yes, living in a way that is consistent with Natural Law would seem to have good results for a person, but this goodness would be in the same context as the goodness one derives from not violating a traffic law, and thereby, not being given a traffic ticket.

Spiritualists seek to understand Natural Law as a way of life. Spiritual Maturity can be defined as the understanding of Natural Law and living in accordance with those Principles. A spiritually mature person can be defined as a person who has learned to live in accordance with Natural Law, rather than in conflict with it.

Spiritualist will say that understanding and living in accordance with Natural Law is an equivalent with the idea of "obeying the will of God." May be it would be difficult for some of you to swallow the real truth but as I have said earlier do not look for God elsewhere, coz he is in you and in me but due to our ignorance and misguided teachings we have been take for a tour. Yes, it is knowledgeable to learn from all angles and understand its concept but eventually if you are gifted you will realize the real truth behind all this phenomena. I know it would be difficult for most of us to practice or bring out the energy of Infinite Intelligence in us as this would take many years of vigorous exercises and meditation but ultimately we would arrive there after numerous re-birth because that is the karma of our action.

Please do not take me wrong by thinking that I am here to introduce a new religion. It is nothing new as it has been there for thousand of years. Our elders had introduced it in a different format that is all. No one is stopping you from praying to Krishna, Vishnu, Rama, Shiva, Sakthi, Ganesha or Murugan. They are all in one deep inside you and you can bring any of them out when you have achieved the level of controlling the five senses and energized the chakra.

 

Barney.

 

[Guest guest]

I have been bombarded by some of you

 

if you call "to bombard" to give different opinions, how do you call real bombarding?

 

if you cannot bear opinion's difference why write in a forum? forum means place of discussion

[maadhav]

ok, you are god.

 

om namo bhagavate barniyaya..

 

but then how you, the supreme god, fail to get your point across? god does not fail.

(only sometime he chooses to act as if he failed.)

 

 

[barney]

Maadhav,

 

Being sarcastic will not help you in acheiving wisdom. You have to explore all angles. I'm not saying your belief and concept is wrong but at the same time you have to investigate other thoughts too. If you believe I am wrong than what is stated in the Gita is wrong too coz in the Gita Krisha advised Arjuna to search his conscience for the real self. In the Bible it says "MAN IS MADE IN THE IMAGE OF GOD" and Jesus said "when I was sick you visited me, when I was hungry you fed me and when I was naked you clothed me". But his followers asked him when did they do all this to him and Jesus replied " when you do this to your fellow men you have done to me". Do you know what he meant? I am sure you have the wisdom to understand what he meant.

 

You can call all the names of Krishan and pray 24 hours a day uttering his name but if you do not serve your fellow men he will not even turned towards you. That is because you have not invoked your atman where he resides and that is why I say we are all gods. See how difficult for you to understand a simple contex. If you had really understood what I meant in my post you would not be sarcastic towards me. People read the bible, the vedas and Koran but they fail to comprehend the real essence of these scriptures and that is why they have all the misinterpretations and squables over who is right and who is wrong. If you try to tell a simpleton that he is God, he would not understand but when you tell him a story that Gods is so and so whose wife is Radhe and he killed the demons and so on than he would listen carefully and understand that God is a Supreior Being and he lives up in heaven. Scriptures were written in order to make people of lower intellect to understand that there is a being called God and he should be appeased by certain rites and rituals. But those who are above level need not learn such coz they know where is God and what are his qualites. May be it is still too early for you. But don't worry over the years you will come to terms with him. And please do not sarcasticly say "om namo bhagavate barniyaya". Say it whole heartily and end it with "namo namha" coz when you say such you are saying it to HIM. Like I would say "OM Namo Bhagavate Maadhavaya Namo Namaha". and it will increase your spritual energy to generate your atman. When you go to the temple you will see the Gurukal or priest resiting slokas and mantras to the diety in the form of archna but the real fact is abishegam and archna that he does on behalf of you goes towards the spritual atman of the gurukal. That is why every individual has to do his own ritual and archna in order to energize his atman so as to reach the higher level. To say in brief we are all Gods and need to be praised and pampered.

[Guest guest]

You have to explore all angles.

--your are not offering any angle to explore, no logic explanation, and when one has some different idea you are not able to answer. So please show your angles

 

If you believe I am wrong than what is stated in the Gita is wrong too coz in the Gita Krisha advised Arjuna to search his conscience for the real self.

--that it is not to say that arjuna is god or we are god... bhagavad gita says that the real self is found surrendering (sarva dharma..) to krsna, not finding that we are krsna

 

In the Bible it says "MAN IS MADE IN THE IMAGE OF GOD"

--yes, because god has a body, image, form, svarupa.. and we have it also

 

Jesus said "when I was sick you visited me, when I was hungry you fed me and when I was naked you clothed me"

--this is asymbolism to teach to help the more unfortunate, if you take the gospel as a whole you will not find anything that suggest that we and god are the same person... nothing

 

You can call all the names of Krishan and pray 24 hours a day uttering his name but if you do not serve your fellow men he will not even turned towards you.

––this is your speculation, offensive speculation that shows that you have no arguments different from offence.. if one loves god, who's the father loves also the brothers, the danger is when one believe that everyone is god and think: "why i have to help a brother, hes god, he does not need my help"

 

See how difficult for you to understand a simple contex.

--if it is so easy to understand why you cannot give some more logical explanation but you are only able to feel your self superior, insult and complain?

 

If you try to tell a simpleton that he is God, he would not understand but when you tell him a story that Gods is so and so whose wife is Radhe and he killed the demons and so on than he would listen carefully and understand that God is a Supreior Being and he lives up in heaven.

--you may be right, but you are keeping the explanations for yourself... god does not forget, he is ever conscious of his identity, so if i do not remember to be god, i am not god. This is a very simple thing, try to answer... it is not very high philosophy

 

Scriptures were written in order to make people of lower intellect to understand that there is a being called God and he should be appeased by certain rites and rituals. But those who are above level need not learn such coz they know where is God and what are his qualites.

--the scriptures are very easy to read and learn, you that are superior and beyond the scriptures are not able to explain the logic of anything you are saying. And why you are sometimes using scriptures, like bible, like gita to demonstrate (ah, ah, ah!!) your views? if they are for ignorants why you use them?

 

May be it is still too early for you.

--so shut up, go away and come back when we will be ready, what's the use to speak with us if we are not at your higher level? and why are you in the desperate need to communicate your speculations if you (god) are satisfacted and complete in your self? why you need our approval? why are you in the need of communicating your ideas?

 

Like I would say "OM Namo Bhagavate Maadhavaya Namo Namaha"

--say this mantra, this is the name of madhava, krsna who killed the demon madhu...

 

When you go to the temple you will see the Gurukal or priest resiting slokas and mantras to the diety in the form of archna but the real fact is abishegam and archna that he does on behalf of you goes towards the spritual atman of the gurukal. That is why every individual has to do his own ritual and archna in order to energize his atman so as to reach the higher level.

--if one's god, he does not need any ritual or procedure to increase his godness or consciousness to be god.. god's eternal and conscious. These ceriomonies are meant to offer service to god and to make spiritual advancement to revive our spiritual condition as servant of god. WE have to remember, because we are little and maya can easily conquer us, god is not subjected to maya, blindness, illusion, forgetfullness, maya is is energy, subordinate to him

 

To say in brief we are all Gods and need to be praised and pampered.

--god does not need, because being omnipotent he does not need anything from others... you need to be praised and prayed, so you are not detached, you are under illusion, pride and you are not god

 

answer point to point with logic and scriptures (if you believe in them.. otherwise logic is enough) ... if you can do it,

 

otherwise you are not god, god is able to answer to any question

 

 

 

 

[barney]

Jaya, may be even this explanation will not satisfy your ego.

 

1. Your are not offering any angle to explore, no logic explanation, and when one has some different idea you are not able to answer. So please show your angles

 

Ans: My angle of argument has been given in my following post but it is you who don not seem to understand the real meaning of it.

 

 

2. That it is not to say that arjuna is god or we are god... bhagavad gita says that the real self is found surrendering (sarva dharma..) to krsna, not finding that we are krsna

 

Ans: Krishna is only one of the names to describe God so what is your point here? Sarwa Dharma is equal value to all religions but what has that got to do when I say Arjuna is God too? As God dwells in all atman should you not consider all to be God? Just as you believe would you spit at Krishna’s Statue or his picture? If you can give such respect to a clay idol why is it so difficult to accept yourself as God when he resides in your atman?

 

 

3. Yes, because god has a body, image, form, svarupa.. and we have it also.

Ans: Yes, we have it too but whose is it? This body is not yours but a loan to you until you finish your karma here. In the end you will joined him permanently. Can you at leat understand this?

 

 

4. This is asymbolism to teach to help the more unfortunate, if you take the gospel as a whole you will not find anything that suggest that we and god are the same person... nothing

 

Ans: You have to read and understand the contents. No scripture will openly tell you the secret behind it. “God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and GOD IN HIM." John 14:23

 

 

5. This is your speculation, offensive speculation that shows that you have no arguments different from offence.. if one loves god, who's the father loves also the brothers, the danger is when one believe that everyone is god and think: "why i have to help a brother, hes god, he does not need my help"

 

Ans: If your idea is this than you have many cycle of birth coz you have not realized the real truth. No amount of explanation would satisfy your ego. Failing to realize that God is omnipresent and omnipotent and dwells in all living entity.

 

 

6. If it is so easy to understand why you cannot give some more logical explanation but you are only able to feel your self superior, insult and complain?

 

Ans; Mine is neither complain nor self-superior. I am a humble being explaining what I feel but if that is offence to you than I am not to be blamed. You too can explain why you believe your approach is correct and I will try to understand it.

 

 

7. You may be right, but you are keeping the explanations for yourself... god does not forget, he is ever conscious of his identity, so if i do not remember to be god, i am not god. This is a very simple thing, try to answer... it is not very high philosophy.

 

Ans: Do you believe God dwells in you atman? If you answer is no than the devil is in control of your senses. Need I say more?

 

 

8. The scriptures are very easy to read and learn, you that are superior and beyond the scriptures are not able to explain the logic of anything you are saying. And why you are sometimes using scriptures, like bible, like gita to demonstrate (ah, ah, ah!!) your views? if they are for ignorants why you use them?

 

Ans: If the scriptures are easy to learn than why so many interpretations by many scholars? Than why did Adhi Shankara, Saint Ramakrishna Pramamsa, Saint Ramalinga Adhikal and many others appeared?

 

 

9. So shut up, go away and come back when we will be ready, what's the use to speak with us if we are not at your higher level? and why are you in the desperate need to communicate your speculations if you (god) are satisfacted and complete in your self? why you need our approval? why are you in the need of communicating your ideas?

 

Ans: I am not wrong when I say your senses are now controlled by the devil coz asking someone to shut up shoes his ego and superiority complex. Be humble if you want to increase your spiritual knowledge.

 

10. Say this mantra, this is the name of madhava, krsna who killed the demon madhu...

 

Ans: Yes, but saying alone will not suffice because there is more to that. Uttering 1008 names alone will not help you to reach his abode.

 

 

11. Iif one's god, he does not need any ritual or procedure to increase his godness or consciousness to be god.. god's eternal and conscious. These ceriomonies are meant to offer service to god and to make spiritual advancement to revive our spiritual condition as servant of god. WE have to remember, because we are little and maya can easily conquer us, god is not subjected to maya, blindness, illusion, forgetfullness, maya is is energy, subordinate to him

 

Ans: Sorry, I rest my case here.

 

12. God does not need, because being omnipotent he does not need anything from others... you need to be praised and prayed, so you are not detached, you are under illusion, pride and you are not god

 

Ans: I am not in the formless God but HE is in me and you but in you he has not been invoked because as long as you have ego only the other side will appear which is the devil.

 

answer point to point with logic and scriptures (if you believe in them.. otherwise logic is enough) ... if you can do it,

 

otherwise you are not god, god is able to answer to any

Question.

 

Ans: I have tried to explain from your mental ability and if that is not enough look forward for my next posting.

 

 

Sarvesham Svasti Bhavatu

Sarvesham Santir Bhavatu

Sarvesham Purnam Bhavatu

Sarvesham Manglam Bhavatu

 

May auspiciousness be unto all;

May Peace be unto all;

May fullness be unto all:

May prosperity be unto all;

 

Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah

Sarve Santu Niramayah

Sarve Bhadrani Pasyantu

Ma Kaschid-Duhkha-Bhag-Bhavet

May all be happy;

May all be free from disabilities

May all behold what is auspicious:

May none suffer from sorrow:

 

Asato Ma Sadgamaya

Tamaso Ma Jyotir-Gamaya

Mrityor-Ma Amritam Gumaya

Lead me from the unreal to the Real

Lead me from darkness to Light

Lead me from mortality to Immortality

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ans: My angle of argument has been given in my following post but it is you who don not seem to understand the real meaning of it.

--be a little more humble, you havent given any demonstration and answer... let us see now

 

Krishna is only one of the names to describe God so what is your point here?

--in spiritual realm there's no difference between name and the subject, my point is that if gita speaks of krsna and arjuna we have to read the erson krsna and the person arjuna, not some other concoction. Otherwise better to create our own book with our own theories

 

Sarwa Dharma is equal value to all religions but what has that got to do when I say Arjuna is God too?

--that if in te conclusive part of a doctrine, in the main verse of a book you find one subject saying to another subject to do an action ("surrender to me") you cannot say that this book, this doctrine says that the two subjects are one and krsna is some projection of arjuna's mind. or you write your own book and you compile your own religion

 

As God dwells in all atman should you not consider all to be God?

--wrong information.. paramatma is close the jiva, not coincident... and yogi meditates on it, to meditate you need three things subject1.. the meditator(who thinks of..), subject 2.. the object of meditation and an action, to meditate, to think of

 

Just as you believe would you spit at Krishna’s Statue or his picture?

--you are spitting on god's state or picture saying that he's not real but a projection of one's mind

 

If you can give such respect to a clay idol why is it so difficult to accept yourself as God when he resides in your atman?

--in spiritual realm form and essence is the same thing, if you have a statue or image sculpted or painted with the satcitananda form of god, you have actually an expansion, avatara, of the supreme personality of godhead. The fact that you see the stone or metal is due to maya. if you want i can go deeper on this subject, but i say you that you are offending the faith and devotion of million people. but no problem, if you have this behaviour against sri murti it is possible to explain more.

God resides close to me, if you discriminate between you and your atman, aside this improper using of the atma word, it means that you feel yourself and god as separate, discrete, existences... and it is true, you and god, two persons

 

This body is not yours but a loan to you until you finish your karma here

--yes because in this world the concept of satcitananda rupa is perverted in mortal body, but if we have body here, we must have bodies also in spiritual realm, otherwise spiritual is less than material. So if you read vaikunta's description in veda, itihasa and purana you will find that we have a satcitananda eternal form... not karmic... because there's not material karma in the absolute

 

In the end you will joined him permanently. Can you at leat understand this?

--i can understand that you're illogic... if individuality and variety of individualities exist in the relative plane, they must exist also in the absolute. Because it is illogic an absolute with less features than the relative

 

Ans: You have to read and understand the contents. No scripture will openly tell you the secret behind it.

--this is the way to save you from the illogicity of your theories, simply you have to demonstrate, not speculate... if you want to say something to others..... if you keep your theories for yourself, no problem, you are free to concoct anything and follow blindly

 

If your idea is this than you have many cycle of birth coz you have not realized the real truth.

--no explanations but judgements... very nice

 

No amount of explanation would satisfy your ego.

--no.. what i know and speak i have learned, so there's some explanations who satisfy my ego. Try to give yours instead of insult

 

Failing to realize that God is omnipresent and omnipotent and dwells in all living entity.

--yes god is omnipotent having the power to emanate parts and parcels with eternal personality and existence, he's omnipotent because he can pervade universe with his impersonal form but also with personal parts and parcels like we are.... and the fact that you say "dwells in" reveals the real truth as written in shastras, that on our heart there's us as jivatma aside god as param atma. And this param atma is the object of meditation of yogis and the source of existence of the spiritual master, sri guru... who creates the link between souls and supersoul obscurated by maya

 

I am a humble being explaining what I feel but if that is offence to you than I am not to be blamed.

--the offence is not in having different ideas, the offence is in "you do not understand because you are such and such"... and this is your average behaviour

 

Do you believe God dwells in you atman?

--already said

 

If you answer is no than the devil is in control of your senses. Need I say more?

--simply you need to explain insted of offence.. and you have to explain how god can forget to be god, and how maya, who is subjected to god, can defeat him obscurating his consciousness. Thing that is ontologically impossible being god CIT, conscious...

 

If the scriptures are easy to learn than why so many interpretations by many scholars?

--it does not means that they are false, even if we are not scholars, scriptures are made for make us understand the way to liberation, so we have to deal with them and choose the school that we feel more logic and effective. So choose, or you appreciate scriptures, or you stop quoting them to "demonstrate" your theory. If they're false and unreliable why you quote them?

 

Be humble if you want to increase your spiritual knowledge.

--it is you that continously say that we do not understand, that you have an higher level of comprehension, that we understand in next lifes... not mine... if you feel like that why speak to such inferiors? shut up and wait our developement... this is also humbleness

 

Uttering 1008 names alone will not help you to reach his abode.

--if you do not think that there's not madhava, and there's not his above, but everything is your mental projection it is not impossible, because the name of god is omnipotent as god, but it is very difficult

 

Ans: Sorry, I rest my case here.

..no surprise

 

Ans: I am not in the formless God

--no.. you are in the formless god, because you are part of the absolute.... is the formless god that is not in you, he's the source, you are emanated

 

as long as you have ego only the other side will appear which is the devil.

--god has no evil or devil side... god is omnipervadent, there's no place leaved to devil, antigod, antichrist or whatever

 

Ans: I have tried to explain from your mental ability

--if you were using my mental ability you were convincing me, start to use yours to do it

 

f that is not enough look forward for my next posting.

--you are not forced, if you want to be silent meditating on your god's identity i have no problem

 

(thanks for the beautiful prayer.... it speaks of people who are searching and finding the truth, not discovering that they are the truth.... if you quote scriptures follow them)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Are you Jaya Sri Radhey? If you are I`m so glad to see you, my friend contributing your peace of mind to this forum. You see, I missed your insightful articles about Krsna and Radha. Yes! we are GOOD.. Indeed we are GOOD.. We are GOOD..Not BAD..BUT GOOD..See yah! Don`t forget its me Dr. Melvin alias Krsnaraja Prabhu.

[barney]

Mundaka Upanishad

 

Chapter II

1

The Luminous Brahman dwells in the cave of the heart and is known to move there. It is the great support of all; for in It is centred everything that moves, breathes, and blinks. O disciples, know that to be your Self—that which is both gross and subtle, which is adorable, supreme, and beyond the understanding of creatures.

2

That which is radiant, subtler than the subtle, That by which all the worlds and their inhabitants are supported—That, verily, is the indestructible Brahman; That is the prana, speech, and the mind; That is the True and That is the Immortal. That alone is to be struck. Strike It, my good friend.

3

Take the Upanishad as the bow, the great weapon, and place upon it the arrow sharpened by meditation. Then, having drawn it back with a mind directed to the thought of Brahman, strike that mark, O my good friend—that which is the Imperishable

4

Om is the bow; the atman is the arrow; Brahman is said to be the mark. It is to be struck by an undistracted mind. Then the atman becomes one with Brahman, as the arrow with the target.

5

In Him are woven heaven, earth, and the space between, and the mind with all the sense-organs. Know that non-dual Atman alone and give up all other talk. He is the bridge to Immortality.

6

He moves about, becoming manifold, within the heart, where the arteries meet, like the spokes fastened in the nave of a chariot wheel. Meditate on Atman as Om. Hail to you! May you cross beyond the sea of darkness!

7

He who knows all and understands all, and to whom belongs all the glory in the world—He, Atman, is placed in the space in the effulgent abode of Brahman. He assumes the forms of the mind and leads the body and the senses. He dwells in the body, inside the heart. By the knowledge of That which shines as the blissful and immortal Atman, the wise behold Him fully in all things.

8

The fetters of the heart are broken, all doubts are resolved, and all works cease to bear fruit, when He is beheld who is both high and low.

9

There the stainless and indivisible Brahman shines in the highest, golden sheath. It is pure; It is the Light of lights; It is That which they know who know the Self.

10

The sun does not shine there, nor the moon and the stars, nor these lightnings, not to speak of this fire. When He shines, everything shines after Him; by His light everything is lighted.

11

That immortal Brahman alone is before, that Brahman is behind, that Brahman is to the right and left. Brahman alone pervades everything above and below; this universe is that Supreme Brahman alone.

 

 

 

Chapter II

1

He, the Knower of the Self, knows that Supreme Abode of Brahman, which shines brightly and in which the universe rests. Those wise men who, free from desires, worship such a person transcend the seed of birth.

2

He who, cherishing objects, desires them, is born again here or there through his desires, But for him whose desires are satisfied and who is established in the Self, all desires vanish even here on earth.

3

This Atman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Atman—by him alone is Atman attained. It is Atman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature.

4

This Atman cannot be attained by one who is without strength or earnestness or who is without knowledge accompanied by renunciation. But if a wise man strives by means of these aids, his soul enters the Abode of Brahman.

5

Having realized Atman, the seers become satisfied with that Knowledge. Their souls are established in the Supreme Self, they are free from passions, and they are tranquil in mind. Such calm souls ever devoted to the Self, behold everywhere the omnipresent Brahman and in the end enter into It, which is all this.

6

Having well ascertained the Self, the goal of the Vedantic knowledge, and having purified their minds through the practice of sannyasa, the seers, never relaxing their efforts, enjoy here supreme Immortality and at the time of the great end attain complete freedom in Brahman.

7

The fifteen parts go back to their causes, and all the senses to their deities; the actions, and the Atman reflected in the buddhi, become one with the highest imperishable Brahman, which is the Self of all.

8

As flowing rivers disappear in the sea, losing their names and forms, so a wise man, freed from name and form, attains the Purusha, who is greater than the Great.

9

He who knows the Supreme Brahman verily becomes Brahman. In his family no one is born ignorant of Brahman. He overcomes grief; he overcomes evil; free from the fetters of the heart, he becomes immortal.

 

 

[Guest guest]

i understand ... and it is very easy to find wich is the purpose of these descriptions if vedic scriptures are read as a whole...

 

so be more clever and read everything

 

then use the logic if you can, if we obviously are not god and vedas cannot say lies, you have to have the complete picture to understand the reality

 

and

 

if for you god's lilas are false, why you use another section of scriptures for your purposes? be loyal and reject everything

 

[Guest guest]

Dear barney,

 

A saintly vision is accessible within our hearts, there all real saints sense the same truth. God is wonderful, He is the giver of everything, He is the lover of everyone, He is there for us to be experienced, He is the most tender person, He is described in slokas as the source of everything, He is described both as personal and impersonal, He is presented as a friend of everyone, He is presented as the ultimate reality, He is achievable by everyone, He is the server of everyone, He is within our hearts, He is inspiring us, He is travelling with us everywhere also during astral-/meditation travels, He is always with us also when we can not perceive Him, He has billions of forms, He has wifes, He is the gardener of everyone and everything, He is understanding us alltimes, He is crying when His eternal children in all consciousness states are suffering, He is playing with everyone, He is singing the names of all His eternal children, He has billions of names, He has billions of forms/aspects, He is the eternal Father of everyone, He is perceivable in open/humil hearts by everyone, He is there for being accessed and experienced by everyone, He has aspects we have never heard about, His primary aspect is Krishna, His eternal consort is Radharani, His heart is formed of the beautiful forms of all His eternal children.

 

In love to you and to everyone,

Frodo

[Guest guest]

 

Dear jaya,

 

All honour, love and respect to you, wonderful soul, for your clearness in responding to barney's points.

 

In love,

Frodo

[Guest guest]

i also give my respect to you, jaya sri radha govinda

[maadhav]

yes barney, I understand it.

 

advaita patha - gyan yoga - is a valid path.

and so are other yogas, including bhakti yoga.

 

now try to understand my point below

and then let me now if you could, or need more help.

 

1. at this time of terrorism worldwide and in india, we the vedic people should not waste time in argueing about advaita-dvaita. focus on the common invaded eneney - islam -instead.

 

2. one who chooses the path of advaita -gyan yoga - should not/cannot also practice bhakti yoga at the same time, and vice versa. this is becaue when you say we all are gods, then a bhakta has no bhagavan to worship, and his sadhana is to worship bhagavan. krishna clearly has said in gita that the sadhana of impersonal - advaita- is very difficult ( bahUnAm janmanAm ante gyAnvAn mAm prapadyate). bhakti, He says, is easy. while gyani wants to realize god by his own might, a bhakta realizes god by god's mercy and by using the tactic of maya against maya. for a bhakta bkakti is not only the means, it is the end as well. he is satisfied doing bhakti any time, all time. a gyan yogi on the other hand, knows how much he has progressed and how much far he is from the goal. another danger a gyan yogi encounters is that he can get puffed up knowing how much knowledge he has.

 

considering the above, dvaitis and advaitis need to respect each other and unite to fight the common enemies, and never fight within. just know: never practice both together. just pick one, and never bother to think about the other.

 

now tell me if you understand this.

 

a jiva is one how is not self realized yet.

most people are like that.

so, until they become fully self realused (reach brahma bhoota stage), they should not say, "i am god", or "you are god" when the other person is not self realized yet.

 

if you and i both at this time are self realized,

then we both are one, and there is no communication bewteen us, except a self dialogue. there is no conflict - difference of opinion between us. but because we both need to comunicate with each other to come to a common understanding, we are not god yet. meaning we have a long way to go to achieve self realization.

 

till one is self realized,

one should not act as if he is god.

 

a bum on the street can possibly become a math professor. but till he become, he should not tell, "i am a math professor", and i am sure you would not tell a bum that he is a math professor. so, then why tell him or me that he or i are god? to become god is far more difficult than becoming a math professor.

 

so, the bottom line is:

until we realize we are god,

we should not tell or think we are god.

 

a mantra advaitis use is:

 

OM ha.msaH soham

paramAtma chinmayam

sat chit aananda svarUpam

sah aham brahma

 

in complete contrast a bhakta's mantra is:

 

Om namo bhagavate vaasudevaya

or

sri krishna sharaNam mama.

 

so, no advaiti should try to convert a bhakta to advaita, and vice versa. however, the vaishnav aacharyas already have done it. so, never try to re-invent the wheel.

 

bhaja govindam moodha mate.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"In Mahabarath Arjuna requested the help of his istadeva who is Krisha and his desire transformed into astral projection of his athman into Krishna whom he believed in as his istadeva. But to explain such to ordinary human being would not be an easy task and so he related the whole eposide as an incedent that happened."

 

Are you suggesting the Krishna did not exist even in the mahabharata, but he is just as projection of Arjuna? As far as I know Krishna is one of the characters of the Mahabharata and he is in it throughout, not just the Gita. I know you're Advaitist, but sometimes the lengths Advaitists go to twist Hindu scripture to suit their interpretation is rediculous. When you take the Gita as a whole it seems that it is more Vishistadvaita text, rather than Advaita or Dvaita. I think Advitist don't take Krishna to be historical but merely symbolic. Then do they take the manifestations of Brahman as a 'form' of God to be illusion too? What about the manifestations of God that Sri Ramakrishna saw?

[Guest guest]

"Are you suggesting the Krishna did not exist even in the mahabharata, but he is just as projection of Arjuna? As far as I know Krishna is one of the characters of the Mahabharata and he is in it throughout, not just the Gita. "

 

Didn't krishna say he's in every one of us, he's present in every living thing. If we could get in touch with that aspect of ourselves, woulnd't that be getting in touch with a small portion of krishna??

 

-Subroto

[Guest guest]

Dear maadhav,

 

Bhaktas do not need to have a God, Bhagavan, just to project their hope in something/someone that in reality does not exist. Bhaktas, Vaishnavas, do not project anything in what they say, because they can perceive with their hearts and with fully healed senses, the constant presence of Bhagavan Krishna/Vishnu in their lifes.

 

Understanding the difference between correct perception of the truth with the healed hearts and hoping to perceive it with a still not-healed heart is key important for sometimes be able to personally perceive the truth ourselves, the truth of the omnipresence and omnismile of Bhagavan Krishna, our eternal Father.

 

Impersonalists will soon cease to exist, their perception of the truth, their understanding of the Vedas, will soon be naturally extended to that way they need to finally personally be capable to understand that all of us, in all the existing consciousness states, either still suffering, either partial realized, either fully realized, are eternally beloved children of God, children of Krishna, God-Father and of Radharani, God-Mother.

 

People out there that still hope that the reality is not like I describe, i.e. that God-Father, Krishna and God-Mother Radharani exists, and that all of us eternally in all consciousness states are children of God, found their hope/philosophy/thoughts/conclusions/beliefs in following criteria:

- experiencing of deep suffering without the perception of the protection by God and the angels during those suffering conditions, resulting in a denying of the Personality of Godhead, Krishna (because in moments of suffering they have not perceived Krishna's presence, although He was/is always here with us but in shock states we can hardly perceive the presence of God or of the angels)

- pure asuric heart mentality to not willed accept the reality as it is

 

Those two criteria forms the base of people that think/hope that God-Father and God-Mother does not exist and that in liberated/realized consciousness state all of us become the source, become God. But fortunately this type of projecting-thoughts/philsophy is ending very soon to exist. More and more still advaita/voidist/atheist follwers, will soon be capable themselves to experience the presence of Krishna (Vishnu) and Radharani (Sri) in their life, which will than automatically make obsolete this speculated philosophical concepts.

 

Also to note here that although people that belong to the 1st category of wonderful souls that have suffered and have not perceived Krishna's presence during the suffering situations, in their deepest self are pure Vaishnavas, knowing the fact that all of us, in all consciousness states, are eternally children of God. As soon as all layers of static energies that cover the deepest self of the soul are removed, every honest advaita/voidist/atheist follower will automatically sense and admit that we are eternally children of God.

 

In love with everyone existing, especially with those souls that have suffered so much that temporarily started movements of thoughts denying the existence of God-Father, Krishna and of God-Mother, Radharani

 

Frodo

 

[Guest guest]

no.. dogs

[barney]

You cannot see him in dog but I can see. To me every living thing appears as God. Try to discover that first. Discover yourself first before you try to undestand Krishna. Without knowing yourself first you will not know what Krisha or his lelas. Yest the stories are beautiful and soothing to listen but there is alot behind that stroy called Gita upanisham. You can quote all what has been dicussed betwen the baktha and Krishna but it serves no purpose if you do not know the core issue of the whole episode. Being sarcastic will not help any of you.........

[Guest guest]

hello,

 

barneyji u only always used to tell we hindus should be united & face muslims.

 

in "hajj" thread, theres a muslim challenging hindus. why cant u face him instead of squeabling with hindus here ?

 

i am already facing him in the thread

[Guest guest]

You cannot see him in dog but I can see

--if you see god it means that god and you are different.. you see, he's seen

 

To me every living thing appears as God

--in a sense you are right, we all are parts and parcels of god, and, because god is eternal, all his parts are eternal, so parts are persons and never lose individuality and personality. And god is also eternal and conscious, so he never loses his consciousness to be god.. god is the giver of remembering and forgetfullness (as stated in gita), but he's not subjected to them.

 

Try to discover that first. Discover yourself first before you try to undestand Krishna

--to discover krsna is necessary for understanding our true nature, and it is essential because we are conditionated souls entangled in this material world.. only with god's help we can understand ou nature of eternal spiritual souls.

So this understanding has to be contemporary, you cannot discover yourself if you do not discover the source of yourself, god, and you cannot discover god if you do not understand your true nature

 

You can quote all what has been dicussed betwen the baktha and Krishna but it serves no purpose if you do not know the core issue of the whole episode

--these are spiritual pastimes, there's not core and surface.. everything is spiritual. To say that there's an inner meaning inside or beyond is a deep musinderstanding, it is like to say that these pastimes ar like human activities, and this is a childish mistake

 

Being sarcastic will not help any of you.........

--it would be a big help for you if you understand at least that you cannot have any valid answer. I suggest to you to be honest with yourself and reconsider all your conclusions, if you cannot bear a little discussion with a simple ignorant like me maybe your theory has some faults... and you are not god, god is cit, completely conscious, he remembers to be god and he's the veda personified.. he would have no difficulty in defeat me in a discussion

 

god or dog?

[Guest guest]

he's not your enemy, your "enemy" is who says that your beloved sri vishnu is a projection of his fantasy, that vishnu is maya and when we will be advanced we will forget Him, muslims at least believe in god

[Guest guest]

This Jaya seems to be the same fellow who in a thread claimed that Param Brahman emanates from Krishna, by distorting and mis reporting translation of Gita.

 

He thinks he is the God. That is why he gets irritated when someone says that we all are potential Gods.

 

 

[Guest guest]

This Jaya seems to be the same fellow who in a thread claimed that Param Brahman emanates from Krishna, by distorting and mis reporting translation of Gita.

-yes it was me and i had demonstrated that krsna is the source of brahman being the param brahman.. another demontration is that krsna says at the end "surrender to me.." not "merge in me" or in brahman... so better for you to have something more intelligent to say. Sarcasm could be nice, but put something on it to make it more palatable.

 

He thinks he is the God. That is why he gets irritated when someone says that we all are potential Gods.

--if one's god he's entirely god with full powers and opulence (=bhagavan), potentially means that one will perhaps get the full power in the future, and it is not logic for god

 

so sarcasm is nice, but if it is backed by some intelligent ideas it is better

[Guest guest]

"Didn't krishna say he's in every one of us, he's present in every living thing. If we could get in touch with that aspect of ourselves, woulnd't that be getting in touch with a small portion of krishna??"

 

Krishna is within in us as pure conciousness - the lifeforce within us. My point is in the mahabharata, Krishna is there all throughout as one of the characters, not just in the battlefield. He speaks of the relationship between dualism and non-dualism. I don't think he is a projection of Arjuna at all, therefore he is also Duryodhan, Bhishma etc. Is Barney implying that all the sages and sants who have 'seen' God have really just seen a projection of themselves? Is it an illusion or imagination?

 

I know advaitist say we 'merge into brahman', but isn't this universe a projection of Brahman, so in that case everything is Brahman already, including all the mass murderers, terrorists and rapists they are all gods...just not self-realised gods! Isn't it a little rediculous? God deluded by it's own maya! But then again, isn't maya God too (although a negative aspect of illusion) That's the problem I have with Adviata, it's just not practical.