What did Ram and Krishna wear on their forehead?

[gokulkr]

you are just quoting from tamasic portions. its not authentic.

 

sthala purana of rameswaram temple is tamasic. its not authentic.

 

just because shaivatees wrote a sthala purana attached to a ancient temple doesnt make the purana as authentic.

 

 

[gokulkr]

many shaiva scriptures are against vedas & smritis. so they are called tamasic.

 

its not because they speak about shiva.

 

even if a vaishnava scripture has some portions that are against vedas & smritis , then it would also be considered a tamasic.

 

u shaivatees just blindly follow without actually understanding wat vedas tell.

[Guest guest]

You are repeating the same thing like a worn out Record Plate.

As far as smarthas are concerned ( i think with Shaivites also) all Vaishnava scriptures are Tamasic.

 

So we nullify your tamasic areguements.

[Guest guest]

So the same goes for Vaishnava scriptures as well isnt it .Becos all of them were written by Vaishnavas they might have added whatever they wanted and they might also be not authentic . Am i correct ? . Gokul ! you really need to come up with some good arguments other than this tamasic scripture thing.So all sthala purana of Vaishanava temples are also not authentic.

[gokulkr]

< --- And for your information, Saint Agastya, who passed on the Aditya Hrudaya mantra to Rama himself wore a " Pattai". -- >

 

sorry theres no description in "original valmiki ramayana" that agasthiyar had pattai in his head. u people imagine like that.

 

 

just by accusing me will not make your arguement sensible.

[gokulkr]

vaishnava scriptures support vedas.

 

also most of vaishnva sthala puranas support vedas & smritis. so they are authentic.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Gokul

 

Is Buddha an avatar of Vishnu according to you ?

[gokulkr]

demonstrate that ur shaiva scripts are satvic. demonstrate that ur shaiva scripts are supported by vedas.

 

without demonstrating u cant take a decision yourself.

 

since you people always quoting from tamasic sources, i am forced to use same words again.

 

 

[gokulkr]

Adi-buddha is incarantion of vishnu.

 

not the gautama buddha.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Gokul

 

Is Adi Buddha one of the 10 incarnations of vishnu. Believe me iam asking this question out of ignorance not to irritate you.

[Guest guest]

Just like Smartha Stala Puranas are Tamasic to you ( Not just saiva alone, but Ganapathi, Skanda, Shakthi) so are Vaishnavite to us.

 

YOu guys have gone to the extent of putting naamam to Ganesh who is the son of Siva.

 

So it is you guys who has screwd up with the scriptures. You are the ones who tamper the scriptures.

 

And as far as Agasthya is concerned, if YOUR Ramayana does not have it, then its your fault. Probably you are looking at bible or quran and becuase of your close mindedness think it is Ramayan(It shud be Saint Vladimir Bible and you are thinking it as Saint Valmiki Ramayan). Aaditya Hrudayam was delivered to Rama and no one can deny that fact. And saint Agastya was a great soul and he wore a pattai ( I am not telling by watching Sirgazhi Govidarajan movie). May be you make conclusions like that, but Saint Agastya wore a pattai.

 

Even the aboriginal tribes have the habit of smearing the bodies with holy ash. None of them put Naamam.

 

And the MahaMrunjaya Mantra is chanted when one applies pattai, which indicates the habit of Pattai was in existence at the time of the mantra.

[Guest guest]

Is he mentioned in any of your "Saatvic Vaishnava: scriptures?

Is so give us an instant.

Even a school kid knows there are only 10 avtars of Vishnu.

This is a news to me.

[Guest guest]

Just like you have confused St Vladimir Bible with St Valmiki Ramayan, I think you have confused Adi Shankara with Adi Buddha.

 

[Guest guest]

Did Google search yoield results for search for " Adi Buddha as an incarnation of Vishnu"?

If google search takes so long, then try " School Kids awareness of number of Avatars of Vishnu " in google search.

 

That will give you things easy for you to understand.

[Guest guest]

Dear Guest

 

Let us be patient and allow Gokul to come with his points. Let us not come to conclusions.It is very interesting that in tamilnadu ( atleast in tamilnadu) people believe Narayana to be the brother of Parvathi and in Madurai temple there is a very beautiful statue of Narayana doing kanyadhan of Meenakashi to Somasundara( Shiva). If you have seen the statue u will understand its a masterpiece.Sorry for the digression.

[Guest guest]

You know this was a good thread until Gokul had to come on and mess it up with propaganda. It's seems that's his only purpose on this board. Of course him being a Vaishnava he is gonna be biased, just as a Shaivite would.

 

I'm not interested in Vaishnava and Shaivite squabbles, as they are baseless and they do nothing put prove which side has the bigger ego, though neither side will ever admit this, it's clear to see. It's like two little kids fighting over candy.

 

The only source of any authority is the Vedas and Upanishads as they are Sruti, the puranas are a lower authority so let's discuss exactly what the Vedas say about holy ash or symbols.

 

I'm not sure if Krishna ever worshipped any deva, though I think Rama worshipped Shiva (including through Shivling) and a mother Goddess (I think Durga) while he was seperated from Sita and was planning to rescue her.

 

I'd like to see references from Valmiki Ramayana and Mahabharata to see what they wore on their head.

[Guest guest]

Dear Saketram,

 

Yes. Thats correct. But I get irked when the same standards are not applied to all other scriptures and people go the extent of ridiculing non Vaishnava sects.

 

There was once a post that said " Advaitam is an Idiotic Concept" and degraded shankara like anything.

 

This is something not acceptable.

With regards,

Periya Kurangu

[Guest guest]

Dear Guest

 

It is the same scriptures that Gokul is mentioning which has told "Let good things come from all directions" and "Truth is one it is being seen in different ways"

[Guest guest]

The only point is Vaishnavas will ignore all this, and call them tamasic.

[Guest guest]

Gokul

 

I took this from a posting in another thread

http://www.hindu-religion.net/showflat/cat/hinduism/65325/0/collapsed/5/o/1

which says the following in the words of Prabhupada .

 

"According to the Vedic literature, Buddha was an incarnation of Krsna who had a special power and who appeared for a special purpose. His system of thought, or faith, was accepted widely, but Buddha rejected the authority of the Vedas."

 

Iam sure he is not talking about Adi Buddha here. So when Buddha is an incarnation of Vishnu but he ridiculde vedas then according to you does Buddha become a tamasic personality.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

How many Avatars of Vishnu are there?

Is there a Purana about Adi Buddha?

Are any of the Avatars mentioned in Vedas( the 10 standard ones)?

Is the name of Buddha ( leave alone Adi or Gautama) mentioned in Vedas?

Where exactly does adi buddha fit in the order of the Dasavatars? ( I mean after Kalki, before matsya? where?)

 

You seem to know a lot about buddhism as well?

 

[Guest guest]

The 'Vibhuti' [sacred ash], is even today, a near-patented product of the southern part of the country. Orthodox South Indians wear the "vibhuti" on various parts of the body, especially after a bath. Originally, 'Vibhuti' was derived as the highly potent 'Bhasma' [ash] arising out of 'Homams' performed with a plethora of medicinal herbs and leaves.

Sixteen varieties of medicinal leaves would be fed to cows. The dung of these cows would be collected after allowing sufficient time for digestion. The collected dung would then be formed into flat cakes and dried in the sun. 108 types of herbs, and twigs ['Samithi'] of high medicinal value would be used in the 'Homam' in which the dried dung cakes would be added. Six types of medicinal leaves would also be burnt along with these.

 

The residual ash, 'Vibhuti', retained the wonderful curative powers of its ingredients. It had excellent diuretic properties. For instance, smearing of "vibhuti" on the forehead after a bath in cold water would absorb the excess moisture in the head region and thus guard against sinus trouble.

 

Similarly, "Vibhuti" would be applied to other phlegm-prone areas such as the throat, chest, etc. Hence the practice of smearing 'Vibhuti' all over the body started off as a medicinal application, became a custom.

 

[Guest guest]

Holy Ash - Some Information

Lord kAlAgni rudra teaches bhusu.ndi - earth came out of the sadyojAta face of the Lord. From this came the gray colored cow called nanda from the dung of which came vibhUti. From the vAmadeva face came the water, from that came the black colored cow bhadra giving bhasita. From the aghora face came the fire, from that the copper colored cow surabhi giving bhasma. From the tatpuruSha face came the gas/air, from which came shAnti and from that came the white colored cow sushIle giving xAra. From the IshAna face came the space, from which came the multi colored cow sumanA giving raksha.

 

The Holy Ash which is called by five names, when pronunced raises the spiritual power of the individual and hence is called vibhUti. Since it burns the sins to ashes it is called bhasita. Since it gives the wisdom to all it is called bhasmam. Since it neutralises the bad things it is called xAra. Since it protects the people from evil forces, it is called raxa.

 

Irrespective of caste, creed, sex and all other differences all the people shall wear the Holy Ash. It is an old adage the says the forehead without the ash is a ruined one. The Holy Ash having the powers of agni and soma refreshes the one who wears it. For the seekers of yoga this Holy Ash kindles the spirit and provides early fruit. When wearing the Holy Ash the mantra shivAya namaH(The Holy Five Letters(1)) is chanted or the sadyojAtAdi paJNcha brahma mantra(2) or the tryambakaM or mAno mahAntam from rudra sUktam(3).

 

The Holy Ash purifies the one who wears it. This purification (bath) is called Agneya snAna. In this the renouced ones would smear the ash in the remains of ritual fire from the leg to the head. Others would smear in the ash from the head to the leg.

 

ska.ndha purANam says that the Holy Ash would have to be worn at the following fifteen places in the body.

 

 

Head

Forehead

Neck

Chest

Both sides of the belly

Two arms

Two Ankles

Two wrists

Two sides of the back

Behind the neck

 

[Guest guest]

Why de we apply the holy ash?

 

--

 

The ash of any burnt object is not regarded as holy ash. Bhasma (the holy ash) is the ash from the homa (sacrificial fire) where special wood along with ghee and other herbs is offered as worship of the Lord. Or the deity is worshipped by pouring ash as abhisheka and is then distributed as bhasma. Bhasma is generally applied on the forehead. Some apply it on certain parts of the body like the upper arms, chest etc. Some ascetics rub it all over the body. Many consume a pinch of it each time they receive it. The word bhasma means "that by which our sins are destroyed and the Lord is remembered". Bha implied bhartsanam ("to destroy") and sma implies smaranam ("to remember"). The application of bhasma therefore signifies destruction of the evil and remembrance of the divine. Bhasma is called vibhuti (which means "glory") as it gives glory to one who applies it and raksha (which means a source of protection) as it protects the wearer from ill health and evil, by purifying him or her.

 

Homa (offering of oblations into the fire with sacred chants) signifies the offering or surrender of the ego and egocentric desires into the flame of knowledge or a noble and selfless cause. The consequent ash signifies the purity of the mind which results from such actions. Also the fire of knowledge burns the oblation and wood signifying ignorance and inertia respectively. The ash we apply indicates that we should burn false identification with the body and become free of the limitations of birth and death. This is not to be misconstrued as a morose reminder of death but as a powerful pointer towards the fact that time and tide wait for none. Bhasma is specially associated with Lord Shiva who applies it all over His body. Shiva devotes apply bhasma as a tripundra (the form of "&ordm; "). When applied with a red spot at the centre, the mark symbolises Shiva-Shakti (the unity of energy and matter that creates the entire seen and unseen universe). Bhasma has medicinal value and is used in many ayurvedic medicines. It absorbs excess moisture from the body and prevents colds and headaches. The Upanishads say that the famous Mrityunjaya mantra should be chanted whilst applying ash on the forehead.

 

Tryambakam yajaamahe

Sugandhim pushtivardhanam

Urvaa rukamiva bhandhanaan

Mrytyor muksheeyamaa amrutaat

 

"We worship the three-eyed Lord Shiva who nourishes and spread fragrance in our lives. May He free us from the shackles of sorrow, change and death - effortlessly, like the fall of a rip brinjal from its stem."

 

 

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure if Krishna ever worshipped any deva

 

you'll find many occurrences in puranas

 

(the problem, if it is a problem, cannot be resolved seeing if krsna worships devatas or siva or devatas worship krsna.. because many times, god, as a lila, shows humans the perfect behaviour of a religious man

 

i, for my studies, realization and practice, i take sri krsna as the supreme.. but he gets a guru, he acts as servant of arjuna driving the chariot, in his father's home there was varahadeva murti and sivalingam, gopis pray to sri durga to have him as husband etc..

 

so the thing is more complicated (and enjoining, blissful in my opinion) that to discover that in one occasion krsna gave homages to narayana or siva.. or the opposite)