Mahatma Gandhi as a sanatani Hindu.

[Guest guest]

you have a little difficulty to remember your own posts.. it is not so bad, you will not die for this only

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

 

Gandhiji is a greater soul than Srila Prabhupada.

--yes.. a materialist politician is better than a saint, your understanding of spirituality is very nice

 

What materialistic aspect did you find in gandhiji's notion for freedom. If he wanted material he could have become an excellent lawyer and made a lot of money.

 

 

Similarly Srila Prabhupada could have simply used all the money from ISKCON. He did not use a penny for himself. He sacrificed his entire life for spreading Vedas in west. Srila Prabhupada's mission is spiritual and greater than Gandhi's mission for political freedom.

 

 

Good joke ! Like somebody was saving shiva was the first vaishnava ,now you have twisted the indian history also .

 

 

It is clearly mentioned in Vedas that Lord Shiva gained his powers by worshipping Lord Visnu(Rig Veda 7:40:5). Anybody who worships Lord Visnu with the right knowledge is a Vaishnava. So Lord Shiva is a Vaishnava.

 

 

Even a small child in india would know who got us freedom. If your argument was true then netaji must have been called the father of the nation. With due respect to nethaji , his efforts on freedom were also immense.But gandhiji is the forerunner in the freedom struggle.

 

Krishna talks about karma yoga in gita. Good example of a karma yogi is gandhi. Dont abuse him,atleast for the sake of srila prabhupada.

 

 

One point is Gandhi's efforts for freedom struggle did unite people, but Britain was forced externally by other powers to grant freedom to India. This is the actual reason and Gandhi's influence in this is not that much. One needs to know the effects of second world war, American involvement and pressure on Britain for freedom of India etc.

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

 

A great soul is one who sacrifice his life for the poor and meek. Tell me what Srila Prabhupada sacrificed for? I respect Srila Prabhupada for his [only] effort in preaching the Gita to the westerners. Besides that he has nothing great to be proud of.

 

 

Barney is clearly exposing his hatred for Vaishnava Acharyas. On the one hand he does not even undersstand that ISKCON is present in so many parts of the world. Today, ISKCONs presence is felt everywhere that first Gita book I read in a remote town in Tamil Nadu is that of Srila Prabhupada's translation.

 

While Barney being a Shivite praises Sivaya Subramanyaswamy(a Shivite Guru), he denigrates a Vaishnava Guru(Srila Prabhupada). He forgets that there are about 90,000 followers of ISKCON only in USA. One has to consider so many other countries from Europe, middle-east and Asia. What ISKCON has achieved is far more than what Saiva Siddhanta Church achieved. Not to mention Srila Prabhupada is not even alive. Considering what Srila Prabhupada achived in a short span of 10 years and at an age of 70 tells more of this great Guru. Surely his achievements over a span of 10 years are a lot better than most Saiva Gurus achievements over a span of 50 years.

 

It is interesting to note that Barney statements on Srila Prabhupada. He states that Srila Prabhupada can be praised only for praching Gita to the west. ISKCON has temples in so many countries around the world. They have published numerous scriptures(all of them translated by the humble Guru Srila Prabhupada at age 70 or more). In the begining he used to type all his works and sell them and make money. This money was again used to create more copies. His life in USA began without any financial backing these Saiva Gurus had from their home country. From being a no one in USA, Srila Prabhupada has built a organization that exists in most parts of the world today. His translations and works are more comprehensive than what the Saiva Gurus achieved with financial backing from Hindus over a span of 50 years.

 

Now anyone can tell who is greater here. Gurudeva's achievements over 50 years dwarfs before Srila Prabhupada's achivement in 10 years.

[Guest guest]

Y'know Govindarham,

 

Y'know Govindaram,

 

you keep saying:

 

"CC:Madhya 3.14

When He heard all the cowherd boys also chanting Hari! "Hari!" Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was very pleased. He approached them, put His hand on their heads and said, "Go on chanting like that."

 

Is that like "parlez vous huma-huma?"

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

I have no idea what your saying/

 

Bonjour Devotee Le Krsna, thats all I know.

[Guest guest]

Some of my hostel mates in IIT madras were ISCKON. Their behaviour was a bit strange from normal students.

They gave some ISKON books to Budhha group and said buddha is also an avtar of Krishna.

Sir, you shud have seen the reaction in those guys' face. They shouted in some north indian language. And after that ISKON never meddles with the buddha group.

 

And I saw some fervent activities in the ISCKON group till the semester exams. When the exams were over, the guys have removed the mala, stopped wearing the naamam, and became normal guys again. I dont know what brought that change all of a sudden.

[Guest guest]

Antha guest onnum mariyathai kuraiva sollalay.

Neenga than konjam koba pattuteenga.

 

Actually, I think he means to say that great people like Shankara, Ramana, etc do not require an approval from Srila Prabhupada, who mainly wrote his version of gita, and spread a version of hinduism more close to christianity and did nothing for the religion and country. I think you shud answer that first.

 

And especially, when in Bangalore ISCKON temple ( do you guys call it temple?...Is it not Hindu...or may I call ISCON Center???) people see pizzas, Samosas as prasadam.

 

Anyway, I can see that you are alone defending your faith inspite of all the attacks. But I like your technique.

 

My boss used to say " If you know, clarify. If you dont know, confuse." I think you are a living example.

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

 

Actually, I think he means to say that great people like Shankara, Ramana, etc do not require an approval from Srila Prabhupada, who mainly wrote his version of gita, and spread a version of hinduism more close to christianity and did nothing for the religion and country. I think you shud answer that first.

 

 

His version of Gita is exactly as per Vaishnava schools like Sri Sampradaya and Dvaita. Do you know all Vaishnava acaryas teach pure monotheism.

 

Shankara, Ramana etc. advaitis are not the only people who wrote commentaries on Gita. Besides Advaita is full of fallacy.

 

 

Anyway, I can see that you are alone defending your faith inspite of all the attacks. But I like your technique.

 

My boss used to say " If you know, clarify. If you dont know, confuse." I think you are a living example.

 

 

Would you care to explain more. I am not confused about anything here. May be it is you people who are very much confused. May be your philosophy dos not stand on stable ground.

[Guest guest]

Y'know Govindaram,

 

you keep saying:

 

"CC:Madhya 3.14

When He heard all the cowherd boys also chanting Hari! "Hari!" Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was very pleased. He approached them, put His hand on their heads and said, "Go on chanting like that."

 

Is that like "parlez vous huma-huma?"

 

 

Post Extras:

 

Govindaram

Member

 

 

 

Reged: 05/17/03

Posts: 995

Loc: ~Nityananda' Hare Krsna'

what? [re: Guest]

04/20/04 01:12 AM Edit Reply

 

 

 

 

 

I have no idea what your saying/

 

Bonjour Devotee Le Krsna, thats all I know.

 

----

CC:Madhya 3.14

When He heard all the cowherd boys also chanting Hari! "Hari!" Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was very pleased. He approached them, put His hand on their heads and said, "Go on chanting like that."

 

 

 

 

[barney]

Dear Raguraman,

 

Forgive me if I give you the notion that I hate Vaishnava Acharyas. I hate no acharayas. Why would I hate them? Did they deprive me of my life for me to hate them. You have misunderstood me. When there are people who condemn Gandhiji for his sacrifice he made to bring independance to India surely a true Indian would not stand to such insults. I respect SP for his untiring work he had done during his life time to spread the teaching of the holy Gita but he fail to teach his followers to be respectful to followers of other dieties. The HK's may not call themselc=ves Hindus but we consider them as one and KC as a branch of Hinsuism.

 

I am a devotee of all Hindu Gods as I see them as one and the same. The Supreme Brahman is he menefestation of all forms and name does not matter for me. But I have my own ishta devata and she is Mother Durga. For me all powers come from her but do I speak of her greatness here. No, I do not because I know there are others who think great of their own personal God like Krishna for Vaishnava. To me it make no difference. As for me I am a Hindu and I know the essance of Hinduism. Do not say I hate Vaisnavas coz as far as I am concern they are Hindus too. But I find that they do not want to be in the fold and like Pakistan they wish to be seperated from the main body.

 

Once again I am sorry if I have offended you in any way. The truth is more important and I will speak my mind if there is any false accusation about Gandghiji although I was not born in India yet I have great respect for the mahatma.

[yasodanandana]

"I respect SP for his untiring work he had done during his life time to spread the teaching of the holy Gita but he fail to teach his followers to be respectful to followers of other dieties. "

 

if respect is your way of life please do not say things without having studied them properly. Prabhupada did not teach anything like that, Prabhupada said that we have more respect if we give them the right role of assistant and servants of Godhead Sri Krsna. And we are taught from the beginning that it is not possible to do any spiritual practice, even chanting he mahamantra, if we do not respect god and his servants. So there's obviously followers who do not follow properly and tthere's difference of opinions, but to take this difference as the GaudyaVaishnavas have not respect to devatas it is a gross misunderstanding.

 

personally i am for stopping this quarrel between prabhupada's followers and gandhi's followers, but please be more careful in your judgement

 

"I am a devotee of all Hindu Gods as I see them as one and the same. The Supreme Brahman is he menefestation of all forms and name does not matter for me."

and you are free to think like that, but you have to respect who think that brahman is not the supreme, but krsna is the supreme and source of brahman and avataras and devas, because it is not done with the intention to blaspheme any spiritual person who has a role in our universe. So, again, you can have a different idea, but it is wrong to think that who think the opposite does it for blasphemy.

If i make the same game of you, i can say that saying that mother durga is nothing but brahman is a dissrespect for mother durga because she's an eternal person with spiritual and divine personality, satcitananda rupa and she's not annihilated by any experience of oneness.

So be careful... i believe that my opinion is more praising sri durga than yours, but i do not say that you have a blaspheming intention in your opinion.

 

"Do not say I hate Vaisnavas coz as far as I am concern they are Hindus too. But I find that they do not want to be in the fold and like Pakistan they wish to be seperated from the main body"

the fact is that if you represent the average hindu idea, vaishnavas, right or wrong it may be, are very different.. but you cannot express so great appreciaion for the tolerance of hinduism and heavily criticize who does not feel himself hindu. I do not feel myself in line with hindu conception, but i do deeply appreciate hindus, where's the problem? In lands and nation when there's dictators, talibans, fanaticism the first thing that goes away is opinion difference.

So be happy that in india and in religions related to india there's opinion difference even on belonging to the same group. I see here many critics on the monolithic, exclusive and proud character of semitic religions... but we want to do the same thing with a superindian religion to rule the world? why?

 

"Once again I am sorry if I have offended you in any way"

the firts person to be offended is yourself, because the karma does not forget

 

" The truth is more important "

now i attempted (sorry for my bad english) to give you explanation why vaishnavas consider krsna as supreme and do not feel themselves hindus, and that it is not for blaspheme and offence. So you can put these points in discussion, but it is not right to find bad intentions in this opinion difference.

So let us discuss... but peacefully as brothers

 

jaya srila prabupada, hare krishna, jaya sri durga mataji (read bhagavat purana and you will find that she appears in mathura as sister of sri krsna bhagavan, and gopis worship Her to have krsna as husband

 

and if you will go in vrindaban i recommendo to you to go to the super excellent durga temple there.. so a vaishnava cannot blaspheme Sri Durga in any way)!!

[Guest guest]

"Ram, Ram"

 

...no, definitely not a mahatma according to shastra.

LOL

 

[maadhav]

<< Y didnt srila prabhupada preach in india. Since according to him the sanatana dharma was not followed properly he could have guided the millions of indians to the right path.Why did he have to choose westeners mostly ?. >>

 

because his guru told him to.

whye he told him to?

because the indians under british got a bad habit of praising and following the westernerd.

so when the west folows krishna bhakti, the indias then would follow it easily.

 

we need religious and other leaders to make the hindus aware of what hinduism is, and make them follow hinduism well. HK's could do a gret job of awakening the hindus, but they need to stop telling HK's are not hindus. when pole wants to harvest millions of souls to xianity from india, why not HK's make the hindus follow sanatana dharma nicely india? HK's know tht the hindus easily follow them, understand them. but they cannot succeed preaching them by telling HK's are not hindus and look down upon the hindus.

 

 

[maadhav]

yashodanandana prabhu, hare krishna!

 

could you help stop HK's hurting the hindus by telling hindus that HK's are not hindus?

 

for a hindu any person who worships krishna is a vedic person, is a hindu or sanatana dharmi.

 

the names and dress and manners of HK's are that of the hindus. the places of pilgrimages of Hk's are in the hindiu land - india. the parampara of the HK's has started in india. gita is the book of hinduism and also the book of the Hk's. so then why tell hindus that Hk's are not hindus?

yes, prabhupada told it, but it was a lie for diplomatic reason (i cannot think of any other reason). a lie, just as bush lied that iraq/saddam has WMD.

 

if a follower of jesus is not a xian

then a follower of krishna is not a hindu.

 

if a small country in africa takes the constitution of USA and makes it its' own, then lives by it, even better than americans, then tells americans that they (the africans) are not americans in spirit, then that cannot make americans feel happy. it gives a reson to americans to hate the africans. this is like bootlegging or hijackcing or stealing or copying and not giving credit due to those who deserve it.

 

<< ... but we want to do the same thing with a superindian religion to rule the world? why? >>

 

no, hindus do not have any desire to convert others, but the hindus will not tolerate any ideology in india that is anti vedic that is out there to wipe out hinduism.

 

but remember that being SP's disciple, you knaw that KC is the best for the whole world, and thanks to krishna that HK's are organized to spread KC. so that is the asnwer to your above question. sanatana dharma is for all. at one time, only it was there all over the world.

 

to think that dharma is like any other religion is a mistake. it is not. it is inherently secular. a hindu nation is inherently secular. it was in the distant past.

and it says that aatataayis must be killed.

asuras must be checked or killed.

krishna advised arjun to do the same when all peaceful proposals were rejected by kauravas.

 

Hk's need to respect the hindus more than others.

the mother culture for Hk's and hindu is same.

sure the hindus need to understand gita well, and many do not. but you cannot teach them if you begin with them by insulting them.

 

also remember that no hindu will ever think of wiping out the HK's from the face of earth. the islam and the xians will not tolerate HK's. they will feel joy if they can wipe out KC from anywhere. how many times they did courts against HK's? who helped HK's in courts? hindus.

has any one sued HK's in india? no. it never will happen.

why? because Hk's are hindus in the eyes of hindus. if they respect you for being a krishna bkakta why you cannot respect them for being vedic persons who kept KC for the world?

 

remember, I am trying to unite, not divide.

there is/ are common enemies around and are very active.

if they win, we loose.

 

if you are of pure brahmama qualites, you may not understnd the reason for unity. but that does not mean kshatriya are not needed. we need preachers like chanakya pandit who are are brahmanas but also can fight like kshatriyas, can train and bless kshatriyas, and can lead them and raise them too.

 

an army of Hk's with mridangans and cymbals with dhotis and tilak, no matter how big in size, cannot win a few followers of ben ladin with ak-47. you see, HKs' non violent and devotional mood does not impress them at all.

for them you are a kafir, and so need to be converted or killed. just as you chant and dance joyfully, they can kill kafirs joyfully. that is a different asuric culture.

 

to win asuras with united effort is easy than to fight separetely. 9/11 is a grand victorius act of ladin, and he did it by uniting his few followers. bush is telling the whole world to unite against terrorism. he is right. this however does not mean he cannot win alone. every country needs to give even a token support for his call to unite.

 

realise the common threat.

then unite,and act.

that is the priority of the time.

 

yes, love asuras, but do not forget to kill them too.

arjun did it.

if you cannnot love asuras ( and most cannot),

that does not mean you should not kill them.

 

there is no readon wny any one should keep on suffering from the asuric ideology followers.

 

total absence of hate is not possible in this material world. to love an asura who rapes your wife or daugher

is adharma.

 

[maadhav]

according to gopal godse who witnessed assasination of gandhi, gandhi did not /could not say any word after shot.

gandhi did not say ram ram.

he just died silently.

 

his political follower spread the work that he did.

(to make hindus respect him)

 

and what did these followers did?

they made shudras politicians and teachers in schools.

made a culture of corruption.

 

did peace come by diving the nation. no.

did the muslim problem in india got solved? no.

 

did gandhi succeed in making muslims non violent? no.

did he succeed in making some many hinsus cowards? yes.

will hindu will stay cowards? no.

 

[yasodanandana]

because his guru told him to.

whye he told him to?

because the indians under british got a bad habit of praising and following the westernerd.

so when the west folows krishna bhakti, the indias then would follow it easily.

--your reasoning is not right, the fascination of india in the west was and is very big. If prabhupada has decided to call his movement "international movement of hindu consciousness" the followers were the same and the job to awake india would were the same... the reasoning on "why hare krishna do not call themselves hindu" is more deep.

 

So, please, do not agree... but do not be irrespectiful making it cheap

 

why not HK's make the hindus follow sanatana dharma nicely india?

--because we consider that sanatana dharma is vaishnavism.... if india becames vaishnava, we call it vaishnavism and problems are at end

 

they cannot succeed preaching them by telling HK's are not hindus and look down upon the hindus.

--the fact is thaw we preach that also hindus are not hindus..

 

for a hindu any person who worships krishna is a vedic person, is a hindu or sanatana dharmi.

--the gaudya vaishnava concept of sanatana dharma is theism, personalism.. so we consider that advaitism or mayavadism is not sanatana dharma, so we do not want to be under the same denomination. Another problem is that hindu is a name of a land, india, and krishna, siva, vishnu, lakshmi, durga and so on, and even sri shankara acharya are not indians or hindu.. they're universal

 

the names and dress and manners of HK's are that of the hindus

--they're from sanatana dharma and the so called hindus derive them from it... we do not think that hinduism and sanatana dharma are coincident, because in hinduism are too many opposite ideas.. and dharmic and adharmic cannot be reunited under the same dharma

 

the parampara of the HK's has started in india. gita is the book of hinduism and also the book of the Hk's. so then why tell hindus that Hk's are not hindus?

--because we think that also indians are not hindus

 

yes, prabhupada told it, but it was a lie for diplomatic reason

--if being an hindu i have to bear these insults to my spiritual master... of course my willing to feel myself hindu is not very much

 

if a follower of jesus is not a xian

then a follower of krishna is not a hindu.

--a follower of jesus is not a palestinian, he take his name by his master or his devata... christ, christian... so vishnu, vaishnava.. krishna, krishnaist and so on... why hindu, hinduist, indian?

 

but the hindus will not tolerate any ideology in india that is anti vedic that is out there to wipe out hinduism.

--it is not a religious problem, it is a police problem.. you can be of the same my religion and be a criminal and to be of another religion and be a very good man... so stop the criminals without bothering of religion. A criminal have no religion, a saint have no religion.

 

Hk's need to respect the hindus more than others.

--i have deep respect of everyone.. but i have to examine very well to say thet i belong to the same religion... but it has nothing to do with respect

 

the mother culture for Hk's and hindu is same.

---mother culture, but the sons have taken different roads

 

also remember that no hindu will ever think of wiping out the HK's from the face of earth.

--neither the opposite

 

the islam and the xians will not tolerate HK's

--harekrishnas (=gaudya vaishnavas) are developing mostly in christian nations, in 1965 there was no gaudya vaishnava temple outside india, now there's hundreds

 

if you are of pure brahmama qualites, you may not understnd the reason for unity

--personally i consider myself a dog in the street... but a pure brahmana (=one who has purely understood the spiritual reality) understands everything, and if you are a religious person you have to surrender to pure brahmanas, not suggest solutions or sayng that they do not understand.

This is materialism, who understand spirit, understands everything, because everything ultimately is spirit

 

an army of Hk's with mridangans and cymbals with dhotis and tilak

--read better holy scritpures, especially bhagavd gita and you will discover that no one teachs that a spiritualist cannot be of a varna different from brahmins.. and brahmins, in gaudya vaishnava, are only a little precentage. So there's no shortage of policemen and soldiers in vaishnavas

 

hari bol

[Guest guest]

hare krishna.

 

i respect SP very much,

but the truth i know, i cannot hide,

even if it is contrary to what SP or any one has said.

 

once i have poste a full article why HK's are Hindus.

You are loked up in your view, and i willnot repeat wht i already have said manytmes here.

 

hindu is a new name (given by anti-hindus but is now well known over the world) of sanatana dharmi.

and hinduism is thus a new name of sanatana dharma.

 

nohindu will looe anything if htey all become vaishnavas.

but krishna does give several yogas and there are devas a nd devis. being so, there will be people who will pursue different yogas and worship differetn deva/devis until they come to krishna sooner or later. but because they all are following a vedic path they are hindus. if india is the cradle of sanatana dharma, it is a special place/land. so to respect it is not wrong. even chaitanya has said that those who are born on this vedic land are special.

most HK's are not born there. just as one loves one's mother, one loves one's motherland. so HK's have no attachment for india, but some respect only.

 

to classify all hindus as criminals, or

terrorism as just a police problem is a big mistake.

 

you supported the fact that vice and virtue is no one's monopoly. my point is that when you see a virtuous man following a barbaric ideology (book), then he is a hypocrat, and need to give up that barbaric ideology.

a tolerant muslim is an oxymoron in principle.

all the tolerant muslims need to give up islam.

and all the hindus who / if are malpracticing hindusim,

need to become good hindus. hinduism is defined in gita and not by the conduct of some malpracticeners.

 

any way, it seems we will stick to our views for some time.

 

[Guest guest]

hindu is a new name (given by anti-hindus but is now well known over the world) of sanatana dharmi.

--it is not exact, a dharma cannot have inside opposite ideas.. you cannot classificate together someone who believes that the form of god is the ultimate reality and one who believes that the form of god is maya

 

but krishna does give several yogas

---from krsna's teachings came many things, some are superior or inferior facets of the same message, something are pervertion of the message. Everything has his right to foolow freely any idea or religion, and everyone has to be tolerant and, when it is possible, collaborative. But to not make confusion, everyone has to follow his exact denomination created from tradition. Vaishnava is a denomination with the possibility to find exactly the meaning of it, advaita, the same, shaivism the same, mayavadism the same etc.. hindu has no meaning if not "the religion of india"... india.. hindu.. nothing else

 

even chaitanya has said that those who are born on this vedic land are special

--of course.. and remain special not using religion for politic and materialistic purpose

 

most HK's are not born there. just as one loves one's mother, one loves one's motherland. so HK's have no attachment for india, but some respect only.

--a spiritualist has to be attached to god and to the spiritual master, the land is a thing that we change from life to life.. now i am indian, the next life i am pakistan, the next chinese, the next australian... the only thing that i do not change is that i am an eternal servant of bhagavan sri krsna

 

to classify all hindus as criminals

--absolutely a big mistake... who is that fool who said it?

 

or terrorism as just a police problem is a big mistake.

--there's no religion in killing people because they belong to a faith different from ours... so terrorist are criminals and criminals are a police's(government's, army's) business

 

hinduism is defined in gita and not by the conduct of some malpracticeners.

--sanatana dharma is defined on the gita... not hinduism.... sarva dharma.. leave all religions and surrender to Me (krsna/vishnu/god).. this is the eternal dharma

 

any way, it seems we will stick to our views for some time.

--until some one gives me a sufficient reason to change idea

 

 

 

 

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

Jai Narashima Jayanthi

 

Maadhavji prabhu

 

I have followed your post with interest over a period of time, you are resolute in your unity of hindus which I admire a lot, I must say against a stern opposition from hk you have been undaunted in your belief, and you still ask for their support, I wish you well, my concern is not if they call them hindus or not, for me it is enough if anyone follows the dharma. If we protect the dharma, dharma will protect us.

Mukh me ram or bagal me churi we should guard against.

Westerner bring with them their own culture, which by it self is not a bad thing because we can all learn from each other about the good things in life but it should not be at the expense of our values which we hold so dear.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

or is it the BODY?

 

False Indentification with body, you are attached to HINDU body, KRSNA WILL give you.

 

Hindu as a religion, to term Hindu as a Religious word, to say we are ALL Hindus, is to say all bodies are Hindus.

 

To say all bodies contain an Eternal soul, servant of KRSNA IS the right way.

 

Attachment to Hindu Body, Attachment for Muslim body, Attachment for Christian body.

 

The purport of the Vedas Aham brahmasmi--"I am Brahman"

 

Thats the FIRST point of self-realization.

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

 

Re

(or is it the BODY?)

 

Ask a street cleaner (No offence ment) in India and you will get your answer.

 

 

 

Re

(The purport of the Vedas Aham brahmasmi--"I am Brahman" )

 

If any Hindu disagree let me know.

 

Rest of your post is your view on Hindu, as a material body, i will pass this one

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Madhava

 

I replyed to you be mistake, thx anyway. haribol

[maadhav]

Ganeshprasad ji,

 

yes, you have understood me correctly.

 

while try to convince HK's that they are hindus (vedic people), and they should not ignore or look down at the political interests of the vedic people and the vedic land, i tell the hindus that they need to understand gita/hinduism very well, and do not malpractice it.

they need to unite against the invaded ideologies in india.

 

this unity is easy and possible thru gita.

 

when it comes to talking to teh non-hindus, we shoudl say, "we are hindus, krishna is our god, and gita is our book." internally, we can practice any yoga, and worship any deva or devi. but we should accept as truth what krishna has said in gita.

 

[Guest guest]

hindu is a new name (given by anti-hindus but is now well known over the world) of sanatana dharmi.

 

<<--it is not exact, a dharma cannot have inside opposite ideas.. you cannot classificate together someone who believes that the form of god is the ultimate reality and one who believes that the form of god is maya >>

 

yes, it can and does. what is achintya bheda abheda vada of viashnavas? unconceivabley simultaneously same and different. see gita verse 9.4 and 9.5 (it happens in material science too.) this happens because of our conditioning in the material world. teh statements "krishna is every where" and "krishna is not a part of his creation" are two contradictiory statements and hence unconceivable. kkrishna talks of several yogas, and vaishnavas have chosen oonly one of these yogas - bhaktiyoga - as krishna has recommended. any one has freedom and right to choose any other yoga, and krishna does not mind it ( he us not jealous). why HK's feel a heart burn about it?

 

 

<< ---from krsna's teachings came many things, some are superior or inferior facets of the same message, something are pervertion of the message. >>

 

all the message of krishna is equally good, no part is inferior to another part. perversions or misinterpretation happen in the minds of readers. and each aacharya has his reasons to believe what the message reallys is. this difference will never go away. but a hindu will follow any one aacharya of his/her choice, but will respect other aacharyas too. why? becasue both are folowing gita.

that is the unity. it seems that the minds born of xian bodies have tendency to monopolise evrything they have or accept. "only my way is right" is not the mentality of the hindus. thsi does not mean they are wishiwashi. they follow and out to follow one yoga, one sadhana, one deity. but they respect others. tell me how a vaishnavas will remove corruption form india differently than a karnay yogi or other yogi or durga worshier? apply your faith/sadhana to solve real prolems and show it superiority that way.

to say "i am right and you are wrong" is not vedic way.

still truth is one, but each needs his/her own time to realize it. never push others. let them find truth by them selves.

 

<<Everything has his right to foolow freely any idea or religion, and everyone has to be tolerant >>

 

not every one, even per dharma.

a kshatriya is least tolerant of adharma.

 

<< everyone has to follow his exact denomination created from tradition. >>

 

yes. never be wishi washi.

 

<< Vaishnava is a denomination with the possibility to find exactly the meaning of it,>>

 

a best interpretation of krishna's word can be receive from thelovers of krishna. so HK's hav authority to say wht bhakti yoga is. there are other aacharyas for other yogas.

let them help others understand what their respective yoga is.

 

<< advaita, the same, shaivism the same, mayavadism the same etc.. >>

 

no. krishna does not say so.

the finalgoal is is same, bu not the paths.

the paths (yogas) are different. you cannot walk on tow paths simultaneously. you (most people) cannot understand two paths simultaneously. advaita is very difficult for a bhakta to follow or tounderstand. all hindus are not advaitis. most are bhaktas of various deities.

 

<< hindu has no meaning if not "the religion of india"... india.. hindu.. nothing else >>

 

that is in your mind. please do not spread such image of hinduism. hinduism is not a sectrian thing of only of india.

 

<< --of course.. and remain special not using religion for politic and materialistic purpose >>

 

there is material politics and there is spiritual politics.

chanakya pandit was a spiritual politician. if you live on this earth, you are under a political system. so then why not have some influence on it so that you are not driven by asuras? what did you do to get a goswami elected as your mayor or governer or president? if you do nothing on that line, then do not complain if you get bad political leaders and bad laws or legal system.

 

<< --a spiritualist has to be attached to god and to the spiritual master, the land is a thing that we change from life to life.. >>

 

if you become a muslim in your next life, then your this life has gone in vain.

for kshatriyas a virtue is "know they enemy"

why? becaue it helpes to figure ways to win over them.

they may or may not love enemies (living enemy is good, but it is not easy for all) but they will win over them for sure. you cannot say that a kshatriy will become a muslim in next life because he thinks of muslims. krishna did not say so. if you cannot fight asuras, then make a wish to be born in an asura family as a devotee/hindu like prahlad.

but never slader kshatriyas. all will never be perfect at teh same time. bless them, guide them, raise top class kshatriyas. throwing responsibility of your won protection on "police and militry" and then slandering them (and theri politicla leaders) that they are not good kshatriyas is not fair or right. such spiritualist cannot help solve the problem of asuras. yudhishir was a kshatriya, and spiritualsit also.

 

 

<< the only thing that i do not change is that i am an eternal servant of bhagavan sri krsna >>

 

yes. that is bhakti yoga. krishna says to fight also.

so fight with asuric ideologies intellectually (assuming you are an intellectual).

 

<< to classify all hindus as criminals

--absolutely a big mistake... who is that fool who said it? >>

 

and never think all hindus are adviatis or mayavadis.

they need loving teachers who can teach them what hinduism is and how to practivce dharma correctly.

 

 

<< or terrorism as just a police problem is a big mistake.

--there's no religion in killing people because they belong to a faith different from ours... so terrorist are criminals and criminals are a police's(government's, army's) business >>

 

no. no. this view comes from the ignorance or lack of ksaatriya training/vision. even the terrorist have their propagandists to make the world think like you think. one who just chants or reads chaitanya charitamrita cannot understand this easily. perhspa some other readers may explain what i am talking. that is a topic by itself.

 

hinduism is defined in gita and not by the conduct of some malpracticeners.

 

<<--sanatana dharma is defined on the gita... not hinduism.... >>

 

again get it -HINDUISM IS A VERY NEW NAME OF SAHATANA DHARMA. SO, WHY TRY TO FIND IT IN ANCEINT GITA?

YOUR NAME YASHODA NANDANA IS NOT IN YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

BUT YOU ARE THE SAME PERSON AS YOUR MOTHER KNOWS IT.

 

<< sarva dharma.. leave all religions and surrender to Me (krsna/vishnu/god).. this is the eternal dharma >>

 

sure. that is bhakti yoga.

and krishna also talks of other yogas and devas.

 

any way, it seems we will stick to our views for some time.

 

<< --until some one gives me a sufficient reason to change idea >>

 

even when i am not your guru, i have spoken the truth as i know. if truth has value in your mind, and if krishan shows mercy, you will understand. i think i have made myself clear enough. and have no desire to say the same over and over.

 

[Guest guest]

yes, it can and does. what is achintya bheda abheda vada of viashnavas?

•••that we are quantitatively different by god but qualitatively the same.... not that brahman is the ultimate reality and the forms, included the god's one are maya

 

why HK's feel a heart burn about it?

••no heart burn, simply gaudya vaishnava sampradaya, from the beginning, does not identificate itself with hinduism.. that's it

 

all the message of krishna is equally good, no part is inferior to another part. perversions or misinterpretation happen in the minds of readers

••and this is my opinion, that under hinduism are present also many misinterpretations of the original messages. So, being peaceful with everyone, there's no purpose in accepting the same denomination

 

it seems that the minds born of xian bodies have tendency to monopolise evrything they have or accept. "only my way is right"

•••surely you know that gaudya vaishnava sampradaya, from the beginning with sri chaitanya mahaprabhu has no interest in identification with hinduism, or a particular people, a nation a race and so on. Chaitanya mahaprabhu in the 14th century had more problems with caste "hindus" than with muslims.

 

apply your faith/sadhana to solve real prolems and show it superiority that way

••there's not a problem of superiority, everyone has the right to do as he wants if he does not hurt other living beings... simply there's no reason and common ground to reunite all these opposite theories and ideas under the same name

 

<< advaita, the same, shaivism the same, mayavadism the same etc.. >>

no. krishna does not say so.

the finalgoal is is same,

••the final goal is not the same, love for krsna, love for siva, merging in the oneness or annihilating our existence are not the same goal

 

hinduism is not a sectrian thing of only of india.

••so why not use the original denominations of the various schools (advaita, shaiva, vaishnava etc) instead of using the same name for opposite things? Especially in explaining the various messages to the new people it is only a great source of confusion.. in my opinion. And a religion, a dharma, has not the name of a nation.

 

if you do nothing on that line, then do not complain if you get bad political leaders and bad laws or legal system.

••my point is not to avoid politics, my point is not to push some vague idea of a coherent hindu religion for politic (useless) purpose

 

but never slader kshatriyas

••no one insult ksatryas.. it is an insult to use this saint definition to push a materialistic nationalism.. poors hindus against poor muslims, excited by politicians only interested in diverting the attention of people from their mistakes and rascaldom making the poor and cheated citizens to fight one against another.

 

yes. that is bhakti yoga. krishna says to fight also.

••krsna says that our business is to offer our karma and guna to him turning them in yoga... not to fight. Arjuna fights because he's a saint warrior in a saint war. This has nothing to do with all the kali yuga mess in india and everywhere

 

no. no. this view comes from the ignorance or lack of ksaatriya training/vision. even the terrorist have their propagandists to make the world think like you think. one who just chants or reads chaitanya charitamrita cannot understand this easily.

••different.. it is not that one who reads chaitanya charitamrita does not understand tha reasons of ksatryas. This because all class of men accept krsna consciousness and read gita and chaitanya c... The problem is that you identificate hindu fanaticism and nationalism agains muslims with some sort of new kuruksetra battle.. i simply see it as another kali yuga conflict. Not that i am undiscriminately non violent (i do not have a job or life of brahmin even if i am initiated, and his is the same for the 99% of gaudya vaishnavas. There's not shortage of policemen and soldiers in hare krishna, simply different opinions with you about nationalism and how to fight terrorism and if these thing are a real religious business)

 

HINDUISM IS A VERY NEW NAME OF SAHATANA DHARMA

••under hinduism you put many opposite dharmas or pseudo dharmas.. so you cannot call it or reunite it in only one dharma. Call it as you want, it is not a problem

 

even when i am not your guru, i have spoken the truth as i know

••the acceptance of the words of the guru is not against logic... if you say something that for me is right and logic i have not any difficulty to accept it

 

i think i have made myself clear enough. and have no desire to say the same over and over.

•••do as you like, no one force us to discuss