Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Phulgenda Sinha premised his book "The Gita as it Was" upon the thesis that the Gita and Upanishads were interpolated (had verses added) in order to subdue the people with an anti-materialistic nhilistic philosophy. Sinha shows historical proof of what the real Gita looks like after removing all of the verses added by Brahmins for the sake of the invading Aryans. Frawley's book refutes the Aryan invasion theory and so nullifies Sinha's thesis. However, I found Sinha's book most interesting and wonder if his thesis (that the Gita was interpolated by Brahmins) is true, even in light of this new negation of the AIT. Please excuse my ignorance here, for I am not Indian and know only what I read. Still, I am fascinated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Sounds interesting. Actually most of the Hindus ( Except the HKs) dont consider "Bhagwat Gita as it is " as an authentic translation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 I always thought of the "Gita As It Is" was a reply to the "Gita As It Was". The author of the "Gita As It Was", Mr. Sinha, explained that academics have reasons to protect their ideas, etc. You say that you want excerpts..hmmm...I don't know what to write. According to Sinha the Gita is based upon the Karika of Kapila. On page 130, Phulgenda writes: "The total number of versus of the original Gita is 84. The original begins with verse number 28 of the Bhagavadgita and ends with verse 43 in Chapter III. Thus, the content of the original Gita is found within the first three chapters of the extant Bhagavadgita. The remaining fifteen chapters (from Ch. IV to XVIII), containing 538 versus, have been interpolated". "There are 162 verses in the first three chapters of the Bhagavadgita, of which 78 verses are additions and only 84 are original. The sequence of the Gita is in the following order." (English translation). From there, Sinha lists the sequence as: Chapter I, 28-34, 37, 40, 46, and 47. Chapter II, 3, 11-31, 34-36, 39-41, 48, 50, 53, 56-58, 60, and 64-70. Sinha says: "Verse 39 explains the difference between Samkhya and Yoga. Upon hearing the inspiring reply of Krishna, Arjuna raises the question in two verses (Ch. III, 1-2) about the superiority of knowledge or action. In answering Arjuna's question, Krishna explains the paramount importance of action in life and the means of performing one's dut, acheiving social justice, and setting an honorable precedent. the teaching of Krishna is based on Samkhya and Yoga and takes up 31 verses of Ch. III, 3-9, 16-21, 23-29, 32-35, 38-40, and 42-43". I hope this is excerpt that you wanted. Here's a link to a book review from Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812690257/qid=1082412019/sr=8-4/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i4_xgl14/104-2481427-9535107?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 because when bhagavd gita says "bhagavan" you consider strange if it is translated "god" ask yourself why delhi airport is called delhi airport and not mumbai so let 's see this new gita.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Sorry, there was a typo error on my part. Ch. III includes verses 23-29. On page 133 of the book is a chart of the original verses: Ch. I 28-34,37,40, 46-47. Ch. II 3, 11-31, 34-36, 39-41, 48, 50, 53, 56-58, 60, 64-70. Ch. III 1-9, 16-21, 23-39, 32-35, 38-40, 42-43. All the rest are interpolated according to Sinha, and he gives historical proof. In the second part of the book, Sinha prints the Gita as it was, with only the 84 original verses, including his commentary. Sinha said that he would translate a Karika of Kapila, and I was disappointed that he never did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 ****"The total number of versus of the original Gita is 84. The original begins with verse number 28 of the Bhagavadgita and ends with verse 43 in Chapter III. Thus, the content of the original Gita is found within the first three chapters of the extant Bhagavadgita. The remaining fifteen chapters (from Ch. IV to XVIII), containing 538 versus, have been interpolated".***** I think this idea is reflected in the article on Gita by Swami Vivekananda. I am eager to get a copy of this book. If the arguements presented by the author are well researched upon, we should look for the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Yes. With the absence of the ancient scrpits, it is possible there might be interpolations, leave alone the interpretations based on ones own sect. Swami Vivekananda says Ramanuja has written his Bhashya based on Bodhayna, which is lost now. Actually, I think Sinhaji's arguement might be still valid even if the Aryan theory is false. Aryan Invasion theory is controversial on the migration of people and not the social structure. ( Correct me if I am wrong). So its immaterial is Brahminical dominance is inherent in Indian culture or becuase of Aryan Invasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 ******Sorry, there was a typo error on my part. Ch. III includes verses 23-29. On page 133 of the book is a chart of the original verses: Ch. I 28-34,37,40, 46-47. Ch. II 3, 11-31, 34-36, 39-41, 48, 50, 53, 56-58, 60, 64-70. Ch. III 1-9, 16-21, 23-39, 32-35, 38-40, 42-43. All the rest are interpolated according to Sinha, and he gives historical proof. In the second part of the book, Sinha prints the Gita as it was, with only the 84 original verses, including his commentary. Sinha said that he would translate a Karika of Kapila, and I was disappointed that he never did. ******* Is there any mention of who might have interpolated? Has he named anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 I'm afraid that I'm hesitant to say. The author writes that conquerors over the years in India have rewritten texts, for example: Arabs (Islam) and Aryans. He describes the history of some of these changes in detail. I don't remember the whole book and I certainly do not pretend to know. If interested please read the book because I am no authority on the subject at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 The author writes that conquerors over the years in India have rewritten texts, for example: Arabs (Islam) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 I wonder what the motive behind it is. Open your eyes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 no. useless thread. some have mean interest to totally shake off the base of hiduism-gita. perhaps most of the posts here are made by the same person or his gang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 You're right, this is a useless thread and I apologise. I will not post here again. The gita is really none of my business anyway, I was just totally fascinated by it (and lots of other Indian stuff like music, art, literature, cosmology, etc). Please forgive my ignorance, I will ask no further questions, and thanks to all for your kind responses. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 so read the islamic gita of pulgenda simha and you will be perfectly satisfied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Such a lengthy lecture in a battle field? Highly improbable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 probable things are boring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nine9 Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Krsna can thread an elephant through the eye of a needle... So, therefore he can speak for hours on the 18 chapters of the Gita in seemingly a few minutes. Therefore probability or possibility have nothing to do with it. See this battle through the eyes of scripture (sastra-caksuh) and see that Krsna's message is ultimately more important than the setting or form. -Rama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 << You're right, this is a useless thread and I apologise. I will not post here again. The gita is really none of my business anyway, I was just totally fascinated by it (and lots of other Indian stuff like music, art, literature, cosmology, etc). Please forgive my ignorance, I will ask no further questions, and thanks to all for your kind responses. >> the above shows your good quality. i wish you derive maximum benefit from living per gita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I think you must be imagining krishna explaining gita like ur professor used to explain lessons to you. All this would have happened in higher plane. krishna does not need words to convince arjuna. When minds talk there is no kala parimana for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 "I think you must be imagining krishna explaining gita like ur professor used to explain lessons to you. All this would have happened in higher plane. krishna does not need words to convince arjuna. When minds talk there is no kala parimana for that." Might be an existentional allegory. "To be, or not to be, that is the question. Whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or..." or to fight like Krishna to be authentic, to face the truth of self with clear unbiased understanding...could it be an allegory for the effort required of one who sets out on the path of yoga? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 bhagavad gita is to be studied... to make hypotesis will not help too much study it literally, practice it, it is not a matter of blind faith (on one side) or speculation (on the other side) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 I too found most interesting that book which, as everything, is fascinating, but has weaknesses. I am looking for that book in Montreal (The gita as it was); would anybody know where to find it ? Merci ! E.C. - aufinfond@.ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Actually most of the Hindus ( Except the HKs) dont consider "Bhagwat Gita as it is " as an authentic translation. Correction: Most of the Hindus (in other words, those who don't even know Sanskrit), don't consider it an authentic translation. Those who do know very well that BG As It Is is far more faithful a translation than most of the English ones out there today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 I believe the BG as it is , is one of the best translations you can find. If you believe otherwise then prove it and quote a verse with your own translation (or a translation u believe is more accurate). In BG as it is each sanskrit word is broken down into english so you can see for yourself. Instead of critisizing it, why don't you confirm its accuracy by using a sanskrit dictionary? -Amit Jai Sri Krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Most of the texts in all religions are not in original form as they were all written by the Priests class and rulers to suit their needs. The foundation of Hinduism is not any book but sages like Sri Ramana Maharshi who lived life of fully enlightened sage. The Upanishadic truth's have been confirmed by such sages. (Sri Ramana 1879-1950) Even if all the books of Hinduism are not in their original form, their content when confirmed by Sages like Sri Ramana have no need of any further proof. Sri Ramana was a sage not in any way less than Yadnyavalkya of Brihadaranyaka Upanishad or Sage Kapila of Samkhya Yoga or Sri Krishna of Bhagavad Gita or Sage Vyasa of Mahabharata. The first hand teachings of Sage Ramana are available in all book shops today. That is the TRUTH of Hinduism. It is an eternal relegion not dependant on books and faith but in enlightened sages who lived in all centuries from Sage Kapila Lord Buddha, till Sri Ramana (1950). till Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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