Origin Of The Soul

[Guest guest]

Where are we from? Are we fall down from spiritual world? WERE WE WITH KRSNA OR NOT ?Do the souls fall down from the Spiritual World due to their envy of the Lord ?

 

{PRABHUPADA: Whatever it may be, the falldown is there. So because we are living entities, we are not as powerful as Krsna, THEREFORE WE MAY FALL DOWN FROM VAIKUNTHA AT ANY MOMENT. ICCHA-DVESA SAMUTTHENA SARGE YANTI PARANTAPA. We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. FORMERLY WE WERE WITH KRSNA IN HIS LILA OR SPORT. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration, therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned}

[bHAKTIRAKSHAKA SRIDHAR DEV GOSWAMI:There are two classes of souls, jivas, who come into this world. One class comes from the spiritual Vaikuntha planets by the necessity of nitya-lila, the eternal pastimes of Krsna. Another comes by constitutional necessity. Goloka and Vaikuntha servitors are also seen to be within the jurisdiction of the brahmanda, the material universe, but that is only a play, 1i1a. They come from that higher plane only to take part in the Lord's pastimes and then return. The fallen souls come from the marginal position within the brahmajyoti" and not from Vaikuntha}

{SRILA BHAKTI BIBUDHA BODHAYAN MAHARAJ:The essence is that there are three types of jivas. Those that originate in Vraja manifests from Lord Baladeva. Those in the Vaikuntha planets manifests from Sankarsana. Those in the material world manifests from Maha-Vishnu. The first two types of jivas are nitya-mukta and the third type are nitya-baddha. The third type by the mercy of the Lord, can also become muktas if they take to devotional service. }

 

Who is righ ? What say about this Madhvacharya, Bhaktivinoda Thakura ...?

[Guest guest]

Iskcon is alone with their fall theory. It's not supported from sastra, rather refuted. And no Vaishnava sect Gaudiya or other agrees. Further, no other Hindu sect agrees.

[Guest guest]

also prabhupada speaks mostly of "NO FALL" like gaudya math..

 

(tatasta shakti)

[Guest guest]

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[Guest guest]

"also prabhupada speaks mostly of "NO FALL""

 

Not to pick on iskcon but, in spite of prabhupada's conclusion their position is still fall.

[Guest guest]

let us pray krsna that they will see the truth and follow the acharya

[maadhav]

what you mean by prabhupada=tatasta shakti ?

 

tatasta (correct word taTastha) means neutral.

shakti means energy.

 

 

[Guest guest]

i mean that prabhupada does not speak of fall from krsna lila but from tatasta shakti

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Hare Krsna,

 

All, its the same concluion, at the end of the day.

 

#1 We are fallen--Eternally Fallen

 

or

 

We can get out of Samasara {birth/death/old age/diseace}

 

How we got here is not an issue, how to get out is.

 

All The Archarya's from the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya agree with each other: Madhavacharya/Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

[Guest guest]

Three Classes Of Souls

 

According to Ramanuja, there are three classes of souls, viz., Nitya (eternal), Mukta (free) and Baddha (Bound). The eternal souls have never been in bondage. They are eternally free. They live with God in Vaikuntha. The freed souls were once subject to Samsara (samsara = life through repeated births and deaths; the process of worldly life), but have attained salvation now and live with God. The bound souls are caught up in the meshes of Samsara and are striving to be released. They wander from life to life till they are redeemed.

 

Man or the individual soul is a particle of which God is the whole. The individual soul is like a spark of that mass of fire. The whole pomegranate fruit represents the Brahman of Ramanuja, each seed corresponding to the individual soul.

 

The Evolution Of The Soul And Its Final Emancipation

 

When the individual soul is immersed in worldliness or Samsara, its knowledge is contracted. It gets its body according to its past Karma (actions), and goes from birth to death and from death to birth, till it attains Moksha or the final emancipation. When it attains Moksha, its knowledge expands. It knows everything. "Every action that contracts the heart of the soul is bad, and every action that expands the heart of the soul is good" – this is the statement of Ramanuja. The soul is marching on in this Samsara, expanding or contracting through its good and evil actions, till it attains the final emancipation through the grace of Lord Narayana. The grace descends on those souls who are pure and struggling for the divine grace.

 

Emancipation Or Passing Into Paradise

 

According to Ramanuja, Moksha means the soul’s passing from the troubles of mundane life into a kind of heaven or paradise (Vaikuntha) where it will remain forever in undisturbed personal bliss in the presence of God. The liberated soul attains to the nature of God. It never becomes identical with Him. It lives in fellowship with the Lord, either serving Him or meditating on Him. It never loses its individuality. There is no such thing as Jivan-mukti (liberated in this life, while yet living), according to Ramanuja. Salvation comes when the soul leaves the body.

 

[Guest guest]

One may now ask why does he forget his constitutional position? The potency of the Lord that enlightens us in the Lord's service is called chit-sakti. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura comments that when the living entity develops a spirit of independence he is forced to come to the material world, where he enters into various types of petty and undesirable behaviour that create a fearful situation. The bahiranga sakti, the illusory potency of the Supreme Lord, covers all trace of the chit sakti and imposes one material body after another upon the living entity for his gross sinful enjoyment. As further punishment, the living entity who has given up his loving relationship with Krishna loses all power to perceive the eternal, blissful form of the Supreme Lord, who is his actual shelter.

 

The living entity originally was in the service of Krishna; when he revolted against that constitutional position he was given this material existence. We say that they have been conditioned from time immemorial because no one can trace out when the living entity, the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, became rebellious against the supremacy of the Lord.

http://www.indiadivine.org/spirit-soul-origin1.htm

[Guest guest]

Brihadaranyak Up. 2.1.20

 

"As a spider moves along the thread (it produces), and as from a fire tiny sparks fly in all directions, so from this Self emanate all organs, all worlds, all gods and all beings. Its secret name (Upanishad) is ‘the Truth of Truth’. The vital force is truth, and It is the Truth of that"

 

Taittiriya Upanisad 2.6

 

"He wished to become many"

 

Gita 15.16

 

There are two classes of beings, the fallible and the infallible. In the material world every entity is fallible, and in the spiritual world every entity is called infallible.

 

In his comment on Bhagavad Gita 13.20 Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti says - mAyA jIvayor api macchaktitvena anAditvAt tayoH saMzleSo’py anAdir iti bhAvaH

 

"Illusion and the conditioned souls are both My energies. They are both beginningless and their interconnectedness is beginningless as well."

[Guest guest]

"when the living entity develops a spirit of independence he is forced to come to the material world"

 

 

This is xian philosophy, 'originl sin' and so on...