The Fraud God

[Guest guest]

These comments by Srila Prabhupada comes from the VedaBase CD-ROM and leaves no room for mental speculation and is direct and to the point. Srila Prabupada was an eminent scholar in the Vedic knowledge and knew all about the described signs of an avatara. He never accepted Sai Baba as anything other than a simple fraud.

 

Reporter (2): Your Divine Grace, this is actually not very relevant to the press conference, but have you ever met people like the Sai Baba or Bala Yogeshwara or...

 

Prabhupada: Why shall I meet these nonsense? Why shall I meet? What is the business? Fools and rascals may meet them. Why shall I meet? What can I get from them? What is their special value? Tell me, why shall I meet? What is the business I have got to meet him? You are suggesting?

Reporter (2): No, I mean...

Prabhupada: No, no, why shall I meet? Why you expect like that, I shall meet?

Reporter (3): He just wanted to know if you have ever met them. They are also...

Prabhupada: No, no. Why he is...? Why he is asking this? What business I have got to meet with them? What shall I get from them?

Reporter (2): Just to discuss metaphysics.

Prabhupada: Yes. If I am taking lesson from Krsna, why shall I take lesson from such bogus things?

Reporter (3): No, they have also been recognized...

Prabhupada: Who recognized? Who recognized?

Reporter (3): As exponent of Hindu thought and...

Prabhupada: No,no,whorecognized? First of all, who recognized?

Reporter (3): No, they too have a following in the West.

Prabhupada: That is the defect. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They vote. Just like in big democratic country like America they voted Nixon to become president, and when they found that "This man is a bogus," they again dragged him down. So this is going on. We vote somebody to the topmost position, and we see that he's a rascal. So therefore we do not advise. We say just take lesson from Krsna, who is recognized by everyone. That is our Krsna consciousness movement. We don't say, "Go to a bogus man and take instruction." We don't say.

 

Guest (7) (Indian man): Satya Sai Baba says...

Prabhupada: Satya Sai Baba is not authority.

Guest (7): No, no, I don't accept.

Prabhupada: Then why you quote him? We are not prepared to hear his words.

Guest (7): Kindly clear off my doubt.

Prabhupada: No... That is another thing.

Guest (7): All the miracles only just to increase confidence and...

Prabhupada: Why...? Magic is magic. That is another thing. That is not knowledge.

Guest (7): Suppose if I want to talk here Krsna consciousness among the masses...

Prabhupada: No, we have to push on Krsna consciousness according to the direction of Krsna, not by the ways and means by Sai Baba. That is foolishness.

Guest (7): Can I attain such magical powers?

Prabhupada: So why? What is the use? We are not using any magical powers.

Guest (7): Just to convince the people.

Prabhupada: Why this foolishness? We never... Ask my disciples. I have never shown any magic. Why?

Bhagavata: That is a cheap business.

Prabhupada: That is cheating business. That is not required. It is meant for the foolish men.

Guest (7): Suri Bhavantam is a scientist. He was convinced by him just because of his magical powers. Otherwise he could not influence me.

Prabhupada: No, these are words. He has been challenged also by a group of educated men. So there are some fools, rascals. That is all...

Prabhupada: Do you accept Sai Baba as God?

Guest (7): No, no, not at all.

Prabhupada: Then why do you speak all this? That's...

Guest (7): Not even greater than me. I don't think like that. He is also a human being like me.

Guest (6): In the Bhagavatam it is said that (quotes Sanskrit verse). (indistinct)

Guest (7): And he could not do his siddhi before (indistinct). If it is real siddhi he could have showed all his powers even before (indistinct).

 

Prabhupada: Go to the standard of knowledge. Bhagavad-gita is accepted by the the acaryas, Madhvacarya, Ramanujacarya, Visnusvami, Lord Caitanya. So take that standard. Why do you go to the rascals and fools? Unless you are rascal and fool, you cannot go to the rascal and fool. Why? You take. If you want to know God, take the standard knowledge which is accepted by the... Acaryopasanam. You take the knowledge through the acaryas. Why from a rascal? That is not knowledge. Krsna recommends how to take the knowledge. Eh? Amanitvam adambhitvam ahimsa ksantir arjavam acaryopasanam. Worship the acarya. Tad vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Just read this.

 

Devotee (3): Amanitvam adambhitvam...

Prabhupada: This is the process of knowledge. Amanitvam adambhitvam ahimsa ksantir arjavam acaryopasanam. Acaryam mam vijaniyat. If you go to acarya, then you'll know the knowledge. What is this, go to a magician, a rascal? Magician is authority? There are so many magicians. So one should go for God to a magician? Acaryopasanam. Go to acarya. That is recommended. Why should you go to the magician? That is your fault. You go to the wrong person, and you are cheated because you want to be cheated. You want to see magic; you don't want to see God. God is personally speaking, accepted God, not that by magical... And who can show greater magic than Krsna? Krsna, when He was seven years old, He lifted the Govardhana Hill. Can this rascal do that? Who can be greater magician than Krsna? So we shall go to the greatest magician. Why shall I go to a tiny magician? That is our misfortune. If you want to see magic, see the magic, what Krsna has done. This is our misfortune, that we go to a wrong person and misled.

 

If you want magician, see Krsna, how great magician He is. He married sixteen thousand wives. Is there any instance in the history of the world that one has sixteen thousand wives and maintaining each of them? And he expanded himself in sixteen thousand husbands. Not that one wife is waiting: "When sixteen thousand, after sixteen thousand nights, He would come here?" No. He is present everywhere. That is magic. Narada was surprised that "How Krsna is maintaining sixteen thousand wives?" He saw in each and every home sixteen thousand establishment and Krsna is present everywhere. So this is magic. Why don't you see Krsna's magic? Why you are so much allured by a tiny magician? That is your misfortune. Poor heart, poor magic. See the real magic. If you want to see magic, see the Krsna's magic. Krsna, when He was three months old, the Putana came to kill the child by poisoning but she was killed. So in this way, from the very beginning of Krsna's appearance, He's killing so many demons. So why don't you see this magic? If you want to see magic, see Krsna's magic. Why the poor magic? Krsna says, sarva-loka-mahesvaram: "I am the proprietor of all the lokas." And each loka... Suppose this loka, earthly planet. There are hundreds of gold mines. Why you are captivated with the chataka gold? Why don't you be captivated by the person who has millions of gold mines by His wish?

 

So we are poor; therefore we are captivated by poor magician. If we are intelligent, then we should be captivated by Krsna's magic. That is intelligence. But we are poor; we are captivated by poor magic. That's all. Don't be poor. Mudho nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam. Don't remain mudhas. Try to understand Krsna. Then your life will be successful. That is Krsna knowledge. Janma karma ca me divyam yo janati tattvatah. Anyone who understands Krsna's activities, then he becomes liberated. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti. Why don't you use your valuable time for understand Krsna? Why you are captured by the poor rascal magicians? That means we are unfortunate. If we become captivated by tiny magician, that means we are unfortunate. Be captivated by the magic Krsna has shown. That is the point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[barney]

I do no care what Srila Prabhupada thinks. He may be an eminent scholar who had interpreted the Gita in English for the western world to spread word of the holy Gita to the westerners and succeded in convincing the whites to accept Krishna as the Supreme God. Good for him and a great job well done but to pass remark on another soul is foolishness and stupid. Whether Sri Satya Sai Baba is a fraud or not is for the devotees to decide not Srila Prabhupada. Now it looks like he was jealous of Sri Satya Sai's popularity and the millions of devotess flocking to his ashram called Brindvanam. Baba is a great soul coz he has not spoken malicious words against any gurus. All he does is spread love and peace among devotees around the world. He too does service to mankind by providing free meals for the poor and runs college for needy children. If one reads the Gita than one will undrerstand the message of Krishna but there are those who had misinterpreted the verses to their own satisfaction.

 

If what Srila Prabhupada thinks Sri Satya Sai Baba is a fraud than I would say Jesus too was a fraud. Coz he too showed magical powers by curing the laper, blind and raising Lazarus from the dead. What do you call it than? All I can say is Srila Prabhupada was a jealous old man coz he was not reconized in India and so he had to go the US to get popularized. But I than him for convincing some of the white misfits to accept the holy Gita and sing Hari Krishna in the streets of America. I cannot accept him as a guru but only as one of the interpreters of the holy Gita.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Barney : I do no care what Srila Prabhupada thinks. He may be an eminent scholar who had interpreted the Gita in English for the western world to spread word of the holy Gita to the westerners and succeded in convincing the whites to accept Krishna as the Supreme God.

 

Gaura dasa : To refer to people not born in India as "whites" is the symptom of ignorant racism. Srila Prabhupada never interperted the Bhagavad gita, but rather, consulted the translations given by other pure acaryas before him. He didn't want another Ktichari Gita with everything thrown into the "Hindu" pot, but presented the Gita As It Is.

 

Barney : Good for him and a great job well done but to pass remark on another soul is foolishness and stupid.

 

Gaura dasa: If Sai Baba allows people to call him the Purna avatara, then he is agreeing to their blaspheming of Lord Krsna, and Srila Prabhupada is saving everyone from going to hell by exposing this cheating mentality. Call a thief a thief and a spade a spade.

 

Barney : Whether Sri Satya Sai Baba is a fraud or not is for the devotees to decide not Srila Prabhupada.

 

Gd : There has never been a devotee of Lord Krsna documented in history that has been empowerd as much as Srila Prabhupada has done to spread Krsna consciousness. If he decides that Sai Baba is misleading people, I have faith in Prabhupada's words and would be a fool to oppose him.

 

Barney : Now it looks like he was jealous of Sri Satya Sai's popularity and the millions of devotess flocking to his ashram called Brindvanam.

 

GD:Do you really think that if Prabhupada was jealous of Sai Baba's popularity, that he would criticise such a person, and lose so much "popularity" himself by doing so / Srila Prabhupada didn't give a damn about winning any popularity contest ! He only wanted to see His Lord, the real Sri Krsna glorified, and spoke out very vehemently against the bhogi yogis that are coming off the assembly lines of the mystic factories of India, and telling people that they are God. Only Lord Krsna and His pure devotee can deliver us.

 

When people were on a different fad a few years ago considering this fat boy "Guru Maharaji" to be God, Srila Prabhupada courageusly said "I am the kicking God, and I shall kick on his face with boot ! "

 

Barney : Baba is a great soul coz he has not spoken malicious words against any gurus.

 

Gd: One who is not following a bona-fide parampara (disciplic succession) must reamin politically correct, otherwise as soon as he speaks the truth, people will judge him to see if he is actually following. Prabhupada's words are not malicious. He loved everyone. Sometimes the loving father has to speak strongly to his misguided sons to keep them from driving off the cliff.

 

Barney : All he does is spread love and peace among devotees around the world.

 

GD: Love is for Lord Krsna, exclusively, and peace can only be had by acknoweldging that we all share one Father, Lord Krsna, that is what makes us brothers. Krsna also explains the Peace Formula in Bhagavad Gita chapter 5 verse 29 explaining that one can achieve pangs from the miseries of this material world only by accepting Lord Krsna as the Supreme Enjoyer, the Supreme Propreitor of all the planets and demigods, and the Supreme Friend of all living entities. If we preach anything less than this, then it is all mental speculation, and will never bring any lasting peace, individually ,or collectively.

 

Barney : He too does service to mankind by providing free meals for the poor and runs college for needy children.

 

GD: I appreciate that he offers free medical service,and I know people who have benifited from it, but being a nice phlanthropist is not on the same level as being a great acarya who teaches the actual way to get permanent freedom from all disease , old age birth and death.

 

If you feed people food that is not exclusively Krsna prasadam, then you are feeding them karma and sin, and helping the to prepare for another material birth . That is why Hare Krsna temple around the world regularly distribute millions of free plates of prasadam thruogh their Food For LIfe programs.

 

Barney : If one reads the Gita than one will undrerstand the message of Krishna but there are those who had misinterpreted the verses to their own satisfaction.

 

GD: That is very true. There are over 600 Bhagavad Gitas on the market today, and accept for Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad gita, or other commentaries by Gaudiya acaryas, none have made any devotees of Krsna, which is what the conclusion of the Gita is. Again, that is why one must see whether a Bhagavad gita is coming from a bona-fide guru, in a Vaisnava disciplic succesion.Otherwis it is not the Gita, but someones hallucinations, with the title Bhagavad gita on it, because it's the all time best -selling title.

 

Barney : If what Srila Prabhupada thinks Sri Satya Sai Baba is a fraud than I would say Jesus too was a fraud. Coz he too showed magical powers by curing the laper, blind and raising Lazarus from the dead. What do you call it than?

 

GD: Srila Prabhupada stated that showing mystic powers is only for less intelligent people who want something cheap. Prabhupada had all mystic powers, but he didnt show them, because he didnt want cheap followers. Jesus was preaching to less intelligent people, so he may have displayes some mystic power to gain their allegiance.But Jesus used his powers to bring people to Krsna, he never claimed to be Krsna, which is vastly different from your Sly Baba.

 

Barney :All I can say is Srila Prabhupada was a jealous old man coz he was not reconized in India and so he had to go the US to get popularized.

 

GD: You are a fool for making such a blasphemous remark. He wasn't recognized in India, because people in India have forgotten their own culture,as you are demonstrating, and prefer to watch magic shows put on by sly babas.

 

Barney : But I thank him for convincing some of the white misfits to accept the holy Gita and sing Hari Krishna in the streets of America. I cannot accept him as a guru but only as one of the interpreters of the holy Gita.

 

GD: Thank you for having one intelligent thing to say about Srila Prabhupada. Perhaps that will save you in the end, because Krsna never forgets when someone glorifies His pure devotee. He also never forgets when we blaspheme him either, as shown by Him sending His sudarsana chakra after Durvasa Muni for blaspheming Ambarisa Maharaja. Even Krsna could not save Durvasa, until he begged forgiveness from Ambarisa, who was so humble, that he thought himself to be the cause of all the problems. Again, Prabhupada never interperted the Gita. He would sit in his room at 1 AM every night, with several large sanskrit editions of the previous acaryas commentaries on the Gita, and synthesize them all for our benefit. His purports are all based on the previous great acaryas, like Srila Bhaktissidhanta, Baladeva Vidyabhusana, Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, etc.....Fools rush in , where angels dare to tread.

 

[Guest guest]

I cannot accept him as a guru but only as one of the interpreters of the holy Gita.

 

it is like to say "guru"

 

only a pure guru can interprete the holy gita..

[Guest guest]

Calling Rascals, Fools, etc?? What sort of language is that?

Where is the good old courtesy and respect to another human being?

 

First of all, your guru seems to avoid questions and answers questions in a roundabout way. How do you stand such a guy? He is like a arrogant driver on the road who cares nothing about the fellow road users and bulldozes all with his rashness.

 

Nowhere he has answered any questions convincingly.

 

And He has called everybody but himself as rascals. He is like a school bully who pulls the legs of the fellow kids just for the fun of it and not "following" him or accept is supremacy.

[barney]

A humble Guru would not use malicous words against others. His duty is to show the right path and advice, not call people by names such as rascals and fools. He did not display the role of a Guru. A humble Guru would be like Swami Ramakrishna, Saint Ramalingam, Swami Ragavendra and many others before them. Anyway, the crux of the matter here is we as human being has no right to pass judgment against others. It's God who would decide who is a true baktha and who is a pretender.

[Guest guest]

According to SP if people who do miracles are frauds, Sri Raghavendra is one of the greatest cheaters.So according to SP sri rayaru is a fool and a rascal.

 

Let rayaru forgive me for the last sentence

 

 

[Guest guest]

Barney : A humble Guru would not use malicous words against others.

 

Gaura dasa : Prabhupada said that humility means to be bold for Krsna, so Prabhupada is one of the rare persons who will speak out about some mystic yogi who claims to be God. That is the duty of the bona-fide spiriutal master. His guru Sril Bhaktissidhanta, would strike fear in the hearts of the Sankaracarya Mayavadis for polluting people with their illusion that we are all God, and that the goal is to merge with the Impersonal Brahman.Bhaktivinode Thakura, his father, as chief magistrate, even threw one bhogi yogi into jail for making such claims in Orissa a century ago,and dancing with other men's wives in "Rasa LIla", even though the envious yogi cursed his family to die, Bhaktivinode told his fearful wife, "It is better to die than to allow such madmen to misguide the poor ignorant masses of people".

 

Barney : His duty is to show the right path and advice, not call people by names such as rascals and fools.

 

Gaura dasa: He is showing it, in both a positive way in his books, and by pointing out who the frauds are, but you dont want to see it, so go on sentimentally worshiping the fools and rascals.

 

Barney : He did not display the role of a Guru. A humble Guru would be like Swami Ramakrishna,

 

Gaura dasa : A guru is Lord Krsna's representative. He teaches everyone to become a servant of Lord Krsna, and that is ONLY what Prabhupada does. In my articles like "Bhogi yogi Vivekananda" , I have pointed out the madness of Ramakrishna who claimed to have been Caitanya Mahaprabhu in a previous life, and similarly the madness spoken by Sai Baba claiming to be an incarnation of Lord Krsna, Rama, etc.....What will a goat not eat , or a madman not speak ?

 

Barney : Saint Ramalingam, Swami Ragavendra and many others before them. Anyway, the crux of the matter here is we as human being has no right to pass judgment against others. It's God who would decide who is a true baktha and who is a pretender.

 

Gaura dasa : As Prabhupada would say, I am not saying, Lord Krsna in the Bhagavad gita is saying. God, Krsna has already condemned these imposters like Ramakrishna and Sai Baba . Of course, they can always be redeemed if they take Krsna prasada and hear the chanting of the Holy Names of Krsna from His pure devotee. By the mercy of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, there is hope for us all !

[atanu]

From the usage of language no doubts remain as to who is what.

[Guest guest]

there is no doubt left at all

[Guest guest]

According to SP if people who do miracles are frauds

 

you're wrong.. krsna, chaitanya and many saints made many miracles, there's no possibility to be against

 

the miracles of these cheaters are frauds

 

(a vaishnava like you is criticizing a great vaishnava to defend such rascal sai baba?)

[Guest guest]

From the usage of language no doubts remain as to who is what.

 

you can have a better language.. but with this language you are unable to give any valid answer to gaura das

[Guest guest]

Iam not defending Saibaba, infact i dont have any inclination to him as well. In any case i felt addressing somebody as a rascal and fool from a person like SP didnt show him in good light.

 

 

[Guest guest]

What does being seen in "good light" mean? Does it mean allow imposters to roam around and not object? Does it mean allow injustice and ignorance to flourish? Maybe to you, but NOT to me. According to the Gita you must fight against these demonic forces, not be polite and smile at them. If someone came to rob you, would you try to be polite to them just so you would be seen in a "good light"? If someone tried to trick you, do you not have the courage to speak up against them? Either you have made an error of judgement or you are the essence of cowardice.

 

-Amit

[Guest guest]

See take this example

 

I can call Usama bin laden a f**** ( Sorry to use this word in this forum ) but Bush cannot call him directly ( but may be personally) becos of his status in the society.

 

SP can condemn saibaba but the language is what iam talking about ? Rascal & Fool are not the way for somebody of SP's calibre to use.

[Guest guest]

if you recognise that srila prabhupada has "caliber".. everything he says is right and "calibrated"

 

when saints like srila prabhupada have a behaviour that we do not understand it is us that we are wrong, not them

 

also consider all the behaviour of prabhupada, not the rare moments when he was chastising (a teacher has to chastize, to discriminate.. otherwise he cannot teach the right and the wrong to the disciples)

[Guest guest]

Sorry for the wrong use of words. I dont say SP has the calibre, i wanted to say he has some status in the society and he shld behave in way fit for it, instead of talking like a street urchin

[Guest guest]

The man was strong, NOT weak, its as simple as that. He didn't need to consult a group of PR experts before making a statement that was true and he was sprititually above any foolish idea of caliber or "good light" or whatever. The fact that he got so angry means there was a very good reason for it.

 

-Amit

[barney]

He is unable to clean his own house than why bother about others. Now that he is gone it is getting worse than before. So, to me he is not a saint but initiated by his master to spread the word of Gita to the western world. There is a criteria for becoming a saint and I do not think he qualifies for that. He could have convienced the westerners but not me.

[Guest guest]

I don't think one man can be accountable for the actions of millions of people. If this is so and if this is your criteria for a saint, than there has never existed a saint on this earth.

 

-Amit

[Guest guest]

i wanted to say he has some status in the society and he shld behave in way fit for it

 

again... if he has some status it is not up to you and me, that we have no status, to decide for his behaviour

 

please study prabhupada as a whole.. and deeply, then decide if his behaviour is good, we are not speaking of a cheap person that we can judge cheaply

[Guest guest]

He is unable to clean his own house than why bother about others.

..his house is sufficiently clean even there's spots... in comparison with you this house is shining

 

Now that he is gone it is getting worse than before

..why do not judge after having had some informations? hare krsna mantra is spreading all over the world.

 

So, to me he is not a saint but initiated by his master to spread the word of Gita to the western world

..again... this is a requirement of a saint. How you recognize a saint? from a sai baba like haircut?

 

There is a criteria for becoming a saint and I do not think he qualifies for that.

..what you think has zero importance... especially if you keep it for yourself

 

He could have convienced the westerners but not me.

..he have convinced huge quantity of westerners and indians, You mean nothing, so there's no loss in non convincing you. The other thing that you stupidly forget is that gaudya vaishnava sampradaya is not a new concocted thing (like saibaba, vivekananda and ramakrisna), it is in india from 1500 and it is connected with vaishnavism who is eternal... prabhupada simly applies the principles of vaishnavism on large scale. If you are against vaishnavism, you are against something between 80 and 90% of hindus in the world

 

please get some information before criticize

 

simply you have no possibility to defend sai baba, vivekananda and ramakrishna and you start blaspheming others. Before demonstrate that they are not a fraud, the fact that also others can be frauds does not make them less cheaters and rascals

[Guest guest]

Dear Amit,

 

Thank you very much for your reply. You have taken the words right out of my mouth , and have shown logically that we cannot remain sentimental when magicians and imposters try to masquerade as Krsna avataras.No wonder India has been conquered time and time again, when it's people are so out of touch with it's true heritage and Vaisnava culture. The imposters enforce disunity, even though millions may follow a path that leads to nowhere. At the same time Amit, I realize that it is completely futile to argue with people like Barney, and many others, because they do not accept the standard Vaisnava sampradaya lineage, and the more you argue with them, the more offences they make to Srila Prabhupada. So in effect , it seems we are just helping them to go to hell for this. Yet at the same time, do we not have a reposnsbility to speak up on behalf of Prabhupada ? My conclusion is that it seems best to ignore the antagonists,and atheists, and focus our attention on glorifying Srila Prabhupada, Lord Krsna and Lord Caitanya. For all the good that Satya Sai Baba does, he completely undermines himself when he allows others to call him an avatara, or declares it himself. It is a pity. How can there be" good light" when one is preaching the darkness of Mayavadi imersonalist philosophy ? Lord Caitanya said that we are doomed even to HEAR such poison ! The only light is the Brahmajyoti of Sri Krsna that they want to merge into, because they want to become Krsna instead of becoming his humble servant. Thank you very much again, for your intelligent and sane comments.

[Guest guest]

Im sorry to disappoint you Barney, but ISKCON is not getting worse than before, it's getting better all the time. I just spent a month in Sridhama Mayapura, and there was the incredible installation of the Sri Sri Panca Tattva Deities there of Lord Caitanya and His asscosiates. Tens of thousands of people came to celebrate this joyful occaision. We are cleaning house, but tthere are those who only look for any dirt remaining, and can't appreciate the cleaning that is being done. Some have the fly mentality, and look for the pus, and others like the honey bee, look for the nectar.You cannot understand what a saint is, because you don't accept what the previous acaryas have to say. I wish you all the best. May Srila Prabhupada please forgive you for the way you have minimized and balshpehmed him.

[atanu]

"you can have a better language.. but with this language you are unable to give any valid answer to gaura das"

 

 

Since you are the Judge. And may be you are GD himself.

 

The language is self evident and no other proof is required. . needs not be picked up and smelled.