The Song Celestial

[atanu]

Om Namah Sivayya

 

Below I have reproduced a few verses from the Song Celestial. The main theme which I wish readers will keep in mind is:

 

6.29 One who is thus integrated in yoga sees all with equal eye, seeing himself in all beings all beings in himself.

 

 

These verses are not for people who still have Karma pending. Such people are simply incapable of assimilating the import of the verses. Moreover, due to rampant ego, they will not submit to these commandments of the Lord. They will not accept that the Lord speaks about the highest abode of unmanifest Brahman, which is attainable through the path of Jnana and that a Jnani really becomes the Self, since He has no more small self left and sees every other being within himself.

 

But a few whose Karma quota is finishing may benefit.

 

2.20 That is not born, nor does it ever die; having been, does it ever cease to be. That unborn, eternal, abiding, primeval Being is not slain when the body is slain

 

2.24 Invulnerable He is, not to be burnt, not to be drenched or dried. He is eternal, all pervading, changeless, motionless, enduring

 

2.27 Know that which pervades all this to be indestructible. That immutable none can destroy

 

3.42 Mighty they say are the senses, mightier than these, the mind, mightier than that the intellect, but mightier still is He.

 

3.43 Thus knowing Him who is beyond the intellect, O mighty armed, control your self by the Self and slay the enemy in the form of desire, hard though it may be.

 

5.16 But in those whose unwisdom is destroyed by wisdom, that wisdom like the Sun, reveals the Supreme (Param)

 

6.29 One who is thus integrated in yoga sees all with equal eye, seeing himself in all beings all beings in himself.

 

7.17 The foremost of these is the wise one (jnani) who is ever steadfast and devoted to the One. Very dear am I to the Jnani and he to Me.

 

7.19 At the end of many births the wise comes to Me, realising that Vasudeva is all. Such great soul is very rare to find.

 

8.21 The Supreme state is called the Unmanifest Imperishable (avyato akshara). That is my highest abode. For those who attain it there is no return

 

9.22 To those, however, who dwell on Me in single minded worship I guarantee fulfillment of needs and security

 

10.10 To them ever steadfast in loving worship, I give the yoga of understanding by which they attain Me.

 

10.11 Out of compassion for them, I, dwelling in their heart, destroy the darkness born of ignorance with the effulgent light of knowledge.

 

10.20 I am the Self, O Gudakesa, dwelling in the hearts of all beings. I am the beginning and the middle and the end of all beings

 

13.33 Just as all pervading ether being subtle, is not affected, even so, the Self pervading the whole body is not tainted

 

15.5 The uneluded, those who are free from pride and ignorance, who have overcome the evil of attachment, who are ever devoted to the Self, who have turned away from desires and are entirely beyond the dualities of pleasure and pain, attain that imperishable state

 

15.6 Neither sun, nor moon, nor fire illumines this state on attaining which one does not return. And this is My supreme abode.

 

18.61 The Lord resides in the hearts of all, O Arjuna, revolving all creatures by prakriti as if mounted on a machine

 

18.62 Surrender unto Him with all your heart, O Bharata. Through His grace you will attain Supreme peace and the perennial abode.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unbiased readers may please judge the verse:

 

6.29 One who is thus integrated in yoga sees all with equal eye, seeing himself in all beings all beings in himself.

 

Does it not talk of oneness?

 

7.17 The foremost of these is the wise one (jnani) who is ever steadfast and devoted to the One. Very dear am I to the jnani and he to Me.

 

8.21 The Supreme state is called the Unmanifest Imperishable (avyato akshara). That is my highest abode. For those who attain it here is no return

 

15.6 Neither sun, nor moon, nor fire illumines this state on attaining which one does not return. And this is My supreme abode.

 

Bhagwan talks of both the paths. Of Bhakti and of Jnana. He himself says that the unmanifest imperishable state is the highest attainable from which there is no return. He repeats twice that this unmanifest state is His highest abode.

 

Bhagwan also says (at several places):

 

10.20 I am the Self, O Gudakesa, dwelling in the hearts of all beings. I am the beginning and the middle and the end of all beings

 

And He also says:

 

6.29 One who is thus integrated in yoga sees all with equal eye, seeing himself in all beings all beings in himself.

 

A perfect Jnani – who abides always in Self, attains the highest abode and becomes the Self. Or else, how can one see all beings within himself?

 

Please ponder friends, when does One see all beings within Oneself? If this is not the Viswarupa state then what it is?

 

Now read again:

 

9.22 To those, however, who dwell on Me in single minded worship I guarantee fulfillment of needs and security

 

10.10 To them ever steadfast in loving worship, I give the yoga of understanding by which they attain Me.

 

10.11 Out of compassion for them, I, dwelling in their heart, destroy the darkness born of ignorance with the effulgent light of knowledge.

 

and,

 

5.16 But in those whose unwisdom is destroyed by wisdom, that wisdom like the sun, reveals the Supreme (Param)

 

 

 

[atanu]

I wish devotees read this

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

There is no greater enemy to Vedas and Vedanta than the advaitis and their Shiva devotees.

 

Why, because they are themselves mislead and mislead others into darkness by misinterpreting Vedas and Gita.

 

Atanu is the greatest example of this.

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

 

6.29 One who is thus integrated in yoga sees all with equal eye, seeing himself in all beings all beings in himself.

 

 

Here Atanu like all advaita cheaters tactfully avoids the next verse where Lord Krishna makes HIS message crystal clear. Even the verse 29 is conveniently misinterpreted according to advaita theory.

 

TEXT 29

 

sarva-bhuta-stham atmanam

sarva-bhutani catmani

iksate yoga-yuktatma

sarvatra sama-darsanah

 

SYNONYMS

 

sarva-bhuta-stham--situated in all beings; atmanam--the Supersoul; sarva--all; bhutani--entities; ca--also; atmani--in the self; iksate--does see; yoga-yukta-atma--one who is dovetailed in Krsna consciousness; sarvatra--everywhere; sama-darsanah--seeing equally.

 

Because of perceiving the (same) Self (abiding) in all beings and all beings (abiding) in the (same) Self; a yogi, who is in union with the Self, sees everybeing with an equal eye. (See also 4.35) (6.29)

 

TEXT 30

 

yo mam pasyati sarvatra

sarvam ca mayi pasyati

tasyaham na pranasyami

sa ca me na pranasyati

 

SYNONYMS

 

yah--whoever; mam--Me; pasyati--sees; sarvatra--everywhere; sarvam--everything; ca--and; mayi--in Me; pasyati--he sees; tasya--his; aham--I; na--not; pranasyami--am lost; sah--he; ca--also; me--to Me; na--nor; pranasyati--is lost.

 

Those who see Me in everything and see everything in Me, are not separated from Me and I am not separated from them. (6.30)

 

 

These verses are not for people who still have Karma pending. Such people are simply incapable of assimilating the import of the verses. Moreover, due to rampant ego, they will not submit to these commandments of the Lord. They will not accept that the Lord speaks about the highest abode of unmanifest Brahman, which is attainable through the path of Jnana and that a Jnani really becomes the Self, since He has no more small self left and sees every other being within himself.

 

 

 

There is no greater ego than calling oneself as Brahman. This is what advaitists do. By your own words it becomes clear that advaitists need a lot of help.

[atanu]

"Those who see Me in everything and see everything in Me, are not separated from Me and I am not separated from them. (6.30)"

 

 

Yes, you people do our job easy. Krishna says: Those who see Me in everything and see everything in Me, are not separated from Me and I am not separated from them.

 

So, why you talk about separation.

 

 

 

[atanu]

"There is no greater ego than calling oneself as Brahman"

 

Raghu ji, I respect your erudition. But why do you repeat this. Whence has one claimed oneself as Brahman?

 

You know very well that till all traces of individual ego is removed, no one can attain God.

 

Calling oneself as Brahman is by one's mind. Till individual mind exists all affirmation of being Brahman will be fraud.

 

As Mano Nasha is the way so claiming something by Mind is the obstruction. So, I am also a Dasa.

 

 

I hope you will appreciate.

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

 

"Those who see Me in everything and see everything in Me, are not separated from Me and I am not separated from them. (6.30)"

 

 

Yes, you people do our job easy. Krishna says: Those who see Me in everything and see everything in Me, are not separated from Me and I am not separated from them.

 

So, why you talk about separation.

 

 

Lord Krishna said they are not separated from ME or vice versa. HE, the LORD, never says they become ME.

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

 

You know very well that till all traces of individual ego is removed, no one can attain God.

 

Calling oneself as Brahman is by one's mind. Till individual mind exists all affirmation of being Brahman will be fraud.

 

As Mano Nasha is the way so claiming something by Mind is the obstruction. So, I am also a Dasa.

 

 

Perhaps this is the only point where we will agree. EGO must be extinguished. However individual consciousness is eternal.

[Guest guest]

Those who see Me in everything and see everything in Me, are not separated from Me and I am not separated from them.

 

 

"are not separated from Me"

 

 

 

That is all.

 

 

One who merges in the silence ensuing after the OM -- knows.

 

The world disappears in HIm.

[Guest guest]

Or May be not.

 

Have you realised it yourself? I have not. There are sages on both sides. So, why argue on what I have my self not experienced yet.

 

 

Lord has kept open all paths and as per affinity and stage of one's mind one may pursue a path.

 

My Guru says: Do not speculate but see for yourself. And Guru is Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara.

 

Atanu

[Guest guest]

individuality is an eternal feature of the soul

 

so, in the union of krsna and the soul the seperation is kept

 

in love you must have two complete individuals, otherwise how can love flow?

 

the ultimate instruction of bhagavad gita.. is "leave all other dharmas and surrender to me...i will protect you"

 

there's two subject and actions.. the surrendered, the one who gives shelter and protects, the act of surrendering and protecting

 

this has nothing to do with merging

 

(guru is the representative of brahma, vishnu and siva.. not brahma, vishnu and siva)

[atanu]

The ultimate instruction ----

 

 

3.43 Thus knowing Him who is beyond the intellect, O mighty armed, control your self by the Self and slay the enemy in the form of desire, hard though it may be.

 

5.16 But in those whose unwisdom is destroyed by wisdom, that wisdom like the Sun, reveals the Supreme (Param)

 

6.29 One who is thus integrated in yoga sees all with equal eye, seeing himself in all beings all beings in himself.

 

7.17 The foremost of these is the wise one (jnani) who is ever steadfast and devoted to the One. Very dear am I to the Jnani and he to Me.

 

 

8.21 The Supreme state is called the Unmanifest Imperishable (avyato akshara). That is my highest abode. For those who attain it there is no return

 

9.22 To those, however, who dwell on Me in single minded worship I guarantee fulfillment of needs and security

 

10.10 To them ever steadfast in loving worship, I give the yoga of understanding by which they attain Me.

 

10.11 Out of compassion for them, I, dwelling in their heart, destroy the darkness born of ignorance with the effulgent light of knowledge.

 

 

 

Do not try befudge. Out of compassion He will dispel your darkness.

 

 

But He also guarantees

 

 

5.16 But in those whose unwisdom is destroyed by wisdom, that wisdom like the Sun, reveals the Supreme (Param)

 

6.29 One who is thus integrated in yoga sees all with equal eye, seeing himself in all beings all beings in himself.

 

 

And

 

8.21 The Supreme state is called the Unmanifest Imperishable (avyato akshara). That is my highest abode. For those who attain it there is no return

 

 

 

Atanu

 

 

PS: Now do not say that this wrong translation.

 

[Guest guest]

3.43 Thus knowing Him who is beyond the intellect, O mighty armed, control your self by the Self and slay the enemy in the form of desire, hard though it may be.

..who's that "him"?

-----

5.16 But in those whose unwisdom is destroyed by wisdom, that wisdom like the Sun, reveals the Supreme (Param)

..why are you translating "tat param" like it was an identity of the wise man? the correct translation is the consciousness or realization of the param (who's krsna)

----

6.29 One who is thus integrated in yoga sees all with equal eye, seeing himself in all beings all beings in himself.

A true yogi observes Me in all beings, and also sees every being in Me. Indeed, the self-realized man sees Me everywhere.

..where's the problem? nothing exist outside krsna.. so we are his parts and parcels and a true yogi recognises them

----

7.17 The foremost of these is the wise one (jnani) who is ever steadfast and devoted to the One. Very dear am I to the Jnani and he to Me.

..and who's this ONE?.. the jnani, the one (not that's oneness.. eka.. the only object of devotion, krsna), the devotion... two people and an action. No oneness

--

8.21 The Supreme state is called the Unmanifest Imperishable (avyato akshara). That is my highest abode. For those who attain it there is no return

..yes... krsna is not a material manifestation, he's imperishable. When vaikunta is reached there's no return

(That supreme abode is called unmanifested and infallible, and it is the supreme destination. When one goes there, he never comes back. That is My supreme abode. )

---

9.22 To those, however, who dwell on Me in single minded worship I guarantee fulfillment of needs and security

..again no oneness.. there's "those", "me", "worship", "fulfillment" , "guarantee"

( cintayantah--concentrating; mam--unto Me.... the root is CIT, consciousness, knowledge )

---

10.10 To them ever steadfast in loving worship, I give the yoga of understanding by which they attain Me.

...no merging.. it is an attainment trough the yoga: "them", "me", "understanding", "attain", "worship".. two subjects and many actions

-----

 

TEXT 66

 

sarva-dharman parityajya

mam ekam saranam vraja

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo

moksayisyami ma sucah

 

SYNONYMS

sarva-dharman--all varieties of religion; parityajya--abandoning; mam--unto Me; ekam--only; saranam--surrender; vraja--go; aham--I; tvam--you; sarva--all; papebhyah--from sinful reactions; moksayisyami--deliver; ma--not; sucah--worry.

 

TRANSLATION

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[atanu]

You have again started the commonly known technique of pushing in words that were not used.

 

 

Show where the word "merging" has been used by me in the thread.

 

You set up your own trap by being biased in advance and jumping to comment with that biased bent of mind.

 

 

You have only one agenda: the hierarchy.

[Guest guest]

and you have no answers.. who's obfuscated?

 

 

[atanu]

I will take your translations.

 

 

 

6.29 Because of perceiving the (same) Self (abiding) in all beings and all beings (abiding) in the (same) Self; a yogi, who is in union with the Self, sees every being with an equal eye.

 

 

 

6.30 Those who see Me in everything and see everything in Me, are not separated from Me

 

 

In 6.29, please note “Union with the soul” and in 6.30 please note: “Those who see Me in everything and see everything in Me, are not separated from Me”

 

 

 

That completes my objective.

 

 

Friends, please also note the following:

 

 

TEXT 29

 

sarva-bhuta-stham atmanam

sarva-bhutani catmani

iksate yoga-yuktatma

sarvatra sama-darsanah

 

SYNONYMS

 

sarva-bhuta-stham--situated in all beings; atmanam--the Supersoul; sarva--all; bhutani--entities; ca--also; atmani--in the self; iksate--does see; yoga-yukta-atma--one who is dovetailed in Krsna consciousness; sarvatra--everywhere; sama-darsanah--seeing equally. "

 

 

Friends please note how the word "yoga" is transformed to yukta-atma--one who is dovetailed in Krsna consciousness"

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

and what is the meaning of yoga?

 

union with absolute

 

who's the absolute?

 

krsna

 

so a yogi is one who wants to achieve krsna consciousness

..

..

obviously if your purpose is to twist bhagavad gita meanings to make it an impersonalist/mayavadi teaching the definition of yogi as krsna conscious is for you most disturbing

 

the purpose of bhagavad gita is to leave other duties and surrender to krsna.. it is clearly written

[Guest guest]

union with the soul means to recognizing that we are spiritual souls

 

to see krsna in everything means that in every being's heart there's paramatma and that everything is part an parcel of krsna

 

..

 

if there was complete identity between me and krsna i were not conditionated by maya, bhagavd gita is to be understood and studied honestly and faithfully

[atanu]

People are not so low that they will be obfuscated by you, however hard you try.

 

 

Show me the word merging in my thread. Instead you can see union in 6.29.

 

And I said that fulfills my objective.

 

 

[atanu]

My friend you say:

 

"obviously if your purpose is to twist bhagavad gita meanings to make it an impersonalist/mayavadi teaching the definition of yogi as krsna conscious is for you most disturbing"

 

Nothing is disturbing to me. I abide in the Self.

 

I have just pointed out a simple instance wherein a word which is not there in the original is inserted.

 

There is actually no problem in this provided devotees are mature. For example, Christ said: I am the Light, I am the Path. No one goes to Him unless through Me.

 

Now Christians do not believe that Hindus have Union with Him. Similarly, many junior devotees of Krishna believe that abidance in Self is Krishna conciosness only and there is no other way.

 

You can have similar arguments with Muslims.

 

Whereas Krishna did show all paths.

 

And Upanishads and Brahma Sutras have shown all paths before.

 

The strength of Sanatana Dharma is that all paths are well known and traversed.

[atanu]

"if there was complete identity between me and krsna i were not conditionated by maya, bhagavd gita is to be understood and studied honestly and faithfully "

 

What is the reason of the birth? Is it not conditioning by Maya. If one was not Maya deluded, one would always be in Heaven.

 

So, do not ever imagine that one can still be Maya conditioned if one desired union with Krishna. That will be the surest way to return soon.

 

Yes, I am trying to be honest. Why do you pre suppose that I am not honest and faithful?

[Guest guest]

So, do not ever imagine that one can still be Maya conditioned if one desired union with Krishna.

..desire is not the fulfillment of the desire, there's a gradual process... and it depends of what meaning you give o the word union. If it is a union of two distinct persons in a loving relationship it is the right way. If union is that krsna and who desires the union are the same person this is the greatest maya

 

I have just pointed out a simple instance wherein a word which is not there in the original is inserted.

..translations are made to well translate also the meaning.. so the translation si correct

 

Now Christians do not believe that Hindus have Union with Him.

..the impersonalist hundus who believe that they are god or that they will became god they're actually not united with anything divine. The ones who believe that god and them are distinct rearities and that they are servants of god, they're actually following also jesuschrist who came to bring the love for god

 

Similarly, many junior devotees of Krishna believe that abidance in Self is Krishna conciosness only

..the gita is clear.. krsna is the ultimate object of worship.. We can surely say that all krsna/vishnu personal tattvas are equal in offering ultimate realization and protection. Deva worshipping, brahman realization and mayavadism are conceptually different and do not give the same result as surrendering to the supreme personality of godhead

 

Nothing is disturbing to me. I abide in the Self.

..you are (a) self, not (the) Self...

 

[Guest guest]

 

Here Atanu like all advaita cheaters tactfully avoids the next verse where Lord Krishna makes HIS message crystal clear. Even the verse 29 is conveniently misinterpreted according to advaita theory.

 

 

Raghuraman, if you haven't figured it out yet, this is basically classic Advaita. They say they accept everything, but they do not accept Vishnu's exclusive supremacy. And if you question their misinterpretations, they will accuse you of being a "Hare Krishna follower."

 

They seem to be under the misconception that all Hindus to their views, and those who do not refuse to do so because they are "misled by Prabhupada" -- never mind that every other vedAnta tradition also holds to the view that Vishnu is Supreme, just as the "Hare Krishnas" do.

 

Most of these proponents of Advaita on this forum are Sanskrit illiterates who cannot read shAstra, do not hear shAstra in paramparA, and don't have a real clue as to what it says. As if that were not enough, they seem incapable of even digesting elementary logic; their arguments are full of non-sequiturs, and one is left with the feeling that the only thing they can accomplish is to make converts out of people who are foolish enough to fall for flowery words with no substance.

 

Raghu

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

“..the impersonalist hundus who believe that they are god or that they will became god”

 

 

This a wrong assumption which comes out of anger. No true Advaitin will claim with mind this. This aspect has been discussed above already.

 

 

 

 

 

 

“..the gita is clear.. krsna is the ultimate object of worship.. We can surely say that all krsna/vishnu personal tattvas are equal in offering ultimate realization and protection”

 

 

 

Chapter 15: The Supreme Lord said: They (or the wise) speak of the eternal Ashvattha tree having its origin above (in unmanifest Brahman) and its branches below (in the cosmos) whose leaves are the (Vedic) hymns. One who understands this is a knower of the Vedas. (15.01)

 

The branches (of this world tree of Maya) spread below and above (or all over the cosmos). The tree is nourished by the Gunas; sense pleasures are its sprouts; and its roots (of ego and desires) stretch below in the human world causing Karmic bondage. (15.02)

 

Neither its (real) form nor its beginning, neither its end nor its existence is perceptible here on the earth. Having cut these firm roots of the Ashvattha tree by the mighty ax of (Jnana and) Vairaagya or detachment; (15.03)

 

The goal (of nirvana) should be sought reaching which one does not come back; thus thinking: In that very primal spirit I take refuge from which this primal manifestation comes forth. (15.04)

 

Those who are free from pride and delusion, who have conquered the evil of attachment, who are constantly dwelling in the Supreme Self with all Kaama completely stilled, who are free from the dualities known as pleasure and pain; such undeluded persons reach the eternal goal. (15.05)

 

 

 

“..you are (a) self, not (the) Self...”

 

Yes. My “mind” is still rampant and I engage in arguments. But I abide in the Self trying to still my vasanas as a true follower of Bhagawan Krishna. (You yourself distinguished between attainment and desire.)

 

The goal (of nirvana) should be sought reaching which one does not come back; thus thinking: In that very primal spirit I take refuge from which this primal manifestation comes forth. (15.04)

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

No true Advaitin will claim with mind this.

--a-dvaita means no discrimination... all is one so there's no supreme and no subordinated

 

“..the gita is clear.. krsna is the ultimate object of worship.. We can surely say that all krsna/vishnu personal tattvas are equal in offering ultimate realization and protection”

(then your verses..)

--wich of your citations demonstrates that 18,66 is not the conclusion of the gita?

Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation

 

TEXT 66

 

sarva-dharman parityajya

mam ekam saranam vraja

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo

moksayisyami ma sucah

 

SYNONYMS

sarva-dharman--all varieties of religion; parityajya--abandoning; mam--unto Me; ekam--only; saranam--surrender; vraja--go; aham--I; tvam--you; sarva--all; papebhyah--from sinful reactions; moksayisyami--deliver; ma--not; sucah--worry.

 

TRANSLATION

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.

-----

 

Yes. My “mind” is still rampant and I engage in arguments.

---you are "a "self also if you do not engage and you sleep all day long. If you were The Self, the supreme, you were not illuded by maya

 

(You yourself distinguished between attainment and desire.)

––(of course.. there's time in the middle and god's mercy is required to reach the goal)