Lord Shiva Has 84% of Krsna's Qualities, Brahma 78%

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada : Lord Siva is also sometimes described as Bhagavan. Similarly, Lord Brahma, Narada, others are also sometimes described as Bhagavan. But real Bhagavan means Krsna. They are Bhagavan partially. All these things have been very much carefully analyzed by Srila Rupa Gosvami. He has analyzed in the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, which we have translated into English: Nectar of Devotion. He has analyzed that Krsna is cent percent Bhagavan. And Narayana is ninety-four percent Bhagavan. And Lord Siva is eighty-four percent Bhagavan. And all other living entities, all living entities, we are, we are minutely seventy-eight percent Bhagavan. That means when you come to the perfection of life, when you are actually in the spiritual stage, then you are..., you have got the qualities of Bhagavan in minute quantity, but not all the qualities -- eighty, seventy-eight percent. These have been very nicely analyzed in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. And the sastra says also: krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam there is a list of all the incarnations, that "Such and such incarnation appears for such and such particular activities." In that incarnation list there is name of Lord Ramacandra also, Lord Buddha also. Buddha's name is also there. But in the conclusive portion it is declared there: ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [sB 1.3.28]. In that list, the name of Lord Krsna, Lord Balarama is there also. But the conclusion is given by Vyasadeva that "Except Krsna, all others, they are plenary expansion of Krsna, or part of plenary expansion of Krsna." Amsa-kalah. Amsa means direct expansion. And kalah means expansion of the..., secondary expansions. So it is concluded there that ete camsa-kalah pumsah. All these incarnations, they are either amsa or kalah. But Krsna, the name Krsna, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam: He's the original Personality of Godhead, Krsna.

 

[atanu]

"Srila Prabhupada : Lord Siva is also sometimes described as Bhagavan. Similarly, Lord Brahma, Narada, others are also sometimes described as Bhagavan."

 

 

 

Rudra is the regulator. SP may go to ----.

 

 

 

Rudra is the soul of all Pasus – bulls, so He is Pasupati. So the Yajurveda says:

Yajur Veda: iv. 5. 9.

a ----------.

p Homage to you, sparkling hearts of the gods

Note: Rudra is the soul and Antaryami. All else are His splendours

iv. 4. 8.

(Thou I art) all overcoming through Agni; self-ruling through the sun; lord of strength through might; creator with the bull; bountiful through the sacrifice; heavenly through the sacrificial fee; slayer of enemies through rage; supporter of the body through kindliness; wealth through food; through the earth he hath won; (thou art) eater of food with verses; increased by the Vasat cry; protector of the body through the Saman; full of light with the Viraj; drinker of Soma through the holy power; with cows he supporteth the sacrifice; with lordly power men; with horse and car bearer of the bolt; lord with the seasons; enclosing with the year; unassailable through penance; the sun with bodies.

 

Note: The Creator with the Bull. All Gods are bulls in Rig Veda.

 

 

And Visnu is Him when brought down, as below:

Yajur Veda iv. 4. 9.

 

(Thou art) ---------- Visnu when being taken down; ---------- Vayu when covered up; the gazer on men when revealed; the food when it comes; the famed of the fathers; life when taken; the river when going to the final bath; the ocean when gone; the water when dipped; the heaven when arrived at completion.

 

 

Note: (Thou art) ---------- Visnu when being taken down;

 

And now learn that Indra is the Lord of Visnu like Adityas are the Lords of Maruts

Yajur Veda iv. 3. 9.

a Thou art the portion of Agni, the overlordship of consecration, the holy power saved, the threefold Stoma.

b Thou art the portion of Indra, the overlordship of Visnu, the lordly power saved, the fifteenfold Stoma.

------

g Thou art the portion of the Adityas, the overlordship of the Maruts, offspring saved, the twenty-fivefold Stoma.

 

Note: Indra is the overlord of Visnu and Agni is Visnu (when brought down)

iv. 2. 1.

a Thou art the step of Visnu, overcoming hostility, mount the Gayatri metre, step along the earth, excluded is he whom we hate. Thou art the step of Visnu, -------Thou art the step of Visnu, overcomer of the enemy, ------- Thou art the stop of Visnu [1], overcomer of the foe, -------------

 

Let us now see below what Rig Veda says.

 

Book 5 HYMN III. Agni.

 

1. THOU at thy birth art Varuna, O Agni; when thou art kindled thou becomest Mitra.

In thee, O Son of Strength, all Gods are centred. Indra art thou to man who brings oblation.

2 Aryaman art thou as regardeth maidens mysterious, is thy name, O Self-sustainer.

As a kind friend with streams of milk they balm thee what time thou makcst wife and lord one-minded.

3 The life forces deck their beauty for thy glory, yea, Rudra! for thy birth fair, brightly-coloured. That which was fixed as Visnu's loftiest station-therewith the secret of the Cows thou guardest.

 

 

Note: Agni is SON OF SHAKTI. Life forces take various glorious forms to reveal glory of Rudra, who is Visnu’s loftiest station. Later we will see that Indra also proceeds to Rudra’s abode on gaining the knowledge of Brahman (when Soma juices flow).

 

Also note: As a kind friend with streams of milk they balm thee what time thou makcst wife and lord one-minded.

 

 

Book 1 HYMN LXI Indra.

1 EVEN to him, swift, strong and high. exalted, I bring my song of praise as dainty viands, My thought to him resistless, praise-deserving, prayers offered most especially to Indra.

2 ----.

7 As soon as, at libations of his mother, great Visnu had drunk up the draught, he plundered. The dainty cakes, the cooked mess;

 

but One stronger transfixed the wild boar, shooting through the mountain.

8 ---------.

 

Note: Indra, compared to Visnu, is spoken of as the stronger one. Indra is intellectual power, whereas Visnu is Maya shakti. Rudra rules through both.

 

 

Book 1 HYMN CLXIV. Visvedevas.

1. --------

2 Seven to the one-wheeled chariot yoke the Courser; bearing seven names the single Courser draws it. Three-naved the wheel is, sound and undecaying, whereon are resting all these worlds of being.

-------

4 Who hath beheld him as he sprang to being, seen how the boneless One supports the bony? Where is the blood of earth, the life, the spirit? Who may approach the man who knows, to ask it?

 

10 ---

 

11 Formed with twelve spokes, by length of time, unweakened, rolls round the heaven this wheel of during Order. Herein established, joined in pairs together, seven hundred Sons and twenty stand, O Agni.

 

13 -------

 

16 They told me these were males, though truly females: he who hath eyes sees this, the blind discerns not. The son who is a sage hath comprehended: who knows this rightly is his father's father.

 

23 --------

 

30 That which hath breath and speed and life and motion lies firmly established in the midst of houses. Living, by offerings to the Dead he moveth Immortal One, the brother of the mortal.

 

---

 

32 He who hath made him cloth not comprehend him: from him who saw him surely is he hidden. He, yet enveloped in his Mother's bosom, source of much life, hath sunk into destruction.

 

33 -----------------

 

 

46 They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and heavenly nobly-winged Garutman.

To what is One, sages give many a title they call it Agni, Yama, Matarisvan.

 

47 -----

 

48 Twelve are the fellies, and the wheel is single; three are the naves. What man hath understood it?

 

 

Note: The wheel is single and the 12 spokes (fellies) are perceived as different aspects. To what is One, sages give many a title.

 

Note: Living, by offerings to the Dead he moveth, the Immortal One. If this is not Rudra then who else is He?

 

 

 

Book 6 HYMN XLIX. Visvedevas

 

10 Rudra by day, Rudra at night we honour with these our songs, the Universe's Father.

Him great and lofty, blissful, un-decaying let us call especially as the Sage impels us.

 

Note: Un-decaying, father of the universe, who is honored with these songs.

 

Book 8 HYMN XII. Indra.

 

14 Aditi also hath brought forth a hymn for Indra, Sovran Lord: The work of sacrifice for help is glorified.

 

27 When Visnu, through thine energy, strode wide those three great steps of his,

Then thy two beautiful Bay Steeds carried thee on.

28 ----------------------

 

Note: Visnu through Indra’s energy took wide strides and formed the quarters.

 

Book 8 HYMN XV. Indra.

1. SING forth to him whom many men invoke, to him whom many laud. Invite the powerful Indra with your songs of praise.

2 -----

9 Visnu, Varuna, Mitra sing thy praise: In thee the Maruts' company have great delight.

-------------

 

 

Note: Visnu sings Indra’s praise

 

Book 8 HYMN LXVI. Indra.

1. SCARCELY was Satakratu, born when of his Mother he inquired, Who are the mighty? Who are famed?

2----

 

5 Indra in groundless realms of space pierced the Gandharva through, that he Might make Brahmans' strength increase.

6 Down from the mountains Indra shot hither his well-directed shaft: He gained the ready brew of rice.

7 -------

10 All these things Visnu brought, the Lord of ample stride whom thou hadst sent-

A hundred buffaloes, a brew of rice and milk: and Indra, slew the ravening boar

11 Most deadly is thy bow, successful, fashioned well: good is thine arrow, decked with gold. Warlike and well equipped thine arms are which increase sweetness for him who drinks the sweet.

 

 

Note: The reference is to the universal archer who has deadly bow, and golden arrow and arms. If this is not Rudra then who else is He?

 

Book 10 HYMN I. Agni.

1.HIGH hath the Mighty risen before the dawning, and come to us with light from out the darkness.

--------

3 Here, being manifested, lofty Visnu, full wise, protects his own supreme station.

 

 

Note: Agni is Visnu’s manifestation. Elsewhere (in most other references), offerings are to Rudra. So, are Visnu and Rudra different?

 

Rudra as Sun is Savitar, who when brought down is Visnu. This is also clear in Yajurveda as below.

 

Book 10 HYMN XCII. Visvedevas.

1. I PRAISE your Charioteer of sacrifice, the Lord of men, Priest of the tribes, refulgent, Guest of night. Blazing amid dry plants, snatching amid the green, the Strong, the Holy Herald hath attained to heaven.

2 ----

9 With humble adoration show this day your song of praise to mighty Rudra, Ruler of the brave: With whom, the Eager Ones, going their ordered course, he comes from heaven Self-bright, auspicious, strong to guard.

 

10 For these have spread abroad the fame of human kind, the Bull Brhaspati and Soma's brotherhood. Atharvan first by sacrifices made men sure: through skill the Bhrgus were esteemed of all as Gods.

11 For these, the Earth and Heaven with their abundant seed, four-bodied Narasmsa, Yama, Aditi, God Tvastar Wealth-bestower, the Rbhuksanas, Rodasi, Maruts, Visnu, claim and merit praise.

---------

14 With hymns of praise we sing him who is throned as Lord over these fearless tribes, the Self-resplendent One. We praise Night's youthful Lord benevolent to men, the foeless One, the free, with all celestial Dames.

 

 

Note: All fame of humankind and all seeds of the Heaven (including Visnu) are His alone.

 

Note: With humble adoration show this day your song of praise to mighty Rudra, Ruler of the brave: With whom, the Eager Ones, going their ordered course, he comes from heaven Self-bright, auspicious, strong to guard. All songs eventually are for Him – ruler of the brave.

 

Book 10 HYMN CXTII. Indra.

1. THE Heavens and the Earth accordant with all Gods encouraged graciously that vigorous might of his. When he came showing forth his majesty and power, he drank of Soma juice and waxed exceeding strong.

2 This majesty of his Visnu extols and lauds, making the stalk that gives the meath flow forth with might

 

Note: Visnu extols and lauds majesty of Indra

 

 

Book 3 HYMN II. Agni.

1. To him, Vaisvanara, who strengthens Holy Law, to Agni we present our praise like oil made pure.

-----

5 For happiness, men, having trimmed the sacred grass, set Agni glorious for his strength before them here; yea, with raised ladles, him bright, dear to all the Gods, perfecting aims of works, Rudra of solemn rites.

 

 

Note: For happiness, men, having trimmed the sacred grass, set Agni glorious for his strength before them here; yea, with raised ladles, him bright, dear to all the Gods, perfecting aims of works, Rudra of solemn rites.

 

The aim of all karma kanda rites is Rudra.

 

 

Book 1 HYMN XXVII. Agni.

 

1 WITH worship will I glorify thee, Agni, like a long-tailed steed, Imperial Lord of sacred rites.

---------------.

10 Help, thou who knowest lauds, this work, this eulogy to Rudra, him Adorable in every house.

 

Note: Offerings to Agni are eulogy to Rudra, him Adorable in every house. All songs are eulogies to Rudra.

 

 

Book 1 HYMN LXXII. Agni.

1. THOUGH holding many gifts for men, he humbleth the higher powers of each wise ordainer. Agni is now the treasure-lord of treasures, for ever granting all immortal bounties.

2 The Gods infallible all searching found not him, the dear Babe who still is round about us. Worn weary, following his track, devoted, they reached the lovely highest home of Agni.

------

4 Making them known to spacious earth and heaven, the holy Ones revealed the powers of Rudra.

 

 

Note: He humbleth the higher powers of each wise ordainer. Searching for Him God’s reached the highest home of Agni and there holy Ones revealed the powers of Rudra.

 

 

Book 1 HYMN CI. Indra.

1. SING, with oblation, praise to him who maketh glad, who with Rjisvan drove the dusky brood away. Fain for help, him the strong whose right hand wields the bolt, him girt by Maruts we invoke to be our Friend.

-----

5 He who is Lord of the entire world that moves and breathes, who for the Brahman first before all found the Cows; Indra who cast the Dasyus down beneath his feet,-him girt by Maruts we invoke to be our Friend.

 

6 ------

7 Refulgent in the Rudras' region he proceeds, and with the Rudras through the wide space speeds the Dame

 

Note: Indra first came to know about Brahman. This is mentioned in Keno Upanishad where Parvati first reveals the secret of Brahman to Indra. It is Durga alone who can open the gates of knowledge.

 

Note: Indra remains refulgent in the Rudras' region, and with the Rudras through the wide space speeds the Dame

 

 

 

Book 4 HYMN III. Agni.

1. Assist you to win Rudra, Lord of worship, Priest of both worlds, effectual sacrificer,

Agni, invested with his golden colours, before the thunder strike and lay you senseless.

2 ------

6 What, when thou blazest on the lesser altars, what to the mighty Wind who comes to bless us, True, circumambient? what to Earth, O Agni, what wilt thou say to Rudra who destroys men?

7 How to great Pusan who promotes our welfare,- to honoured Rudra what, who gives oblations?

What sin of ours to the far-striding Visnu, what, Agni, wilt thou tell the Lofty Arrow.

 

 

Note: Agni is invested with His golden colours and Agni is the vehicle to reach offerings to Rudra – the Lord of worship.

 

Note: Visnu is the lofty arrow of Rudra. This is how Rudra gains strength and this is how He destroyed Tripura with Visnu ashtra.

 

 

Book 6 HYMN XLIX. Visvedevas.

-----

10 Rudra by day, Rudra at night we honour with these our songs, the Universe's Father.

Him great and lofty, blissful, un-decaying let us call especially as the Sage impels us.

 

 

Note: Rudra is the father of the Universe. At night, Soma is His form and in the day the Sun is His form. Sages and men pray to both.

 

 

 

Book 6 HYMN XIII. Indra.

1. INDRA, when Soma juices flow, makes his mind pure and meet for lauds.

He gains the power that brings success, for great is he.

2 In heaven's first region, in the seat of Gods, is he who brings success,

Most glorious, prompt to save, who wins the water-floods.

3 ---------

20 That mind of Rudra, fresh and strong, moves conscious in the ancient ways,

With reference whereto the wise have ordered this.

 

 

Note: Who is Indra? It is the mind, which itself forgets about Rudra. Parvati has to help the Mind. Indra becomes pure when Soma juices flow. And Siva is Somnath.

 

 

 

Book 10 HYMN II. Agni.

1. GLADDEN the yearning Gods, O thou Most Youthful: bring them, O Lord of Seasons, knowing seasons,

-----------.

6 Because the Father hath produced thee, Leader of all our solemn rites, their brilliant Banner:

So win by worship pleasant homes abounding in heroes, and rich food to nourish all men.

7 Thou whom the Heaven and Earth, thou whom the Waters, and Tvastar, maker of fair things, created,

Well knowing, all along the Fathers' pathway, shine with resplendent light, enkindled, Agni.

 

Note: Who is the Universe’s father, leader of solemn rites?

 

Book 10 HYMN LXXIII. Indra.

1. THOU wast born mighty for victorious valour, exulting, strongest, full of pride and courage.

There, even there, the Maruts strengthened Indra when. his most rapid Mother stirred the Hero.

-----

10 When others call him offspring of the Courser, my meaning is that Mighty Power produced him.

He came from Manyu and remained in houses: whence he hath sprung is known to Indra only.

---------

 

 

Note: Indra came from Manyu, another name of anger and Siva

 

 

HYMN LXXXII. Manyu.

1. HE who hath reverenced thee, Manyu, destructive bolt, breeds for himself forthwith all conquering energy.

Arya and Dasa will we conquer with thine aid, with thee the Conqueror, with conquest conquest-sped.

2 Manyu was Indra, yea, the God, was Manyu, Manyu was Hotar, Varuna, Jatavedas.

The tribes of human lineage worship Manyu. Accordant with thy fervour, Manyu, guard us.

3 -----

4 For thou art, Manyu, of surpassing vigour, fierce, queller of the foe, and self-existent,

Shared by all, victorious, subduer: vouchsafe to us superior strengith in battles.,

------

Note: Manyu is self existent and shared by all

 

Book 10 HYMN LXXXIV. Manyu.

1. BORNE on with thee, O Manyu girt by Maruts, let our brave men, impetuous, bursting forward, March on, like flames of fire in form, exulting, with pointed arrows, sharpening their weapons.

2 Flashing like fire, be thou, O conquering Manyu, invoked, O Victor, as our army's leader. Slay thou our foes, distribute their possessions: show forth thy vigour, scatter those who hate us.

3 --------

 

.

 

Who is preaching the world the wrong things?

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am interested to learn how the percentages were arrived at.

 

I will like to apply the method to calculate my percentage.

[Guest guest]

Shiva 84$

 

Brahma 78%

 

Ram Bhakt 45%

 

To Ram Bhakt's parents,

 

All glories to Srila Prabupada!

 

Your son has failed his Krishna Consciousness exams. I suggest you send him to study with Siva and Brahma, who have both got distinction. One more F grade, and your son is a gonner. Are we clear?

 

Regards,

Gaura Dasa

(Principal of International Krishna Consciousness School)

 

p.s.

We specialize in secular education.

 

p.p.s

We use a highly secular method to calculate grades.

[Guest guest]

Ram Bhakt

 

That was awesome , i was laughing like mad .

[Guest guest]

Since a living being can rise up to the level of Lord Brahma in this universe, who has the greatest percentage, that is your maximum potential for this lifetime.

[Guest guest]

Since this calculation was made by the most exalted of Lord caitanya's associate's, Srila Rupa Gosvami, it is not a laughing matter to make fun of a great acarya, and take his teachings cheaply. Srila Rupa Gosvami, an eternal associate of Lord Krsna, never taught secular education, to the contrary, he taught about the highest mellows of love of Krsna one can attain in this lifetime. Let's start working on the 78% percent potential we have , by reading books like Bhakti-rasamrta sindhu, then wasting our time in prajalpa (mundane gibberish).

[Guest guest]

GD did you make the grade or is your percentage too low to disclose?

 

Or is it 100%?

[aditya]

whole thing is pointless..it is not that iskcon went and measured the qualities of the gods...while contemplating on such stupid things they are gettin away from god....surely people are not goin to believe this unless they are fools...i dont think it is written in any scripture about the percentage of qualities....krishna is no doubt the supreme but so is shiva... krishna in the bhagavad gita states that he is supreme but the same krishna in mahabharata anushasana parva constucts the shiva sahastranama which is far superior to vishnu sahasranama..krishna highlights the supremacy of shiva to dharmaraja...even in padmapurana krishna states that the god who is to be worshipped is shiva...similarly shiva states that it is rama who is to be worshipped in the same purana...puranas and vedas are meant to increse the devotion of a particular sect but not to give rise to petty quarrels...newaz if any1 has read the tales of jagannath u will know that god assumes the form which the devotee likes...to a person who thot tht ganesha is the supreme jagannath appeared as ganapati and liberated him.. when ramanujachraya stressed on worshippin the lord according to scriptures n not allow sudras into the temple the lord appeared in his dream and threatened him....people are so ignorant that they are so busy contemplating on stupid things like supremecy of shiva n krishna that their own devotion goes down the drain...if a devotee is pure then he realizes that no god is independent of krishna and that shiva is krishna

[lovetruth]

Have faith in the Truth. For some, it is Krishna.... not the person... but that "something" which we refer as God. When we say Shiva also, it the same "Something" we refer. Telling Krishna/Shiva is better than the other is like saying "this fingers direction is right" and "that fingers direction is right"... when in reality... both are are directing to the same point.

 

Sanatana Dharma is awesome, because of this freedom. No matter how people try to destroy it, it will always emerge back in no time.......

[Jay92]

 

Yajurveda says:

Yajur Veda: iv. 5. 9.

etc etc...

 

You quote out of the Vedas which was compiled by Vyasdeva. And if you know the whole background, after he compiled the vedas and composed the Mahabharata, Vyas was still not satisfied with the work and so he was in distress, he thought he was missing something important. After Narad made him realise his mistake, He wrote "Srimad bhagvatam" which is all about the glories of Lord Krishna, and Srimad bhagwatam was written cuz Vyas knew that people in Kali Yuga are not that intelligent to understand the details of the vedic scriptures. so bhagwatam like vyas's commentary on his own work (which should obviously be better than any other persons commentary on his work . so i think bhagwatam is the ultimate scripture if u believe in all the Vedas.

 

Even if we ignore the above thing,your whole argument seems invalid(don't take it to heart tho' lol ) . All the time you talked about VISHNU and not KRISHNA, which is not the matter of discussion. And yes, there is a diff between Vishnu and Krishna. Vishnu is a plenary expansion of Krishna and not Krishna himself. I suppose you know that much after reading Rig Vedas and all that stuff.

 

Long posts doesnt mean your intelligent. respect those who preach true things. this is india! dont hate.

 

((correct me if m wrong))