To Prove a Avatar or Incarnation of God this verse is enough.

[Guest guest]

I am a devotee of Sri Mahavishnu. Sometimes, when I do see ISKCON members, I do feel they drive it like only Krishna is the supreme God. I feel confused as to when all the avatars are of Lord Mahavishnu, why do they try to promote only Lord Krishna, instead, why don't they promote and spread the word about Lord Mahavishnu ??

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None of the ISKCON members deny the existence of other incarnations of Vishnu. Every vaishnava has a right to worship to any incarnations of Vishnu. There is absolutely nothing wrong for ISKCON to promote or worship KRSNA's form in this context. If you say ISKCON is wrong to promote KRSNA, then you may also direct the same question to Lord Ram' devotees whom worship only the incarnation Ram only & chants Ram's name only.

ISKCON has a reason for promoting KRISHNA's form. Which is found in the vedic scriptures:-

 

Bhagavadgita:-

BG 11.50:

Sañjaya said to Dhṛtarāṣṭra: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, having spoken thus to Arjuna, displayed His real four-armed form and at last showed His two-armed form, thus encouraging the fearful Arjuna.

 

BG 11.51:

When Arjuna thus saw Kṛṣṇa in His original form, he said: O Janārdana, seeing this humanlike form, so very beautiful, I am now composed in mind, and I am restored to my original nature.

 

BG 11.52:

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, this form of Mine you are now seeing is very difficult to behold. Even the demigods are ever seeking the opportunity to see this form, which is so dear.

 

BG 11.53:

The form you are seeing with your transcendental eyes cannot be understood simply by studying the Vedas, nor by undergoing serious penances, nor by charity, nor by worship. It is not by these means that one can see Me as I am.

 

Kṛṣṇa's two-handed form is still more confidential. One may be able to see the universal form of Kṛṣṇa by adding a little tinge of devotional service to various activities like penances, Vedic study and philosophical speculation. It may be possible, but without a tinge of bhakti one cannot see; that has already been explained. Still, beyond that universal form, the form of Kṛṣṇa with two hands is still more difficult to see, even for demigods like Brahmā and Lord Śiva. They desire to see Him, and we have evidence in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that when He was supposed to be in the womb of His mother, Devakī, all the demigods from heaven came to see the marvel of Kṛṣṇa, and they offered nice prayers to the Lord, although He was not at that time visible to them. They waited to see Him. Kṛṣṇa in His two-armed form is actually desired to be seen by demigods like Brahmā and Śiva.

 

In Brahma Samhita:-

BS 5.1:

isvara parama krsnah sac cid ananda vigrahah anadir adir govindah sarva karana karanam:

Kṛṣṇa who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.

 

In this verse Lord Brahma sings that Krishna whom has 2 hands with a flute is the original form of GOD & cause of all causes. This form of Krishna is the cause of all other incarnations & expansions such as Narayana/Vishnu, Rama & etc. His form is eternal which means it is indestructible & always existing. This form of Krsna doesn't grow old or destroy like our human body.

 

Furthermore it is glorified in the vedic scriptures that the four hands form Narayana/Vishnu is an expansion of Lord Krishna. From that form of Lord Narayana/Vishnu all other gods such as Lord Brahma, Siva was created. You may read all these details of creation at http://brahmasamhita.com/5/en

 

Thank you,

santana

[Guest guest]

Show your true love for God by reciprocating with Barney and thanking him for his flowery-worded pseudo-philosphical, politically-correct whining.

 

Yes, the Vedas don't know God. THe Gita does not know God. Even Krishna does not know God. Well, he is God, but only if you are a crazy Hare Krishna. Otherwise he is not. So, who knows? Only Barney knows. So he tells us what to do.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Can any one tell me where is God at this very moment and in what form he is now? None, all they can say is he might be like this and that without any conclusive evidence. Hinduism says God is formless like the others but he can take a form when he feels the need. God is Omnipresent as the candle light that shines in all direction. So, to say God is only in Krishna's form is mere speculation.

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I'll tell u where God is now & in what form He is as. Read my quotes from the vedic scriptures & then u decide who is speculating wether us or urself.

 

In Brahma Samhita Lord Brahma glorifies Lord Krishna :-

Text 5.1:

Isvara paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda vigrahah anadir adir govindah sarva karana karanam

Translation:

Kṛṣṇa who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.

 

Lord Brahma glorifies Krishna as one without a second. Lord Brahma claims Krishna to be the cause of all causes & has no other origin. Which means no one has created Krishna but He is the source of all. Further in the next text Lord Brahma mentions the abode of God or Krishna a Goloka.

 

Text 5.2:

sahasra-patra-kamalam

gokulakhyam mahat padam

tat-karnikaram tad-dhama

tad-anantamsa-sambhavam

Translation:

The superexcellent station of Kṛṣṇa, which is known as Gokula, has thousands of petals and a corolla like that of a lotus sprouted from a part of His infinitary aspect, the whorl of the leaves being the actual abode of Kṛṣṇa.

 

The abode of Lord Krishna is mentioned here as Goloka planet which is situated above Vaikuntha planets. The description of planetary systems & different abodes of gods such as Lord Siva & durga is mentioned in srimadbhagavatam.

 

The abode of Lord Sri Kṛṣṇa is described in the Bhagavad-gita, Fifteenth Chapter, sixth verse:

na tad bhasayate suryo

na sasanko na pavakaḥ

yad gatva na nivartante

tad dhama paramam mama

Translation:

"That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this material world."

 

Lord Krishna mentions that whomever reaches His abode will never return this material world. Therefore He wants us to come back to Him not to stay here in this material world. This material world is like a prison for us to suffer for all over misbehavings. Lord Krishna didn't mention that His aboded is on planet earth compare to sai baba's so called abode.

 

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Which would you prefer one who is beside you, who can comfort you in time of distress or the one who is not present and whom you could not see in person? Sai devotees feel the comfort and the energy Sai Baba emits that comforts his devotees, something like an assurance that I'm here do not worry. God of course is all prevailing but you do not know where he is or when he is appearing. He could be anywhere in any form to test man's faith in him. He could appear as a hermit or a begger directly opposite you and you could be ignoring him for the state he is. And so you missed him this time and he may appear again as a stranger asking for direction and you fear coz he is a stranger and yet you missed him again. What does all tis mean? This what we call in Hinduism that God would test your faith in him and to see if your heart is clean. Just talking about the scriptures or mastering the Vedas is not important.

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It is not a matter 'which you would prefer between one whom present or not'. It is a question wether Sai Baba is God or not. God is present everywhere & we dun deny it but humans can't be God. Each time God incarnates the vedas has mentioned bout it. Each incarnations of Krishna has been mentioned & predicted in the vedas such as Rama, Budhha, & so on. Even the next incarnation to be taken Kalki avatar has been predicted in Sri Mad Bhagavatam with details of time, place & the parents He will born to. Even the arrival of messengers such as Jesus Christ & Muhammad has been mentioned in the Brahma Vaivarta Purana. This proves that these messengers are authorised & all these incarnations of God is true. Lord Krishna never acts contradicting with what He says in the vedas. Coz the vedas are words of Krishna. It manifested from His breath.

Sri Mad Bhagavatam has taught us that many bogus gurus will sprout out in this KaliYuga clouding people's mind. So it is very important to follow the instructions given in the vedas to identify who is God & who is not. But can u tell me where in the vedas did it mention bout Sai Baba being an incarnation of God?

Vedas mentions in further that GOD has 6 qualities & is identified thru these 6 qualities. Those are:-

 

1.All-Beauty

2.Full of Opulence

3.All-Fame

4.All-Knowledge

5.Renounciation

6.All power

 

God is known as All Beauty. If we read each incarnations of Krishna each avatar is mentioned with very attractive forms in different colours. If we compare Sai Baba he is disqualified in this 1st quality of God.

God is always full of opulence. We can see that Lakshmi (goddess of fortune) never leaves Vishnu anytime. Tirupathi is an example where lakshmi is residing for that temple is the world's richest temple. But God doesn't live on donations from people like most of people(who claims themselves to be God) do today. If a person claims himself God sure he can create a gold mine instead of little rings or watch. We have learned from the puranas that big yogis & sages can even create a planet like sage Visvamitra did.

Their powers are yoga siddhi power. But great sages like Visvamitra, Agastya didn't claim themself to be God but accepted Krishna/Vishnu to be the Supreme God. We shud not get fool by these miracles & accept one as God unless they're mentioned in scriptures. If you accept miracle to be God then you shud also accept David Copperfield whom has made the old lost ship in Bermuda Triangle appeared again in front of public. If you claim that God is here residing on this planet earth than there must not be any war among us but only peace. Why are there still many sufferings, war, sex violence all goin on this planet? During Treta Yuga Lord Rama was the King of this planet & His city Ayodhya was the administrating city of the world. In puranas & Ramayana it is mentioned that when Lord Rama was present the whole world was a heaven. The women had no labour pain during giving birth. People were so happy & they may leave their body at anytime as they wish.

Lord Krishna has given us the vedas, puranas & above all He gave Bhagavadgita for us to follow and come back to Him. Why dun't we juz follow the instructions in it but listening to bogus gurus? If we listen to bogus gurus then it means we're neglecting Krishna's teachings & don't u think it is a waste for Krishna to give those teachings to humankind? You did mention that God will test one's faith. You're rite bout it. Now i like to revert the same question back to u. God is still testing people's faith wether to believe His words or some bogus gurus. That is my reply.

 

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What is important is how much you know about God and his work and the millions of jivas around you. They are all interconnected in a way. It is not that easy to explain but you have to experience it.

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It is all explained in the vedas & BhagavadGita & you or anyone dun need to have difficulties in explaining it. We need to juz follow an authorised gurus instructions & follow it. The authorised gurus can be identified with which sampradaya they're link to.

 

It is also given in the Padma purana:

 

sampradaya-vihina ye mantras te nisphala mantah

atah kalau bhavisyanti chatvarah sampradayinah

sri-brahma-rudra-sanaka vaisnava ksiti pavana

chatvaras te kalau bhavya hy utkale purusottama

ramanujam-srihi-svichakre madhavacaryam-chaturmuhash

sri vishnuswamino-rudro nimbadityam chatuksanaha

The above verses explain that if one is not connected with a bonafide disciplic succession namely :

1. Sri Sampradaya

2. Brahma Sampradaya

3. Rudra Sampradaya

4. Kumara Sampradaya

whatever mantras he chants will not bring the desired result. Originally the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna delivered the message of Vedas to 4 authorities namely :

1. Goddess Laksmi (Sri Sampradaya)

2. Lord Brahma (Brahma Sampradaya)

3. Lord Siva (Rudra Sampradaya)

4. Kumaras whom are Sanatkumar, Sanatana, Sanaka & Sananda (Kumara Sampradaya)

and in Kali Yuga (present age) this message was carried by their successors whom are :

1. Ramanujacarya in Sri Sampradaya

2. Madhvacarya in Brahma Sampradaya

3. Vishnuswami in Rudra Sampradaya

4. Nimbarka Swami in Kumara Sampradaya.

 

For your information ISKCON is a connected to Brahma Sampradaya. The gurus in ISKCON are connected to the great spiritual masters whom descend from Lord Krishna > Lord Brahma > Narada Muni > Srila Vyasadeva > Madhvacarya & so on till AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada ki Jay!

The above mentioned sampradayas are the only authorised institutions in Kaliyuga for one to learn God from.

 

People sometimes may say it is difficult to explain juz to hide that they're lack of knowledge. If you say that we need experience God rather than following instructions given by an authorised guru than we can assume any form we like or feel is God. Maybe Bill Clinton & chant Om Clinton namo namaha. Please think.

 

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Just singing hare krishna alone would not get you a ticket to haven.

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Sorry to disappoint you but the vedas & great acaryas do mention that chanting Hare Krishna does give us a ticket to Goloka or Vaikuntha Loka(spiritual world) which is above the heaven which u mentioned. Here are the quotes from the puranas :-

 

In Padma Purana Lord Siva tells Mother Parvathi:-

rama rameti rameti rame rame manorame sahasra-namabhis tulyam rama-sama varanane

"I chant the holy name of Rama, Rama, Rama and thus enjoy this beautiftil sound. This holy name of Ramacandra is equal to one thousand holy names of Lord Visnu."

 

In Brahmanda Purana:-

sahasra-namam punyanam trir avrttya tu yat phalam ekavrttya tu krsnasya namaikam tat prayacchati

The name of Krsna is even more glorious: "The pious results derived from chanting the thousand names of Lord Visnu three times can be attained by only one repetition of the holy name of Krsna."

 

In Brhad Naradiya Purana:-

harer nama harer nama eva kevalam

kalau nasthi eva nasthi eva nasthi eva kathir anyathaha

In this age of quarrel & hypocrisy the only way of liberation is by chanting the holy names of Sri Hari. There is no other way, there is no other way, there is no other way.

 

In Kalisantarana Upanishad:-

hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare

hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare

ithi sathoshakam namanama kali kalmasya naasanam

nathaa baratharupya sarva vetheshu trishyethe

Translation:-

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare,

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

is the Mahamantra which contains 16 syllables of holy names which will destruct the influence in the age of Kali-yuga. This is the conclusions of all vedic scriptures.

 

In Agni Purana:-

hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare

rathanthi halaya vabi the krtartha na samshayaha

Translation:

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare - if one chants this transcendental holy names without unknowingly, they'll attain the supreme pleasure in their life. There is no doubt in this.

 

Caitanya Caritamrta [Verse 17.22 & 7.24]

kali kala nama rupe krsna avataranama haithe haya sarva nisdara;nama vishnu kali kale nahi aara tharmasarva mantra saara nama esatra mantra

Translation:

In this age of Kali-yuga Supreme Lord Krsna is present in His names. With chanting of His names the whole world will attain liberation. There is no other way in this age to attain liberation other than chanting the Mahamantra. The Mahamantra of Krsna is the essence of all mantras in the world. This is the conclusion of all spiritual books and vedas.

 

In SriMad Bhagavatam 12.3.52:-

krte yat tyayathe vishnum, tretayam yajato mahakai

dvapara pariccaryam, kalau tat hari kirtanat

Translation:-

In the age of Satya-yuga humans meditate upon Lord Vishnu to attain liberation; in the age of Treta-yuga humans does fire-sacrifice to Lord Vishnu to attain liberation; but to get the same benefits in the age of Dvapara-yuga by worshipping Lord Krsna will be attained in this age of Kali-yuga if just one does Hari-Nama-Sankirtana (which means chanting the holy names of Lord Krsna & that is the chanting of the Mahamantra)

 

Even Lord Siva Himself chants & glorifies the names of Ram. That is why we see his pictures in the form of meditation or holding beads. Coz he meditates upon Krsna.Further the vedas mentioned that Hare Krishna Mahamantra is the only way for one to get liberate from Kaliyuga. I provided the necessary quotes for our claims that Hare Krishna Mahamantra is the solution.

 

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The question is how much love and respect do you have for your fellow human beings and all other creatures of God's creation in this world. You can think of God in any form dictated in the scriptures and it does not matter coz he is all and one. It is said God is within you and your heart is the temple but do you behave as one? If God resides in you than you must love all as you love yourself. Sai Baba may or may not be an avatar but learn what he is preaching. He has not introduced any new doctorine or set of new laws for human beings. He is reviving the scriptures as what Jesus did. He says love is the only medicine that man needs to have peace in this world as he quotes from the Gita and Vedas. Can you condemn a man for such? I know what the Guadaya or Krishna followers think. They did that 2000 years ago when Buddha announced his mission. They condemn him and abused and punished his followers untill they were all driven out of the province as what the Jews did to Jesus and his folowers. I'm not propagating Sai mission here but merely pointng out the evil mind of people like the guest here. Sorry, I have nothing against you or anyone in this forum nor do I want to pick a fight here. I have not seen or spoken to Baba but have read his message to the world and heard close experience of his followers. How can I condemn a man for preaching love and God's mission on earth. Let him call himself to be incarnation of God so what, has he taken away your right to chose your diety or has he forced you to give up what you believe in? Neither of it and yet some of them here are angry and furious because he has a large following. Even some Vaishnavas think of him as Krishna incarnate and the Christians see in him the Jesus they have not seen before but the paintings of Leonardo Da Vince. I am a Hindu by birth and I believe God is Omnipresent and Omnipotent which is why I say he could take any form any time and we do not have the power to question his action. Just do not talk and debate about our scriptures but start with action. Show your true love for God by loving his creatures and showing passion towards the needy and sick irrespective of their status and religious belief. That's all I ask.

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I respect your opinion in not to invoke any fight or argument among us. But as Gaudiya Vaishnavas it is our duty to preach Krishna's message to the world especially to crush the mayavadi philosophy which claims 'we can be God'. The vedas mentions we're not God but servant of God. So we feel it is our duty to share & preach this unadulterated message of Lord Krishna to others. We dun mean to hurt anyone but to preach love of God. & we dun tolerate with speculations or false bogus philosophies bout God. Tht's the reason we need to be cut & dry to make others understand. Thank u. I hope we will learn more together.

[barney]

sanathana,

 

Sorry, I do not wish to continue in this thread as it takes very long time viewing the site so, I'll post it in a new thread.

[Guest guest]

The fact that you folks are asking questions about God and gurus show that you are seekers of the truth. Does it matter if plants yearn and grow toward the sunlight but do not understand sunlight. It is a natural law that they thus grow and thrive?

 

"If the right man uses the wrong path, it will work right but if the wrong man uses the right path, it will work wrongly", a saying from an ancient mystic.