Was Karna the greatest archer?

[ombakth]

There were great brahmins like Lokmanya Tilak who fought for the upliftment of Dalits and other low caste people. But Chankaya was the follower of Ajivika form of Hinduism which is different than modern days Brahminism etc.. There were priest in all tribes that were present and those who came to Ancient India but they were not today's Brahmin sect. Some of these Priest shared higher status some of them did not. Many of them were ascetics like Sadhus and Rishis who belong to any caste not just today's brahmin.

 

It was Bashing of those Brahmins who still consider that they belong to higher caste and others belong to lower ranks and to those Brahmins who discriminated.

 

All those Brahmins who teach equality and consider all people equal to themselves are considered to be great and who fought for India and devlopment of Dharmic religion.

 

Like Mangal Pandey, Balgangadhar Tilak, Gopal Krishna Gokhale, C. Rajagopalachari, Swami Sahajanand Saraswati, Basawon Singh (Sinha), Yogendra Shukla, and Sheel Bhadra Yajee, to name just a few, were at the forefront of the struggle for freedom.

 

Even Rabindranath Tagore was a brahmin but he never differentiated people on the basis of caste.

 

I respect these people but I don't respect those Brahmins who discriminate people of Dharmic religion and weaken the Dharmic religion.

 

I had clearly showed disrespect to Naxalite even if they belong to Dalit because they are weakening the brotherhood and unity of Dharmic religion at the same time I have shown disrespect to only those Brahmins who weakend the unity of Dharmic religion.

 

I want to ask a question to Guesttttt who consider everything to be Brahmin Bashing the question is that does Guesttttt discriminate among a Individual belonging to a Dharmic religion with another Individual belonging to a Dharmic religion whether he is a Brahmin or Dalit.

 

Can Mr. Guesttttt strongly point out among those practicing Brahmins who don't differentiate an Individual of Dharmic religion on the bases of Caste?

 

Can Mr. Guesttttt justify the act of Priest of temple in Orissa who cleaned the temple premises when all Dalits finished worshipping? When God is equal for everyone they why did the Priest disallowed Dalits from their rights?

 

History itself proved that many Brahmins discriminated people due to which today Dharmic religion is considered as number 3 with respect to Population. Christainity and Islam is Overtaking the Dharmic religion.

 

Whoever does not discriminated is a respectable person? But the person who differentiate even if he is a Brahmin or a Dalit is a fool like ShekChilli who cuts the same branch in which he is sitting.

 

Among the great Brahmin scholars and writers are Nobel laureates Rabindranath Tagore and V. S. Naipaul and others like Mahapandit Rahul Sankrityayan, Subramanya Bharathy, Ramdhari Singh 'Dinkar', Suryakant Tripathi Nirala. Great Brahmin scientists include Nobel Laureate Sir C.V.Raman and Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar, and great Brahmin mathematicians include Srinivasa Ramanujan and C. P. Ramanujam. Even today, many Brahmins hold top posts in administration, academia, business, army, Air Force, journalism, etc. Many Brahmin leaders like C. Rajagopalachari and Lokmanya Tilak fought for the uplifting of the socially repressed Dalits and for the equality of Dalits in society.

 

These Brahmins helped in uniting Ancient Indian Dharmic religion.

 

At the same time I respect Adivasi like

Bhagini Shabari, a Bhil woman that offered Shri Rama and Shri Laxmana her half eaten 'ber' when they were searching for Shri Sita in the forest.

 

If Sri Ram ate half eaten Ber of Shabari then why some Brahmins think great about themselves and discriminate people on the bases of caste due to which Dharmic religion became Weak.

 

There is no Brahmin who is as great as Lokmanya Tilak in Mordern History and there is no Dalit as great as Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar. There is a tradition in our Land since ancient times that we give respect to Knowlege and as these people were Knowledgeable they are respectable.

 

I has even objected wrong deeds of Dalit till then Mr. Guesttttt was enjoying but Mr. Guesttttt just objected when it was about Brahmin.

 

I respect Ancient Indian Dharmic religion and India. Whoever tries to break the unity of Ancient Indian Dharmic religion and India should be disrespected. I want that Ancient Dharmic religion of this land should be back in number one position than any other religion of this world.

 

Those Bahmins and Dalits who consider each other as brother and equal should be respected but those Brahmins and Dalits who consider each other as unequal should be given same treatment like what they give to each others.

 

You are sad about ego of Brahmins being hurted but you are not sad about the weakening of our Ancient Indian Dharmic culture. A person who converts to another religion not only converts to another religion but at the same times nuture hatred for the Ancient Indian Dharmic religion.

At the same time even Dalits should not blindly follow all the wrong information provided to them by some anti social elements like Naxalites. They should rather properly analyze our ancient Indian Dharmic culture. It was not just Dalits who were the ones who were deprived from ther rights. There are people belonging to Higher caste like Beeshma who were deprived from their rights for the sake of his low caste half brother. High caste Beeshma has to sacrifice his throne and marriage life for the sake of his Younger brother who belonged to low caste.

Instead of fighting among themselves both Brahmins and Dalits should unite. All sacred holy men of India should march into UP and Bihar to devlope and civilize the people over there. We are loosing our culture in these states. Uttar Bharat is the birth place of our Dharmic ancestor like Sri Ram, Sri Krishna, Mahaveer Vardhman and Gautam Buddha. It is the place where they lived, penanced and attained Moksha and today our Dharmic Land is spoiled by the Gun culture prevailing over there like Taliban. If our ascetics don't act in time and preach the message of eternal dharmic harmony in these regions then we will soon loose this land like how we lost the North Western Part of ancient Akanda Bharata. They should teach these people how to live in a civilized manner they should teach them how to read and write and develope oneself and in turn help in developing our country. They should help in stopping the Gun culture in these states once and for all. They should rebuild the world famous ancient Indian Dharmic university the Nalanda University. They should develop Ayurvedic cultivation and Yoga in full swing. Ayuved will become a golden hen for our ancient Indian Dharmic culture just like what Oil is for Arabs.

All these are inter related events, happening of one incident resulted into another incident. Karna sided with anti social element like Duryodhana it was not just his fault it was the fault of some unnecessary, irrelogical social customs being practized in those times.

Dalits should be invited into temples some of them should also be appointed as priest of the temples. Even the references and use of words like Brahmins, Dalits, Aryan and Dravidian should be banned so that no one in future tries to divide us on these issues. All of them should be considered as Indians and to be arrived from the heart of God. Only one word should be used that is Indian to Classify them. So that this time people like karna openly support Pandavas instead of Kauravas.

Reservations should be given on the bases of economical status of an individual and not on the bases of Caste, religion and race. So that all underpriviledge Dalits and Brahmins get equal oppertunity of the privileges at the same time only the one who is capable like Karna(Brahmin or Dalit) and who deserves will get his right share and serve our country along with Sri Krishna in the future Superpower Mahabharat of this world.

When Sri Krishna himself considered Karna to be the greatest warrior and archer then who are others to contradict Sri Krishna's words. Sri Krishna might have spoken these only after carefully thinking and analyzing. He will never speak any word without any strong reason and logical justification. I consider Sri Krishna was not only the good thinker of that era but also the first person who started a Democratic government in our Subcontinent in that era. He was the first person who started public sector Trade industries, there were many quotes of those time that many traders had invested into Sri Krishna's Ventures because of which they had to willingly or unwillingly pray for his victory and remain loyal towards him incase of any internal crises during the war otherwise they would have to loose their invested money if he looses in the war. He did not completely supported Caplitalist(right) and Communist(left) but a mixture of both called Democracy(centre). He appointed Pandavas at the borders of India in Hastinapur to defend foreign Invansion and appointed a Yadava member onto the throne of Indraprastha(Delhi) to maintain internal policies this resembles a pure today's Democratic principles. Sri Krishna was the Iron man of Ancient India. ........."For the People, By the People and Of the People."

 

Karna was the conqueror of ancient India who had merged foreing territories onto Greater India (Mahabharat which stretched from Greece to Tibet/Mongolia, Central Asia and today's Subcontinent - this was the reason why Yavanas(greeks) and other forienger participated in this war). Sri Krishna wanted Karna to side with him so that they can together spread Ancient Indian Dharmic culture into other foreign countries which only Karna was able of conquering because Sri Krishna very well knew that after this great war many people will seperate from the original Hastinapura kingdom and so it will be a bit difficult to re occupy the foreign territories without Karna. Sri Krishna even offered Karna to be the King of Pandavas if he sided with them but Karna sided with Duryodhana.

 

If Sri Krishna was present on the day when Karna was insulted by Pandavas then he would have never allowed Pandavas to insult Karna. Also, during the syamwara Sri Krishna just told Draupadi to stop Karna from hitting the arrow to the Fish's eye, he never told Draupadi to use those additional caste remarks which she gave of her own to Karna. She could have told Karna since he is participating on the behalf of Duryodhana hence he was not applicable for this contest because as per the rule of the contest the one who hits the eye of Fish has to marry Draupadhi but if Karna would have hit the eye of Fish then he would have married Draupadhi to Duryodhana and not himself but instead of that she remarked saying that he is not applicable for this contest because of Low caste origin.

 

You strongly objected when some of the policies of Brahmins were criticized why don't you object when people held Sri Krishna responsible for Mahabharat war. Don't you know that Sri Krishna tried all possible means to avoid the war he had even personally went and tried to make truce between both the parties.

Sri Krishna used to play with Gopis like a Kid and there was no affairs. Smt Radha was probably the wife of Sri Krishna from which his Nandvansh is continued because Sri Krishna is also considered as son of Nanda because of this curse for Yaduvansh will not be applicable for Nandvansh and so his descendants of Nandvansh continues.

It is well known that there were many enemies of Sri Krishna in those days so it is quiet possible that they might have spread derogatory information about Sri Krishna's Character due to jealously towards his fame and popularity so that people start disliking him. Sri Krishna was a Dharm Purush he cannot be a Casanova. Do you know what is the impact of these things people think that our Dharmic culture as adulterous. Why can’t Ayanaghosha, or Abhimanyu or Chandrasena the name of Smt Radha’s husband be another name of Sri Krishna himself? Some say that Smt Radha was older to Sri Krishna there can be possibility that villager might have told that "Radha Krishn sey baadi hai" this can also mean that Smt Radha might be belonging to richer family than Sri Krishna.’s foster father Nand.

 

Sri Krishna never disrespected any lady. How can Sri Krishna disrespect Ladies when he himself saved Draupadhi from being undress infront of entire court? He might have gauged some fool play by Shakuni due to which he might have given Draupadi a biggest Sari and might have asked her to wear it in a complicated manner rather than the normal way of wearing it so that it would take time to be undressed and the rapists does not understand from where and how it can be removed.

 

Why you do not object when people say that Sri Ram killed Bali Treacherously.

Sri Ram was a Maryada Pursuhottama meaning the was the Uttam Purusha who followed rules and regulations. There could be no Uttam Purusha in this world who follows his dharma like Sri Ram. He gave respect even for his enemies.

 

Shri Ram did not Killed Bali but he saved Sugreev

Shri Ram hit an arrow to Bali just when he was about to strangle Sugreev. Bali and Sugreev were fighting at that time Shri Ram remained quiet for long time. Shri Ram waited till Bali attempts to strangle Sugreev and that moment when he was about to do that Shri Ram shot an arrow at Bali to defend Sugreev. Hence Shri Ram shot an arrow to defend Sugreev and not to just kill Bali also they were at very far distance hence it is not possible to hit arrow just at the hand of Bali so that his grip loosen and Sugreev his freed from his clutches hence Shri Ram had to hit the arrow at Bali's back so that grip loosens. Also, as per the rules of Kshtriya one cannot defeat a retreating warrior or an enemy but in this case Bali was not at all retreating he had just faced his back towards Shri Ram hence Shri Ram had not broke any rules. First of all Shri Ram did not had any personal enmity with Bali hence there was no reason why Bali will fight with Shri Ram and if Bali does not fights with Shri Ram then Shri Ram would not be able to kill him. Also Shri Ram wanted to maintain the dignity of Bali because by killing Bali from behind Shri Ram proved that during the life time of Bali no one was able to defeat Bali face to face and hence Bali died like a warrior and also his pride was intact that no one was able to defeat him face to face. Hence this act is well justified.

 

How can Sri Ram Betray any one when he followed his one promise throughout his life that he will never have more than one wife and he followed his promise till he attained moksha.

Sri Ram was not responsible for abandoning Sita mata. She insisted in having the Golden Deer due to which he had to leave her alone. She even crossed the Lakshmanrekha. This incident shows that one who violates the law of Ram falls into trouble.

 

Why don’t you object when modern Buddhist say that Gautam Buddha and Jains say that Tirthankaras did not followed Dharmic tradition?

 

Mahaveera Vardhman and Gautam Buddha were not responsible for the decline of Vedas. They did not entire rejected Vedas they just have objected towards certain clauses like the caste system which will emerge into discrimination exactly like what is has become.

 

Nowhere Gautam Buddha and Mahaveera Vardhman had mentioned Jain Dharma and Buddha Dharma in their religious discourse. Sri Ram, Sri Krishna, Gautam Buddha and Mahaveera always indicated about Dharma that means all of them were talking about the same Dharma of ancient Indian culture and nothing new or nothing different.

 

Jina and Budh means the one who attained Gyan or Buddhi. So it was actually those 24 Tirthankaras who are Jains and 28 Buddhas as Boudh and not every one else who are following them because only those 24 Tirthankaras and 28 Buddhas have attained Kevalya and Nirvana(Ultimate Truth/Wisdom) and not all the followers of Buddhism and Jainism but still consider themselves to be a Jains and Buddhist just because they follow Tirthankaras and Buddha.

 

All Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism belong to ancient Indian Dharma and nothing else. Along with Outsiders like Muslims and Christians we ourselves are responsible for the weakening of our Ancient Indian Dharmic Culture because of some of our irrelevant customes and practices.

 

[rajag]

The story of Mahabharatha means very little if you analyse it just for the drama and its charecters.We should probably be look for the innner meaning.

 

rajag

[ombakth]

Karna deserves that position of Greatest Archer don't deprive from this position just because he sided with Duryodhana. Even Beeshma, Dronacharya and many other sided with Duryodhana but they were held with respect as the greatest warrior then why Karna is not liable for this position.

He just owed to defend Duryodhana like a Bodygaurd so for this he was Killed in the battlefield, I think this settles the scores of him to side with Duryodhana.

It should be noted that he did spared his Pandava brothers during the war. It should be also noted he inspite of being discriminated he did not kept hatred for Brahmins rather he answered all his critics by developing his skills and talent, so his story also teaches to some of the underprivileged or discriminated people that even if they are discriminated they should try to gain respect by developing themselves and not by nuturing hatred toward the higher caste because most of them were not even present when their ancestors were discriminated as most of them were clubbed into High caste structure much later.

Karna's story also teaches that if one should not side with bad people even if the bad people support them because ultimate result is that they will have to loose everything at end just like how Karna lost everything.

Karna could be a bad man just because he sided with Duryodhana but otherwise they were many good things about him for which he was appreciated even by Sri Krishna.

By giving his life he not only defended Duryodhana till death and hence fulfilled his oath that till he is alive no one can harm Duryodhana but at the same time indirectly he made it easy for the Pandavas to end their enemy because as per Karna’s oath the clause was that “Till Karna is alive he will not allow any body to harm Duryodhana” as per this clause any body can Kill Duryodhana after Karna’s death and also this clause does not says that he has to kill Duryodhana’s enemy. He was free to forgive Duryodhana’s enemies but he will not allow them to harm Duryodhana.

If Brahmins and Dalits unite this will slove many issues.

* This will unite our Dharmic culture.

* Will stop the discrimination of fresh lot of younger generations who loose their opportunity just because of reservations. Equal opportunity for both talents of Brahmins as well as Dalits.

* Even People of low caste will contribute to develop the Dharmic culture like they always did since ancient times for. e.g. Ved Vyas, Valmiki, Vidura etc..

* This will also help in controlling the anti social elements like Naxalite, Terrorists and seperatists. If Dalits are given equal oppertunity then very foundation of such Naxalite organization will be broken and peace will be restored.

If you want to remain united and save Brahmins for backlashes then this is the only way by uniting Brahmins and Dalits.

<FONT face="Times New Roman">Some priest they oppose people of low caste from entering into temples but they should not forget that along with stopping low caste people from visiting their beloved God they are at the same time restricting the God himself from meeting his people. People who have come with Bhakti Bhavana to see their God then why they are being debarred from worshipping their God in ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

If you restrict God from meeting his devotees then it is obvious that God himself well get agitated of this act. God is free to meet any one whether he is a Dalit or a Brahmin.

It is Irony that some Priest restricting dalits from entering into <st1:City><st1:place>Temple</st1:place></st1:City> but they don't stop Prostitute dancing and performing flesh shows in one of the <st1:place><ST1:PlaceType>Temple</ST1:PlaceType> of <ST1:PlaceName>Madhya Pradesh</ST1:PlaceName></st1:place>.

Every one can come into temple to pray. Even a Prostitute can come to pray but they should not be allowed to start their business in and around temple premises. Devotees go to temple to in Bhakti Bhavana and not to see the dance of any Ms Bhakti or Ms Bhavana. Such vulgarity should be condemed.

There should be limit for narrow mindedness at the same time there should be a limit for open mindedness.

Vulgar images should be scraped off from the temple walls of Kajhurao and instead of that story of Sri Ram, Sri Krishna, Mahaveera Vardhman and Gautam Buddha should carved onto the wall of those temples. When the Vulgar Images were carved onto the temple at that time all members of Ancient Indian Dharmic culture were not consulted. Also temple should be place of Dedication and Devotion towards God and not to any vulgar images.

Just like suppose if you go to buy vegetable you choose and select only the good vegetables from the lot in the same way retain the good part of our Ancient Indian Dharmic religion and add good parts from outsider and remove the corrupt part from our Ancient Indian Dharmic religion so that henceforth any Muslim or Christian does not get any point to pin point at us. Our Ancient Indian Dharmic culture should be always correct and true. Just like how you sweep dirt from your residence so that your house becomes clean in the same way sweep away corrupt practices so that our Ancient Indian Dharmic Religion becomes Pure. Inspite of breaking Janivar(thread) still Guru Nanak became one of the sacred ascetics of our Holy India. India is the God's own country you will not find any country in the world that has snow mountains, plateau, plains, forests, Deserts, Sea, Coastal area, beaches all in the same country whereas India has everything in it it is almost represent Earth. If Delhi is the capital of India then India is the Dharmic Capital of entire Plannet Earth, like there is Desert is most countries of Africa but there is no snow mountains in those countries(except in some African countries) similarly there is snow Mountains in some countries of Europe but no desert in those countries(except in some European countries). You will never see Tigers and Lions both in same country except in zoos but <st1:country-region><st1:place>India</st1:place></st1:country-region> is the only country where we have Gir Lions as well as Bengal Tigers both of whose Natural Habitat is India Itself.

The fact that Karna selected Shayla as his charioteer inspite of knowing that Shayla was Nakula and Sahadeva’s uncle and hence might try to help his nephews, shows that even internally Karna wanted that his Pandava brothers should be able to kill him easily. Karna made himself vulnerable for his brothers.

Take for e.g. in today’s generation if a Minister orders the Police to stop the protestors and in this scenario the protestor might be protesting of Justice or the protestor might be themselves corrupt people at the same time the Minister who order the Police to stop the protestors might a good Minister or corrupt Minister now in this scenario Police has to follow the orders of the Minister and stop the protestor this does not means in this scenario that it is Polices fault for acting against the Protestor, the same applies for Karna who fought against the enemies of Duryodhana now whether the enemies are good people or bad people it does not matter much of any soldier even in current scenario, Karna had to serve his master in the war just like how Beeshma served his kingdom in the war whether it is being ruled by a Good king or Bad king.

Sri Parashuram Kshetra was in present day Kerala so it is obvious that he was trained in Karali Payattu the Indian Martial arts from which all Chinese and Japanese Martial arts was invented. Sri Parashuram taught Karna this Martial Arts. This was the reason why Karna was the great warrior because he was capable of aiming with bow and arrow with different angles as well as he was capable of swinging Mace(Gadha weapon) just like a Sword.

 

Arjuna and Eklavya got their skills from Dronacharya who was trained by Sri Parashuram but Karna was directly trained by Sri Parashuram himself.

Everything was Historical but it became Mythological.

Mace(Gadha weapon) of Sri Hanuman was just like the so called Malab used in Desi Gym since Ancient times. Since Sri Hanuman was a Body builder he was capable of using this tools even as a weapon in battlefield.

The dress of Sri Hanuman could have been something that resemble like a Tail due to which people belonging to other clan of his era might be addressing it as a Tail. Take for e.g. in today’s generation when they see any common villager wearing a Dhoti they consider it to be awkward same may be the reaction for Sri Hanuman’s dress code by other members of different society. If you notice the dhoti of men and Kache dress of maharastrian village women and men you might find the end of the dress called dhoti or men/ Kache of maharastrian women which is stuffed at the back looks similar to a Tail, It could be possible that that the dress of Sri Hanuman was something like that.

The words Vishu and Shiva are from same origin. Consider Vish of Vishnu and Shiv of Shiva you will find that V I S H of Vish and S H I V of Shiv are same letters and if you try to prounce Vishnu like Vi + Sh and now Shiva like Sh + iV the appear to be same.

Mahabharat and Ramayana stories were real Historical events.

[ombakth]

Thanks for all Brahmins and Pandits of Tirupati. You are really genius you are helping in uniting all Hindus.

 

Brahmins and Dalits of Tirupati have united now let us see how a caliph or a pope dares to break our uniting.

 

Ancient Indian Dharmic religion is the great. Brahmins and Dalits are brothers both are great.

 

All together united Ancient Indian Dharmic religion are great.

 

I hope even preist of Orissa learn something from the Tirupathi Brahmins and even they help in uniting all Hindus, Jains, Buddhist and Sikhs.

 

Jai Sri Rama, Jai Sri Krishna, Jai Mahaveera Vardhman, Jai Gautam Buddha, Jai Guru Nanaka.

 

Good work Brahmins of Tirupati. You are great! Good work Dalits of Tirupati even you are great.

 

United Ancient Indian Dharmic religion Induism(People of Indigeneous culture Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism).

 

Few more thing about karna that will help in establishing Dharmic religion back even in Europe

 

"

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Some Europeans who have “Karna” included into their name say that their Karna family originated in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland

 

There are many people of European named as Karna. In <st1:country-region><st1:place>Finland</st1:place></st1:country-region>, <st1:country-region><st1:place>Denmark</st1:place></st1:country-region> and <st1:country-region><st1:place>Sweden</st1:place></st1:country-region>. Some of them even claim that Karna was the common name in earlier days. Whether they are descendants of Karna or not but still the name Karna was spread throughout the World. This can be the derivate of the Indian name Karna and no one else because he was the only world conqueror in the ancient times. This is was the reason why most of the nations participated in the Maha Bharata war the war of Greater Bharata which stretched from <st1:place>Europe</st1:place> to <st1:place>Asia</st1:place>.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark

Some references of usage of Name “Karna” in European countries.

http://www.princeton.edu/~sophia/karna/html/karna.html

http://www.karna.us/

Note that most of these countries are Nordic Countries. It could be possible that Karna might not be a blonde. He might just be fair skinned because there were instances that say that he shines like Sun. Or he might have married blondes of <st1:country-region><st1:place>Denmark</st1:place></st1:country-region>, <st1:country-region><st1:place>Sweden</st1:place></st1:country-region> and <st1:country-region><st1:place>Finland</st1:place></st1:country-region>.

As Karna was the ancestors of Huna and Khans, it might be possible that Nords of Sweden, <st1:country-region><st1:place>Denmark</st1:place></st1:country-region> and <st1:country-region><st1:place>Finland</st1:place></st1:country-region> may be indirect descendants of Karna because Swet Hunas were actually belonged to same group of Hunas of China.

It is very clear that Dhillons were the descendants of Karna. Dillons belonged to Jat clan and Jat clan DNA matches with the Goths and Jutes who belong to the Nord race.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhillon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jutes

Other Indian Tribe were Tarkhans (which is similar to Tartars, Turks and Khans).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarkhan_%28Punjab%29

Just like their ancestor Karna and Genghis Khan, even all Khans and Europeans should come back to Ancient Indian Dharmic religion and consider Mohammed as Mahamat Acharya and Jesus and Ishu Acharya just a teacher and not as creator of new religions because they did not teach any new religion they just migrated the Ideology and Principle of our Ancient Indian Dharmic religion to their respective Land. Even if people baptize to Christianity and Islam it is meaningless because even after baptizing they are indirectly following the Ancient Indian Dharmic culture in the disguise of Christianity and Islam, this is the reason why in our Land we are born into Ancient Indian Dharmic religion and we don’t have to get ourself Baptized. The child born to a Christian family and a Muslim family by default belongs to the ancient Indian Dharmic culture due to this later on they convert them to Christianity and Islam. Instead of converting to Christianity and Islam they should retain the Ancient Indian Dharmic religion.

Islam was capable of attracting many followers because they used to give them equal status irrespective of their race, caste, gender and background but as soon as they convert to Islam they teach them hatred against Non Muslim. When Mahamut Acharya himself spared his enemies then why are these Terrorists killing innocent peoples who have got nothing to do with Religious Politics. Muhammed either copied or taught the same Alakh Niranjan (Alakh means "that which is not seen" and niranjan means "without any stains.") as Allah U Akbar( God is Great). That is why Allah as per Alakh is not seen. As per Islam there are 100 name of God but only 99 names are just adjecive of God but last one is hidden which is the original name of God and that can be nothing else than Om. Hence Om is the real name of God and not Allah. The reason is that either Muhammad did not want to accept the fact that Om was the real god because then the existence of Islam will end or he himself did not knew the name of the God. Also, Muhammed was preached by Angel Gabriel and not the God himself. Only ancient Indian ascetics and Jesus used to speak to God directly.

http://www.albushra.org/varia/allah.htm

Just like how 99 names of Allah in Islam is considered as adjectives of the same God then why can’t Brahman(not Brahmin caste), Vishnu, Mahesh, Parmatama, Parameshwar, Parampitaha, Jina and Buddha is considered as the adjectives of the same God Ancient Indian Dharmic God that is <st1:place>Om.</st1:place> Each and every single thing in Islam was copied from Ancient Indian Dharmic culture. If there was no Ancient Indian Dharmic culture then it would have been very difficult for Muhammed and Jesus to spread the idea of Divine God to foreigners. Until and Unless they don’t get the final name of God their religion is incomplete and we the followers of Ancient Indian Dharmic religion knew the original name <st1:place>Om</st1:place>(Aum) of the creator who created entire Universe from whom Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh were created. Our Ancient Indian Dharmic religion is the complete religion.

Christianity was capable of attracting many followers because they used to say that their Lord sacrificed his life for humanity, he forgave even his killers that too Romans themselves but as soon as they convert to Christianity they teach them hatred against Non Christians like the Jews. It is a irony that Romans themselves killed Jesus and blamed Jews entirely for the Cruxification of Jesus. But still Christians feel that what Roman Church says that is all true.

Those who are Non Muslims and Non Christians directly belong to Ancient Indian Dharmic religion and those who are Muslims and Christians indirectly belong to Ancient Indian Dharmic Religion.

Both Brahmins and Dalits should work together for strengthening our Ancient Indian Dharmic culture. Whatever happened till now forget it and start a fresh? Give both Brahmin and Dalit an equal status and equal share in our Dharmic religion of this Land which was preserved by Sri Parashuram, Sri Ram, Sri Krishna, Mahavira Vardhman, Gautam Buddha, Dharmic Samrat Ashoka and Guru Nanak.

Break the Janivar like Guru Nanak and accept the Saffron(Unity of all Bhramins, Kshatriays, Vaishs, Dalits, Non-Muslims and Non-Christians).

Ancient Indian Dharmic religion knew about <st1:City><st1:place>Darwin</st1:place></st1:City>’s theory much before than <st1:City><st1:place>Darwin</st1:place></st1:City>.

It was always said that Life transformed from different living beings until it became human, we misinterpreted it as each and every single human spirit first takes birth in the form of a microorganism and then takes birth in the form of insect and then takes birth in the form of bird and then takes birth in the form of animals and later on takes birth in the form of Human. Actually, our Ancient Indian Dharmic religion was taking about entire Human being as one entity that entire Human beings collectively originated from microorganism and then insects and then bird and then animals and finally Humans. The life here was an entire entity of Living beings collectively and not just spirit of an Individual.

It is prophesied that Islam and Christianity will end and only Ancient Indian Dharmic religion will remain because just like <st1:place>Om</st1:place>(Aum) and universe it is neither created nor destroyed. "

[Guest guest]

 

Karna was son of the Sun God with powers given by Sun God no one could defeat him in battle. In short he has no death. Knowing this Krishna played his lila in stealing away his powers. Indra came in disguise to ask for his kavacha kudalam[golden armour attached to his skin at birth]. As Karna is a giver he did not say no to Indra who was in disguise but Karna was warned by his father the Sun God. He was asked not not use his bramastram on Arjuna, and his mother after discovering that Karna was her son begged him not to harm Arjuna. In the end when the chariot was stuck in the pit and Karna alone trying to bring it out Krishna took the opprotunity by asking Arjuna to strike his arrow on an unarmed Karna. Even towards the end Karna was still alive and Krishna went in disguise to ask for Karna's blood as dhanam which was very cruel and ill minded. So, in short it was a cunning plot orchstrated by Krishna to defeat Karna. There may be a moral to this story but it all comes down to cheat and win. That is the moral of Mahabaratha.

 

We seem to forget that following Dharma is the most supreme prowess a warrior can have. Karna was defeated by Arjuna at the battle of Virata, that war where Pita Maha Bhisma warned the army not to fight Arjuna as he has performed austerities and will be forbiddable in battle. Arjuna defeated them all: likes of Ashwathama, Drona, Karna, Bhishma...etc Abhimanyu also assailed Karna during the Chakarvayuh. And not to forget one important point during the Kurukshetra war, Karna was fresh in battle (coming on the 9-10th day at the fall of Bhishma), Arjuna was not. The Lord doesnt steal anyone's powers because everything is his. the Moral of the story is forget who is powerful and who is not, it doesnt matter, the person who is the devotee of Lord Krishna is always victorious and those who go against dharma, no matter who powerful they are, they will be luckless, be they be more powerful than Arjuna, it doesnt matter. Arjuna was an instrument of the Lords desire and the Lord's desire is the most powerful in any war.

[Guest guest]

Karna was Naraka in his previous life and he was so powerful that the Lord Himself had to descend to earth to kill him.

 

Krishna did say to Arjuna that they had to cheat because fighting such undefeatable warriors such as Bhishma, Karna and Drona, it would not be won fairly, Krishna did admit that. But deception was not only played by Krishna, we seem to forget that throughout Mahabharata Duryodhana and his group without any moral reason did on so many occasions, deceptively caused pain to the Pandavas. and the rules of war says that there is no adharma to use deception against a deceptive enemy. Krishna in this way chose the art of deception at the right time. And we cannot label Krishna has a bad character, everything in relation to Him, His character, His personality etc are all on the absolute platform that is...its beyond our perception of what is right and what is wrong. Regarding the blood incident. Bhagwad Geeta already says that the soul is eternal, if we percieve this correctly we see that all this enacted to help us learn that nothing goes with those who goes against the will of the Lord.

[vamsimajeti]

arjuna is no doubt greatest archer because he alone did not retreat from battle field karna retreated many times form arjuna in battle field

karna was even not able to defeat bheema and fled from him many times in

battle field and he defeated bheema by deciet karna even killed abhimanyu by deceit i agree that karna was generous but not a great warrior than Arjuna Arjuna is the Peerless Archer in Mahabharata.Arjuna,Drona,Bhishma are greatest warriors of mahabharata

there is no instance in mahabharata where arjuna was afraid of karna Arjuna singlehandedly defeated devas,gandharvas and nivathakavachas.he even fought with shiva and Lord Shiva himself said that

there was none equal to him.when jayadratha sought boon from lord Shiva

that he should defeat pandavas the lord shiva said that he himself is incapable of defeating arjuna then how can he give him the boon.

and some people have said that karna was asked by kunti not to use nagastra twice that is not true arjuna had greatest astra pashupata

but he did not rely on it for vistory he could have used it but he did not use it because he wanted to win victory by power of his arms but karna relied on shakti astra to kill arjuna

and again he used nagastra when he was not able to defeat arjuna by any astra or arrows.Karna was always jealous of arjuna

though he knew arjuna was his brotherhe still hated him and wanted to kill

him

some are saying that kuru army was not prepared to fight with arjuna at viratnagara so they lost this is not true they have come well

prepared and karna tried to defeat arjuna but he ran away from arjuna twice in battlefield and arjuna defeated all of them

Arjuna is Greatest warrior

Jai Arjuna Jai Krishna

[vamsimajeti]

 

Also, Karna did not kept hatred in his heart against the high caste people. Even if a Brahmin came to Karna he treated with respect to that Brahmin and also donated to that Brahmin. Because he knew that some individuals of some section of society might have treated him with disrespect but everyone did not treat him with disrespect the why should he hate everyone. He knew that each one is responsible for his/her deed, entire society is not supposed to be blamed for the deeds of few Individual. He agreed that few people insulted him but he also agrees that there were many who did not knew him at all that means everyone did not insult him then why should he keep hatred against each and every single individual to whichever caste they belongs.

 

Karna proved that even a person from low origin can gain high status by hardwork and determination. Hence keeping hatred towards others is of no use rather than wasting time and effort in hating others they should contribute their time and effort in developing themselves. Karna conquered many countries and merged it with India making it Akanda Bharat instead of splitting it.

 

Karna's life is a teaching for those Naxalite and Terrorist, that one should not keep hatred. A person can attain high status with his deeds and hardwork hence instead of hating other section of the society they can develop themselves by hardwork and determination and help in strengthening the country.

 

Instead of dividing the country they should help in strengthening the country.

 

I am proud of Sri Krishna and Karna because at first place they themselves were Indians and on the other hand they helped in Strengthening India. Sri Krishna strengthened India by uniting all tribes inhabitating in India whereas Karna strengthened India by conquering other Lands and merging it with India hence both tried in making it Maha Bharat(Greater India).

 

Sri Krishna and Karna inspite of being a Prince they lead a humble childhood so it is obvious that what ever they acheived in their lifetime was by their hardwork and determination. Their story teaches that with Hardwork, Determination and Sincerity towards his/her work one can become big.

 

Even in the dice game Karna was not aware that Duryodhana and Shakuni will do cheating to win the match. Most of the secrets and plan that Shakuni told to Duryodhana was never revealed in detail to Karna because Duryodhana knew that Karna's rules and regulations(Adarsh and Osul) will not allow Karna to support such evil plan. Hence Duryodhana used to hide most of the modlus operandi of their plan from Karna.

 

There was one incident where when Karna and Duryodhana's wife were playing dice at that time Duryodhana's wife's part of a dress came down but Karna still did not looked at her with bad intentions. Later on when Duryodhana noticed it he quietly came and made his wife's dress proper and did not questioned Karna because he trusted Karna's character and loyalty towards Duryodhana.

 

During the dice Match Karna did insult Draupadhi but he never tried to undress her, the reason was that he returned her back those caste comments which she had made on him during her Swyamwar. Whoever it is whether a man or a women they should not take the liberty of their gender as granted, they should watch before passing such comments on others phsyical apperances(handicap or ugly), caste, race, way of worship and economical condition because this might hurt ones sentiments. The verbal abuses which she gave to him at that time he returned it back verbally to her but he did not raised his hands on her, he did not tried to rape her, he did not did not returned it back with violence. Verbal abuses returned with verbal abuses and not with phsyical abuse. Thing which is wrong is wrong whoever does it.

 

Also, on top of this Sri Krishna himself quoted that "Karna was the great warrior than Arjuna" then I definitely believe in what Sri Krishna said because Sri Krishna never told anything without any reason.

arjuna is no doubt greatest archer because he alone did not retreat from battle field karna retreated many times form arjuna in battle field

karna was even not able to defeat bheema and fled from him many times in

battle field and he defeated bheema by deciet karna even killed abhimanyu by deceit i agree that karna was generous but not a great warrior than Arjuna Arjuna is the Peerless Archer in Mahabharata.Arjuna,Drona,Bhishma are greatest warriors of mahabharata

there is no instance in mahabharata where arjuna was afraid of karna Arjuna singlehandedly defeated devas,gandharvas and nivathakavachas.he even fought with shiva and Lord Shiva himself said that

there was none equal to him.when jayadratha sought boon from lord Shiva

that he should defeat pandavas the lord shiva said that he himself is incapable of defeating arjuna then how can he give him the boon.

and some people have said that karna was asked by kunti not to use nagastra twice that is not true arjuna had greatest astra pashupata

but he did not rely on it for vistory he could have used it but he did not use it because he wanted to win victory by power of his arms but karna relied on shakti astra to kill arjuna

and again he used nagastra when he was not able to defeat arjuna by any astra or arrows.Karna was always jealous of arjuna

though he knew arjuna was his brotherhe still hated him and wanted to kill

him

some are saying that kuru army was not prepared to fight with arjuna at viratnagara so they lost this is not true they have come well

prepared and karna tried to defeat arjuna but he ran away from arjuna twice in battlefield and arjuna defeated all of them

karna was not even able to defeat abhimanyu and ghatotkatch what to be siad that he can defeat Arjuna

Arjuna is Greatest warrior

Jai Arjuna Jai Krishna

[Guest guest]

 

arjuna is no doubt greatest archer because he alone did not retreat from battle field karna retreated many times form arjuna in battle field

karna was even not able to defeat bheema and fled from him many times in

battle field and he defeated bheema by deciet karna even killed abhimanyu by deceit i agree that karna was generous but not a great warrior than Arjuna Arjuna is the Peerless Archer in Mahabharata.Arjuna,Drona,Bhishma are greatest warriors of mahabharata

there is no instance in mahabharata where arjuna was afraid of karna Arjuna singlehandedly defeated devas,gandharvas and nivathakavachas.he even fought with shiva and Lord Shiva himself said that

there was none equal to him.when jayadratha sought boon from lord Shiva

that he should defeat pandavas the lord shiva said that he himself is incapable of defeating arjuna then how can he give him the boon.

and some people have said that karna was asked by kunti not to use nagastra twice that is not true arjuna had greatest astra pashupata

but he did not rely on it for vistory he could have used it but he did not use it because he wanted to win victory by power of his arms but karna relied on shakti astra to kill arjuna

and again he used nagastra when he was not able to defeat arjuna by any astra or arrows.Karna was always jealous of arjuna

though he knew arjuna was his brotherhe still hated him and wanted to kill

him

some are saying that kuru army was not prepared to fight with arjuna at viratnagara so they lost this is not true they have come well

prepared and karna tried to defeat arjuna but he ran away from arjuna twice in battlefield and arjuna defeated all of them

karna was not even able to defeat abhimanyu and ghatotkatch what to be siad that he can defeat Arjuna

Arjuna is Greatest warrior

Jai Arjuna Jai Krishna

 

 

They why did Kunti was asked to go beg to Karna to spare the other 4 sons of her and also to shoot Nagastra only once?

Why was he robbed of his Kavach and Kundala?

Why was Yudhistra not able to defeat him and ran away from battlefield injured badly by Karna?

Why did Arjuna not kill Karna in the last battle unless he was trying to lift his chariot?

Why did Yudhistra request Salya to try to demoralise Karna?

 

Karna was no way inferior to Arjuna,his kindness became his weakness,yea he killed Abhimanyu by deciet,even before that Arjuna killed Bhishma by deciet and Drona later was defeated by deciet,so was Duryodana and Karna,so know the facts before you talk.

 

Karna ran away from the captors of Duryodana cause he was drunk like everyone else at the time and never expected a battle and he never defeated Bheema by deciet.Bheema was not a archer at all in the first place,even Arjuna cant defeat Bheema in wrestling,talk about Archery not wrestling

[Guest guest]

 

They why did Kunti was asked to go beg to Karna to spare the other 4 sons of her and also to shoot Nagastra only once?

 

No argument. Whatever Kunti's sentiments doesnt prove Karna as the best archer, that could be maternal affection

 

 

Why was he robbed of his Kavach and Kundala?

Again, we are talking about being an archer not about who is invincible in battle. If we want to go by this then you would say Karna was immortal but a bad archer could be invincible too.

 

 

Why was Yudhistra not able to defeat him and ran away from battlefield injured badly by Karna?

 

This just proves Karna was a better archer than Yudhistra, but doesnt prove he was the best.

 

 

Why did Arjuna not kill Karna in the last battle unless he was trying to lift his chariot?

You can say why did Karna not kill Arjuna too, when he forgot to bring the shakti weapon with him in the virat war. Arjun had higher principles than simply to defeat Karna, he wanted to save his army and win the kingdom for the righteous cause. Karna only lived to prove he was better than Arjun. Higher than war code is dharma. And war code can be disobeyed to serve Dharma any day.

 

 

 

Why did Yudhistra request Salya to try to demoralise Karna?

 

Again, this doesnt prove that Yudhistra thinks Karna is the better archer than Arjuna, it just proves that Yudhistra was protective of Arjuna because he is his brother.

 

 

 

 

Karna was no way inferior to Arjuna,his kindness became his weakness,yea he killed Abhimanyu by deciet,even before that Arjuna killed Bhishma by deciet and Drona later was defeated by deciet,so was Duryodana and Karna,so know the facts before you talk.

 

Actually Arjuna killed Bhishma on the direction of Bhisma when Bhisma instructed his beloved grandsons on how to defeat him and it is said that Shikhandi will be the cause of Bhisma's death and so whatever was written in destiny came to pass. Arjuna was simply following orders not just to prove that he was the best archer or to kill Karna, but to win for righteousness. I think you are missing the point here, yes everything was deciet the whole war was a deciet, but we conveniently forget how much Duryodhana used deciet to capture someone else's kingdom, he poisoned Bhima when he was a kid, I could go on. The ratio of the army was 3:2, there was no chance the righteousness could win over the wrong doers by fair means, simple maths, so they had to use strategies. Lord Sri Krishna Himself said this after the war, that these wars Bhishma, Drona and Karna were practically undefeatable in war, not to say Arjuna would have lost against him but it would be such a stalemate that the whole of Yudhistra army would have been wiped out by then.

 

 

Karna ran away from the captors of Duryodana cause he was drunk like everyone else at the time and never expected a battle and he never defeated Bheema by deciet.Bheema was not a archer at all in the first place,even Arjuna cant defeat Bheema in wrestling,talk about Archery not wrestling

 

 

Yes I agree, this is true but again this argument only defends the weak argument made to you by the other person, the opposing Karna argument doesnt prove Arjuna as best archer. So this argument is futile

[Guest guest]

In Archery there are various aspects and types. Karna could be the best at many skills. It is possible that karna could be the best archer at exhibitions & competitions and Arjuna could be the best at wars because in War man's karmas play important role. With curses and negative effect of adharma at credit, the war can not be won even if the skill of archery is at very high standards. The papas and bad karmas would always come in middle. The war of dharma can be won by only righteous peson. Strategies of war is another matter. Kuntis fear could be her own fear but Kunti was not the right person to make this judgement.

 

While acquiring astras, the user needed to maintain certain code of conduct. This could be the reason, why Arjuna and Karna did not use their astras every time. Besides, during the battlefield, the correct applicability of wisdom was also required. Overconfidence and pride of their power/weapons surely put the archers in wrong situation.

 

Arjuna was more perfect that Karna, that is why he won. Ultimately, he wins who performs better and he performs better who is perfect in life. Mistakes in life lowers the performance.

 

Above all, in the presence of Krishna, the lord himself, nobody can be the best archer.

[Guest guest]

 

No argument. Whatever Kunti's sentiments doesnt prove Karna as the best archer, that could be maternal affection

 

 

 

No you are avoiding the key question,since Kunti was instructed by Krishna who knew Karna was no way inferior(assuming Arjuna equal) and wanted to hamper Karna hence she asked for the WOW..otherwise why would Krishna instruct Kunti to ask this,tell me that

 

 

 

Again, we are talking about being an archer not about who is invincible in battle. If we want to go by this then you would say Karna was immortal but a bad archer could be invincible too.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

In Archery there are various aspects and types. Karna could be the best at many skills. It is possible that karna could be the best archer at exhibitions & competitions and Arjuna could be the best at wars because in War man's karmas play important role.

 

If you are talking about archery in exhibition/competition and compare it with incidents of war, it is not correct. Archery of exhibitions is far different from archery of war where life is at stake. If a best archer allows others to kill himself, how he can be the best ? In war you can not underestimate the enemy. You can not let the enemy go, if enemy forgets his weapons. That only means that you are overconfident because of pride and believes that your enemy can not do anything to you. If karna was superior to Arjuna, why karna couldn't kill Arjuna till his chariot broke ? In war, one need to measure enemies strength and weakness till he reaches the stage to use the final blow(astra). Secondly, such astras were to be used only if required.

 

Kuntis visit to karna could be the strategy of war but it does not mean that Karna should forget the code of war and be a emotional fool. He tried to show the world his generousity because he was supporting adharma. On the other hand, Arjuna was fighting for Dharma and did not need any generousity. In a war, one should not say that the loser was the best archer. Everything is fair in love and war.

[Guest guest]

 

No you are avoiding the key question,since Kunti was instructed by Krishna who knew Karna was no way inferior(assuming Arjuna equal) and wanted to hamper Karna hence she asked for the WOW..otherwise why would Krishna instruct Kunti to ask this,tell me that

 

We seem to forget one most significant point. No one can become the best at anything until they are favored by Lord Krishna. Arjuna was a devotee of Lord Krishna, he was pious and fighting for the righteous cause and that is a best quality a warrior has, what to speak of an archer. Karna was fighting for the unrighteous cause and therefore the disadvantage was that he was already unfortunate because irreligion can never conquer religion. Krishna did tell Arjuna that the likes of Bhisma, Drona and Karna was insurmountable. So it would be an all out draw. Note that I haven’t made a comment to say Arjuna was the best archer. I am saying the previous comment doesn’t prove Karna as best archer, at most it proves he was Arjuna’s equal, that’s all.

 

One also has to remember that Arjuna’s name was Vijaya, one who was never lost in a war. Where as Karna lost many times in wars.

 

 

 

JHCal said: Again, we are talking about being an archer not about who is invincible in battle. If we want to go by this then you would say Karna was immortal but a bad archer could be invincible too.

 

 

I agree you got a point,if you start thinking that way,every one including Arjuna was blessed with gifts from the GODS,so where is the real test here,maybe Eklavya was the best then..

 

 

We don’t go on maybe’s when it comes to truths, truth is conclusive always…. Arjuna didn’t have a coat of invincibility so he could have been attacked. Karna did have one and that would mean, even if he did let his guard down, he couldn’t be attacked, Arjuna used his skill as an archer to defend his body, Karna doesn’t need to use his skill as an archer to defend himself, This is what I am getting at, not that by depriving all power, after that what makes an archer great.

 

 

 

JHCal said: You can say why did Karna not kill Arjuna too, when he forgot to bring the shakti weapon with him in the virat war. Arjun had higher principles than simply to defeat Karna, he wanted to save his army and win the kingdom for the righteous cause. Karna only lived to prove he was better than Arjun. Higher than war code is dharma. And war code can be disobeyed to serve Dharma any day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And we must also think that providence (divine interventions) gives what we deserve and takes away what we don’t deserve, at the end of the day Karna was deprived because he was fighting out of envy and jealousy of Arjuna and Arjuna was fighting for righteousness, rightneousness is the best quality of an archer. We naturally like to compare warriors on an even keel, but history shows that this is not possible, no two warriors really get to show and compare their skills without other obstacles, there are always factors like karma that take a big part in a fight. So to say lets take all the factors away and put Karna and Arjuna in the middle, who would win is crazy because if we negate karma and other factors, then they would be effectively equal an impossibility, no two living beings have same level karma because we are individual souls.

 

 

The point is Arjuna couldn’t kill Karna, but also Karna couldn’t kill Arjuna either. I will now add a premise, Arjuna is the better archer because he was favored by Lord Krishna. Lord Krishna favors everyone but those who fight for adharma is never favored. This is the moral of the story, even though they were equal, Arjuna was the better archer because he was a devotee of Lord Keshav. The Bhagavad Gita says this that wherever there is Lord Krishna, wherever there is Arjuna, there is opulence, VICTORY etc.

 

As explained earlier, dharma does come into it and is a strong factor when it comes to seeing who is the best and who isn’t, because our choice makes us or breaks us. Karna chose the side of the wretched Kauravas and therefore he is not the best archer, the best archer is always favored by the Supreme. This is the definition of the best archer.

[ombakth]

Even Beeshma supported Kauravas. This means he is not the greatest Archer. Only Arjuna is the greatest Archer.

 

Beeshma is a fool infront of Arjuna. Arjuna could have defeated Beeshma singlehandedly.

 

Beeshma is a emmotional fool because he sided for his king.

 

If Karna is a bad man or he is bad because he sided with Duryodhana then even Beeshma should be treated the same.

 

Why respect is given for Beeshma and not Karna? Give justice like a Court Verdict. Naya. If you support only Beeshma even though they were in same side then this shows one sidedness. This is shows karna is give disrespect not because Karna supported Duryodhana but because he was brought up as a son of Charioteer. Just like how some priest of some temple give respect to Mr. Amitabh Bachchan and change all temple rules and customs just because he is rich and consider common man as Karna who are made to wait outside the temple. That means for money even the Priest bend at that time they forget their ego and don't even check whether Amitabh is a Brahmin, Kshtrayia, Vaishya or Shudra but a common man is ignored and if he is a Dalit then he is not allowed into temple. This is how some have brought Dharmic religion down to 3rd position after Islam and Christianity. Peoplea are not interested in Strengthening Hinduism but they are concerned with maitaining their ego and selfish needs. Some of these people are real responsible for the Decline of Hinduism from Native American Red Indians, Africans and Austrailians. Except ISKCON no one is trying to strenghten Dharmic Religion they are still Jai Arjuna.

 

Sri Krishna and Sri Rama had never shown such one sidedness. Don't forget even after Ramayana war Sri Rama asked Lakshmana to learn from Ravana. Also, Sri Rama conducted last rituals of Ravana. This shows Naya. These are the qualities of great people like Sri Rama and Sri Krishna. They give respect to qualities and punish injustice. If Sri Rama inspite of being a victor can give good treatment for Ravana after when Ravana was defeated just because Ravana was a learned man why can't equal treatment given to Karna. This shows now narrow minded people still are they don't want to leave their ego.

 

Arjuna is great. He sided with Dharma and so on. Don't forget that after Mahabharata war Arjuna and Bheema were filled with ego. So Sri Krishna taught even them a lesson by making Nakula and Shadeva the best Warrior.

 

If they were without any errors then they should have been able to ascend to Heaven with their bodies like how Yudhistra was able to.

 

It was only Sri Krishna who was great in entire Mahabharata. If Sri Krishna would not have been there in the War then the question of Pandavas wining the war would not have been come. Where there is Sri Krishna there is Victory.

 

If you don't want to accept Karna's valour then it is fine but don't make Arjuna great because he is is not worth only Sri Krishna, Sri Rama, Gautam Buddha, Mahavira Vardhman and Guru Nanak are great.

 

Not Arjuna.

 

Jai Sri Krishna and not Arjuna because Sri Krishna united all Tribes inhabitating in Ancient India at that time hence not only Dharmic Religion he had done a lot for Ancient India. Sri Krishna was a True Indian and we all carry the genes of Sri Krishna and Sri Rama.

 

They are not only Godhead but also our real Great Great Great.......Grandfather and not Arjuna.

[JHCal]

 

Even Beeshma supported Kauravas. This means he is not the greatest Archer. Only Arjuna is the greatest Archer.

Yep...agreed!

 

Beeshma is a fool infront of Arjuna. Arjuna could have defeated Beeshma singlehandedly.

Beeshma is a respected elder and not a fool, Arjuna can defeat him singlehandedly if Krishna so desired this. Arjuna is unlimitedly powerful because of his own qualifications, he is the perfect instrument to exercise Lord Krishna's will.

 

Beeshma is a emmotional fool because he sided for his king.

Bishma was an objective and logical personality who fought for Hastinapur, he was in obligation to fight, and he did promise that he will fight for the king but will not kill any of the Pandavas initially.

 

If Karna is a bad man or he is bad because he sided with Duryodhana then even Beeshma should be treated the same.

 

Whether Karna is bad or not is a different topic, we can open another thread on that, we are talking about what makes a better archer. And the better archer is the one that is favoured by Lord Sri Krishna.

 

Why respect is given for Beeshma and not Karna? Give justice like a Court Verdict. Naya. If you support only Beeshma even though they were in same side then this shows one sidedness...

 

This is an interesting topic for another thread, we are going outside the context of what are talking about.

 

Arjuna is great. He sided with Dharma and so on. Don't forget that after Mahabharata war Arjuna and Bheema were filled with ego. So Sri Krishna taught even them a lesson by making Nakula and Shadeva the best Warrior. If they were without any errors then they should have been able to ascend to Heaven with their bodies like how Yudhistra was able to.

 

Agreed...because the war was one only by the will of the Lord, but not to forget also that this is the Lord's Lila, the Lord's devotees play like they are egotistical so that we can learn from them. Lord Brahma stole away the cowherd boys and calves, this doesnt show that he was offensive, but he carried out a play that way so that we can learn from it. Also we must wonder why Lord Sri Krishna instructed only Arjuna the Bhagavad Gita, this was due to his qualifications as the perfect student and his dearmost devotee friend, a devotee has no ego. If Arjuna had ego, he would be unqualified to recieve the Gita, so therefore he pretended to be egotistical so that we learn from them.

 

 

It was only Sri Krishna who was great in entire Mahabharata. If Sri Krishna would not have been there in the War then the question of Pandavas wining the war would not have been come. Where there is Sri Krishna there is Victory.

 

Yes, agreed, the Lord likes to give credit to his devotees, so in the Gita it is said:

Wherever there is Krsna, the master of all mystics, and wherever there is Arjuna, the supreme archer, there will also certainly be opulence, victory, extraordinary power, and morality. That is my opinion - Chapter: 18 - Shaloka 78

 

If you don't want to accept Karna's valour then it is fine but don't make Arjuna great because he is is not worth only Sri Krishna, Sri Rama, Gautam Buddha, Mahavira Vardhman and Guru Nanak are great.

Not Arjuna.

 

We dont say Arjuna is worthy, we say Arjuna is worthy because Lord Krishna saw him to be qualified as worthy, because he is the Lord's devotee and a suitable candidate for recieving the Bhagavad Gita. We are not challenging Karna as a person, again this is another topic...something like "was Karna good or bad?"

 

 

Jai Sri Krishna and not Arjuna because Sri Krishna united all Tribes inhabitating in Ancient India at that time hence not only Dharmic Religion he had done a lot for Ancient India. Sri Krishna was a True Indian and we all carry the genes of Sri Krishna and Sri Rama.

 

The Skanda Purana says that the Lord and His devotees are never seperate, so they are both great, the devotee is great because he is a devotee of Lord Sri Krishna, and the Lord is great because he is achyuta: Infallible. When the Lord descends to earth, His devotees come along with Him, so he is never seperate from His devotees. The Lord is always victorious therefore His devotees, who carry out His orders are also victorious because they exercise His will.

The Lord has not cast creed, country because He is absolute, to him there is no difference what faith a person follows or what country we are from, He sees us as His children. Genes are not carried because as you may know there was a massive fraticidal war among Krishna's dynasty and no one was left to carry out the family lineage (genes)

 

 

They are not only Godhead but also our real Great Great Great.......Grandfather and not Arjuna.

 

Actually the Lord is our dearmost friend and father, He wants the overall best for us, and only His devotees can take us to Krishna, so both should be respected.

Please forgive for my offences where caused, just trying to be objective as possible. You had some great points. But just to defend the sanity of the thread, we need to be clear what we are talking about, something are well out of context.

 

JHCal

[gramo]

 

Even Beeshma supported Kauravas. This means he is not the greatest Archer. Only Arjuna is the greatest Archer.

 

Beeshma is a fool infront of Arjuna. Arjuna could have defeated Beeshma singlehandedly.

 

Beeshma is a emmotional fool because he sided for his king.

 

If Karna is a bad man or he is bad because he sided with Duryodhana then even Beeshma should be treated the same. .

 

Karna and Bishma were supportign Adharma on different levels. Bhishma was forced to support adharma eventhough he was not willing and tried to stop kauravas. Both were invincible due to their boons and not only because of their archery skill. How can anybody compare archery skill under the shield of boons ?

 

 

Sri Krishna and Sri Rama had never shown such one sidedness. Don't forget even after Ramayana war Sri Rama asked Lakshmana to learn from Ravana. Also, Sri Rama conducted last rituals of Ravana. This shows Naya. These are the qualities of great people like Sri Rama and Sri Krishna. They give respect to qualities and punish injustice. If Sri Rama inspite of being a victor can give good treatment for Ravana after when Ravana was defeated just because Ravana was a learned man why can't equal treatment given to Karna. This shows now narrow minded people still are they don't want to leave their ego.

 

This is about Karna's and Arjuna's archery. Pls do not mix-up with Sri Rama's victory.

 

 

If they were without any errors then they should have been able to ascend to Heaven with their bodies like how Yudhistra was able to.

 

If the intention was to reach Heaven, then what is the need of war ?

 

 

It was only Sri Krishna who was great in entire Mahabharata. If Sri Krishna would not have been there in the War then the question of Pandavas wining the war would not have been come. Where there is Sri Krishna there is Victory.

 

The conclusion of war of dharma should not be just the victory.

[ombakth]

I made those points just because some people were just sticked to their baised views that Karna was not a good archer just because he sided with Duryodhana. But, they treat Beeshma in a different way just because he supported Duryodhana only for Hastinapur. Don't forget that he had taken a oath in the same way even Karna had taken a oath of friendship.

 

It is agreed that it is a God's lila but there is nothing great of Arjuna that he pretend to be egoistic etc.. Those people of that time were just like us almost same feelings and same emotions. It is obvious that we may not be bad but still for a fraction of second we can be egoistic to some extent.

 

Geeta was revealed to all who were present in that War. Everyone saw the Virat Swaroopa of Sri Krishna. Geeta was told so that those who were present in that war after hearing Geeta can decide whether to side with Dharma or Adharma but as many of them were under oath or selfishness avoid the sacred Geeta. There are many people who own Geeta or consider themselves to be the Authorized to twist and turn Dharmic religion do commit mistakes and to some extent sometime or the other become egoistic for a fraction of second. Like some Priest who don't allow Dalits to enter into Temple because of their ego then even Geeta is not for those priest.

 

Geeta is actually a Code of Conduct it is upto an individual whether he wants to follow these Code of Conduct to side with Dharma or not. In the same way Bible and Koran are Code of Conducts They just say what to do and what not to do, they are not a capitalist agreement or communist whip which compel people what have to do. Those who follow it will learn good things and lead a good life or a good death those who don't want to follow it is left upto them. What Arjuna did was that he followed Geeta. Whereas some of them agreed to some of it's ideaology and not of them rejected it entirey like Duryodhana.

 

Even if Karna would have come under dharmic flag then even he would have been the first candidate whom Sri Krishna would have supported and reveal Geeta. Sri Krishna knew that though Arjuna was good in War but he could not plan a strategy but it was also a fact that in Pandavas camp only he was the one who have the capability to win a war that means even if other Pandavas wer killed then Sri Krishna would have still won the war if Arjuna was Alive. That means Hands of Arjuna and Brain of Sri Krishna would have made them to restore Dharmic Empire But if Karna would have supported Dharmic flag then Sri Krishna would not had required any of the Pandavas. Both Sri Krishna and Karna would have won the war single handedly with even major strategies also they would have spreaded dharmic empire thoughout the globe in Arabia and even in Rome to the conturies where a warrior can ever thing of. It would have been strongest conquest in the history of Mankind.

 

Sri Krishna never sided with just Arjuna, He belongs to everyone and everyone belongs to him. The main objective of that war was to bring entire subcontinent under one flag of Dharma.

 

Baised views were given against Karna only because he was an adopted son of a Charioteer or a discard son (Najaeez Aulad) of Kunti. Even today to some extent we differentiate people on the bases of their birth.

 

Imagine what would have happened if Pandavas had excepted Karna as a Friend leaving aside their Baises againts a Charioteer Son. Even Karna would have fought against Duryodhana.

 

Today most of the Backward Class people indentify themselves with Karna. If equal respect is given to them then even they can help in Strengthening Dharmic religion as a whole.

 

Instead of supporting people like Duryodhana they will give blind support and loyalty to Dharmic Religion.

 

Take this prediction "The things that were not able to be accomplished by the Upper caste can be done by Lower caste. They will spread our Ancient Indian Dharmic culture throughout the world. This time these Karnas will give blind support to Hinduism instead of Duryodhana. They will get respect which the truely deserve. Each and every single low caste person whom these higher caste consider as Dalit with disrespect will be the only one who will spread Hinduism."

 

My point for including Ramanayana was that when Sri Rama himself praised the valour and knowleged of Ravana inspite of Ravana being an enemy then why some orthodox people don't even want to think that even Karna was a great archer. Inpsite of knowing many thing about Ramanayana and Mahabharata nobody understood anything. For some it is just a Mythology a Magic show.

 

If you consider Dharma as Duties. If you look in that prespective then everyone in that war were following Dharma.

 

But if you consider Dharma as righteous Duty. Only then you understand who actually followed Dharma.

 

Even Sri Krishna wanted to bring Karna under Dharmic Flag but it was too late, karna was already indebt to Duryodhana. Sri Krishna inspite of being our Great Great Grandfather and our God was not like us he gave what Karna deserved. He gave him death in the battle field like a Warrior and also didn't allowed Arjuna to be the best Archer infront of Karna. For supporting Dharma Sri Krishna gave Arjuna victory and his friendship and support.

 

If Karna was not a Greatest Archer then Kunti would not had feared that Karna could kill Arjuna infact should would have asked Arjuna not to kill Karna and forgive him. Now for this some might say that Kunti did not wanted to reveal her past to Arjuna but how can she gaurantee that if she reveals the story to Karna then he might not spread it to others, the risk of her past been revealed was equal in both the cases. She was very well aware that only Karna can defeat Arjuna and Arjuna by no means can defeat Karna without the help of Sri Krishna. The reason why she went to Karna and revealed her relation with Karna was to Demoralize Karna. That is what happened the hatred against Pandavas became less and karna became more lienient towards Pandavas.

 

No, In reality the conclusion of war was the VICTORY OF DHARMA and not just Dharma or Victory.

[hindu12]

 

I made those points just because some people were just sticked to their baised views that Karna was not a good archer just because he sided with Duryodhana. But, they treat Beeshma in a different way just because he supported Duryodhana only for Hastinapur. Don't forget that he had taken a oath in the same way even Karna had taken a oath of friendship.

 

It is agreed that it is a God's lila but there is nothing great of Arjuna that he pretend to be egoistic etc.. Those people of that time were just like us almost same feelings and same emotions. It is obvious that we may not be bad but still for a fraction of second we can be egoistic to some extent.

 

Geeta was revealed to all who were present in that War. Everyone saw the Virat Swaroopa of Sri Krishna. Geeta was told so that those who were present in that war after hearing Geeta can decide whether to side with Dharma or Adharma but as many of them were under oath or selfishness avoid the sacred Geeta. There are many people who own Geeta or consider themselves to be the Authorized to twist and turn Dharmic religion do commit mistakes and to some extent sometime or the other become egoistic for a fraction of second. Like some Priest who don't allow Dalits to enter into Temple because of their ego then even Geeta is not for those priest.

 

Geeta is actually a Code of Conduct it is upto an individual whether he wants to follow these Code of Conduct to side with Dharma or not. In the same way Bible and Koran are Code of Conducts They just say what to do and what not to do, they are not a capitalist agreement or communist whip which compel people what have to do. Those who follow it will learn good things and lead a good life or a good death those who don't want to follow it is left upto them. What Arjuna did was that he followed Geeta. Whereas some of them agreed to some of it's ideaology and not of them rejected it entirey like Duryodhana.

 

Even if Karna would have come under dharmic flag then even he would have been the first candidate whom Sri Krishna would have supported and reveal Geeta. Sri Krishna knew that though Arjuna was good in War but he could not plan a strategy but it was also a fact that in Pandavas camp only he was the one who have the capability to win a war that means even if other Pandavas wer killed then Sri Krishna would have still won the war if Arjuna was Alive. That means Hands of Arjuna and Brain of Sri Krishna would have made them to restore Dharmic Empire But if Karna would have supported Dharmic flag then Sri Krishna would not had required any of the Pandavas. Both Sri Krishna and Karna would have won the war single handedly with even major strategies also they would have spreaded dharmic empire thoughout the globe in Arabia and even in Rome to the conturies where a warrior can ever thing of. It would have been strongest conquest in the history of Mankind.

 

Sri Krishna never sided with just Arjuna, He belongs to everyone and everyone belongs to him. The main objective of that war was to bring entire subcontinent under one flag of Dharma.

 

Baised views were given against Karna only because he was an adopted son of a Charioteer or a discard son (Najaeez Aulad) of Kunti. Even today to some extent we differentiate people on the bases of their birth.

 

Imagine what would have happened if Pandavas had excepted Karna as a Friend leaving aside their Baises againts a Charioteer Son. Even Karna would have fought against Duryodhana.

 

Today most of the Backward Class people indentify themselves with Karna. If equal respect is given to them then even they can help in Strengthening Dharmic religion as a whole.

 

Instead of supporting people like Duryodhana they will give blind support and loyalty to Dharmic Religion.

 

Take this prediction "The things that were not able to be accomplished by the Upper caste can be done by Lower caste. They will spread our Ancient Indian Dharmic culture throughout the world. This time these Karnas will give blind support to Hinduism instead of Duryodhana. They will get respect which the truely deserve. Each and every single low caste person whom these higher caste consider as Dalit with disrespect will be the only one who will spread Hinduism."

 

My point for including Ramanayana was that when Sri Rama himself praised the valour and knowleged of Ravana inspite of Ravana being an enemy then why some orthodox people don't even want to think that even Karna was a great archer. Inpsite of knowing many thing about Ramanayana and Mahabharata nobody understood anything. For some it is just a Mythology a Magic show.

 

If you consider Dharma as Duties. If you look in that prespective then everyone in that war were following Dharma.

 

But if you consider Dharma as righteous Duty. Only then you understand who actually followed Dharma.

 

Even Sri Krishna wanted to bring Karna under Dharmic Flag but it was too late, karna was already indebt to Duryodhana. Sri Krishna inspite of being our Great Great Grandfather and our God was not like us he gave what Karna deserved. He gave him death in the battle field like a Warrior and also didn't allowed Arjuna to be the best Archer infront of Karna. For supporting Dharma Sri Krishna gave Arjuna victory and his friendship and support.

 

If Karna was not a Greatest Archer then Kunti would not had feared that Karna could kill Arjuna infact should would have asked Arjuna not to kill Karna and forgive him. Now for this some might say that Kunti did not wanted to reveal her past to Arjuna but how can she gaurantee that if she reveals the story to Karna then he might not spread it to others, the risk of her past been revealed was equal in both the cases. She was very well aware that only Karna can defeat Arjuna and Arjuna by no means can defeat Karna without the help of Sri Krishna. The reason why she went to Karna and revealed her relation with Karna was to Demoralize Karna. That is what happened the hatred against Pandavas became less and karna became more lienient towards Pandavas.

 

No, In reality the conclusion of war was the VICTORY OF DHARMA and not just Dharma or Victory.

 

 

In the Mahabharata it says twice, that Karna was the greatest arhcer ever known.

[ombakth]

During Mahabharata Era Arjuna was useful for restoring Dharmic Empire but in this Kaliyuga we require Karna and Eklavya to restore Dharmic Empire throughout the world because many Tribals in India associate themselves with Eklavya and many Lower caste people associate themselves with Karna. If our Tribals and low caste people help in strenghtening Dharmic religion then even the Aboriginal Tribes of Australia and Native Red Indians of America and Tribes of Africa and follow the suite and come back to Ancient Indian Dharmic Religion.

 

By praising Karna's achievement and valour though not 100% but still you can consider it can restore 5% of faith among these Tribals and Lower caste people that in Reality only Ancient Indian Dharmic religion Personality like Sri Rama and Sri Krishna treated people equally and not Islam and Christianity.

 

It was latter on when the discrimination started rising in our culture because of the selfishness of some morons of our civilization because of which Islam and Christianity was able to enter into this Sacred Holy Land India.

 

This time Ancient Indian Dharmic religion requires Karnas and Eklavyas to restore Dharmic religion even in Arabia and Vatican. Just like How Mongol Animist/Buddhist Emperor Genghis Khan caused damage to Islam and Christianity in the same way Karnas and Eklavyas should help in strenghtening Dharmic religon. Just like how Dharmic King (because the Edicts writtern by Ashoka claims himself to be a Dharmic King and does not specifies himself to be Hindu, Buddhist or Jain king) Ashoka helped in spreading Dharmic religion(A mixed culture of all Hindu, Jain and Buddhists thoughts and idealogy).

 

It was said that Karna was fair and handsome because he was a son of Surya perhaps he was the originator of Blonde Race because some Huns of Finland and Ireland trace their descendancy from Karna. Hence even these blondes can be influenced into Ancient Indian Dhramic religion but only if they are given equal treatment. All temples should be open even for foreigners so that once they are in then they themselves will help spreading Hinduism into West.

 

Also, in Buddhist scriptures it is mentioned that Karna was the king of Anga (Tibet). That means Tibet with Mount Kailash and Manasarovar also belongs to this Holy India and so is the Animist culture is the part of Hinduism and so even Animist Mongols are part of Hinduism.

 

Give equal respect to even Buddha and Mahavira and even celebrate their festival because this will help in bring back Jainism and Buddhism into Hindu Envelope. Because even Buddha and Mahavira spoke about same Dharma which Sri Rama and Sri Krishna spoke. Even Buddha and Mahavira did not specify Dharma as just Boudh Dharma or Jain Dharma they just called it as Dharma. On top of that even they were Indians.

 

Hence all Hindus, Buddhists and Jains belong to Dharmic Religion. Hence all of us are Dhramic. Avoid the practice of claiming ourself to be just Hindu, Buddhist or Jains to unite Hindus, Buddhist and Jains.

 

A Higher caste and a lower caste person is a Dharmic.

A Hindu is a Dharmic.

A Jain is a Dharmic.

A Buddhist is a Dharmic.

 

There should be one code of Conduct that all Hindus, Jains and Buddhist should follow is that United Dharmic religion and United India Idealogy.

 

Since we are children of Sri Rama and Sri Krishna that is the reason why the brain capacity of an Indian is much better than any foreigner and we are more loyal than any other foreigner. Because the genes of Sri Rama and Sri Krishna is present in our body. So all Kashmiris and Bangladeshis should return back to the Ancient Indian Dharmic religion of their Great Great Grandfather Sri Rama and Sri Krishna.

 

This the reason why I am strongly supporting Karnas and Eklavyas. But I am not supporting Duryodhana and Ravana.

[ombakth]

Even after being aware of the fact that if he sacrifices his Kawcha and Kundal he will be vulnerable that when Indra comes in a disguise of a Bhramin. Inspite of being always insulted by the upper caste he still did not showed hatred against upper caste and without hesistating he gave away his Kawcha and Kundala to a Brahmin this shows that he was against caste differences but he did not kept hatred against upper caste people. In the same way even todays lower caste people should forget all discrimination in the past and join hands with the upper caste to strengthen Hinduism.

 

A person like Karna who can sacrifice his Kawcha and Kundala inspite of knowing the fact that he can be injured without them shows that he was not selfish but the only fault was that he supported Duryodhana but for him there was no other option.

 

Looking into this facts it is not good to judge karna just on the bases that he supported Duryodhana and to give baised views that he was not a good archer or a good warrior.

 

He was indeed a good archer but because he supported Adharma he lost his skills to some extent.

 

On the other hand Parashurama was a social reformer don't just categorize him as the teacher of only Brahmin. He always raized his axe against Injustice on the part of rulers due to this reason he gave these corrupt rulers punishments. On the other hand he taught his skills to all

brahmins and even tribals don't just restrict Parashurama as a Bhramin teacher. The reason why he got angry with Karna was that he taught Karna to be a low caste person but when he found out that he belongs to higher caste and he cheated him on his real birth thats why he curse him in anger but later on he calmed down when he found out that Karna himself did not knew about his real birth story. Parashurama was like lokmanya Tilak who inspite of being a Brahmin wanted all Hindus to unite whether higher caste or lower caste and gave equal oppertunity to all.

 

Parashurama's real kshetra was Kerala which was famous for it's Martial Art called Karalipayattu from which all Eastern Martial arts like Karate, Kunfu, Ju Jistu originated. These Arts were taught to Parashurama by Shiva himself. This was the reason why Karna was a great Archer and a Warrior because he was well trained in Ancient Indian Martial Arts like Karalipayattu.

 

Arjuna was good only in Archer skills. Arjuna was not good in Mace.

Bheema was good in Wrestling and using Mace. Bheema was not good in Bow and Arrow.

 

But Karna was capable of fighting with any form of weapon and any way of duel or war. During the time of Learning he learnt each and every skills carefully because he wanted to prove to the world that even a person from low birth can be a greates warrior can learn skills which no one can match.

 

Holy India Holy Dharma.

[gramo]

 

It was decided that Abhimanyu would lead the Pandavas into the Chakravyuha and then they would fight their way out. No one that day was able to defeat Abhimanyu, who had entered the Chakravyuha, circular arrangement of soldiers. But Jayadratha, king in the Kaurava army, prevented the other Pandavas from entering the formation. Abhimanyu was left all alone in the middle of the enemy formation. Once inside, he fought valiantly and single handedly defeated almost all reputed generals of the Kauravas including Karna, Drona and Duryodhana. Duryodhana and Karna chose to assist to eliminate Abhimanyu as per the instructions of Drona. Karna shot arrows that broke Abhimanyu's bow and the reins of his chariot, while the Kauravas overwhelmed him. The battle ends with Abhimanyu's death.

This shows that Abhimanyu was killed ruthlessly by Kauravas including Karna without honouring war rules. So any such killing from Pandava’s side was justifiable under these circumstances.

 

On the fourteenth day, the battle uncharacteristically spilled over into the night and Ghatotkacha, the half-asura son of the Pandava Bhima, began decimating the Kaurava forces (Asuras became extraordinarily powerful at night). Duryodhana and Karna bravely stood and fought with him. Finally when it semmed that Ghatotkacha would decimate all the Kaurava forces that very night, Duryodhana requested Karna to salvage the situation.Thus,he was forced to use the Shakti weapon on Ghatotkacha. This had been granted to him by Indra as a mark of respect for his peerless generosity. However, Indra allowed Karna to use the weapon only once, after which it would return to Indra. Karna was now without that weapon and his impregnable armour and earrings. Now Karna did not have a divine weapon that was a serious threat to Arjuna and would have to rely primarily on his skills and prowess to take on Arjuna, who was equipped with a wider range of divine weaponry.

It was friendship with Duryodhan that costed Karna to loose the last shakti weapon without which it was impossible to win the battle. On the other hand, it could have been war strategy by Pandavas to sacrifice Ghatotkach and win the war.

 

Without the Shakti weapon, Karna had no particular way to kill Arjuna. He had to rely upon his own garnered skill. In a wondrous, intense display of amazing archery, valour and courage, Karna and Arjuna engaged and exhausted all their brilliance, knowledge and passion. Karna devised an intelligent strategy based upon his personal prowess. He stunned Arjuna with a powerful volley of arrows that struck his chest. And the instant in which Arjuna was dazzled, Karna let loose another powerful volley intended at killing his powerful foe. King Shalya of Madra, Karna's charioteer (Shalya, who was the uncle of Nakula and Sahdeva, had been tricked into fighting on the Kaurava side, but had promised Yudhisthira that he would not allow Karna to kill Arjuna), told Karna to play safe by aiming the arrow at Arjuna's chest. However, Karna refused to heed that advice and aimed the arrow at Arjuna's head. But Lord Krishna came to his friend and devotee's rescue, plunging the chariot into the earth by his power, causing the fatal arrow to miss Arjuna by a few miserable inches and strike Arjuna's crown instead. During the course of combat, one of the Karna's chariot wheels got stuck in loose soil, apparently because of a curse put on Karna by BhooDevi (Mother Earth). Karna once squeezed a fist of mud to extract ghee which was accidentally dropped by a girl. (Bhoo Devi) Mother Earth angered by his act cursed him that his chariot's wheel will be stuck in loose soil when it is critical and crucial. King Shalya, who was his charioteer, refused to get down and remove the wheel from the mud . Hence Karna asked Arjuna to disengage in combat, while he got off his chariot and removed the wheel from the mud. Arjuna agreed. But Krishna recalled Karna's previous lapses in honourable conduct and ordered Arjuna to shoot at Karna while he was attempting to lift his wheel out of the mud. The chariot wheel remained stuck and the curse of Parashurama ensured that Karna could not recall the mantras necessary to unleash the more powerful weapons of mass destruction. Krishna reminds Arjuna of Karna's ruthlessness against Abhimanyu when Abhimanyu was similarly left without a chariot or weapons. All of Arjuna's tears, pain and anger swelled up within him as he aimed the fatal shaft Anjalika at a desperate Karna and beheaded him.

Karna was a great warrior but his past karmas played important role in determining his fate. Archery was linked with shakti powers and weapons. Warriors with these destructiive astras/weapons were invicible unless they make mistake. One can not be master of everything, either most generous man or the best warrior. On the one hand, Karna sacrificed his weapons for the sake of his generousity and still supported adharma. It was a mistake. On the other hand, Arjuna did not use his most powerful weapons to destroy Karna. With so many powerful weapons in hand, the only winner was the best warrior, otherwise both the archer should have been trapped in similar situations. Why only Karna ?

[indulekhadasi]

Quote: 1) Arjuna couldn't kill Karna fair and square

 

Where did that come from? Did not Arjuna defeat Karna fair and square in teh Virat war?

[maharaj13]

i guess maybe karna was but then he was destined to lose to arjun anyway

[maharaj13]

but then again there was that arjun virat victory over all the warriors including karna