karna

[Guest guest]

is it not unfair that karna was denied training by Dronacarya simply because he was not a Brahmin?

 

Surely getting training in archery leads to becoming a kshatriya, so why does one have to be a Brahmin?

[Guest guest]

If you haev studied it you will know that Karna was indeed the disciple of Duronacharya.I think you confuse Parasuram with Drona.Parasurama refused to train ksathriyas and taught only Bhramins.The reason was for anyone to see.He hated ksathriyas like hell.He annihilated ksathriyas from the earth.That's why he taught only Bhramins.

 

Learn Mahabharatha from vyasa rishi rather than from the atheists who know nothing from Mahabharatha.

[Guest guest]

Priya Vaishnava

 

Do you know mahabharata properly, Karna was not a student of Drona, infact karna is introduced to Kauravas and the pandavas in the arena where both were showing their talents they learned from Drona. Duryodhana was please with karna as he was able to match everything that arjuna was doing ?

 

I think you shld learn mahabharat frm vyasa rishi properly .

[Guest guest]

karna was refused training not because he was not a brahmin but because he was not a khatriya. drona taught only khatriyas and sons of kings and karna was a soot-putra or son of a charioteer. hence he fit in neither category.

[Guest guest]

so doesn't that mean that Drona would onyl train according to birth not nature?

 

i thought varnashram was according to nature, and Karna blatantly had a kshatriya nature, so why Drona wanted to keep an elitist policy of not opening it up to those who were able?

[Guest guest]

Sorry,forgot that.Sorry shaket,sorry guest.

 

Varnadharma is by birth.It's never by nature.That is the fundamental basic of hinduism.War was taught only to ksathriyas.Construction was taught only to sudras.Each caste had it's own science in vedas and were taught only that.

 

It was the way division of labour was at those days.It was how the society was organized.It's not wrong.Talking communism,saying all should know all,is theoritically good.Practically isnt.

 

That is even the basic of karmayoga.Each varna should do its job and dedicate the result to god.Krishna even says "death is preferable than leaving swadharma"

 

Now the society has been corrupted.People no more do the work given to them according to their varna.But thankfully the varna system hasnt been destroyed.That's what will happen in kali according to krishna.He correctly then said to those people who leave their swadharma "leave all dharmas and surrender to me".He even had a way of salvation for those people.

 

If you apply todays standards to people of those days it wont work.If you say king dasarath was polygamist according to todays standards and deserves to be condemned,then you need to check your judgement standards.Drona did not err from the code of conduct of those days.

 

 

[Guest guest]

and why it should be removed from Hinduism.

 

"It was the way division of labour was at those days.It was how the society was organized.It's not wrong.Talking communism,saying all should know all,is theoritically good.Practically isnt."

 

 

While I agree with the idea that people should specialize in things, it is WRONG that their birth should dictate what they should know.

 

Maybe there is truth to this Aryan invasion theory after all, if such an elitist policy was used to keep people from climbing ranks.

 

[veluthukaran]

karna is the greatest warrior of all time, i don't care what you say. Karna is the hero of the Mahabharata, second to Sri Krisna.

[Guest guest]

In every society there are menial jobs and people to do those jobs.Even here in usa i see cobblers and barbers who are proud that they are cobblers.They dont think that their profession is inferior to anybody else.

 

In hindu dharma if you want to change your profession given by varnas you are free to do so.It wont be approved,but it wont be stopped at.Thats all.Remember it was chanakya a bhramin who made chandragupta a vaisya a king.Again harihara and bookka found the vijayanagara empire(vysyas) under tutelage of the great advaitha sanyasin and sankaracharya vidyaranya swami.

 

Krishna clealry has said "death is preferable to leaving swadharma" and he later in geetha said "Leave all dharmas and surrender to me".If you do the later you dont need to worry about the former.

 

Nowhere in world people think changing professions is "climbing ranks".Even the CEO of bata shoes can be called as a cobbler.Will he think that becoming a doctor is climbing ranks?

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(karna is the greatest warrior of all time, i don't care what you say. Karna is the hero of the Mahabharata, second to Sri Krisna.)

 

Karna born a warrior raised a sutputra, a great danvir,but lied to be a brahmin, which cost him dear on the battle field. a great hero among many great personalities hard to choose, Mahabharat would not be Maha without anyone one of them.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[veluthukaran]

karna never said he was bramhin so how do you say he lied?

[sushil_kanoria]

TEXT 13

 

catur-varnyam maya srstam

guna-karma-vibhagasah

tasya kartaram api mam

viddhy akartaram avyayam

 

SYNONYMS

 

catuh-varnyam--the four divisions of human society; maya--by Me; srstam--created; guna--quality; karma--work; vibhagasah--in terms of division; tasya--of that; kartaram--the father; api--although; mam--Me; viddhi--you may know; akartaram--as the non-doer; avyayam--being unchangeable.

TRANSLATION

 

According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me. And, although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being unchangeable.

PURPORT

 

The Lord is the creator of everything. Everything is born of Him, everything is sustained by Him, and everything, after annihilation, rests in Him. He is therefore the creator of the four divisions of the social order, beginning with the intelligent class of men, technically called brahmanas due to their being situated in the mode of goodness. Next is the administrative class, technically called the ksatriyas due to their being situated in the mode of passion. The mercantile men, called the vaisyas, are situated in the mixed modes of passion and ignorance, and the sudras, or laborer class, are situated in the ignorant mode of material nature. In spite of His creating the four divisions of human society, Lord Krsna does not belong to any of these divisions, because He is not one of the conditioned souls, a section of whom form human society. Human society is similar to any other animal society, but to elevate men from the animal status, the above-mentioned divisions are created by the Lord for the systematic development of Krsna consciousness. The tendency of a particular man toward work is determined by the modes of material nature which he has acquired. Such symptoms of life, according to different modes of material nature, are described in the Eighteenth Chapter of this book. A person in Krsna consciousness, however, is above even the brahmanas, because a brahmana by quality is supposed to know about Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth. Most of them approach the impersonal Brahman manifestation of Lord Krsna, but only a man who transcends the limited knowledge of a brahmana and reaches the knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Sri Krsna, becomes a person in Krsna consciousness--or, in other words, a Vaisnava. Krsna consciousness includes knowledge of all different plenary expansions of Krsna, namely Rama, Nrsimha, Varaha, etc. However, as Krsna is transcendental to this system of the four divisions of human society, a person in Krsna consciousness is also transcendental to all divisions of human society, whether we consider the divisions of community, nation or species.

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(karna never said he was bramhin so how do you say he lied?)

 

He pretended to be a brahmin to learn from Parsuram, i am sure you know the story, how Parsuram finds out that he was not and then cursed him.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Dravidian]

Karna was denied by Drona. However, varnashrama is NOT by birth but by nature. It was the duty of teachers like drona to recognize the nature of an individual and their respective varna. It just happened to be that in more enlightened times that birth and nature of an individual used to work in sinchronism. Because enlightened people could see the nature of people and allowed them to take their rightful place in the order of things. But with the advent of kali yuga on the horizon in the Mahabaratha, such things began to change. And as you see it today in the kali yuga, birth right often tends to be contradictary to and domintaes nature with respect to varnashrama through peoples desire to be powerful and on top of the caste system. Even in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna expresses that varnashrama is of nature orientation, just as all things in the universe. But humans, when corrupt, try to make their own rules out of ego-tainted desires. And so birth right became the means to identify varna or caste. Such abominations will be wiped out, because lies eventually die.

[Guest guest]

Where in that above said verse has krishna said that varna doesnt come by birth?Krishna said that he created varnas.Accepted.No disputes.But how does it continue then?By birth.Not for a single moment will I think that Lord Vishnu is a bhramin or vysya or sudhra.That is for normal human beings.Not for the antharyami.

 

And not for one second I will think that since I belong to Varna X,I am superior to Varna Y.Nothing can insult Hinduism than this barbaric attitude that developed some centuries back.Every human must do the duties assigned to his varna,which is by birth.He should not feel superior or ashamed of doing the job of his varna or belonging to his varna.He will come up in life,whatever his varna is by doing that job with bhakthi and dedication to krishna.That is the concept of karmayoga.

 

And to say that sri vaishnavas are above all is wrong attitude.By saying "above even the bhramanas" what do you mean?Are bhramanas above all other varnas and you vaishnavites are above bhramins?

 

In what way are you superior to a believing saivite or christian?Only because of their prayer and faith has krishna given so much wealth to arabs and white caucasians,irrespective of them being following a corrupted version of hinduism.He did not care whom they worshipped.It went to him.

 

"whomever you worship,you only worship me.Whichever method of worship you follow,you only worship me.Whatever favor you ask to a deity,I give it to you through that deity..."

 

THis is the essence of geetha.In that sense all believers in the world are vaishnavites.All atheists are learners.

 

God bless you.

 

 

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

Birth is nothing to be proud of yet no need to scoff at either, if not birth what else can separate a verna perfectly, surely no body here thinks the birth is an accident, birth in any situation must be based on guna karma. A lion does not produce a rabbit.

Sure humans are more complex, therefore we find more difficult to accept certain situation, especially in this age of kali, standards are lower, but we are what we are through our karma.

Arjun the other hero of Bhagvat gita did not let go, even after seeing the universal form of the lord, the apparent birth of karan and calls him sutputra, it seems the birth has a big say in deciding our verna.

Society can only function properly when all the four vernas live in harmony.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

But why Parshuram teach arhery to Bhism who also a kshatriya