How to bring back my son to Hinduism?

[Guest guest]

First of all Jesus couldn't even save himself, let alone save anyone else. He lost all his faith while dying on the cross asking "father why have thou forsaken me?". This shows his own doubts and confusion. Now how can you trust such as man?

 

There is no such thing as deliverence of Hindus, by becoming christians. It's more like destruction and humiliation of Hindus. It's funny you christians refer to it as 'the truth' when there is so much fraud and lies (not to mention pedophilia) going on in the church and christianity can easily be defeated by simple rational arguments and criticisms. Christianity is dying a painful death in the west as westeners become more scientific and are part of the developed world. The people realise that christianity is not relevant in this day and age, causes more problems than it solves and are taking up spiritual paths like Buddhism which is far more appealing to them.

 

However, the christian missionaries realise they are losing their power grip in the west and have shifted their focus on the third world where people need money, food and care. By pouring their money into conversion in these lands they spread false propaganda like "you're suffering because your god is false, if you worship jesus you will be saved, because he is true". When the victim converts to christianity they are immediately given the care, money, etc they were looking for. This makes them think jesus is helping them and so he must be true, but they don't realise that they been made fools out of and that the money was really coming from collection of rich western nations. MONEY is the answer to their problems, not jesus.

 

[Guest guest]

WELL LISTEN DEAR FRIEND YOU YOURSELF ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS. YOU HAVE TO FIND A WAY OUT TO BRING HIM BACK TO OUR RELIGION.

 

TELL ME ONE THING HAVE JESSUS PERFORMED MIRACLES LIKE LORD KRISHNA DID. TAKING UP THE GOVARDHAN PARVAT, DANCING OVER KALIA THE NAG ARE JUST A FEW. WHY DONT YOU MENTION THESE THINGS TO YOUR SON. HE WILL DEFINITELY LISTEN.

 

AND IF NOTHING HAPPENS THEN YOU CAN TAKE THE HELP OF A HYPNOTIST WHO CAN HYPNOTISE HIM AND KICK THESE STUPID THOUGHTS FROM HIS MIND.

 

HAVE FAITH ON LORD KRISHNA AND HE WILL INDEED PERFORM MIRACLE ON YOUR SON.

[LaL]

any devotee of krishna knows that krishna sometimes tests us to see how true we are. i began getting into KC when i learned about the difference between the spiritual life and this material life. i am not a devotee myself but i am a third into the bhagavad-gita.

one of the first things i learned was that KC can not be forced onto someone. it's also true about your sons karma i guess. i am a year younger than your son and i know that when someone tries to force something on me, it pushes me further away. i can understand why you would want to force him to return to hinduism, but do you want to push him away?

i once listened to a talk given by a sanyasi, in the bhaktavidanta manor in watford, U.K. he is rusian and took to KC at the time when the KGB were in larger affect in russia. they had captured him one day and aparently threatened him and told him to leave this faith, forget KC. but instead, he thought, wow, this krishna must be something if KGB are doing this!

so you see, if you try to force your son, it may have such an affect.

someone mentioned the book, "perfect questions, perfect answers" this is a great book, i first read this then began the gita.

but maybe you could talk with your son calmly as someone suggested, and find out why he doesn't want to stay with hinduism. i didn't know much myself untill i started asking questions. but my parents haven't tought me much about krishna. what i know i have learned from other sources, such as the gita. maybe this is my karma.

but please whatever you do, don't force your son into anything.

...maybe he knows more about christianity than hinduism, or krishna!

 

hare krishna

[Sephiroth]

By abusing him physically or mentally, you will not change anything. He has no faith in Hindusm, so why force him to stay?

 

Is it because you think he will not take care of you after he become a Christian? Then you are selfish and thinking about yourself.

 

Leave him be ... let him walk his own path. If he makes it to God, that's his success. If he falls and lost his way, that is his mistake.

 

Forcing him to stay with his heart is afar only will make your own life miseable. It like forcing someone to love when he has no love.

[Guest guest]

hey guys,

 

 

jesus is not god, but his son! he never claimed to be god. he was vaisnava ! his burial cloth( the shroud of turin) revealed he was wearing tilak on his head. he taught a simplified version of vaishnavism to the barbaric meateaters of judea. jesus cannot deliver anyone from samsara if the are still eating flesh. jesus is the son of god mohhammed was his prophet and Krishna is god!

"Abandon all varieties of religion and surrender unto me,

i will deliver you from all sinful reactions"

 

GOVINDAM ADI PURUSHAM TAM AHAM BHAJAMI,

 

 

[Guest guest]

{his burial cloth( the shroud of turin) revealed he was wearing tilak on his head.}

 

I hope you know the shroud of Turin is false! Science has proved that the cloth is less than 1000 years old!

 

Alot of jesus' teachings are actually from Buddhism and some of his teachings resemble advaitic teachings as well as bhakti or devotion.

 

{jesus is the son of god mohhammed was his prophet and Krishna is god!}

 

Mohammed was the prophet of Krishna? *LOL* You need help!

 

[maadhav]

There is Sri Vasu Murthy, a Nuclear Scientist in Oalkand, CA.

He has done extensive research into Xian ancient - original - litierature, and has written a 1200 page report proving that Xianity originally in essence is a lot closer to vaishnavism, and the xians need to support us rather than compete with us with their changed and distorted original messages of jesus and his teachings. The book may not have been published yet, but I do not know about his where-about in recent years.

 

[Sephiroth]

There is Sri Vasu Murthy, a Nuclear Scientist in Oalkand, CA.

 

And what does a Nuclear Scientist doing with research in Theology? That is not his field.

 

Also, I don't see ANY similarities between Christianity and Vaishnavism. God don't have kids, remember.

[Guest guest]

Hi guys,

 

I understand your concern when someone of your family has converted to another religion. It can be a hard hit to anyone, but we need to see a bigger picture here. He is an adult and is aware of what he is doing and the consequences that follow a decision such as his. We are all under ONE God. I see a lot of people accusing Christians and Christ, but don't understand what they are really saying. We find bad and good in every religion because of what people have done to it, but that is not what Christ has said. Christ has commanded to spread the word but not by force. Now I know there are some who have brought on this false preception of Christianity and what Christ has said, but again that is the people not Christ himself. We need to understand the difference here and I would encourage research on what Christ is really about before making these accusations. Just want to clear the air with some comments related to Christ and Christianity. I am a Christian who is indian, but I always look into other relgions to have a better understanding of others and religions. Truth is one, but we need to all come to a place and believe in that one truth. Not for me to tell you that or anyone else, but it is an individual quest we all have to meet with God on. I would let him and God deal with this situation, seems the only right way. You can never tell someone what to believe in, its a matter of mind, body and soul which you cannot touch except God.

[Guest guest]

How can any other religions (especially eastern religions) respect christianity and accept that Jesus said the right things. Jesus has said that one can go to God only by his way. only by following him. And say that he is the son of god... how can we suppose to know whether he is telling the truth or not??? why would he say that the way to go to god is to go through him only??? Most of the western religions seem to have a narrow point of view, and say that their way is the ONLY WAY however eastern religion doesn't say that at all.

[Sephiroth]

We are all under ONE God. I see a lot of people accusing Christians and Christ, but don't understand what they are really saying.

 

I think we know exactly what we are saying.

 

The Bible you have now is hand-written in 11th to 12th Century by Romans in order to satisfy the masses. Christianity begins to sweep into Greek and in order to get the support of the mass, Christians modified the Bible and made Jesus as the son of the God. They used Roman God - Zeus as a model since Zeus was well-known at that time, cheif of Gods and also known to have children by having intercourse with human females. Popular demi-god like Hercules is one of this offspring.

 

So, when you say we are under one God, I disagree. As long as Christians follow the Bible which promote Zeus and his son, I don't think that is true for Zeus is NOT Yahweh which brought Jews out of Egypt.

 

And as long as Islam adds Jesus's foolish notions as part of its own heritage (in Al Quran), again, it shows that Islam is man-made which cannot differentiate between false and truth.

 

Therefore, Jews reject Christianity and Islam. I don't see why Hindus should be walking around saying they worship the same God as you do, unless you agree that your God is the Roman God, Zeus.

 

PS : Zeus's weapon is a thunder-bolt which he uses to strike his enemies down. Who in Hindusm who used Thunder bolt?

[Sephiroth]

When Moses brought the Laws to the people, the Laws stated that they are not to worship idols or mix (worshipping) with people who do not follow other ways.

 

However, the Laws didn't say that Judaism was the only way to God. Jews believed in reincarnation and that people outside Judaism, IF developed enough interest and love to God, then this people will be born among Jews and seek God. Therefore, Jews see non-Jewish as sort of not-ready to accept God sort of people.

 

However, when Christianity (and Islam) came about, they proclaimed that Christianity is for all and whoever do not accept it is damned. This was against Judaism and very narrow-in view.

[Guest guest]

when max mueller said that hinduism required a touch of christianity, i was at first offended. having gone to lengths now to understand what christianity is about, i would say max mueller was right. hinduism has gone rampant and few follow correctly, however as my christian friend pointed out, hindu's are probably the most moral people on earth, whereas christians are the most morally inept. i wish though that hindus could incorporate some christian understanding into their worship - basically communing with God on a daily basis - yes, communing. second thing would be giving oneself totally to God. Hindus might find this a little difficult, because we dont fear God, nor do we have an 'obligation to pay God', such as the Christians have.

 

the purpose of christ was to focus your attention. much like the buddah who set aside scriptures, he was required to do it the hard way. both christ and buddah diverted peoples attentions. now i understand fully the christian fundamental belief that you must receive christ as God, who died for our sins for we are all born sinners. few christians who understand the 'bigger picture' (mostly due to brainwashing, and narrow thought patterns) can actually force themselves to consider why christ said that. in a land during times when the romans ruled amonsgt gnostics, those performing witchcraft and also corrupt priests, it's no wonder to me he said he is 'the only way'. christ to me was a man who was a spiritual juggernaut. i dont believe he was God. as for statements saying he is God, he also said he was the son of man. perhaps my interpretation is not right, but then again, it doesnt stop me from knowing there are many indian gnostics who have achieved what christ had, including miracles. the bible is a history set in a certain time period regarding the prophet to come. sanathana dharma is a philosophy we must enact in our lives to know God, whether you call Him Brahman or Jehova. christians are practicing the hindu theory to reach where they are, whether they like that statement or not, it is true. in the end it doesnt really matter - only human speculation and selfish beliefs would lead a person to degrade anothers concept of who and what God is. it's funny that the persecuted have at times become the persecutors in that respect. and the weak christians have become the superior elitists with their very own self made theories on who and what God is - basically nothing but what it says in the Bible. oh yes, and dinosaurs never existed we musnt forget.

 

in regards to the topic, there's nothing wrong with your son being christian, but then again if he wants to be christian, put him in a church where there are TRUE christians. these are few and far between, because this monstorous establishment which we call the church is inwardly misled, and some people in it are somewhat stupid. id say the best christian is one who reads his or her bible at home alone, without outside influence, not going to any church. do it the individual hard way. maybe if he did that, he'd end up more hindu than he'd realise? would your son be willing to read his bible at home alone rather than going to church? most likely not. i dont know a great deal of christians who would, not for long anyway...

[Guest guest]

Please ask your son to read the attachment

 

Regards

 

Bhageerathi

[Sephiroth]

i wish though that hindus could incorporate some christian understanding into their worship - basically communing with God on a daily basis - yes, communing. second thing would be giving oneself totally to God. Hindus might find this a little difficult, because we dont fear God, nor do we have an 'obligation to pay God', such as the Christians have.

 

Christians themselves NEVER followed their own religion properly in the last 1,500 years, you are asking Hindus to incorporate it into Hindusm? Nonsense.

 

Take America for example - model of a great Christian nation.

 

1930s - America tried to ban Alcholol from the market - including making and consuming it. FAILED. The people continued to indulge in Alcholol.

 

1940s - America tried to discourage free sex and increase in porn-related materials. FAILED. The people indulged in sexual pleasures and porns increased.

 

1950s - America tried to discourage/ban Rock and Roll Music. Again FAILED. People simply never listen to anything.

 

1960s - 1970s - It's the people who tried to discourage War in America but the government never listened instead.

 

1980s - Free Sex comes to full swing - people have sex like it was something very natural to do, even coin up term "Make Love" rather than stating it is Lustful activity. Result - AIDS.

 

1990s - Christianity begin to fall. Atheism is on rise throughout America. America tries to fight back by pushing more and more money for conversion within and outside the country - Asia is the prime target.

 

 

Throughout the Ages, Christianity brought NOTHING to America, nor Europe. What did it bring to India?

 

And China? It brought Opium which poisoned and killed thousands by the same men who introduced Christianity to convert youths, who were taught to blame the mess onto the Rulers. When the youths attack the Rulers, this same war-mongers make deals with the Rulers to win a certain portion of the Land or some economic sanction in order to provide weapons to fight the youths. In the end, Atheism too over and Christianity BANNED.

 

In Japan - total ban of Christianity. Those who are Christians are exiled to a small island outside Kyoto and left to rot.

 

the purpose of christ was to focus your attention.

 

To what? Delusion that someone died for you so you can do WHATEVER you like? That sort of delusion is killed China, poisoning India, pushed the Europe to Dark Ages and killing America now.

 

[Guest guest]

america has alot of christians, but nobody in their right mind can claim that the US are models of christianity. if you ask me, tibetans make better christians than anyone else

 

now dont get me wrong, i dont mean hindus need to embrace christianity. it's a personal choice and for many with proper knowledge, an unecessary choice. what i mean is that there is an emphasis on particular aspects of knowing God which are not touched upon wih hinduism, and they are required for greater understanding of your relationship with God. i can say this because i put myself in a church purposefully to study and to know GOd in a different light, before rampantly judging and critisising other religions.

 

i dont really know any hindus that make an effort to commune with God constantly throughout the day. however i do know many hindus who make an effort to avoid eating meat, and yet they dont even know why. many hindus think the cow is godly....perhaps if you cant see where specific lines in practice of religion are required, then you will get my point. hinduism requires some sort of organisation so that people aren't making their own philosophical values up, which can easily occur in the coming century ahead.

 

as for your last line there, nobody particularly likes generalisations. however even though it would pain you, with a correct mind frame you must absorb and accept the teachings of jesus as you would those of krishna. it is what sanathana dharma is about. we are not secular in that respect. one truth doesnt over-ride another. the point of what im telling you is that you must view his teachings as seperate from the church, and perhaps seperate from this 'concept' of christianity. then it will be easier for you to understand the teachings of christ, which was soley to focus on God, and oppose incorrect action. i can say nothing about the whole martyr, resurrection, salvation, woe-is-me-for-i-am-persecuted trains of thought, because those are forced beliefs which christ never imposed on anyone. just keep in mind that while you have a cynical attitude towards the christian belief of resurrection, it's actual purpose is force one to open their heart to God. the greatest display of love is self sacrifice. it's a touching selling point i know, but try not to be so opposed to it. remember that the buddah once offerred to sacrifice his life for a goat, and even krishna displayed loving service to mankind, in his act of riding his devotees chariot in battle. hopefully this response is relevant.

[Guest guest]

Jesus is a huge metaphorical expression of most irrational, nonexplainable radical GRACE.

A young parents loose their loving 10 year old daughter when she was brutally killed by an 18 year old boy. The boy was caught by the police, he goes through all the legal processes and finally he is convicted. Typical parents feel good, they feel Justice is done. But this young parents tell the court they miss their girl badly but they can really make it up by forgiving and adopting this criminal as their own child and raise him in their loving family.This is Grace!!! Does this make any sense? Can any human being do such thing? God does that all the time, His power is in His weakness. Bible is a love story. Christ did not start a religion. His miracle is not raising some one from dead. The real miracle is his Grace, human freedom, we can do both Good and bad. There is Good and evil things in this world. God is not a superman or batman or Santa clause. He does not have BRAHMASTRA. He sacrificed His power for the sake of HUMAN FREEDOM, Why? That is the only way we understand what LOVE is. You do not have to believe what God says in Bible. You can call the book a hoax. That is exactly what He meant in giving freedom to you, There is no miracle, no mystery no Authority . If you do trust in this God, all you need is to say Thank you in gratitude. It is that simple. GOD LOVES ALL OF US.

[vmd]

Hey do not worry......

 

At least he is following the teaching of Jesus the representative of GOD.

 

But to make him really know the GOD directly, you must feed him only FOOD that is offered to KRSNA and let him chant "Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare" by doing this his understanding will become very clear and at same time he would follow sanatan dharma (Hinduism) with out any diffculty.

 

[Guest guest]

{what i mean is that there is an emphasis on particular aspects of knowing God which are not touched upon wih hinduism, and they are required for greater understanding of your relationship with God.}

 

{i dont really know any hindus that make an effort to commune with God constantly throughout the day.}

 

In case you didn't know there are Hindu sects that already do this, especially from the Vaishnava tradition. The Hare Krishna group is well known for this that their critics think they are 'christian in organisation and have just replaced christ with Krishna.

 

{hinduism requires some sort of organisation so that people aren't making their own philosophical values up, which can easily occur in the coming century ahead.}

 

I understand this and there will be problems in the future for Hindus between those who follow a tradition/sect/scriptures and those who do not follow anything yet claim to be Hindus. As a matter of fact that's already happening. You have some clueless individuals born in Hindu families who think Hinduism has nothing to teach, and just consists of rituals and festivals. You can only blame them and their community for letting these things happen.

 

 

 

[Sephiroth]

america has alot of christians, but nobody in their right mind can claim that the US are models of christianity. if you ask me, tibetans make better christians than anyone else

 

George Bush is claiming America is a Christian nation, and that "god" told him to make war against Muslims. Is he in a right state of mind? To you - No, but to many people in the world (including Christians) - YES. So who is correct here?

 

what i mean is that there is an emphasis on particular aspects of knowing God which are not touched upon wih hinduism, and they are required for greater understanding of your relationship with God.

 

What particular aspect of knowing God which is NOT touched by Hindusm, may I ask?

 

I think ONLY in the Gita did it say that a devotee could reach God by showing love to Him as if a parent loves a Child, a lover loves Another, or like a person who looks at others as Parents. ONLY in Hindusm and ONLY in the Gita have I heard such. NO WHERE else. So what aspect do you think is missing? I don't see any.

 

i can say this because i put myself in a church purposefully to study and to know GOd in a different light, before rampantly judging and critisising other religions.

 

What other "light" do we supposed to look at Christianity and Jesus?

 

Jews rejected Jesus because his claims of being "son" of a god is FALSE - Yahweh is Eternal, and therefore, do not NEED a Son or a Daughter.

 

Jews rejected Jesus of being a "god" becaiuse it is FALSE. Yahweh is Eternal - cannot be born, die or reborn again. He exists and capable of existing and diminishing at Will.

 

Jews rejected Jesus born to be sacrificed for Original Sins because Jews have been performing the celebration of Circimstance to Male child since times of Abraham so God do not need to send ANYONE to die for them. If God thinks the Circimstance is not capable of retricfying the Original Sins, He couldn't have to wait for nearly 1,000 years to send Jesus to inform the people.

 

All this shows that Jesus (assuming existed) was NOT part of Jewish Tradition. He was making it up as he goes along and Paul who rewrote the Bible added Jesus as god that was sacrificed to his own creation.

 

however i do know many hindus who make an effort to avoid eating meat, and yet they dont even know why.

 

Hmph ... you make it sound like Hindus are some backwater, cave-dwellers. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

For your information, Bub ... Hindus ARE the World's FIRST Nutrilogists - experts in Food and Nutrients. They ARE the first to discover that food you eat have effect on your body and mentality by observing Nature and animals.

 

Herbivores usually do not eat meat and take vegetations. They have seen its calm nature. Carnoviroes eat meat and they have seen its ruthless nature as well. So they formulated theory that, meat-eaters have "fiery" nature which they require to hunt and kill without remorse. They also formulated that in order to reach God (who they viewed as Compassionate, Loving and Graceful), they need Calmness, Love and Compassionate themselves so partake non-meat food.

 

Of course, some members of the society who requires ruthfulness and skills to hunt and kill (like Kyastrias) are allowed to eat meat.

 

however even though it would pain you, with a correct mind frame you must absorb and accept the teachings of jesus as you would those of krishna. it is what sanathana dharma is about.

 

IF I want to absorb anything, I could absorb Jewish Tradition, NOT foolishness of Jesus and his god-claims. And for your information, I'm someone who studies Kaballah, so trust me ... there is NO place in the Creation and Working of the World for Jesus. He is just a monkey with a wrench.

 

just keep in mind that while you have a cynical attitude towards the christian belief of resurrection, it's actual purpose is force one to open their heart to God.

 

THIS is kind of idiocy that I meant - WHAT do you meant by FORCING one to open their hearts to God? SINCE WHEN do one "Lover" force ANYTHING toward another in name of Love? That is NOT LOVE, that is RAPE.

 

If a Parents force a Child to obey them, the Child WILL become weak and lack of skills to take care him/herself and make decisions.

 

If one spouse force another to obey him/her blindly, the forced spouse will become weak and pressured, and in many cases, emotionally scarred to speak out.

 

If a parents are too weak to make any decision for their youngsters, the youngsters will become weak and indecisive in anything, thus he or she will look for someone who is strong to cover for his or her weakness and the process of abuse continous in a new cycle.

 

THIS IS NOT LOVE, THIS IS ABUSE. You cannot differentiate between LOVE and ABUSE?

 

Even Jews who have God who are very unforgiving in His Nature, do not pressure their children to obey God blindly. They teach their children that, the purpose of Existence is to strive for perfection and if a child do not achieve that perfection, God will give a second or third chance at it (His Mercy).

 

the greatest display of love is self sacrifice.

 

Here's a deal - your breaking point of your so-called "Selling Point". WHAT sacrifice do Christians MADE in the past 2,000 years?

 

You said Buddha willing to sacrifice himself for a goat ... I remember he cut a flesh of his tight and gave it to an Eagle so it could spare a sparrow. You said Sri Krishna showed His sacrifice by being in War.

 

And following their examples, many Buddhists have renounce the World and took up living as Monks where they pray for their society. Many Hindus like Gandhi came out from reading and following the Gita and the world is better place because of them.

 

What do Christians sacrifice for the world? The act of Priesthood is NOT even Christian ritual, it is practise of a Christian named Mani in 3rd Century A.D who renounced the World and lived in the desert.

 

As a Christian, what do you do for the World? Christians went across the Ocean and destroyed the Incas and Mayans. Christians came to India and corrupted Hindusm and they went to China and destroyed the nation. Christians DID NOTHING for the world.

[Guest guest]

sorry for stepping on your toes sephiroth, didnt mean to alarm you or insult your ego. lets look at this:

 

"George Bush is claiming America is a Christian nation, and that "god" told him to make war against Muslims. Is he in a right state of mind? To you - No, but to many people in the world (including Christians) - YES. So who is correct here?"

 

the original reason you bought up the american nation was to give an example of how christians never practiced their religion over the past however-many years, to which my response was that tibetans probably make better christians than americans. that they view islam as an 'enemy' is no better reason for us to agree, so i dont see anything here to complain about except the number of morons that exist out in the world today.

 

"What particular aspect of knowing God which is NOT touched by Hindusm, may I ask?"

 

the aspects, (or should i say emphasis), on the fact that there is one and one God only, who both personal and impersonal. sure we can refer to many sources to find that this statement is expanded on; but pick up any *common* book on hinduism and you will find mny references to the demigods, or the trinity. such a contrast does not exist in christian material, where correct views are set in stone, meaning noone gets caught in this trap of following the wrong thing (or if you pick up a jewish book, you will find the parallel argument). a person can live many years practicing hinduism and yet not fully go beyond the concepts behind and much of the deeper knowledge there is to find in hinduism. my personal observation is that few hindus transgress beyond hinduism, and into sanathana dharma.

 

there is also an emphasis on listening to the holy spirit / atman. i found very little information on this. once again, it might be there somewhere in hinduism, but why is it so difficult to find? especially for the beginner. the only references ive found to this are by yogananda, who studied the bible. the reason why i complain about this is, because it adds all the more reason for the christian to segregate, to convert, to disparage and to confuse. it gives a valid reason to say hindus are lacking in some respect. vivekananda did say that christians must be ready for critisism, and perhaps so should we be ready for it, for the betterment of our own faith in ways that will improve us.

 

"What other "light" do we supposed to look at Christianity and Jesus?"

 

i said that i put myself in a church to study God in a different light. i did not say that i put myself in a church to study christianity, to convert, nor did i say i sold out to the church itself. ive always maintained im a hindu, and ive stayed there and exhausted all their efforts for more than a year. who else has the balls to do the same? my goal was this:

a) to understand the bible and what its value was

b) to be open minded enough to carry along the same line of actions undertaken by figureheads such as gandhi, vivekananda, yogananda, who all experienced before they judged.

how can i say hinduism is better or worse than christianity / judaism / catholicism...until ive studied, lived and breathed it from their point of view? if st frances of asini or jesus was a gnostic master like our yogis then what is it that they are doing? we can only discriminate when we've seen both sides. ive read all manner of opinions on who and what jesus & christianity is, heard all sorts of things, and to be honest i care for none. you can type essays which isnt going to leave me any better or worse at all. if you want to envelope yourself in further theories and debates to insult other people's faith, then a good book for you is 'crucifixtion of truth' by tony bushby. im sure you will enjoy it.

 

"Hmph ... you make it sound like Hindus are some backwater, cave-dwellers."

 

well i hope not. i was thinking along the lines of those who think the cow, or rats, or etc etc are godly. i understand the importance of the vegetarian diet, the affect it has on the mind, as well as the ideal of ahimsa, and atman in all beings - from plant to human. i dont however see much reason in temples where people worship rats, or with cultural traditions that have ingrained themself into the religion like strangling weeds. im sure you would have met, or heard about at least, a hindu who did not eat meat because they thought the cow was holy. the cow is revered, yes, for its agricultural importance throughout history, but nothing more. many common, well educated hindu's i know, have similar 'backward' views which are nonesense to me. we might as well say, as madhav put it once, that christians worship the easter bunny...

 

"IF I want to absorb anything, I could absorb Jewish Tradition, NOT foolishness of Jesus and his god-claims."

 

im not that familiar with jewish religion, kabbalah, or even with islam, so i cant comment much. from my understanding and what ive learnt, there is the obvious emphasis on the coming of the messiah and much less on jehova God of the jews. i also dont agree that jesus was God. never saw it that way, never experienced that way, never will. an incarnation perhaps? but theres not alot that says to me his is the ultimate.

 

 

 

"THIS IS NOT LOVE, THIS IS ABUSE. You cannot differentiate between LOVE and ABUSE?

 

you remind me of adam sandler telling the golf ball it was too good for its home.

 

 

"Even Jews who have God who are very unforgiving in His Nature, do not pressure their children to obey God blindly. They teach their children that, the purpose of Existence is to strive for perfection and if a child do not achieve that perfection, God will give a second or third chance at it (His Mercy)."

 

in context to the original point, i made the statement about forcing one to open their hearts in order to *explain to you the purpose of ressurection*, specifically. i added afterwards: "i can say nothing about the whole martyr, resurrection, salvation, woe-is-me-for-i-am-persecuted trains of thought, because those are forced beliefs which christ never imposed on anyone.". perhaps a better sentence should have been "the concept of his resurrection is a method for christians to understand the involvement of God in jesus's action". i think maybe i should reitorate that i dont care much for the christian movement, but i do care to live and breath in the same vein as yogananda and vivekananda - having learnt to discriminate as well as absorb the bible alongside their own scriptures.

 

"Here's a deal - your breaking point of your so-called "Selling Point". WHAT sacrifice do Christians MADE in the past 2,000 years?"

 

ive always thought it's difficult to separate a correct study of the bible, from the teachings of the church itself. i guess this is a prime example. a so-called 'true christian' (of which there are few, as they are normally the product of a McChurch) would not fall prey to inaction, or pointless action. the theory, remember, is that religion followed correctly should concur with sanathana dharma. all roads lead to the same path. a true christian should, in an unselfish manner, work for the betterment of mankind and God for service, their actions should be dedicated to God.

 

"As a Christian, what do you do for the World? Christians went across the Ocean and destroyed the Incas and Mayans. Christians came to India and corrupted Hindusm and they went to China and destroyed the nation. Christians DID NOTHING for the world."

 

who said i was christian? sanathana dharma is open for the understanding of all the worlds religions. which method works best for you, or did you not understand the point? open your mind a bit further and let go of the prejudice. your proximity to God will show with how positive or negative your mentality becomes. if all you care about is material arguments, theories, philosophies and all the rest, and you dont care for the Word (no matter where it's from) - then what use have you made of your own mind? you're beginning to sound alot like a puppet yourself. practice what you learn, it all comes down to improving yourself for a closer relationship with God. that is why we are on the earth, to recognise our purpose. you can make yourself the best debater against christianity in the world, but all of that knowledge certainly doesnt make you a better hindu, if it's filled with the hatred Krishna very much opposes.

 

good luck.

[Sephiroth]

the original reason you bought up the american nation was to give an example of how christians never practiced their religion over the past however-many years, to which my response was that tibetans probably make better christians than americans.

 

I say "Christians NEVER practise their religion" and you say "Tibetans PROBABLY make better Christians".

 

Main difference here is - I deal with FACTS, you deal with fairy tale. We are speaking in two different language here.

 

that they view islam as an 'enemy' is no better reason for us to agree, so i dont see anything here to complain about except the number of morons that exist out in the world today.

 

One correction - Christians ARE the enemy, just as Muslims are. Only different is, Muslims must be dealt with, with more urgency than Christians. Christianity is dying and if Hindus hold on to their beliefs a little longer, Christianity will die by rotting itself out. Islam on the other hand is a perfect tool for terrorism - it doesn't only utilize terror toward its enemies, it utilize fear and damnation of its followers if they choose peace. Such approach makes it VERY dangerous.

 

So, don't think Christians and Hindus are friends because they have common enemy. Christians are enemies of Hindus and Hindus should understand that Christians CAN work together with Muslims if they choose to. So enemy's enemy is never your friend in this case.

 

the aspects, (or should i say emphasis), on the fact that there is one and one God only, who both personal and impersonal.

 

Go and read Bhavagad Gita and see if it is not mentioned there. If it doesn't, I WILL cut my right hand. If it did, you CUT your right hand. What you say? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

my personal observation is that few hindus transgress beyond hinduism, and into sanathana dharma.

 

Mind explaining what is Hindusm and what is Sanathana Dharma? Till I have came to this website, I have never heard ANYONE use such terms and separate Hindusm with another word.

 

there is also an emphasis on listening to the holy spirit / atman. i found very little information on this. once again, it might be there somewhere in hinduism, but why is it so difficult to find?

 

That because you do not listen to any "spirits". Such practise is not part of Hindusm. Atman is the SOUL. Hindusm teachs Hindus to listen to their Soul and live a proper life, NOT listen to some "holy spirit" and act holy themselves (like what Christians doing).

 

the only references ive found to this are by yogananda, who studied the bible.

 

Then Yogananda is false. Anyone who uses non-Hindu scriptures (like Bible and Al Quran) to emphasize Hindusm should be treated as false "prophets".

 

vivekananda did say that christians must be ready for critisism, and perhaps so should we be ready for it, for the betterment of our own faith in ways that will improve us.

 

Come back and criticise about Hindus willing to accept criticism from Christians when Christians have learn to accept Critism from others. Don't teach others if you do not know how to do it yourself. It is called being Hypocrite.

 

Right now, Christians are deaf when comes to listening to other people's words. Like Bush and his government deaf when the WHOLE world suggested not to attack Iraq. Never mind that because Saddam got what he deserves.

 

But when Japan suggested and implemented Kyoto Treaty as guideline to environmental problems, again, Christians do not listen because Japan was not a Christian country.

 

Vaticans kept sending idiots to India to convert Hindus and become deaf about people's critism of its pastors' sexual problems. It even take out-side court approach to solve the problem - just like the Mafia. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

... ive always maintained im a hindu, ...

 

I don't see anything Hindu about you. Hindus do not go into Church and become traitors to hands who feed them. It is not accordance to Kyastria's code of conduct. Do you remember what curse Sri Krishna gave to Aswathan for commiting such cowardly act at end of Kurushekta battle?

 

The very fact that you admit you are in a Church to exhaust their "effects" shows that you are traitor to those who feed and love you - even so they are the enemy. In my understanding, anyone who willing to backstab the hand who feeds him (for WHATEVER reasons) WILL backstab you when he or she have a chance.

 

Hindus DO NOT need to resort to such cowardly actions and still call themselves Hindus and devotees to their Lord. ONLY those who follow adharmic ways will resort to such tactics.

 

how can i say hinduism is better or worse than christianity / judaism / catholicism...until ive studied, lived and breathed it from their point of view?

 

Hmph ... same as a person asking how he knows a theif look like till he becomes one or how a person knows about a prostitute till s/he prostitutes him/herself. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Here's a tip from Judaism - LIVE a proper Life and strive to become perfect devotee/followers. Everything else will be known to you.

 

You do not need to live imperfect lives to experience imperfection and adharma. Even if you did, then you still have NO RIGHT to say what is Dharma and what is not Adharma because you are adharmic, NOT Dharma follower.

 

For example, a man becomes a theif to know how theives behave and feel. After that, he still have no rights to say to a policeman whether the police man is righteous or not because, whether he is stealing or not, he is still a theif. Same with you, if become traitor to help Hindusm (good attention) but in the end, you are Christian - not a Hindu because you are in Christian territory and knows nothing of Hindusm. What you know is just confused knowledge of what you think of Hindusm is.

 

im sure you would have met, or heard about at least, a hindu who did not eat meat because they thought the cow was holy. the cow is revered, yes, for its agricultural importance throughout history, but nothing more. many common, well educated hindu's i know, have similar 'backward' views which are nonesense to me.

 

Whether Hindus believe in Cows' to be holy or not, it doesn't matter. If modern Hindus do not believe cows are holy, that still doesn't give them the OK to eat it, right? That is important here, not whether Cows are holy or not.

 

As for those who believe rats are sacred ... I heard of it and frankly speaking, never came across any texts which says so. It will be Hindus (like Maadhav) to go and educate the people on what is Hindusm and what is ignorant.

 

from my understanding and what ive learnt, there is the obvious emphasis on the coming of the messiah and much less on jehova God of the jews. i also dont agree that jesus was God. never saw it that way, never experienced that way, never will. an incarnation perhaps? but theres not alot that says to me his is the ultimate.

 

Yeah ... Jews (like Hindus) are expecting Messiah (the Messanger) to come, brings peace and reestablish Jews in the Promised Land (back to Jerusalem, not the whole world like what Christians and Muslims daydreams). Matter a fact, the main reasons why Jews do not accept Jesus and Muhammad was because both of them taught Violent toward non-believers in their teaching which was against Judaism.

 

As for emphasizing on Jenovah/God ... those who interested in it can learn by studying Kaballah (which is done by only certain, selected individuals in the society). Other than that, they are just required to live their lives as perfect as possible.

 

i think maybe i should reitorate that i dont care much for the christian movement, but i do care to live and breath in the same vein as yogananda and vivekananda - having learnt to discriminate as well as absorb the bible alongside their own scriptures.

 

Why don't you just come out and say you only care to know whatever you thin is Hindusm by taking words of Yogananda and Vivekanda who were humans, not gods themselves. If you want to know about God, do and read the Vedas and Gita, not words of corrupted minds due to influence of corruptions like the Bible.

 

the theory, remember, is that religion followed correctly should concur with sanathana dharma. all roads lead to the same path.

 

Wrong ... not all leads to the same path. And no, Christianity is not concur with Sanathana Dharma. That is your illusion for being in Christians' midst.

 

who said i was christian?

 

Didn't you said early that you have put yourself in a church to study Christianity? That makes you a Christian.

 

sanathana dharma is open for the understanding of all the worlds religions. which method works best for you, or did you not understand the point?

 

I thought Santana Dharma is about beliefs of Vedic land. I'm very such some Hindus (like Maadhav) will not want to add Christianity and Islam into Santana Dharma. By doing so, what you do is actually forgetting the evilness that exists within this false religions and forgetting who your enemies are. if you do that, you might as well throw your Gita into fire and buldozer down your temples yourself.

 

Like what Tibetans did with remains of Buddhist monks in 1950s just before China entered Tibet. They collected the remains (who continues to meditate for the sake of their people) and gave them a proper cremations, rather than allow invaders to come and descerate their loved ones.

 

practice what you learn, it all comes down to improving yourself for a closer relationship with God. that is why we are on the earth, to recognise our purpose. you can make yourself the best debater against christianity in the world, but all of that knowledge certainly doesnt make you a better hindu, if it's filled with the hatred Krishna very much opposes.

 

First of all, no one said I was a Hindu. Secondly, a Kyastria is not necessary a Hindu - there are Kyastrias in the Knights and Samurais in Japan as well as in China.

 

Lastly, your approach and mine is different. You live in state of delusion because you are with Christians and their foolishness is rubbing onto you, which is why you are considering Christians and Muslims as friends. That is foolish notion of Love, with goal of leaving the world and going to some lala land.

 

Me? I look at them as enemies to conquer, but NOT with hatred. This is Duty and Responsibility approach. My goal - to live and perform duty and responsibility, not day dream about heaven and some lala land. God didn't give life so you could waste it by day dreaming about coming back to Him emptyhanded and by ignoring your duties.

 

Only one of us are walking toward God ... and I doubt it is you. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

christianity is just about controll over europe........as Lord krishna says to Arjun, Sac Sic Anand, There Is No Other Way, There Is No Other Way, There Is No Other Way....

[Guest guest]

"I say "Christians NEVER practise their religion" and you say "Tibetans PROBABLY make better Christians".

Main difference here is - I deal with FACTS, you deal with fairy tale. We are speaking in two different language here."

 

we are both dealing with facts here, however im dealing with what is spiritually correct. you are dealing with realistic and fatalistic views on the current world situation.

 

"So, don't think Christians and Hindus are friends because they have common enemy. Christians are enemies of Hindus and Hindus should understand that Christians CAN work together with Muslims if they choose to. So enemy's enemy is never your friend in this case."

 

Have you been reading the ‘48 laws of power’? fair enough, like i said, i know next to nothing about islam besides what the media constantly portrays. for me to make any sort of judgement is likely to be a misconception of correct practice and truth. It would be as shallow as me calling you a little fat boy perched behind his fathers laptop. i wouldnt like anyone to judge my religion with a wrong view, so why should i be party to it? Unless you are contentious in nature…. ive never read the koran, ive never been taught by a muslim, nor have i been in a mosque.

 

a politician here denounced muslims the other day and they had a protest against him. in response to the protest, the politician announced that it was about time muslims stopped protecting their own, and started helping to stop those who are causing violence. that is a view that i agree with for today's situation. this is dharma. but this is the work of politicians, the police, and the army. im not any of those.

 

"Go and read Bhavagad Gita and see if it is not mentioned there. If it doesn't, I WILL cut my right hand. If it did, you CUT your right hand. What you say?"

 

i've read the bhagavad gita, but what about the common person who picks up some book, say, such as 'dummies guide to hinduism' or something along those lines? this is my point. go and put a bandaid on your hand.

 

"Mind explaining what is Hindusm and what is Sanathana Dharma? Till I have came to this website, I have never heard ANYONE use such terms and separate Hindusm with another word."

 

today's world seems to view 'hinduism' as some sort of massive combination of this or that. rituals are performed, there are many gods who represent the different aspects of brahman, there are a couple of epics, we dont eat meat, yadda yadda. religion. sanathana dharma, is more a study of the mind, or philosophies concerning the vedanta portion. i guess there is a bit of a difference, depending on how technical you like to get.

 

"That because you do not listen to any "spirits". Such practise is not part of Hindusm. Atman is the SOUL. Hindusm teachs Hindus to listen to their Soul and live a proper life, NOT listen to some "holy spirit" and act holy themselves (like what Christians doing)."

 

fair enough, but some saints do talk about 'hearing', do they not? the inner witness, the inner voice, is basically the holy spirit / atman. different words for the same thing. Anyone of any sort of distinction with the ability to concentrate and excel can use their atman. A sportsperson listens to their inner voice to push themselves harder. The philosopher uses his inner voice to expound truths. What matters is the correct usage, and distinction between simple layers of consciousness as opposed to atman itself. im not sure i always agree with correct usage of it. hindus experience 3 types of mystical experiences, whereas christians experience only 1 type. however, jesus was a yogi, and christian saints are said to be capable of healing. how are they doing it?

 

"Then Yogananda is false. Anyone who uses non-Hindu scriptures (like Bible and Al Quran) to emphasize Hindusm should be treated as false "prophets"."

 

i wouldnt take anyone justifying our religion using other scriptures too seriously either, however it does show how accurate Vedanta is, to be able to have application in other religions and come off more than second best...i dont know where you are from, but i live in a western country, comparison is inevitable, and knowledge to defend your own religion from the conversionists is important.

 

"It is not accordance to Kyastria's code of conduct. Do you remember what curse Sri Krishna gave to Aswathan for commiting such cowardly act at end of Kurushekta battle?"

 

ashwathamma as i remember killed an unborn child. we are not kyshatria's either, i dont think we should be flattering ourselves with such a title. prabhupada stated in this era, we are one and all sudras rank. if you are coming from the p.o.v that your personal traits are that of a kyshatria, then you may have guessed my traits are different from yours, therefore so would the punishment be for me doing 'wrong', as opposed to you. Also remember kyshatria trait is honour also, evident even in duryodhana. In other words, be a gentleman, in deed and in speech, even if your duty is to 'kill the enemy'.

 

"In my understanding, anyone who willing to backstab the hand who feeds him (for WHATEVER reasons) WILL backstab you when he or she have a chance."

 

dont quite get what you mean...my time in the church hasnt been any sort of ride through a rainbow. im not naive or stupid enough to place myself there ready and ripe like a spring chicken, for conversion. if it helps in view of your 'kyshatria' code, i was also doing duty towards a friend by promising to stay and learn for a year. there is the massive task also that i wanted to gather material after reading ed viswanath's text 'am i a hindu', in order to be better able to refute biased christian arguments, to see what it is also that they really do, as well as gain further spiritual knowledge than what I already know. in my home, knowledge of God of any format is a blessing to be received, which is why im happy to take part in a church. conversion is not an ideal though that we believe in, which is what ive made clear, and a reason why im not 'one of them'. It’s better to live in an uncomfortable place and remember your values, then rot in your own complacency. This time in church has also been a personal battle against injustice, from things ive seen, however I respect the message in the bible, and I respect other people, we all have atman, we came from Brahman. Not everything is against truth there.

 

"Hindus DO NOT need to resort to such cowardly actions and still call themselves Hindus and devotees to their Lord. ONLY those who follow adharmic ways will resort to such tactics."

 

then please, will you kindly come to my country and start a hindu foundation? the last few times i checked, we have NO hindu groups at all. the closest you will come is an indian church! here's another two band-aids, one for your hand, another for your ego. You are using the word tactic which leads me to believe you are more into the whole strategy / warfare thing. I might be wrong , but you should not be reading gita, rather studying the autobiography of bruce lee and performing wing chun martial arts.

 

"Hmph ... same as a person asking how he knows a theif look like till he becomes one or how a person knows about a prostitute till s/he prostitutes him/herself. You do not need to live imperfect lives to experience imperfection and adharma. Even if you did, then you still have NO RIGHT to say what is Dharma and what is not Adharma because you are adharmic, NOT Dharma follower.”

 

valid point, ill remember that.

 

" What you know is just confused knowledge of what you think of Hindusm is."

 

then ill tell you I finished the puranas by the age 10, read the epics countless times, my small library has books about yoga sutras of pantanjali, upanishads, to essays on concepts of metaphysical hindu knowledge. ive meditated for a year in accordance to the way it's been described in the gita. if that isnt in depth study into hinduism, please tell me what is? should i impart to you a mythical story on how ganesh lost his tusk? Hinduism is not a ‘belief’, it is the purest knowledge, and the path to truth, everyone in the world follows it in some application, however small or large.

 

" If modern Hindus do not believe cows are holy, that still doesn't give them the OK to eat it, right? That is important here, not whether Cows are holy or not."

 

yes you're right.

 

"Why don't you just come out and say you only care to know whatever you thin is Hindusm by taking words of Yogananda and Vivekanda who were humans, not gods themselves. If you want to know about God, do and read the Vedas and Gita, not words of corrupted minds due to influence of corruptions like the Bible."

 

depends on what is better? that i guide and follow the scriptures based on my own human understanding, or take a somewhat valid source to expand on them. Besides, Vivekananda works are far from corrupt. if i was left to my own devices, i might take chapter 10 of the gita to be literal. what if i was confused over what it was that arjuna saw and what the virat roop actually was? Have you any idea that the names of all the characters in the Mahabharata depict particular psychological conditions? Where does that leave my spiritual / martial knowledge and interpretation? the battle is not between mortals, the battle in the gita is between correct and incorrect action. In the middle of nowhere. where would i find answers to such information? anyway, enough of defending myself here. i can judge by your mentality that you dont follow much of the gita yourself. there doesnt seem to be much equanimity of mind, but an inflamed tamasic ego that requires bed-rest and some strawberry yoghurt..

 

" And no, Christianity is not concur with Sanathana Dharma."

 

think about action, inaction, etc. if you agree then congrats, if you cant or dont want to, then there's nothing I can do. i might, as you say, be in some sort of la la fantasy land.

 

"Didn't you said early that you have put yourself in a church to study Christianity? That makes you a Christian."

 

christian is one who is baptised, and accepts jesus as the only path to God. i dont fall into those categories. i have lived in a western country for more than 20 years. doesnt necessarily make me western at heart. I have more reasons to despise Christians than reasons to like them, but that’s not my focus or my mindframe. Accusations and inflammatory comments, even at the ‘enemy’ though, aren’t exactly good ways to practice religion

 

"I thought Santana Dharma is about beliefs of Vedic land. I'm very such some Hindus (like Maadhav) will not want to add Christianity and Islam into Santana Dharma. By doing so, what you do is actually forgetting the evilness that exists within this false religions and forgetting who your enemies are. if you do that, you might as well throw your Gita into fire and buldozer down your temples yourself."

 

then perhaps ive been reading yogananda and vivekandanda for too long? perhaps i dont know what is the 'movement' in india. i dont know. i wasnt born during partition. My hate is solely on improper action, and hindu’s themselves are just as subject to it as anyone else. There are a number of idiots out there in the world that happen to contribute to the worldpool mass of morons. They need to be flushed down into the ocean, and farted out into the universe. Don’t become one of them, at least not on this board. With your personality, you should be helping the community, not being a hindrance.

 

"Me? I look at them as enemies to conquer, but NOT with hatred. This is Duty and Responsibility approach. My goal - to live and perform duty and responsibility, not day dream about heaven and some lala land. God didn't give life so you could waste it by day dreaming about coming back to Him emptyhanded and by ignoring your duties. Only one of us are walking toward God ... and I doubt it is you."

 

“Only one of us are walking toward God ... and I doubt it is you”. Ironic, since that statement would only be ignorant enough to pour from a common christian’s mouth. fyi, i dont believe in heaven, and i dont like doctrine. if you care to see what my view of the christians are at the church, then a good place to start is by reading the lyrics to the song 'intolerance' by the band Tool. that your personal duty is to weed out injustice, weild a sword, practice the wax-on wax-off miyagi technique or cut banzai trees is admirable. my own personal duty to God, is to help those around me, when i can, as a service to Him. this includes correcting wrong views to bring people closer to proper practice. perhaps you've done your duty for me by telling me ive been too lenient, and hopefully ive done my duty for you, in some way. if your version of religion is segregation, even amongst our own? Then who will be there to hold God's world together, when your little personal war is finished? if you figure yourself some sort of Zen samurai, then all the luck to you. you'd be better off studying Buddhism.. all i will say is that your enemies dont always exist out there in the world, they exist also in your own mind. lust, wrath, avarice – the most difficult enemies of all. Our bodies are mortal, but these effects on our ego are not. since we are talking about hinduism as opposed to christianity now, then i hope you wont mind this little hindu asking yourself to realise what your purpose here is - when duty is done with purity & no selfish intent, in a manner that indicates you are neither wasting or misusing your energy in action, or accumulating 'ego' points over your own soul, then you'd have earnt your place in moksha. there is no excuse for rampant behaviour from anyone, hindu, muslim, Christian. The only birthright we have is service to God.

 

Good luck.