Demi God-Stop mis-interpretation of Bhagavad Geetha

[Guest guest]

7.20 kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah prapadyante 'nya devatah

 

"Those whose intelligence has been stolen (hrta-jnanah) due to lust (kamaih) surrender unto demigods (anya-devatah)***"

 

This is the English translation of 7.20 verse of Geetha.Now we all know English.In all our indian languages we know what is the meaning of "anya". Anya means foerign.Now why has that been translated as "demi god"?It should have been translated as "alien god".Why do you HK guys translate it as "demi-god" and mis interpret Geetha?

 

Why did Krishna call other gods as "anya devatha"?I will give his words and their meaning.

 

"Those whose intelligence has been stolen (hrta-jnanah) due to lust (kamaih) surrender unto alien gods (anya-devatah)***"

 

"Those who are devotees of demigods (anya-devata) and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way (avidhi-purvakam)."

 

"Abandon all varities of religion and just surrender unto Me. I will deliver you from all sinful reactions, do not fear."

 

Here is Hk's excuse for this mis interpretation of anya devatha into demigod.

 

Lord Krishna tells in 10.2 'aham adir hi devanam' -- that "He is the origin of all the devatas", and in 10.8 'aham sarvasya prabhavo...' -- that "He is the origin of everything!", also Arjuna says in 10.15 'deva deva...' -- "Indeed you are the God of Gods", and in 11.38 'tvam adi-deva' -- that "you are the origin of all Gods", and also in 11.38 'purusah puranah' that "He is the primeval Person", etc. which PROVES beyond doubt that Krishna/Vishnu is infact the ONLY God and rest are all demigods ie. subordinate to Him (Krishna).

 

So Hk's claim that Krishna himself called as superior to all devathas.....and so all other devathas are demigods to krishna.Read the above said paragraph again.Where has Krishna said that all other gods are inferior to him?Nowhere.He has said that he is the "originator of all devathas" and "origin of everything".

 

What did he mean by this?Advaithis say that Nirguna Bhramman is the originator of all devathas which are nothing but Nirguna bhramman himself.Krishna or vishnu is one such name of the Nirguna Bhramman.Shiva too is another name.Parasakthi or mother parvathi too is another name of this Nirguna Bhramman.Krishna is a suguna bhramman.Nirguna bhramman coming as suguna bhramman.He is talking to a man who is caught by avidya-arjuna.He has to reveal himself to arjuna.So he says "I am origin of everything,I am the originator af all forms of gods".Where does inferiority of other gods come here?It is sugunabhramman stating his nirguna bhramman stage to arjuna.

 

Why did Krishna say "dont worship alien gods?"

 

He dint say "Dont worship alien gods".He said "Those who are devotees of demigods (anya-devata) and who worship

them with faith actually worship only Me,, O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way (avidhi-purvakam)."

 

What does Krishna mean here?he doesnt say "Dont worship alien gods.He said 'dont worship alien gods IN A WRONG WAY".This means that you can worship alien gods in a right way.But who is an alien god?Let me clarify that.

 

Rig veda says "anya deva sow,sow"meaning that "one who worships a god alien to him is as naive as a cow".So this is what Krishna too says.Dont worship a god thinking that it is alien to you.Worship it as thinking that it is you.Dont feel alien.Feel it as you.So if you worship even Krishna thinking that he is alien to you,Even Krishna is an alien god.

 

And also see how he attacks dwaidhis.""Those whose intelligence has been stolen (hrta-jnanah) due to

lust (kamaih) surrender unto demigods (anya-devatah)***"

 

Only dwaidhis see god as different from them and surrender to alien gods(any god-including krishna).They live in perpetual fear since they feel other things as different from them.Dwaidhis have fear,happiness,lust everything.So to escape from fear they surrender to anya devatha(any god-including krishna).

 

I am not saying dwaidhis in the meaning of those who follow madvacharya.I say dwaidhis by the entire population of the world including advaithis,muslims,christians,saivites,vaishnavites etc.Only advaithin jnanis who have realised themselves are exception.Every man is in dwaidhic stage.Very few reach the advaithic stage.So here Krishna laughs at these dwaidhis.Even advaithis start as dwaidhis.So this list covers them too.

 

Krishna only calls such people as "people whose intelligence has been stolen by lust".This indicates that that he wants us to improve from dwaidhic stage and reach advaithic stage.He isnt angry on them.But he wants them to improve in their life.

 

And see further.he says

 

9.23 ye 'py anya-devata-bhakta yajante 'sraddhayanvitah te 'pi mam eva kaunteya yajanty avidhi-purvakam

 

"Those who are devotees of demigods (anya-devata) and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way (avidhi-purvakam)."

 

He says "Even though you think that god is different from you, it isnt.You only worship me(nirguna bhramman-which is nothing but the worshipper).But they worship it in a wrong way(thinking it as anya devatha)"

 

Which is the right way?Thinking that the god isnt anya devatha.That is the right way.

 

So stop this mis translation of anya devatha as demigod.Call it as alien god.Stop mis interpreting Geetha.Krishna clearly has said that advaitha is the path to reach him.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Why did Krishna call other gods as "anya devatha"?

 

because he's a devata, the supreme devata and he's speaking of other ones who are not supreme. Alien comes from a latin world that means "other.."

---

 

Read the above said paragraph again.Where has Krishna said that all other gods are inferior to him?Nowhere.He has said that he is the "originator of all devathas" and "origin of everything".

 

being he the origin.. and other devatas the "originated"... so he is superior and other ones the subordinated.

--

 

"Advaithis say that Nirguna Bhramman is the originator of all devathas which are nothing but Nirguna bhramman himself"

 

so they are wrong... bhagavad gita states that krsna is the originator of brahman, devatas, individuals, spirit, matter and so on

--

 

"What does Krishna mean here?he doesnt say "Dont worship alien gods.He said 'dont worship alien gods IN A WRONG WAY"."

 

the wrong way is to worship the gods thinking that they can give graces independently by krsna. Another wrong way is that generally devatas are worshipped to obtain material things.

It is possible to ask to the devatas to give us the krsna's devotion.... and they are very happy to give it to us. This is like worshiping krsna himself so is not the "worship of devatas" as said in the context

--

 

"Only dwaidhis see god as different from them and surrender to alien gods(any god-including krishna)"

 

that's a fantasy.... in bhagavad gita is written krsna, not something else... your attempt to depict krsna as a product of nirguna brahman until the point to put him in the cathegory of subordinated deities is unjustified

--

So stop this mis translation of anya devatha as demigod.Call it as alien god

 

all other god who are alien (=different) by krsna

---

Stop mis interpreting Geetha.Krishna clearly has said that advaitha is the path to reach him.

 

krsna has said "sarva dharma...." leave any othe duty and surrender to me, "man mana..." think of me.. he's not ignorant of vedic culture. If he wantd to say "surrender to nirguna brahman...", "think of nirguna brahman.." he were able to say clearly it to arjuna

 

jaya sri krsna, jaya sri bhagavad gita

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Your problem is not with demi-gods but with krishna being represented as Supreme GodHEAD, so might as well put this right in everybodies head.

 

So 2nd of all your post in my eyes is void. Haribol

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

If you call krishna as supreme god and others as demigods,you reduce hinduism to polytheism.Hinduism is pantheism.Advaitha unifies all world religions.You seperate all religions.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Even in material life there is seperation. Spiritual seperation. I don't have any desire to preach to you. Open your mind to possibility thats all harekrsna

 

[Guest guest]

Can you, govindaram, open your mind to the possibilty that all is NOT hare krishna?

[barney]

The problem with you is you think you know all and that is your low attitude. No wonder no one wants to listen to you. With such attitude how could God's grace be with you? You are insensitive to others belief and only try to impose

what you think is the only right path. Please for God sake stop this nonsense and come to you senses. Krishna is Hinduism and Hinduism is Krishna.

[Guest guest]

 

antavat tu phalam tesam

 

tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam

 

devan deva-yajo yanti

 

mad-bhakta yanti mam api

 

 

 

BG 7.23: Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.

 

 

[Guest guest]

naham prakashah sarvasya

 

yoga-maya-samavritah

 

mudho 'yam nabhijanati

 

loko mam ajam avyayam

 

 

BG 7.25 I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I am unborn and infallible.

 

 

[Guest guest]

sadhibhutadhidaivam mam

 

sadhiyajnam ca ye viduh

 

prayana-kale 'pi ca mam

 

te vidur yukta-cetasah

 

BG 7.30: Those in full consciousness of Me, who know Me, the Supreme Lord, to be the governing principle of the material manifestation, of the demigods, and of all methods of sacrifice, can understand and know Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even at the time of death.

[Guest guest]

yanti deva-vrata devan

 

pitrin yanti pitri-vratah

 

bhutani yanti bhutejya

 

yanti mad-yajino 'pi mam

 

BG 9.25: Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; and those who worship Me will live with Me.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Then what is mathrudevo bhava?pithru devo bhava?Why does vedas say "guru bhramma,guru vishnu,guru devo maheswara "?

 

"Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigod"

 

-if you worship it in wrong way it happens.If you worship them in advaithic way it doesnt happen.And its not demi god.Alien god.

 

"Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary"

 

---He means the dwaidhis.If you worship krishna through dwaidham,thinking him as different from you,krishna too is a alien god.

 

I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent

---He means the dwaidhis.(not madvacharyas disciples alone,but whole universe minus advaithin saints)

 

Those in full consciousness of Me, who know Me, the Supreme Lord, to be the governing principle of the material manifestation, of the demigods, and of all methods of sacrifice, can understand and know Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even at the time of death.

 

-----He refers to advaithis.

 

 

 

"and those who worship Me will live with Me."

--That is worship him as yourself.Thats what he says.

 

[Guest guest]

"Open your mind to possibility thats all harekrsna"

 

 

Open your mind to possibility that all is One Lord.

 

Lord cannot be be limited by a name Harekrsna. He is unlimited.

 

Priya Vaishnav's note is supported by Br. Upanishad:

 

 

Those who know the Lord as different from one self is a pasu to the Devas.

[Guest guest]

i don't know what's hinduism

 

gita and other vedic scriptures are monotheist.. and advaita is also monotheist because he believes in one god even if impersonal

 

pantheism is that everyone has a fraction of divinity and there's not a ONe who has it all

 

(there's no need to make a big, ONE, world religion... the important thing is to be peaceful)

[Guest guest]

"Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigod"

-if you worship it in wrong way it happens.If you worship them in advaithic way it doesnt happen.And its not demi god.Alien god.

••••it is written clearly... why the need to interprete? krsna is fool that he cannot explain something in simple words?

 

"Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary"

---He means the dwaidhis.If you worship krishna through dwaidham,thinking him as different from you,krishna too is a alien god.

•••again why?... he says demigods and you say that he wants to say "krsna through dvaitism..."

 

I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent

---He means the dwaidhis

••no... dvaitis recognize that krsna is the supreme lord.. so where's the foolishness?

 

Those in full consciousness of Me, who know Me, the Supreme Lord, to be the governing principle of the material manifestation, of the demigods, and of all methods of sacrifice, can understand and know Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even at the time of death.

-----He refers to advaithis.

••no... advaitis do not discriminate between supreme and subordinate, so they do not know krsna as the supreme and they do not recognize themselves as subordinates

 

"and those who worship Me will live with Me."

--That is worship him as yourself.Thats what he says.

••he says "priya-vaishnava (you are not so prya, you are constantly insulting vaishnavas) if you worship me you live with me" and you understand that you have to worship yourself?

 

the next time you do some job, who has to pay he will pay to himself instead of to yourself

 

is he a fool or an advaitin?

 

(you are good to invite at dinner... i give food to me and it is the same thing that offering food to you... remember "patram, pushpam, phalam, toyam..." who is to be offerend with leafs, flowers, fruits, water? krsna or you?)

[Guest guest]

Open your mind to possibility that all is One Lord.

••you are right, all is ONE lord, but inside the ALL there's really ALL!! also the variety and individuality

 

so lord is all but lord is simultaneously different because he wants the possibility to live the blissful variety of the infinite relationships with the spiritual individuals

----

Lord cannot be be limited by a name Harekrsna. He is unlimited.

 

••the name of the lord has the features of the lord.. so hare, rama, krsna, narasimha, govinda, vamana, matsya and so on are unlimited

 

inside any god's name there's the WHOLE, because lord's name is not a human name

 

---

Priya Vaishnav's note is supported by Br. Upanishad:

••(not so) prya vaishnava is not supported by any sane logic and any scripture

 

----

 

Those who know the Lord as different from one self is a pasu to the Devas.

••yes lord is surely not different by me because i cannot be anything else if not his emanation.

But simultaneously he is also different because in the whole there's also individuality and variety

 

if you think that maya has features that the brahman has not, if you think that maya is different because she has features and lord has not ... you are a pasu to devas

 

simple

[Guest guest]

I dont want to play language games here with my friend guest.I have a different vocabulary and he has a different vocabulary.People with different vocabularies will find it difficult to communicate.I can give the advaithic interpretation of Geetha and he can give the Hare krishna interpretation on geetha and we can endlessly debate for years.Many acharyas have debated on this for years.Are we both wiser than them?So I choose a different vocabulary now,a neutral vocabulary which isnt advaithic or dwaidhic.

 

If we accept vaishnava interpretation of geetha it indicates that

1)vaishnava religion is supreme to other religions.

2)Vaishnavas worship real god and others worship demi gods.

3)Without reading geetha or vedas there isnt any way for salvation.

4)Only the vedic or geetha's way of salvation is correct and all other religions preach a wrong concept or a misinterpreted concept.

 

Accepting the above said hypothesis brings so many questions.

 

1)The people who worship vishnu in India will be 30 to 40%.In this pure vaishnavas will be even less.Saying that only these follow the right religion and the remaining 5 billion population of world follow wrong religion and inferior gods reminds doesnt strike right to me.

 

2)Nobody knows krishna beyond indian borders.(except nri's and hk's)So how are these guys expected to worship the god whom they havent heard of?

 

3)Those who have heard of vedas and who have read geetha will be very,very few.What about the rest of the population?How are they expected to attain salvation?If we say god offers salvation to only those who live by geetha and vedas,,,whew,,,forget world population,,not even 70 to 80% of indian population will qualify.

 

So accepting vaishnava ideology will satisfy my ego,"Hindus are correct and all others are wrong.."But it wont augur well with the impartiality and love of my god krishna.Krishna isnt partial to hindus alone.

 

If i am a devout christian and after i die i go to paradise and find krishna there saying "enjoy the fruits of your good deeds in heaven and go back to earth again since you worshipped a demigod...."i will ask him "why the hell did you make me a christian in first place?whose mistake was it?".what answer will he give?

 

Only advaitha offers the best option friend.If im an impartial god i wont have wrong and right religions.I will be common to whole universe and not just to one religion or country.

 

Vedas are a guide.But arent the only guide.If that is so what about the rest of world?whay werent they given vedas?Think friend,think.

 

----you said "(you are not so prya, you are constantly insulting vaishnavas)"

 

I just quoted advaitha.I never insulted any vaishnavas.Its an open debate.Debates are the way in which our religion defeated buddhists and jains in the past.All our acharyas were highly scholarly in debates.That is a healthy habit.Religions that dont debate end up fascist and backward like________(fill up the blank.I dont even want to name that intolerant and violent religion)

 

I have nothing against vaishnavas.After all vaishnava was one of the 6 religions founded by adi shankara.Shankara pointed out that without becoming a dwaidhi none can become an advaithi.So take things cool.Enjoy the debate.

[Guest guest]

priya to vaishnavas alone?

••be pryia to everyone!!

 

I can give the advaithic interpretation of Geetha and he can give the Hare krishna interpretation on geetha and we can endlessly debate for years

••there's no question of interpretation... krsna says "surrender to me..." i read "i must surrender to krsna..", The sign of the street writes "agra 200km.." i understand that this is the way to agra and the distance is 200km. Where's the problem? where's the need of interpretation?

 

1)vaishnava religion is supreme to other religions.

••bhagavad gita is the "speech of bhagavan sri krsna".. sri krsna is vishnu. Vishnu (the lord who mantains the universe) is in all religions

 

2)Vaishnavas worship real god and others worship demi gods.

••everyone who worships god is right and he's worshiping the supreme. Who's not worshiping the supreme has his own different purposes. Where's the problem?

 

3)Without reading geetha or vedas there isnt any way for salvation.

••vedas and gita are not sectarian.. if you study gita you will understand correctly bible, buddhist sutras, quran and so on.. in this way any god's message will be a complete way of salvation

 

1)The people who worship vishnu in India will be 30 to 40%.In this pure vaishnavas will be even less.

••very much less.... real spiritualists are very very very rare

 

2)Nobody knows krishna beyond indian borders.(except nri's and hk's)So how are these guys expected to worship the god whom they havent heard of?

••so help who is spreading the word of krsna... i am not indian and i was saved by indians who have given to me that science. I am eternally grateful

 

3)Those who have heard of vedas and who have read geetha will be very,very few.What about the rest of the population?

••let us work together to give them salvation... It is useless to make a false question of tolerance, judge the message in itself and take a decision. The fact that a message is followed only by a relative minority (maybe a BILLION!!!) is irrilevant

 

So accepting vaishnava ideology will satisfy my ego,"Hindus are correct and all others are wrong.."

••so examine better if it is only a satisfaction of ego or a real thing... the fact that you would be exalted in your ego says that a philosophy is wrong.. why?

 

If i am a devout christian and after i die i go to paradise and find krishna

••you'll find christ.. not krsna.. why you find krsna if you do not want him?

 

i will ask him "why the hell did you make me a christian in first place?

••when you'll see krsna you will have no doubts, krsna is CIT and he's the source of CIT. We are in the material world accepting partial religions because we wanted to be falsely independent and krsna, by maya, satisfacted us giving us the possibility to forget him. But if one's following a religion, any religion, he has made a very big step. So let us add bhagavad gita and vedas to make his step more complete

 

Only advaitha offers the best option friend

••because you think that advaita is impartial... very wrong, advaita is partial for first with god who is no more an eternal, conscious, blissful individual but only a faceless energy. Where's the impartiality, to kill god to avoid contrasts?

 

After all vaishnava was one of the 6 religions founded by adi shankara

••with my deep homages to sri shankara acharya... that's wrong. Even krsna was a vaishnava!! in his house in nandagram nanda maharaja kept varaha and narasimha murtis

[Guest guest]

{I can give the advaithic interpretation of Geetha} - priya vaishnava

 

Just a question, did Sankara believe Krishna was historical and the gita to be his words? or is he regarded as mythological with the gita being practical upanishadic teachings written by Sage Vyasa?

 

I say this because I think advaita sees the gods as symbolic personifications of Brahman and may not actually exist in the forms they are depicted in and the stories of the puranas being untrue.

 

I'm not against advaita nor am I pro-vaishnava.

[Guest guest]

Krishna was suguna bhramman.When nirguna Bhramman starts to act he becomes suguna bhramman.Every avathar is suguna bhramman.Krishna isnt a mythological character.He is an avathar.Shankara has sung "hanuman pancharatna mala".Will he sing it if he believed that hanuman was a mythical character?

 

Advaitha holds that the vedas,puranas and epics(ramayan and mahabharat) were compiled by sage vyasa.So how can it believe that puranas are mythical?It believes in all puranas and epics.

[Guest guest]

did Sankara believe Krishna was historical and the gita to be his words?

 

the ultimate instruction of sri shankara acharya was "bhaja govinda.. mudha mate..." ... worship krsna intellectual fool.

The intelligence of Shankara Acharya never needed to use a myth to explain his science or tho give an instruction. He said exactly what he wanted to say

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

Krishna was suguna bhramman.When nirguna Bhramman starts to act he becomes suguna bhramman

••that's your faith... no scripture says like that. Krsna is the supreme, he's all the spiritual manifestations, all kinds of brahman, being the Param Brahman

 

 

[Guest guest]

{Every avathar is suguna bhramman.Krishna isnt a mythological character.He is an avathar.}

 

Modern Advaitist such as Vivekananda did seem to believe the devatas and the forms of saguna Brahman to be mythological. For them only Nirguna Brahman was the truth.

They also doubt the historicity of the avatars. They say the Gita was written from 600-300BC and NOT 5000BC. This was long after the Mahabharata war so where is the proof that the Gita was the true words Sri Krishna actually spoke? Did this belief stem from Shankaracharya or with these modern advaitist movements? Why did they do this?

 

{So how can it believe that puranas are mythical?It believes in all puranas and epics.}

 

But the shaivite, shakta and vaishnava puranas all contradict each other and all state their main god as the supreme God and the others as lesser. So which one should be belived or are they not important? Some modern advaitist groups say all the puranas are mythological storied with symbolic representation of the powers of god as devatas that were written for the uneducated masses of India in order to appeal to them and teach them a little religion as they were incapable of understanding the sruti texts. What was the official view of Adi Shankaracharya?

[Guest guest]

The term "modern advaithi" is an oxymoron.Advaitha needs no neo-interpretations or modernisms.If vivekananda contradicts shankara,shankara prevails.There are no terms like 'modern advaithi' and 'old advaithi'.There is only an 'eternal advaithi'.Even that 'eternal' term is implicit.I would prefer no names for advaithin philosophy.But to save you dwaidhis we have to call ourselves advaithis.(the 'us' and 'you' are just language games,an advaithi has only 'we'-not 'us' and 'them')

 

No purana is contradictory to each other in advaitha philosophy.If you accept that nirguna bhramman has taken the forms of shiva,agni,vayu and vishnu you can claim that any of these forms is parabhramman.And vishnu purana is the collection of leelas of parabhramman,when he was in form of vishnu.So if we see shiva worshiping vishnu in vishnu puran we can take it as shiva showing how to worship vishnu to vishnu bhakts.

 

Similiarly if vishnu worships ganesh in ganesh puran we can take it as vishnu showing how to worship ganesh to ganesh' devotees.worshiping somebody doesnt indicate that you are inferior to them.And also listen to the stothras." you lord, you are the greatest one,you are the one who saves his devotees,you are the one who are the universe,you are the the one from whom everything originated..."-now is this untrue?No.Since every god is form of nirguna bhramman everything is true.

 

If shiva gets defeated by vishnu in a puran,it is like at times mother and father playing before children.At times father will pretend to lose.At times mother will pretend to lose.If we see these incidents always a moral principle will be hidden behind each story.For example annamalai temple sthalapuran which said that vishnu could not find feet of shiva,indicates the moral.Dont lie.we will see such small incidents happening in our houses too.Our mother will tell us dont lie.BUt we will find out that she is lying to father.THen we will find father pretending to beat mother and she running away.

 

In next instance we will find father running from mother.Its similiar in purans.

 

And advaitha is clear on purans.They are authentic.But we have lost many of our puranas and many puranas of ours have been reauthored by overzealous poets in between ages.But advaitha holds purans to be real.There is no logic in saying that "I believe that god can do miracles.But i dont believe in puranic miracles."

[imported_servegod]

Hare Krishna

 

 

"So if we see shiva worshiping vishnu in vishnu puran we can take it as shiva showing how to worship vishnu to vishnu bhakts."

 

This is called mental speculation - where is the shastric evidence that this is what Shiva means when he worships Vishnu?

 

"If shiva gets defeated by vishnu in a puran,it is like at times mother and father playing before children"

 

This is called mental speculation - where is the shastric evidence that this is what is happening?

 

 

"many puranas of ours have been reauthored by overzealous poets"

 

There is nothing wrong with the puranas. More like the interpretation of the puranas have been poisoned by mental speculation...

 

Hare Krishna