Shed the feeling: My God is the greatest

[Guest guest]

Very often when I see the discussion forums they are more oriented towards establishing the supremacy of the a particular God whom a person is attached with. We somehow seem to lose the real philosophy. We are carried away by the stories in the puranas and try to make our own interpretations. We are dragging God to our cheap human level. We seem to be interested in the skin rather than the pulp.

 

Keeping the stories and interpretations behind, why not concentrate the philosophy behind them. According to scriptures, man should ascend to God. i.e. shed the feelings of I and mine (including the feeling of MY GOD) and take the consciousness to the highest level. In other words:

 

God + Ego = Man

Man - Ego = God

 

Why not take steps towards getting rid of the Ego and raise to God level? Let us take Adi Sankara, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharishi, etc as our examples. They never engaged themselves in giving marks to various Gods and ranking them. They never divided people in the name of God. Their only objective was to realize God.

 

The various names and forms were not more than tools to understand the ONE INFINITE GOD. The essense is:

 

If you are a devotee of Shiva, become a better devotee of him

If you are a devotee of Vishnu, become a better devotee of him

If you are a devotee of Krishna, become a better devotee of him

If you are a devotee of Durga, become a better devotee of her

 

Our parents, Guru and others around have committed the blunder of dividing us in the name of God. That is what is reflecting in our discussion forums. Let us not make the same blunder.

 

HONESTLY THINK FOR A SECOND. Are we not losing the peace of mind by proving and counter-proving what we think is right? At the end of it what have we achieved? We are only feeding our petty Ego. Whatever we may have achieved, it is not even 1% worth the peace of mind that we have lost.

 

Do you think we can concentrate the God that we so often boast off after losing the peace?

 

PERHAPS IT IS TIME TO DO SOME SERIOUS SOUL-SEARCHING.

[Guest guest]

Swaminathan jee,

 

You have taught a nice lesson. People are creating discrimination among them . . .but is not it only a discussion ? We should remove egoism, even though

discussing. The time is for Unity and not for Diversity.

 

God + Ego = Man

Man – Ego = God

 

What a divine formula ! THANKS !

 

[Guest guest]

I agree that this is just a discussion. But there seems to be a lot of heartburn. Every one is passionate towards their own god and they don't want to hear something which de-means their belief. The arguments seem to go on and on. There seems to be no end to these discussions.

 

There are better things in vedas and upanishads to understand, experience and rejoice. Why not concentrate on them?

[Guest guest]

Read something sensible after a long time. Purpose of religion is to realize god and get closer to him by whatever methods you believe and not showing superiority of one’s religion. God must be laughing when he see his children are fighting over different

schools of religion.

 

If man is happy in this world, he will never pray god but will show his supremacy over god, the creator. Time given to us is precious. Therefore, do not waste your time in fighting over petty matters. There are many who wish but due to sickness or disability, do not get chance to awaken souls or realize God. Think that you are lucky to receive that chance.

 

[Guest guest]

"God + Ego = Man

Man - Ego = God"

 

your's is not a theory that promotes peace and the end of discussions.. your's is simply another theory that belongs approximatively to mayavadi advaitists..

 

for me and many this is simply a blasphemy

 

god is great and i am little... god is eternally god and i am eternally subordinated.. our personalities are eternal and we are united in a loving relationship

(read please bhagavad gita..)

 

if i have to be blaspheme and atheist to reach some illusory peace i am not attracted

 

so let us simply peacefully discuss without looking for artificial unions and agreements

[sumeet]

God + Ego = Man

 

may i ask you how will a perfect God be bewildered by Ego ? How can you change the immutable and make him into something else ? Such brahman is not taught in vedas anywhere.

 

Besides have you ever come across Sruti verses like -

 

"agnirvai devanamavamo visnuh paramah tadantarena sarva anya devatah."

 

"Among deities, agni is lowest and Vishnu is Supreme and rest comes in between." [Aitareya Brahmana 1.1.1]

 

Note words "Visnuh paramah" meaning Vishnu is Supreme, "tadantarena" meaning in between them [them meaning Agni as lowest, Vishnu as highest] comes "sarva" meaning all, "anya" meaning other, "devatah"

meaning gods or deities.

 

There is no reason for Srutis to talk about this hiearchy if there is one god appearing in forms of caturmukha brahma, indra, agni, Vishnu, Shiva, kali/uma/shakti etc.........

 

This brahmana contains one of the principal upanisad named Aiterya Upanisad.

[sumeet]

one should look into scriptures to realize brahman and not depend on one's speculation.

 

most people come up with wonderfull ideas but there problem is they don't understand scriptures and hence don't even quote them.

[Guest guest]

 

For every scripture that says Vishnu is the greatest, there is equally a number of them which says Shiva is the greatest. Not only that, scriptures from other religions will say Christ, Allah, Buddha, etc are the greatest in respective ways. It depends on which we want to take as the base to quote.

 

My point is, all of us believe there is God (whatever name and form you associate him with). That is the undercurrent. Let us concentrate on him instead of advertising / promoting him as done in various ads that we see in magazines, media, etc. By doing that, we are only bringing God to the level of man. Let us try the reverse. Let us ascend from man to God. That will be the culmination of our journey.

 

Perhaps, if you don't agree with this, I wouldn't be desperate to convince you. At the most, I can only pity you. Though I am attached towards my god, but I am surely not blinded by that attachment.

 

[sumeet]

Why not quote some of them ? Lets see which Sruti says some one else is greatest ? Vedas don't teach contradictory messages like Shiva is greatest, then Vishnu is greatest etc...... Vedas are unanimous in saying Hari Sarvottamyah - Lord Hari is Supreme.

 

Knowledge about brahman can only be had from Scriptures alone, so personal speculation won't help. Instead of pitying on me why not show some scriptures that actually support your position.

 

For every claim you make, quote Sruti or Brahma Sutra or Bhagavad Gita to substantiate them. I don't prefer debating with people who cannot quote sastras. So please do so in your next post.

[sumeet]

you haven't answered my question about how

 

God + Ego = Man

 

is true ?

Look at the questions raised in the earlier post and please answer them.

 

[barney]

Swaminathan was right in saying God + ego=Man. And here I see your pea brain is clouded by your ego. You do not know what is unity in diversity and would prefer to live in hostile. It's people like you who make life miserable for all. If you think Vishnu is supreme so be it but you need not compare Vishnu with others. The ancient ones have told that all names belong to the one nameless God we call by many names in different manefistation. But to make you understand that philosophy would be difficult because you posses a pea brain whch would be not undestand such a concept. So, be happy as you are but refrain from making others angry.

[barney]

Muslims would always quote from their hadith insted of their Koran and here you would want to stick to surti. Times have changed and centruies have goneby and yet your want to be adamant about your belief. Wisemen and come and gone, did their nest to teach egoist like you but what can I say if that is what you want to stick to than I would suggest you live by such. Do not ride in any modern vehicle or use any cell phone to communicate and as a matter of fact you should not log into the net as all this are changes in life over the centuries that man has adapted inorder to blend himself with time.

 

God is not in the surti but in every living entity and when enlightend souls like Sree Ramaling Swami, Ramakrishna Paramhansa, Vivekananda, Budha, Mahavira and many others who have found peace in mind and shared their enlightenment to the world it's people like you who oppose such belief and divided the people of the Hindu faith further and further whic paved the way for some to convert to ther religions. I hope you will come to your senses and make amendments so that you would find peace with God who is hidden in your heart.

[Guest guest]

 

Puranas: Shiva purana, Linga purana, Skanda purana

 

Upanishads: Shivopanishad, Sveteswara upanishad, Sharaba upanishad, and a lot more

 

Checkout Mahabaratha. Krishna teaches Shiv Sahasranama to Pandavas. Sudarshana charka which Krishna used to kill Shisupala was granted by Shiva.

 

Checkout Linga Purana. How Shiva resolves the fight between Vishnu and Bramha on who is the superior?

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

I think, barney, this discussion has got to the same old rotten state. Best thing is to stay away and leave the insane brutes to feed their ego in the name of God.

 

Guys, I can't help, but pity you. But surely I will pray for you people to get wisdom.

 

AUM TAT SAT.

 

[Guest guest]

i am not sure if your and barney's behaviour is not fanatic if you subordinate the views of the scriptures given by god to your poor human feelings

 

i suspect that you do not accept the supremacy of the lord because you want to be the lord and rule the universe

 

you and all the people that you have listed as masters that for me masters are not .. like ramakrsna and vivekananda

 

if you are not respectiful with lord sri bhagavan, trying to take away his supreme place in all universes, you cannot even speak of respect for his creatures

[Guest guest]

I am Supreme you are supreme we all are supreme. Shed ego you will realize i am you you are me there is actually no i you he they etc............ its all one formless atman.

 

There is no wife, no son, not even this world. What exists is atman alone. And this atman does not know how to quote scriptures. We follow likes of Ramakrishna, Vivekananda etc.... They are we and we are they. Atman is mental speculator and does not knows it own vedas. Who is Kirshna a god different from me ? nope there is no distinction. Those who talk about distinction are in maya. Even though Krishna could kill so many demons and i will fall down if arnold schaznaker slaps me. Still i am god because i have shed my ego. Oh look at me i am secularist. Oh look at me i am Supreme. Oh look at me I know the scriptures but sorry cannot quote them. Those who say Vishnu is only supreme are idiots unwise rejected by learned ones like Me, vivekananada Ramakrishna etc....... We are big hearted they are small hearted. WE ARE GOD.

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

i am afraid this is degenrating in to absurd argument.

if you are supreme you can get rid of all our problems, but you can not control your own can you?

the drop of water has same quality of the ocean but it can not claim to be entire ocean.

Jai Shree Krishna

[sumeet]

its really heartening to know that you say I am not supreme. Its so true. how can we be Supreme, just a small thought will help here.

 

so ganesh prasad please contribute to threads i have opened. i think you are sensible member here. But please quote scriptures because God is known through scriptures alone and not through means like barney and co employ.

 

hoping to see you there.

[Guest guest]

"I am Supreme"

 

if you were supreme you'd not be slave of the supremacy of maya

 

why are you not ruling on maya?

[Guest guest]

Swaminathan, I think you are a awakened soul. If so, let others who are following soul searching path know your techniques, experiences etc. Arguing with those who just boost their ego by displaying their lower knowledge is meaningless. What we heard that there is nothing like language or words when the soul is awaken.

 

So instead of replying to those who have another path, kindly help those who really need the guidance of those who already awakened the soul.

 

GuestABC

[Guest guest]

"Arguing with those who just boost their ego by displaying their lower knowledge is meaningless."

 

wich religion,wich guru and book has taught to you to be so sectarian and proud?

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

Re

(its really heartening to know that you say I am not supreme. Its so true. how can we be Supreme, just a small thought will help here.)

This is not difficult for anyone, but for those who follow advaita a concept not allian to Vedas is a legit path to follow and seek the Brahman and merg with it, problem is the drop or a part to declare them self to be the whole, when it is quiet clear we are not the supreme.

 

 

Re

( But please quote scriptures because God is known through scriptures alone and not through means like barney and co employ.)

 

I beg to differ, not that the lord is not described in the scriptures but he/she is beyond that we have to seek sincerely or else he is so near yet so far.

 

What scriptures did Prahlad know or Dhruv or sabri?

When Hiranyaksa asked where do you get your energy from? He replied from the same source, father you gain your strength from. So it is not difficult to understand where from barney and co gain their knowledge from, the lord is in everyones heart and through him we have our memory or fogetfulness. I may not agree everything they write but I find it futile to argue I am right and everyone else is wrong.

 

We have to seek guidance from scriptures and sadhus but we have to realize what we have learned or else knowledge is useless.

 

Re

(hoping to see you there. )

May be

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

------------

1.22.20 Tad visnom paranam padam sada pashyanti suryah, divya chaksur atatam

 

 

 

RV 1.22

 

16 The Gods be gracious unto us even from the place whence Visnu strode through the seven regions of the earth!

20 The princes evermore behold that loftiest place where the supreme feet Visnu is, laid as it were an eye in heaven.

21 This, Vishnu's station most sublime, the singers, ever vigilant, Lovers of holy song, light up.

-------------

 

 

These are the verses from Rig Veda that make you think of foolish supremacy of one god over another. I ask you what is “param padanam”? Why straight away “param” is not said? Is it not since Visnu is movement (gati) of Lord?

 

 

When Rig Veda talks of different attributes and functions represented by different names you think Rig Veda is talking of individuals. Rig Veda talks of one Lord alone.

 

Book 1 HYMN LXXXIX. Visvedevas.

10 Aditi is the heaven, Aditi is mid-air, Aditi is the Mother and the Sire and Son. Aditi is all Gods, Aditi five-classed men, Aditi all that hath been born and shall be born

 

 

HYMN XLIII. Rudra.

1 WHAT shall we sing to Rudra, strong, most bounteous, excellently wise, That shall be dearest to his heart?

2 That Aditi may grant the grace of Rudra to our folk, our kine, our cattle and our progeny;

 

 

Now I will just give a few verses to show why “param padanam” instead of “param”.

 

 

Book 10 HYMN LXXIII. Indra.

 

1. THOU wast born mighty for victorious valour, exulting, strongest, full of pride and courage. There, even there, the Maruts strengthened Indra when his most rapid Mother stirred the Hero.

-----

10 When others call him offspring of the Courser, my meaning is that Mighty Power produced him. He came from Manyu and remained in houses: whence he hath sprung is known to Indra only.

 

 

 

Note: Indra is Offspring of the courser -- The controller.

 

 

Rig Veda Book 6 HYMN XIII. Indra.

 

1. INDRA, when Soma juices flow, makes his mind pure and meet for lauds. He gains the power that brings success, for great is he.

 

20 That mind of Rudra, fresh and strong, moves conscious in the ancient ways, With reference whereto the wise have ordered this.

 

 

Note: Now it is clear that Indra is the mind of Rudra.

 

 

 

Rig Veda Book 8 HYMN XII. Indra.

 

14 Aditi also hath brought forth a hymn for Indra, Sovran Lord: The work of sacrifice for help is glorified.

 

 

27 When Visnu, through thine energy, strode wide those three great steps of his, Then thy two beautiful Bay Steeds carried thee on.

 

 

 

 

Note: Visnu through Indra’s energy took wide strides and formed the quarters.

 

 

Rig Veda Book 8 HYMN XV. Indra.

 

1. SING forth to him whom many men invoke, to him whom many laud. Invite the powerful Indra with your songs of praise.

 

 

9 Visnu, Varuna, Mitra sing thy praise: In thee the Maruts' company have great delight.

 

 

Note: Visnu sings Indra’s praise

 

 

Book 10 HYMN CXTII. Indra.

 

1. THE Heavens and the Earth accordant with all Gods encouraged graciously that vigorous might of his. When he came showing forth his majesty and power, he drank of Soma juice and waxed exceeding strong.

 

2 This majesty of his, Visnu extols and lauds, making the stalk that gives the meath flow forth with might

 

 

Note: Visnu extols and lauds majesty of Indra

 

 

 

Visnu lauds Indra. Visnu extols Indra. : Visnu sings Indra’s praise.

 

 

And Indra is mind of Rudra, Son of courser. And Visnu is arrow, gati, movement of Rudra. Visnu moves with Indra’s energy and Indra is Rudra’s mysterious mind.

 

 

And then

 

 

Rig Veda 7.46.2

 

To Rudra bring these songs, whose bow is firm and strong, the self-dependent God with swiftly-flying shafts, The Wise, the Conqueror whom none may overcome, armed with sharp-pointed weapons: may he hear our call.

 

He through his lordship thinks on beings of the earth, on heavenly beings through his high imperial sway.

 

 

Note: the self-dependent God. All through Vedas, Rudra alone and no other God is mentioned as self dependent. And He is the conqueror whom none may overcome. Why?

 

Yajur Veda i. 8. 6.

a -------

d Rudra alone yieldeth to no second.

 

 

Yajur Veda: iv. 5. 9.

 

a ----------.

p Homage to you, sparkling hearts of the gods

 

 

 

Book 10 HYMN XCII. Visvedevas.

 

9 With humble adoration show this day your song of praise to mighty Rudra, Ruler of the brave: With whom, the Eager Ones, going their ordered course, he comes from heaven Self-bright, auspicious, strong to guard.

 

 

 

11 For these songs, the Earth and Heaven with their abundant seed, four-bodied Narasmsa, Yama, Aditi, God Tvastar Wealth-bestower, the Rbhuksanas, Rodasi, Maruts, Visnu, claim and merit praise.

 

 

 

 

Note: All else --- Narasmsa, Yama, Aditi, God Tvastar Wealth-bestower, the Rbhuksanas, Rodasi, Maruts, Visnu ---- claim and merit praise on account of Him alone.

 

 

 

 

 

Sarveshvara

SU III, 3-4

i) 3. On all sides eye, on all sides face,

on all sides arms, on all sides feet,

he, God, the One, creates heaven and earth,

forging them together with arms and wings.

4. He who is source and origin of the Gods,

the Lord of all, Rudra, the mighty sage,

who produced in ancient days the Golden Germ--

may he endow us with purity of mind!

 

 

 

 

Sri Brahma Samhita.

 

 

Book 1 TEXT 8

 

niyatih sa rama devi

tat-priya tad-vasam tada

tal-lingam bhagavan sambhur

jyoti-rupah sanatanah

ya yonih sapara saktih

kamo bijam mahad hareh

 

 

WORD FOR WORD

 

The goddess, the regulator; the spiritual potency of Him; beloved of Him; under the control of lingam—bhagavan sambhuh-- jyotih-rupah-- eternal; that yonih is potency (saktih), the desire; the seed; and mahat--the faculty of cognition of the Supreme Lord Hareh.

 

 

 

 

Devi is the desire, the seed, and the faculty of cognition of Hari – the Lord of the Universe. And Sakti – the regulator (Niyati) is under the control of lingam rupi eternal Bhagwan Shambhu. She is the potency of supreme Lord Hareh.

 

 

 

Now, friends enquire: Which person will entrust one’s potency -- the desire, the seed, and the faculty of cognition (Devi in short) to another man called Saktiman?

 

 

Read more below.

 

Note: Rudra is the soul and Antaryami. All else are His splendours

 

Yajur Veda iv. 4. 8.

 

(Thou I art) all overcoming through Agni; self-ruling through the sun; lord of strength through might; creator with the bull; bountiful through the sacrifice; heavenly through the sacrificial fee; slayer of enemies through rage; supporter of the body through kindliness; wealth through food; through the earth he hath won; (thou art) eater of food with verses; increased by the Vasat cry; protector of the body through the Saman; full of light with the Viraj; drinker of Soma through the holy power; with cows he supporteth the sacrifice; with lordly power men; with horse and car bearer of the bolt; lord with the seasons; enclosing with the year; unassailable through penance; the sun with bodies.

 

Note: The Creator with the Bull. All Gods are bulls in Rig Veda. And Visnu is Him when brought down, as below:

 

Yajur Veda iv. 4. 9.

 

(Thou art) ---------- Visnu when being taken down; ---------- Vayu when covered up; the gazer on men when revealed; the food when it comes; the famed of the fathers; life when taken; the river when going to the final bath; the ocean when gone; the water when dipped; the heaven when arrived at completion.

 

Note: (Thou art) ---------- Visnu when being taken down;

 

And now learn that Indra is the Lord of Visnu like Adityas are the Lords of Maruts

 

 

Yajur Veda iv. 3. 9.

a Thou art the portion of Agni, the overlordship of consecration, the holy power saved, the threefold Stoma.

b Thou art the portion of Indra, the overlordship of Visnu, the lordly power saved, the fifteenfold Stoma.

 

 

Rig Veda Book 5 HYMN III. Agni.

 

3 The life forces deck their beauty for thy glory, yea, Rudra, for thy birth fair, brightly-coloured. That which was fixed as Visnu's loftiest station-therewith the secret of the Cows thou guardest.

 

 

Question: Why Vedas speak of Visnu’s loftiest station and not that Visnu is the lofty station? Since Visnu is His movement. Indra is His mind. Agni is his will.

 

 

 

Rig Veda Book 1 HYMN LXXII. Agni.

 

1. THOUGH holding many gifts for men, he humbleth the higher powers of each wise ordainer. Agni is now the treasure-lord of treasures, for ever granting all immortal bounties.

2 The Gods infallible all searching found not him, the dear Babe who still is round about us. Worn weary, following his track, devoted, they reached the lovely highest home of Agni.

------

4 Making them known to spacious earth and heaven, the holy Ones revealed the powers of Rudra.

 

 

 

Samhita is inviolable. Brahmana may be set aside. Why translate “paranam padam” as “param”?

 

But of course we worship “paranam padam” as it is His padam. But you don’t know whose “padam” to worship.

 

 

Lord is one and Visnu and Siva is one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

III-i-3: This One is (the inferior) Brahman; this is Indra, this is Prajapati; this is all these gods; and this is these five elements, viz. earth, air, space, water, fire; and this is all these (big creatures), together with the small ones, that are the procreators of others and referable in pairs – to wit, those that are born of eggs, of wombs, of moisture of the earth, viz. horses, cattle, men, elephants, and all the creatures that there are which move or fly and those which do not move. All these have Consciousness as the giver of their reality; all these are impelled by Consciousness; the universe has Consciousness as its eye and Consciousness is its end. Consciousness is Brahman.

 

III-i-4: Through this Self that is Consciousness, he ascended higher up from this world, and getting all desires fulfilled in that heavenly world, he became immortal, he became immortal.

 

 

[Guest guest]

What you say, is the essence of Vedas and Vedanta.

 

 

 

Yajur Veda iv. 4. 8.

 

(Thou I art) all overcoming through Agni; self-ruling through the sun; lord of strength through might; creator with the bull; bountiful through the sacrifice; heavenly through the sacrificial fee; slayer of enemies through rage; supporter of the body through kindliness; wealth through food; through the earth he hath won; (thou art) eater of food with verses; increased by the Vasat cry; protector of the body through the Saman; full of light with the Viraj; drinker of Soma through the holy power; with cows he supporteth the sacrifice; with lordly power men; with horse and car bearer of the bolt; lord with the seasons; enclosing with the year; unassailable through penance; the sun with bodies.

 

 

 

But dear Swaminathan ji, when you say "I am supreme", are you proclaiming this as one who has effaced body-mind-ego.

 

 

This proclamation suits only a few in many millions who are not concscious of body-mind-ego and the universe and who constantly are in yoga with the Lord.