Supremacy of Vishnu over devatas like indra, agni, vayu ...

[sumeet]

Only those who will quote scriptures to back up their claims and will not rant and rave are welcome to post here.

 

Brahma Sutra clearly says:

 

Sastrayonitvat I.1.3

"Brahman is realisable only through the scriptures."

 

Srutestu sabdamulatvat II.1.27

"But (this is not so) on account of scriptural passages and on account of (Brahman) resting on scripture (only)."

 

Sruteh: from Sruti, as it is stated in Sruti, on account of scriptural texts; Tu: but; Sabdamulatvat: on account of being based on the scripture, as Sruti is the foundation.

 

(Sabda: word, revelation, Sruti; Mula: foundation.)

 

So please those who do not want to rely on scriptures kindly stay out of this discussion.

 

Veda Vyasa has clearly written that Knowledge of Brahman can only be had through scriptures. Hence we will rely on scriptures only.

 

ADMIN ---- A request to you can you please delete posts which are just abuses or personal speculations lacking scriptural quotes from bonafide scriptures.

 

First lets tackle this then we will followed this by 3 posts in which ontological position of Vishnu and Shakti, Vishnu and Caturmukha Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva will be addressed. And hence Supreme position of Lord Hari will be established.

 

Now the post begins :

 

All glories to Vishnu and Vaishnavas.

 

The Rig Vedic verse "ekam sad viprah bahuddah vadantih" is a very beautiful verse which simply means that Truth[sat] which is one is known/called by many names by those who are learned.

 

Rig Veda 1.164.46

"They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and he is heavenly nobly- winged Garutman. To what is One, sages give many a title they call it Agni, Yama, Matarisvan."

 

Now in this verse "Him","He" refers to the same entity called "Sad" meaning truth. From the taittarya verse "satyam jnanam anatam brahma" we know that "Brahman is Truth, Knowledge[Consciousness], Infinte".

 

Hence truth in the Rig Vedic verse refers to Brahman. We have both context support and scriptural support for this interpretation.

 

Lets analyze this further: The verse says Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, Yama are all names of this being.

 

Does this means that demigod Indra Lord of heavens, Agni Lord of fire etc are brahman himself or forms of brahman himself ?

 

We say no it is not thus. Please listen to our reason:

 

In Kena Upanisad following verses occurs:

 

III-1. It is well-known that Brahman indeed achieved victory for the gods. But in that victory which was Brahman's the gods revelled in joy.

 

III-2. They thought, "Ours alone is this victory, ours alone is this glory". Brahman knew this their pride and appeared before them, but they knew not who this Yaksha (worshipful Being) was.

 

III-3. They said to Agni: "O Jataveda, know thou this as to who this Yaksha is". (He said:) "So be it."

 

III-4. Agni approached It. It asked him, "Who art thou?" He

replied, "I am Agni or I am Jataveda".

 

III-5. (It said:) "What is the power in thee, such as thou

art?" (Agni said:) "I can burn all this that is upon the earth."

 

III-6. For him (It) placed there a blade of grass and said: "Burn this". (Agni) went near it in all haste, but he could not burn it. He returned from there (and said:) "I am unable to understand who that Yaksha is".

 

III-7. Then (the gods) said to Vayu: "O Vayu, know thou this as to who this Yaksha is". (He said:) "So be it".

 

III-8. Vayu approached It. It said to him, "Who art thou?" He replied, "I am Vayu or I am Matarsiva".

 

III-9. (It said:) "What is the power in thee, such as thou

art?" (Vayu said:) "I can take hold of all this that is upon the earth".

 

III-10. For him (It) placed there a blade of grass and said:

"Take this up". (Vayu) went near it in all haste, but he could not take it up. He returned from there (and said:) "I am unable to understand who that Yaksha is".

 

III-11. Then (the gods) said to Indra: "O Maghava, know thou this as to who this Yaksha is". (He said:) "So be it". He approached It, but It disappeared from him.

 

III-12. In that space itself (where the Yaksha had disappeared) Indra approached an exceedingly charming woman. To that Uma decked in gold (or to the daughter of the Himalayas), he said: "Who is this Yaksha?"

 

IV-1. She said: "It was Brahman. In the victory that was

Brahman's you were revelling in joy". Then alone did Indra know for certain that It was Brahman.

 

In the above verse difference between demigods like Indra etc and omnipotent brahman is clearly mentioned. Indra, Agni and other are shown to be *** different *** and *** Absolutely dependent*** on Brahman. Even Uma wife of Lord Shiva praised as Shakti is different from Brahman.

 

Hence forms of Indra, Varuna, Agni etc....... ain't that of brahman.

 

For sruti declares the difference clearly.

 

So how can one interpret without compromising validity of each Sruti verse quoted above including the Rig Vedic verse ?

 

Here is one interpretation:

1) Agni, Indra, Varuna etc have brahman for their innermost self and hence are controlled and dependent on brahman in every way. Being thus dependent[given power and respective functioning capacity] and pervaded by brahman, the Supreme, they can be called brahman.

 

Gita 11.39

vayur yamo 'gnir varunah sasankah

You are air, fire, water, and You are the moon! ............

 

Gita 11.40

ananta-viryamita-vikramas tvam

sarvam samapnosi tato 'si sarvah

O thou of unilimited potency and infinite power, You pervade the entire universe, and thus You are everything.

 

Here again the idea of infinite power of brahman, His position as the inner controller of everything is clearly mentioned by calling him all-pervading. This is well verified in antaryami brahmana of brihadaranyaka upnaisad where Supreme[brahman] is taught to be inner self/controller of everything. And since every one dervies their power from brahman alone he is everything. Arjuna confirms this vedic truth in the gita verse.

 

Therefore one understanding of the verse can be that since brahman who is different from demigods like indra, varuna, agni etc..... being their inner self and controller and the source of their power etc, all these people can be said to represent him or aspects of him.

 

2) The words indra, varuna etc........ can be shown to be the names of brahman and not referring to the demigods agni, indra etc...... and hence the rig vedic verse means that Sad vastu brahman is known through *** its *** various names. Note words like Indra are name of Vishnu in Vishnu Sahsaranama. There is a specific sutra in Brahma Sutra which says that ultimate import of every word is Brahman.

 

Check out Brahma Sutra 2.3.17

 

"But that which abides in the things movable and immovable, i.e. the terms denoting those things, are non-secondary (i.e. of primary denotative power, viz. with regard to Brahman); since (their denotative power) is effected by the being of that (i.e. Brahman)."

 

 

These two interpretations of the verse is correct as it is well supported by Sruti and Gita.

 

Hence brahman is brahman only, and is not indra, agni, varuna etc....... brahman who is satyam jnanam anantam is to be worshipped as he is and not as indra, agni etc........ If we wish to worship brahman as indra, agni etc..... in forms which are *** not *** brahman himself we should follow the principle of antaryami brahmana

of brihadaranyaka upanisad. Otherwise its done with wrong

understanding.

 

The same is repeated:

Aiterya Aranyanka 3.2.3.12:

"For the Bahvrikas consider him (the self) in the great hymn (mahaduktha), the Adhvaryus in the sacrificial fire, the Khandogas in the Mahavrata ceremony. Him they see in this earth, in heaven, in the air, in the ether, in the water, in herbs, in trees, in the moon, in the stars, in all beings. Him alone they call Brahman."

 

Svetasvatara Upanishad 2.17

"The Self—luminous Lord, who is in fire, who is in water, who has entered into the whole world, who is in plants, who is in trees—to that Lord let there be adoration! Yea, let there be adoration."

 

Gita 15.17-18

"But distinct is the Highest Spirit spoken of as the Supreme Self, the indestructible Lord who penetrates and sustains the three worlds.Because I transcend the perishable and am even higher than the imperishable, therefore am I known in the world and in the Veda

as `Purushottama', the Highest Spirit."

 

 

In Gita Sri Krishna further says:

 

Chapter 7, Verse 20.

"Those whose minds are distorted by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures."

 

Chapter 7, Verse 21.

"I am in everyone's heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship the demigods, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to some particular deity."

 

Chapter 7, Verse 22.

"Endowed with such a faith, he seeks favors of a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone."

 

In the above three verse the essence of all upanisad, Gitopanisad re-confirms what is written in Brihad aranyaka and Kena Upanisad verses.

 

Demigods are ***different*** from and ***completely dependent*** upon Brahman[Krishna, Vishnu, Rama, Narayana, Vasudeva etc....]

 

And hence Krishna very appropriately says:

 

Gita 9.23

"O son of Kunti, those who worship devotedly different demigods, although with faith, they also actually worship Me alone, but it is without true understanding."

 

but what is the result of worshipping with wrong understanding:

 

"I am the only enjoyer and the only object of sacrifice. Those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down. " Gita 9.24

 

What does fall down means ? It means go back into cycle of birth and death.

 

So what is that transcendental nature that is to be known:

 

It is:

 

Svetasvatara Upanisad

 

III-8: I have realized this Great Being who shines effulgent like the sun beyond all darkness. One passes beyond death only on realizing Him. There is no other way of escape from the circle of births and deaths.

 

III-9: There is naught higher than or different from Him; naught greater or more minute than Him. Rooted in His own glory He stands like a tree, one without a second and immovable. By that Being the whole universe is filled.

 

Also in Gita the essence of all upanisad:

 

Gita 8.9

"One should meditate upon the Supreme Person as the one who knows everything, as He who is the oldest, who is the controller, who is subtler than the subtlest, who is the maintainer of everything, who has inconceivable form. He is luminous like the sun and, is transcendental to this material nature."

 

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[krishnadasa]

Hare krisna

 

Well done sumit

 

Keep it up!

 

 

May Lord Krishna bless u with all boons

 

Hari bol

[Guest guest]

SU III, 3-4

i) 3. On all sides eye, on all sides face,

on all sides arms, on all sides feet,

he, God, the One, creates heaven and earth,

forging them together with arms and wings.

4. He who is source and origin of the Gods,

the Lord of all, Rudra, the mighty sage,

who produced in ancient days the Golden Germ--

may he endow us with purity of mind!