is homosexuality acceptable

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Hare Krishna

It is for sure we do have different understanding, I do not belong to any of the groups I do not know any of the gurus that you have mentioned far for me to comment on what they say, it is suffice for me to know that a guru is very compensate he would not reject any one but it is also guaranteed a true guru will help him give up his bad habits just like Narad made Valmiki robber in to a rishi or Mugrari who took pleasure in half killing the animals in to a saint by asking them to give up their sin full activities and he did not encourage them carry on as usual, that is my point.

 

As for sanyasy associating with women see the result for your self.

 

 

Dharma Artha Kama and Moksa are four purashatha neglect dharma moksa is beyond reach, embrace Adharma remain in the sansara.

 

As for Gopies they were liberated associates or great rishis they have Krishna even Udhav could not instruct them because they have PURE love for the lord.

Gita is spoken for us who are bound by maya in this material world.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(These terms do not apply to devotees, who while temporarily unable to give up material enjoyments are dedicated whole-heartedly to the Lord's service nevertheless.)

 

What is this "devotee" a licence to sin?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I dont have the slightest desire to convince you. all effort I took is done for gaydevotees to show that some of most respected Guru Maharajas have investigated this matter and are more broadminded.

 

If just one gaydevotee has read this and former post then, then this is fine. I thought I would be good to show some other sound.

 

I do not belong to any of the groups I do not know any of the gurus that you have mentioned far for me to comment on what they say,

 

 

 

Well then..If you are going in to debate, put some effort then. Whether I or you agree with them or not is not issue. At least people know that there are different views on this matter in vaisnavaworld.

 

I like to end this debate with some post of H.H. Hridayananda das Goswami.

 

There can be no doubt that a significant number of souls, whose external sexual orientation is homosexual, sincerely strive to be Krishna conscious. It is entirely natural and predictable that a majority of these devotees, as with most heterosexual devotees, will not be suited for lifelong celibacy.

 

My view of this issue is as follows:

 

As a general rule, we should appreciate devotees in terms of the sincerity and diligence of their spiritual attempts, given the psychophysical circumstances of their life. In other words, in any condition of life, if a devotee sincerely strives to please Krishna, that devotee is to be admired.

It is the duty of any society to recognize, and thus encourage, the admirable behavior of its members. Monogamy, among devotees of any orientation, is an admirable achievement in the context of today’s promiscuous society, and should be thus appreciated and encouraged.

Given the need to balance strict varnasrama with liberal spirituality, I believe that ISKCON should recognize and encourage monogamy among all its members of whatever orientation, and that such recognition and encouragement should take appropriate forms that achieve both purposes: the maintenance of varnasrama and the encouraging of spiritual sincerity.

I am not convinced that marriage is the best means in all cases, but some serious, formal and public recognition and appreciation of gay monogamy is, in my view, in the best interest of ISKCON and its members.

With best wishes,

Hridayananda das Goswami

 

(Open letter, 12/11/2004) Chakra

 

 

My part in this debate has to end here. The things I wanted to show are shown.

 

HK

[Guest guest]

I agree with the spirit of your reply. But the question that inspired this thread was, "Is homosexuality acceptable?" And the answer is clearly NO. Under the regulative principles, it is possible for one to engage in heterosexual sex life. It is NOT possible for one to engage in homosexual sex and still remain within the regulative principles. This is my only point. Don't you think that any attempt to claim otherwise is only a negative symptom of the degraded age of Kali in which we now live?

 

 

SB 3.20.26 Purport:

 

"[T]he homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demonaic and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life."

[Guest guest]

I didn't read all the replies, but from my point of view, Hinduism is more tolerant and sympathetic towards homosexuals, as compared to Abrahamic religions ....

 

It's not okay to be a homosexual all your life, but Hindus are supposed to view humans with equanimity. Thus, they are encouraged to help homosexuals properly achieve the path to spiritual enlightment. We shouldn't condemn them. it's all about patience and tolerance.

 

 

[Guest guest]

sanatana dharma is tolerant because basically condemns the sin and not the sinner and because there's no ethernal hell..

 

but for dharma homosexuality is abominable..

[Guest guest]

Personally, I just don't like to use the word "condemn", because I feel like I'm grouping Hinduism along with the same concepts of Abrahamic religions. The word itself reminds me of damnation, or being punished into an eternal form of torture. At least that's what these Abrahamic people mean when they say "condemn."

 

I grew up in an area where Christians and Muslims were so obsessed with others going to hell, and every single thing you did was an abominable sin! I wasn't raised to think that Hinduism is like that, and I that this is something that makes Hinduism positively stand out. There are so many other inspiring and beautiful things I have read in the Gita. These orthodox Christians and Muslims I know are always constantly criticizing others, and making them feel like they're bad.

 

 

 

I would just rather say that homosexuality isn't permissible to Hinduism, as opposed to say that it's literally condemned.

 

[Guest guest]

"Personally, I just don't like to use the word "condemn", because I feel like I'm grouping Hinduism along with the same concepts of Abrahamic religions"

 

that could be a problem for someone, but the fact does not change

 

sanatana dharma does not condemn the living beings entangled in the matter because, ultimately, we are parts and parcels of god and we never lose such connection

 

but sanatana dharma is absolutely selective and discriminative about behaviours, tendences and attitudes.. much more than so called abrahmic religions

 

[Guest guest]

God made you this way so accept it. Ind=stead of spending time trying to change this, spend time in knowing Krishna.it doesnt matter who or how you are. Vibhishan wa Rakshas.Could he have helped it?Raam made him ever living and placed him in his lists of teh ideal Bhaktas.

 

Lord does not care of how or who yo uare.The Lord wants love.so soul.Love him who is true.love him who eternally cares for you irrespective of you being gay or whatever.

 

God loves all.And do not go over his wishes by carrying out acts that you can control and for the stuff you cannot control...its in shree Hari's hands.Lord Krishna loves all no matter what you are.

 

If you were born a dog and eating prasad in front of a temple and slowly adapted and liked hearing regular hymns of the lords praise im sure the lord would give you a a beautiful next life in which you could get closer with him if not call on the vihnuduts to bring your soul to his abode.Even a animal has a chance to reach to him so what to talk of us humans.

 

if you are gay you are gay.It doesnt matter as you cross no other boundry of dharm. Love the Lord he will definatly call on to you when your time comes to leave the body if you love him.

 

 

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(If you were born a dog and eating prasad in front of a temple and slowly adapted and liked hearing regular hymns of the lords praise im sure the lord would give you a a beautiful next life in which you could get closer with him if not call on the vihnuduts to bring your soul to his abode.Even a animal has a chance to reach to him so what to talk of us humans.

if you are gay you are gay.It doesnt matter as you cross no other boundry of dharm. Love the Lord he will definatly call on to you when your time comes to leave the body if you love him.)

 

Mere sentiment does not qualify one to reach the lord, follow dharma as given in the shastra, that is what Krishna ask one to do, If you love the Lord there is no room for the other let alone Adharma.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Rajashekhar]

[God made you this way so accept it.]

 

That is good advice.

 

[The Lord wants love]

 

What is this? The Lord needs love? If The Lord needs something, what kind of Lord is He?

 

[if you were born a dog and eating prasad in front of a temple and slowly adapted and liked hearing regular hymns]

 

Oh my God, here you go off the cliff completely. Why would anyone expect a dog to hear and understand the hymns? Perhaps the dog will love the music in time, but then how can the dog understand that the music and words are related to God?

[Guest guest]

Sir,

 

A friend of mine always told he has some problems with attraction to women, but never revealed anything clearly.

 

His style of writing is exactly that of yours, esp in glorifying Rama and writing Abhathama Pahartharam slogam.

 

Hence dont mistake me,I would like to know where you are.My friend is in Chennai.

 

Please dont mistake me that I am collecting details.This is my genuine concern and I cannot do anything with where u r put currently.

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

[God made you this way so accept it.]

That is good advice.)

 

God why do we always blame the lord for our condition, we are what we are of our own making through our desires, Did god made someone lame another a poor or rich, straight or gay? What kind of god would that be?

 

Yes it is good advise to accept the condition we are placed in, but it would be a better advise to do something about it

O Arjuna, know that Rajas is characterized by intense (selfish) activity and is born of desire and attachment. It binds the Jeeva by attachment to the fruits of work. (14.07)

Know, O Arjuna, that Tamas, the deluder of Jeeva, is born of inertia. It binds by ignorance, laziness, and (excessive) sleep. (14.08)

 

 

Re

[The Lord wants love]

What is this? The Lord needs love? If The Lord needs something, what kind of Lord is He?)

 

God loves us unconditionally, he goes with us and fulfills our desires, only us foolish people do not recognize that, love is a two-way thing if we reciprocate our joy would be boundless.

 

Re

[if you were born a dog and eating prasad in front of a temple and slowly adapted and liked hearing regular hymns]

Oh my God, here you go off the cliff completely. Why would anyone expect a dog to hear and understand the hymns? Perhaps the dog will love the music in time, but then how can the dog understand that the music and words are related to God? )

 

Power of mantra can not be underestimated, just as a bomb falling in a particular place will not discriminate if it is a friend or a foe and destroy everything in its way so will mantra will have effect, even if not immediately but the process of uplifting will begin, but I understand your sentiment here.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[sporkubus]

Hi, I'm new here. I'll introduce myself later sometime, but for now I just wanted to state my opinion on this while the topic is still active.

 

The first thing you should remember is not to feel like a bad person for having homosexual desires. A homosexual desire is no more "impure" or "sinful" than a heterosexual desire. People think somehow that it is more possible to achieve moksha or good karma while having straight sex than it is while having gay sex. The fact is, they are both attachments and in the grand scheme of things, they are both negative. However, it is up to you to decide what you want to achieve in this lifetime and to do what you feel is your duty.

 

In my opinion there are a lot of good ways to live as a homosexual without remaining celibate (though this is always an option). You should do the best you can and never give in to over-indulgent desires or lustful behavior. Be monogamous, have a mutually satisfying relationship, and continue to consider spiritual matters.

 

I think it is odd that you would pray to God to have your desires removed. Homosexuality is a desire just like any other, and the scriptures prescribe a multitude of ways to control your desires. I don't beleive it's possible to remove a desire completely, but it is possible to be unmoved by desire. According to the Bhagavad-Gita, "Desire flows into the mind of the seer/But he is never disturbed." Do the best you can, don't hate yourself, and continue to stride toward Brahman without shame.

[Guest guest]

Power of mantra can not be underestimated, just as a bomb falling in a particular place will not discriminate if it is a friend or a foe and destroy everything in its way so will mantra will have effect, even if not immediately but the process of uplifting will begin, but I understand your sentiment here.

 

 

 

I repect GP and others but have to react. "Dog likes mantras and mantras and mantras are like bombs " ? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

Just as a bomb??? Why comparing two totally different things ?

 

You could easily compare it to a egg. For example : "just like a egg, a mantra has content that cannot be seen from the outside etc." Sounds good, right ?

 

But... an egg also breaks easy and will rott away quickly, do you agree with this also ?

 

And how about : just like a bomb a mantra is something that is dangerous and should best be avoided. Agree?

 

Nice story :

 

Teacher goes to father. Sorry mr. your son is not doing fine at school. I wanna give him xtra lessons. Father : O no, teacher. That is not good. Teacher: why not? Father : you see. I had a car once and he drove well but not as good as he supposed to do. So I took him to the garage and after that it went better but a month later I could throw him away! So my son is like this car. The more you try to fix the more it get brooke. Please leave it. It will go just fine ".

 

Silly comparison but it sounds good.

 

Just using on comparison that sounds good prooves nothing.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Good post Sporkubus. Full of wisdom and it still has some hinduflavor too.

 

It is this part of Hinduism that sounds more reasonable.

[sporkubus]

I'm not a Hindu but I've been studying Hinduism for a while now... it is absolutely an amazing tradition, and I'm learning new things about myself and the world around me every time I read another line of scripture or another saint's golden words.

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

 

Re

(I repect GP and others but have to react. "Dog likes mantras and mantras and mantras are like bombs " ? )

 

The respect is mutual.

 

The dog story is not my idea; I only expanded on something that although sounded so ridiculous but still not beyond the power of Mantra

No one said dogs like mantra, and I never implied mantras are like bombs.

 

 

Re

 

(Just as a bomb??? Why comparing two totally different things ? )

 

Simple both has power; one is destructive the other is creative and both work on the environment, destruction is easy to see construction takes time. Comparison was to see the effect.

 

Re

(You could easily compare it to a egg. For example : "just like a egg, a mantra has content that cannot be seen from the outside etc." Sounds good, right ?)

 

Yes I could have.

Vedic mantra always sounds good.

 

Re

(But... an egg also breaks easy and will rott away quickly, do you agree with this also ? )

 

But unlike egg sound never rotes.

 

Re

(And how about : just like a bomb a mantra is something that is dangerous and should best be avoided. Agree? )

 

No sir, mantra is never dangerous have a look at the meaning of Mantra then we can talk.

 

Re

 

(Nice story :

Teacher goes to father. Sorry mr. your son is not doing fine at school. I wanna give him xtra lessons. Father : O no, teacher. That is not good. Teacher: why not? Father : you see. I had a car once and he drove well but not as good as he supposed to do. So I took him to the garage and after that it went better but a month later I could throw him away! So my son is like this car. The more you try to fix the more it get brooke. Please leave it. It will go just fine ".

Silly comparison but it sounds good.

Just using on comparison that sounds good prooves nothing)

 

 

In other words you doubt the power of mantra The sound has this soothing effect on environment, the melodious Vedic mantras are powerful but you do not have to take my word for it, the proof is in the pudding.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

Mmm.. suggestions?

You are neither a sincere devotee or a sincere gay. That is obvious. If you were a sincere devotee your attraction to material sense enjoyment would not play an important part in your life. You would not be disclosing your material desires in public. You are not a sincere gay either because you recognize that, to indulge in such desires would conflict with your faith.

The behavioural guidelines put there by the Lord in the form of spiritual tenets or as enjoined in shastra, (the Gita, Quaran, Bible etc) is meant to elevate the individual to a better understanding of the reality of ones own condition, thus by acting on that knowledge, one is eventually liberated. One symptom of such a desirable condition is ones repulsion to hearing and talking nonsense subject matter, such as engaging others in discussions about their own homosexual tendencies. One's own thoughts, words and actions should be in connection with their service to the Lord. The homosexual tendency is only one of millions of material sense pursuits that befalls the bewildered souls.

So my suggestion ... move on.

 

Hare Nama!

 

[Guest guest]

my friend i want u to think of one thing...what do all the sects of hinduism preach? the main goal of an individual to attain mukti is to gain control over his five sences....when kama is spoken about , it is spoken about as a whole....there is no differenciation of straight from gay because kama is the physical attraction of one body over the other....so if ur aim isnot mukti then u dont need to worry about ur sexuality...iam a strong beliver of saivism....for me God is in us....when we gain control of ourself (our senses the God in us will reaveal Himself)....God is beyond sexuality.....it is true devotion...when u turn into a true devotee these questions will no longer remain questions...

 

one thing i would strongly advice is ask this question to ur self...the God within u will definitely help....just to give u confedence i want to tell u a small story....2 brothers were on their way....one decided to go to temple and the other to a prostite....the one who when to the temple had all this thoughts on him bro (thinking what he would be doing with the lady)...the guy with the pros had his thoughts on his bro who went to temple(tinking about darshan and prashatha)...ultimately the one with the pros got more blessings.....

 

dont confuse urself....people will tell u all what they thik is correct....listen to then but remember that not all what they say is correct....one is born again due to his desires in his previous birth....quench ur thirst and then sit before God and allow Him to concuire u completely..

 

to attain perfection sex on the whole has to be conquires...this applies for my heterosextual friends also....so let the river flow...at last, no matter how many curves it take...it will reach the ocean.....whay is physical is maya....a time will come when u will over come it....keep praying to him...ur thirst for same sex will be fulfilled in tis birht and u will be born again in the environment which ur heart acks for if u work for it.....

 

conclusion:hinduism didnt divide sexuality in to hom or hetro just because sex on the who has to be concuired no matter of what type it is....lust is maya...both hetro and homo sexualities are maya....if one understands this then there is peace...peace both within and outside...

 

Om Nama Shivaya......the One who has no begining nor end....

[Guest guest]

In other words you doubt the power of mantra The sound has this soothing effect on environment, the melodious Vedic mantras are powerful but you do not have to take my word for it, the proof is in the pudding.

 

 

 

 

Mantra has power? O yes, but more in the way music has.

 

Melodies of songs can influence our mood and in some cases hypnotise us.

 

Words can have influence too on our mind too, provided we have the right association with them. It is not the word but the association we have with that word that counts. The english word "stool" will invoke another image in another language. Same sound, other image.

 

The national anthem in a nice melody and setting can invoke nationalistic feelings. Romantic music can create the difference between sleeping alone or a night full of passion /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

 

Mantrameditation can have a certain effect but think..who is really responsible for it?

[Guest guest]

And another one who from a hinduperspective does not use double standard for homo and hetero. Good post!

 

[Guest guest]

conclusion:hinduism didnt divide sexuality in to hom or hetro just because sex on the who has to be concuired no matter of what type it is....lust is maya...both hetro and homo sexualities are maya....if one understands this then there is peace...peace both within and outside...

 

 

 

Compliment of not using double standard was for this guy BTW

[Guest guest]

the absolution of some of these replies shock me, it seems like some of you are merely looking for a cure (not enlightenment) for something that is not an illness. in teaching bhagavad gita there is no interpretation, it is bhagavad gita. your search should be for godhead not for materialistic idealities. in a religeon that tells wisdom and intelegence as positive. allot of you are disgracing yourselves with ure biast. I am gay But this has no bearing on my meditation or yogic practices as i will be free from all worldly burdons of lust and ownership.

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(Mantra has power? O yes, but more in the way music has.

Melodies of songs can influence our mood and in some cases hypnotise us.)

 

While the mundane music does have the power of influence, but it is very temporary in nature.it agitates the senses, desires overtakes and leads in to frustration.

Mantras have a wonderful affect it awakens the dormant spiritual nature, not only it benefit the recitar but the immediate sounding is also purified

 

Re

(Words can have influence too on our mind too, provided we have the right association with them. It is not the word but the association we have with that word that counts. The english word "stool" will invoke another image in another language. Same sound, other image. )

 

True it is very easy to misconstrue such is the nature of this world, but mantras are different it means freeing of mind, it invokes spirituality even though one does not know the true meaning of it. As for chanting Hare Krishna, Sita Ram, Om namo Shivaya here we do not need any explanation. Benefits can not be measured only the chanter can tell you the bliss it brings. The proof is in the pudding.

 

Re

(The national anthem in a nice melody and setting can invoke nationalistic feelings. Romantic music can create the difference between sleeping alone or a night full of passion . )

 

But off course and night of passion does not last for long unfortunately. There is a price to pay for it in so many different ways.and then you have to face the music of other kind like the nagging wife or screaming babies. Don’t get me wrong it has its moments but such is the nature of this world nothing last forever.

 

 

Re

(Mantrameditation can have a certain effect but think..who is really responsible for it? )

 

 

 

It will have a lasting effect, there is no loss we are responsible for our own welfare, it has a positive effect not only for the self but the sounding environment also, just as nice scent will effect its surrounding so will the mantras, so chant and be happy.

 

Jai Shree Krishna