Mayavadi Defeated?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

You think everything is one. You don't accept anything can have anything to do with anything else.

 

I want to ask you one simple question:

 

From where did Maya come [which is an energy]?

 

 

[Rajashekhar]

Govindram wrote:

 

"Are you serious? I feel like I am talking to some half-wit now. Krishna didn't age past 26. if you want to talk about Vedas, please talk in a coherent manner. You are simply being offensive now. I don't wish any further talks with you. Please understand everything I have said. And accept Brahman CAN have form, and be formless at the same time. This is achintya.."

 

Krishna dod not age past 26, eh? And you are saying I am half-wit? My good Sir, Krishna was a human being. Which is why he died. In the meanwhile if you believe that he grew up to be 26 and stopped aging at 26, I have a piece of land on the moon I want to sell you.

 

Apparently you are not on the path of discovering truth. You think you already have the truth in your possession. So I will leave you to enjoy the dream-world you have occupied.

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I only called you this to show how ignorant you only are.

 

You don't accept Krishna, yet read the Gita and process to know it. I suggest you burn all your Gitas. For you they are all usless books. And so are you. You have been infected with Mayavadi and don't even know it. Maybe and I wish that you met a pure devotee of Krishna, who can guide you further<<< Seeya later.

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(I suggest you burn all your Gitas. For you they are all usless books. And so are you. You have been infected with Mayavadi and don't even know it. )

 

Govindaram you are too emotional, you start this thread Mayavadi defeated(what ever that means)but you defeat your self.

How can you suggest to burn the Gita, it is outrageous.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Govindram ji

 

Your mind is full of maya energy. It issues from there.

 

Just joking.

 

Above you said: material energy issues from Lord. I asked you who that material belongs to?

 

 

Now you start asking about energy. Can we not solve one problem at a time?

[Rajashekhar]

Govindram wrote:

 

[ only called you this to show how ignorant you only are.

 

[You don't accept Krishna, yet read the Gita and process to know it. I suggest you burn all your Gitas. For you they are all usless books. And so are you. You have been infected with Mayavadi and don't even know it. Maybe and I wish that you met a pure devotee of Krishna, who can guide you further<<< Seeya later. ]

 

Why would I want to burn the Gita? There is some truth in it. There is some truth in every religious book, including the Koran and the Bible. But no religion has a proprietary right to the Untruth. Let's face it: All religions have some Untruth, or false bases. Hinduism is no exception. Except Hinduism probably has more truth than many other religions.

 

Trust me, if I met a pure Krishna devotee, I would not pay him any more attention than to a pure Jesus Christ devotee. To me, Krishna and Rama were both humans, just like Jesus Christ was.

[Guest guest]

 

Trust me, if I met a pure Krishna devotee, I would not pay him any more attention than to a pure Jesus Christ devotee. To me, Krishna and Rama were both humans, just like Jesus Christ was.

 

 

Then this is your opinion. Individual opinions are theirs alone and not factual.

 

Gita and Vedas are apouresheya and are considered as prime pramanas. Their verdict is final. According to Vedas Krishna or Narayana is GOD.

[Guest guest]

"Trust me, if I met a pure Krishna devotee, I would not pay him any more attention than to a pure Jesus Christ devotee"

 

the important thing is that you pay attention...

[Rajashekhar]

Some person who wants to remain anonymous wrote:

 

[Then this is your opinion. Individual opinions are theirs alone and not factual.

 

[Gita and Vedas are apouresheya and are considered as prime pramanas. Their verdict is final. According to Vedas Krishna or Narayana is GOD. ]

 

The standing opinion is that the Vedas are Apourasheya. The Vedas are their own Pramana and do not require any other Pramana. But Gita is not Veda. Gita, which is basically a summary of the Upanishads, is Smrithi. The Vedas are considered Shruthi.

 

The Vedas do not say Krishna is God, although there are upanishads like Narayana, Krishna or Vasudeva Upanishads have made such comments. But they are not considered major Upanishads either. Many such Upanishads were added to the Vedanta much later, many years after the demise of Krishna. On the other hand, there are also Upanishads like Ramopanishad that talk about Rama being the Supreme Lord.

 

The bottom line of each text glorifying some aspect of divinity is to show what Rudra - Namaka has basically taught; that God is everywhere.

[Guest guest]

 

The standing opinion is that the Vedas are Apourasheya. The Vedas are their own Pramana and do not require any other Pramana. But Gita is not Veda. Gita, which is basically a summary of the Upanishads, is Smrithi. The Vedas are considered Shruthi.

 

The Vedas do not say Krishna is God, although there are upanishads like Narayana, Krishna or Vasudeva Upanishads have made such comments. But they are not considered major Upanishads either. Many such Upanishads were added to the Vedanta much later, many years after the demise of Krishna. On the other hand, there are also Upanishads like Ramopanishad that talk about Rama being the Supreme Lord.

 

The bottom line of each text glorifying some aspect of divinity is to show what Rudra - Namaka has basically taught; that God is everywhere.

 

 

Even if Gita is not considered Sruti, it is a primary Pramana in Vedanta. No AchArya has made a statement to the effect hat some verse in Gita is to be rejected. All of the Gita is considered as PramAnA by every AchAryA of VedantA.

 

So if some fool comes and tells that Gita is not PramAnA, nobody will agree.

 

As for Rudra, Rig Veda 7:40:5 clearly stated that Rudra deva owes his power by worshipping VISNU.

[Guest guest]

****** As for Rudra, Rig Veda 7:40:5 clearly stated that Rudra deva owes his power by worshipping VISNU. ******

 

The verse says: we propitiate Visnu as he is the power of Rudra and not that Rudra worships Vishnu. Go and read the sanskrit verse again. "We propitiate the swift moving God Vishnu, as he is the sakti of Rudra".

 

 

If your translation is correct then why another verse says: "Rudra the Self dependent god"? "The undefeatable"?; "the good, the best"?

 

A self dependent god is not dependent. Simple. It is his power that gives him strength.

 

 

 

And Brahma sutra gives away the lie again. Hari's power of cognition, desire, and seed -- the Rama Devi, is under control of bhagwan Sambhu -- the Saktiman purusa.

 

Vishnu is Rudra's arrow and power. And Rudra is Visnu. Rudra himself is spoken of as cipivista.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

****** As for Rudra, Rig Veda 7:40:5 clearly stated that Rudra deva owes his power by worshipping VISNU. ******

 

The verse says: we propitiate Visnu as he is the power of Rudra and not that Rudra worships Vishnu. Go and read the sanskrit verse again. "We propitiate the swift moving God Vishnu, as he is the sakti of Rudra".

 

 

 

asya devasya m&#299;&#7735;hu&#7779;o vay&#257; vi&#7779;&#7751;ore&#7779;asya prabh&#7771;the havirbhi&#7717; |

vide hi rudro rudriya&#7747; mahitva&#7747; y&#257;si&#7779;&#7789;a&#7747; vartira&#347;vin&#257;vir&#257;vat |

 

With offerings I propitiate the branches of this swift-moving God, the bounteous Visnu.

Hence Rudra gained his Rudra-strength: O Asvins, ye sought the house that hath celestial viands

 

What does "vide hi rudro rudriyam mahitvam" mean Atanu ? I leave it to you. Can you see that "rudriyam mahitvam" means Rudra deva's glory or strength. It is preceeded by the word "Rudro". Why the word "Rudra" is repeated two times sequentially in different grammatical forms, if Lord Visnu is merely Rudra deva's strength or power.

 

So we can clearly see what is meant here is that "Visnu is the source of Rudra deva's strength". That is what is meant here.

 

As for other verses from Yajur Veda it does not negate the above verse.

 

 

And Brahma sutra gives away the lie again. Hari's power of cognition, desire, and seed -- the Rama Devi, is under control of bhagwan Sambhu -- the Saktiman purusa.

 

 

 

There is no such verse in Brahma sutra unless you twisted it like a pretzel to get your imaginary meaning out.

 

 

Vishnu is Rudra's arrow and power. And Rudra is Visnu. Rudra himself is spoken of as cipivista.

 

 

Yajur veda again. Visnu spoken of as Rudra's arrow in Vedas is again in context of Tripurasura vada, where Siva was not able to slay this asura by himself. So he worshipped Visnu to reside in his arrow and enable him to slay the asura. Vedas are to be known through satvika puranas, as in some cases the context is not clear.

[Guest guest]

******** So we can clearly see what is meant here is that "Visnu is the source of Rudra deva's strength". That is what is meant here ***********

 

Now compare what you wrote earlier "Rudra gains his strength by worshipping Vishnu".

 

You have come around. And Vishnu is Rudra devas power as is Varuna and as is Pusan and as is Aditi and is Indra. He has 33 powers.

 

 

********* As for other verses from Yajur Veda it does not negate the above verse. **************

 

RV Mandala 7 hymn 46

 

1. To Rudra bring these songs, whose bow is firm and strong, the self-dependent God with swiftly-flying shafts, The Wise, the Conqueror whom none may overcome, armed with sharp-pointed weapons: may he hear our call.

2 He through his lordship pervades in all things and beings on the earth, on heavenly beings through his high imperial power.

 

The self dependent god, who has powers of his own.

 

 

Yajur Veda i. 8. 6. d Rudra alone yieldeth to no second.

 

 

Whereas Visnu lauds and sings of Indra

 

Rig Veda Book 8 HYMN XV. Indra.

1. SING forth to him whom many men invoke, to him whom many laud. Invite the powerful Indra with your songs of praise.

 

9 Visnu, Varuna, Mitra sing thy praise: In thee the Maruts' company have great delight.

 

RV Book 10 HYMN CXTII. Indra.

1. THE Heavens and the Earth accordant with all Gods encouraged graciously that vigorous might of his. When he came showing forth his majesty and power, he drank of Soma juice and waxed exceeding strong.

 

2 This majesty of his, Visnu extols and lauds, making the stalk that gives the meath flow forth with might

 

 

 

 

*********** In reply to:

--

 

And Brahma sutra gives away the lie again. Hari's power of cognition, desire, and seed -- the Rama Devi, is under control of bhagwan Sambhu -- the Saktiman purusa.

--

 

There is no such verse in Brahma sutra unless you twisted it like a pretzel to get your imaginary meaning out.

 

************************

 

You determine your own meaning please:

 

SRI BRAHMA SAMHITA Book 1 TEXT 8.

 

niyatih sa rama devi

tat-priya tad-vasam tada

tal-lingam bhagavan sambhur

jyoti-rupah sanatanah

ya yonih sapara saktih

kamo bijam mahad hareh

 

 

Devi is the desire, the seed, and the faculty of cognition of Hari – Mahat. And She, the Sakti – the regulator (Niyati) is under the control of lingam rupi eternal Bhagwan Shambhu. She is the potency of Mahat Hareh.

 

 

 

********** So he worshipped Visnu to reside in his arrow and enable him to slay the asura. Vedas are to be known through satvika puranas, as in some cases the context is not clear. ***************

 

 

Show us this from Shruti. Show this.

 

 

 

Truth comes up sooner or later.

 

Now you have said "So we can clearly see what is meant here is that "Visnu is the source of Rudra deva's strength". That is what is meant here"

 

Whereas you wrote earlier "Rudra gains his strength by worshipping Vishnu".

 

 

How long?

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

Truth comes up sooner or later.

 

Now you have said "So we can clearly see what is meant here is that "Visnu is the source of Rudra deva's strength". That is what is meant here"

 

Whereas you wrote earlier "Rudra gains his strength by worshipping Vishnu".

 

 

How long?

 

 

 

Is your mind so overcome with attachment to Rudra deva that you cannot understand what I said.

 

There is a difference between saying that "Visnu is the source of Rudra deva's power" and "Visnu is Rudra Deva's power".

 

The latter may mean that Visnu is simply manifestation of Rudra's glory.

 

While the former clearly shows that VISNU is the the source, meaning Rudra Deva cannot do anything without Lord VISNU's blessing.

 

Why not read the Rig Veda verse itseld where it clearly says that By propitiating Visnu, Rudra deva gained his Rudra strenth (Rudro Rudriyam mahitvam). Please open your intelligence here instead of acting through emotion. Aparently you have no counter explanation for my clear argument.

 

rig veda 7:46

 

7.046.01 Offer these praises to the divine Rudra, armed with the strong bow and fast-flying arrows, the bestower of food, the invincible, the conqueror, the creator, the wielder of sharp weapons; may he hear our (praises).

7.046.02 He is known by his rule over those of terrestrial birth, by his sovereignty over those of celestial (origin); protecting our progeny, Rudra, propitiating you (by praise), come to our dwellings, and be to them a guardian against disease.

 

These verses do not go against 7:40:5, because Rudra Deva gained this Rudra strenth by worshipping Visnu as per the Sruti.

 

 

Yajur Veda i. 8. 6. d Rudra alone yieldeth to no second.

 

Whereas Visnu lauds and sings of Indra

 

 

So. Visnu praises HIS devotees when they deserve, not bacause HE is lower than those Devatas.

 

As for Rudra Deva, he also praises his devotees. Infact Rudra deva clearly worships Visnu in 7:40:5.

 

 

And Brahma sutra gives away the lie again. Hari's power of cognition, desire, and seed -- the Rama Devi, is under control of bhagwan Sambhu -- the Saktiman purusa.

--

 

There is no such verse in Brahma sutra unless you twisted it like a pretzel to get your imaginary meaning out.

 

************************

 

You determine your own meaning please:

 

SRI BRAHMA SAMHITA Book 1 TEXT 8.

 

 

Brahma Sutra and Brahma Samhita are completely different texts.

 

I think Atanu, you should know which scripture is which before you argue with ridiculous logic.

 

Brahma Samhita, according to my limited knowledge, is not dependable scripture as it simply goes against Sruti. If I said anything wrong may the Vaisnavas forgive me.

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Namaskar Atanu

 

I notice with intrest your questions remains un answered

 

 

********** So he worshipped Visnu to reside in his arrow and enable him to slay the asura. Vedas are to be known through satvika puranas, as in some cases the context is not clear. ***************

 

 

Show us this from Shruti. Show this.

 

And same guest rejects other source you quoted as unrealiable because it goes against shruti.

 

I see explining away rather then accept what is written as truth by the guest,

The self dependent god, who has powers of his own.

 

 

Yajur Veda i. 8. 6. d Rudra alone yieldeth to no second.

 

There no room for speculation.

 

 

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Guest guest]

Sri Govindram, Sir, can you please explain what is Mayavadi and what is Maya. You sound like a veery knowledgeable person like Mr. Atanu who calls himself Aum Nama Sivaya. Thank you most kindly, Sir.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Maya is an energy of Krishna. Mayavadis are people who like to speculate with the agnecy of this same energy, so they are called Mayavadis.

[Guest guest]

********* Brahma Sutra and Brahma Samhita are completely different texts.

 

I think Atanu, you should know which scripture is which before you argue with ridiculous logic.

 

Brahma Samhita, according to my limited knowledge, is not dependable scripture as it simply goes against Sruti. If I said anything wrong may the Vaisnavas forgive me. ****************

 

 

I have always felt that words such as ‘ridiculous etc. come to devotees of your ilk easily.

 

 

Yes, I went back and saw that I had committed a mistake. I wrote ‘sutra’ in place of ‘Samhita’. Well this mistake is also by grace of Lord. You have taken away a source of strength of Vaishnavas; excellent.

 

 

And I beg to be pardoned for the mistake.

 

 

Well if you do not accept SRI BRAHMA SAMHITA Book 1 TEXT 8 then so be it. Why do you then want to prove that Rudra worships Vishnu from Puranas? Since you have nothing except RV 7:40:5, which only you can try to distort and insert “worship”. Eh?

 

 

Unlike you, I do not consider that ‘the power and power wielder’ as different. It is your problem. My mind is attached to Rudra Deva and yours is eluded. You will always have problem. For us praise of Visnu is praise of Siva and vice versa. For us the energy and energetic are not two things.

 

 

 

 

Let us first see why Visnu lauds, extols and sings praise of Indra Deva.

 

 

*************************************************************

In reply to:

 

Yajur Veda i. 8. 6. d Rudra alone yieldeth to no second.

 

Whereas Visnu lauds and sings of Indra

So. Visnu praises HIS devotees when they deserve, not bacause HE is lower than those Devatas.

 

As for Rudra Deva, he also praises his devotees. Infact Rudra deva clearly worships Visnu in 7:40:5.

 

****************************************

 

 

 

 

About “Infact Rudra deva clearly worships Visnu in 7:40:5”, we will examine later.

 

 

Isn’t it funny that when confronted with verses which say Vishnu lauds and sings of Indra, you say “So. Visnu praises HIS devotees when they deserve, not bacause HE is lower than those Devatas. “

 

 

But when others do so, they are servants?

 

You are not only funny but you are lying. Or may be you do not know that Indra is the overlord of Visnu as below.

 

 

 

 

Yajur Veda iv. 3. 9.

 

a Thou art the portion of Agni, the overlordship of consecration, the holy power saved, the threefold Stoma.

b Thou art the portion of Indra, the overlordship of Visnu, the lordly power saved, the fifteen fold Stoma.

-----------------------

 

 

And in the light of above fact that Indra is the overlord of Visnu, read the following three verses.

 

 

 

Rig Veda Book 8 HYMN XII. Indra.

 

--------

27 When Visnu, through thine energy strode wide those three great steps, Then thy two beautiful Bay Steeds carried thee on.

 

 

Rig Veda Book 8 HYMN XV. Indra.

 

1. SING forth to him whom many men invoke, to him whom many laud. Invite the powerful Indra with your songs of praise.

 

9 Visnu, Varuna, Mitra sing thy praise: In thee the Maruts' company have great delight.

 

 

RV Book 10 HYMN CXTII. Indra.

 

1. THE Heavens and the Earth accordant with all Gods encouraged graciously that vigorous might of his. When he came showing forth his majesty and power, he drank of Soma juice and waxed exceeding strong.

 

2 This majesty of his, Visnu extols and lauds, making the stalk that gives the meath flow forth with might

 

 

 

 

Your ego will be broken. Know it as Lord Visnu’s grace. Since, with ego intact nothing can be attained.

 

 

 

 

 

*********** Is your mind so overcome with attachment to Rudra deva that you cannot understand what I said. *************

 

 

 

If the mind is overcome with attachment to Rudra then it is most auspicious.

 

 

 

With respect to Rig Veda RV 7:40:5, you have said two things: The first as below.

 

 

********** There is a difference between saying that "Visnu is the source of Rudra deva's power" and "Visnu is Rudra Deva's power".

 

The latter may mean that Visnu is simply manifestation of Rudra's glory.

 

While the former clearly shows that VISNU is the the source, meaning Rudra Deva cannot do anything without Lord VISNU's blessing.

 

**************

 

 

Let us first accept your translation "Visnu is the source of Rudra deva's power"

 

 

And I will ask if Rudra cannot do anything with out the strength then what can the strength do without the one who is strong?

 

 

You who always talks about intelligence of others yourself is not intelligent. What to talk of opening up?

 

 

 

 

The second line of your argument which is not argument but interpolation comes repeatedly as below:

 

******************

Why not read the Rig Veda verse itseld where it clearly says that By propitiating Visnu, Rudra deva gained his Rudra strenth (Rudro Rudriyam mahitvam). Please open your intelligence here instead of acting through emotion. Aparently you have no counter explanation for my clear argument.

 

**************************

 

 

And then you repeat this interpolation again and again as below:

 

************** meaning Rudra Deva cannot do anything without Lord VISNU's blessing.

 

************

 

 

Why do you contradict yourself again and again? First in the last post you said "Visnu is the source of Rudra deva's power" and dropped worship. But surreptitiously (which is hallmark of you), you again introduce “worship” and “blessing”.

 

 

You yourself said (please see above if you wish to check): "rudriyam mahitvam" means Rudra deva's glory or strength. So, Visnu is Rudra Devas glory or strength and I accept this.

 

 

Your whole translation is untenable since as per Vedas ‘Rudra yields to no second’ and ‘Rudra is self dependent god’ and Rudra is good , the best among gods’. There is no question of Rudra worshipping a second. In 7:40:5, Visnu is propitiated by sages for being Rudra’s Rudra power. That’s all. And you have yourself said “Rudra has sovereignty over those of celestial (origin);”.

 

 

 

Rig veda 7:46 (This is your translation)

 

7.046.02 He is known by his rule over those of terrestrial birth, by his sovereignty over those of celestial (origin); protecting our progeny, Rudra, propitiating you (by praise), come to our dwellings, and be to them a guardian against disease.

 

 

And when:

 

Yajur Veda i. 8. 6. d Rudra alone yieldeth to no second.

 

 

 

The one who yieldeth to no second cannot worship a second. You disburser of profanity and falsifier of scripture; Bhagwan does not worship anyone. Saying so is blaspheme. You have nothing but one misrepresented translation to cite. This mis representation does not gel with Yajur Veda i. 8. 6. d Rudra alone yieldeth to no second.

 

 

 

 

I will repeat that the verse means "Visnu is Rudra Deva's power", since Rudra yieldeth to none and Rudra is self dependent god. The verse is: We propitiate Vishnu who is Rudras Rudra strength.

 

 

 

This is true, since Visnu and Indra (Adityas) have birth from Soma. Whereas Rudra is self existent, undefeatable, cipivista, self dependent, ruler of earthly and celestial beings and undecaying and Sarveswara, who yields to no second.

 

 

This is true in the light of all that follows. You may or may not wish to proceed further.

 

 

SOMA-PAVAMANA IS FATHER OF INDRA AND VISNU

 

RV Book 9 HYMN XCVI. Soma Pavamana

 

4 Flow for prosperity and constant Vigour, flow on for happiness and high perfection.

This is the wish of these friends assembled: this is my wish, O Soma Pavamana.

5 Father of holy hymns, Soma flows onward the Father of the earth, Father of heaven: Father of Agni, Surya's generator, the Father who begat Indra and Visnu.

 

 

AND ADITYAS ARE BRIGHT DUE TO THE GRACE OF SOMA-RUDRA.

 

Yajur Veda ii. 2. 10.

 

Yonder sun did not shine, the gods sought atonement for him, and for him they offered this oblation to Soma and Rudra: verily thereby they bestowed brightness upon him.

 

 

 

 

RUDRA IS SELF DEPENDENT GOD

 

RV Mandala 7 hymn 46

 

1. To Rudra bring these songs, whose bow is firm and strong, the self-dependent God with swiftly-flying shafts, The Wise, the Conqueror whom none may overcome, armed with sharp-pointed weapons: may he hear our call.

 

 

SIVA RUDRA ALONE ASSUMES THE NAMES OF BRAHMA, VISNU AND MAHESVARA

 

 

Bhagavatam

 

23. O lord, you are self-effulgent and supreme. You create this material world by your personal energy, and you assume the names Brahma, Visnu and Mahesvara when you act in creation, maintenance and annihilation.

 

24. You are the cause of all causes, the self-effulgent, inconceivable, Supreme Brahman. You manifest various potencies in this cosmic manifestation.

 

31. O Lord Girisa, since the impersonal Brahman effulgence is transcendental to the material modes of goodness, passion and ignorance, the various directors of this material world certainly cannot appreciate it or even know where it is. It is not understandable even to Lord Brahma, Lord Visnu or the King of heaven, Mahendra.

 

 

 

RUDRA IS THE FATHER

 

 

RV Book 6 HYMN XLIX. Visvedevas.

 

10 Rudra by day, Rudra at night we honour with these our songs, the Universe's Father. Him great and lofty, blissful, undecaying let us call especially as the Sage impels us.

 

 

 

RUDRA IS ONE WITHOUT A SECOND AND SUBJECT OF UPANISHADS

 

 

Mandukya Up.

 

6. This is the Lord of all; this is omniscient; this is the in-dwelling controller (of all); this is the source and indeed the origin and dissolution of all beings.

7. The Fourth is thought of as that which is not conscious of the internal world, nor conscious of the external world, nor conscious of both the worlds, nor dense with consciousness, nor simple consciousness, nor unconsciousness, which is unseen, actionless, incomprehensible, uninferable, unthinkable, indescribable, whose proof consists in the identity of the Self (in all states), in which all phenomena come to a cessation, and which is unchanging, sivam, and non-dual. That is the Self; that is to be known.

 

12. That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the Sivam and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

 

 

SU III, 3-4

 

i) 3. On all sides eye, on all sides face,

on all sides arms, on all sides feet,

he, God, the One, creates heaven and earth,

forging them together with arms and wings.

 

4. He who is source and origin of the Gods,

the Lord of all, Rudra, the mighty sage,

who produced in ancient days the Golden Germ--

may he endow us with purity of mind!

 

 

Kaivalya Up.

 

6. (Who is) unthinkable, unmanifest, of endless forms, the good, the peaceful, Immortal, the origin of the worlds, without beginning, middle, and end, the only one, all-pervading, Consciousness, and Bliss, the formless and the wonderful.

7. Meditating on the highest Lord, allied to Uma, powerful, three-eyed, blue-necked, and tranquil, the holy man reaches Him who is the source of all, the witness of all and is beyond darkness (i.e. Avidya).

 

 

AND WHAT OF MORTALS LIKE GUEST HERE EVEN GODS FORGET AND INSULT RUDRA. THAT IS THE NATURE OF EGO AND MIND

 

 

YV ii. 6. 8.

 

The gods excluded Rudra from the sacrifice; he pierced the sacrifice, the gods gathered round it (saying), 'May it be right for us.' They said, 'Well offered will this be for us, if we propitiate him.'

 

 

 

RUDRA IS AGNI AND HE IS THE BOLT OF INDRA AND HE IS THE STEP OF VISNU.

 

 

 

YV v. 4. 3. The fire is Rudra; he is born then when he is completely piled up; ----------

 

YV v. 4. 10. The fire is Rudra, and it is as if one stirs up a sleeping lion.

 

YV v. 5. 7. The fire is Rudra, his are three missiles, one that comes straight on, one that strikes transversely, and one that follows up.

 

YV i. 8. 15. a Thou art the bolt of Indra, slaying foes; with thee may he slay his foe.

 

c Thou art the stepping of Visnu, thou art the step of Visnu, thou art the stride of Visnu

 

 

 

 

AND VISNU WHO IS ALL PERVADING CIPIVISTA IS NONE OTHER THAN RUDRA

 

 

Yajur Veda iv. 5. 5.

 

f Homage to him who haunteth the mountains, and to Çipivista.

g Homage to the most bountiful, and to the bearer of the arrow.

 

 

 

Yajur Veda v. 5. 9.

 

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i The Rudra in the fire, in the waters, in the plants, the Rudra that hath entered all beings, to that Rudra be homage

 

 

 

 

For all others (who wish to abide by Rig Veda), I cite the following.

 

 

RV II, hymn 33

 

4 Let us not anger thee with worship, Rudra, ill praise, Strong God! or mingled invocation.

 

 

 

 

And please show from shruti where Lord Shiva prays to Vishnu to reside on his bow. This has also been requested by Ganesh Prasad ji.

 

 

Om Namah Sivayya

[Rajashekhar]

[sri Govindram, Sir, can you please explain what is Mayavadi and what is Maya. You sound like a veery knowledgeable person like Mr. Atanu who calls himself Aum Nama Sivaya. Thank you most kindly, Sir.]

 

I don't think Govindram understands the meaning of Maya, as he himself keeps asking that question over and over again. You can ask him a hundred times in the most polite and flattering tones but he still won't bother to teach the little he knows.

 

Maya is illusion. In Vedantic terms, the person does not understand that the True Truth is Atman and carries on with the business transactions with his/her spouse, children, parents, etc. When the person realizes that Atman is the Sath, then Maya is supposed to be lifted like the fog is lifted from the rays of the Sun, and the person becomes eligible for "Mukti".

 

There are philophical problems with this scenario but I won't confuse you any further.

[Guest guest]

Nicely summed..

 

***** There are philophical problems with this scenario but I won't confuse you any further. *********

 

I wish to add. Philosophical problems are of enquiring mind. In the 4rth stage beyond AUM, there are no letters (VAC) and no mind,and no philosophy. There only and only there it is truly Advaitam Sivam. Advaitam Narayanam.

 

The three eyed, trident bearing Lord takes one there. This state is ever with us. But associating self with three states of waking, dreaming, and deep sleep, one forgets the underlying fourth (not state but the TRUE) which is ever present SELF and sustainer and seer of the three states, which is not self.