brahma satyam jagan mithya

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

www.asitis.com Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Gives everything as well. Vaishnavas accept both ways, not only one.

 

SB.1.2.3

TRANSLATION

Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto him [suka], the spiritual master of all sages, the son of Vyasadeva, who, out of his great compassion for those gross materialists who struggle to cross over the darkest regions of material existence, spoke this most confidential supplement to the cream of Vedic knowledge, after having personally assimilated it by experience.

 

Purport [extract]

In this prayer, Srila Suta Gosvami practically summarizes the complete introduction of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Srimad-Bhagavatam is the natural supplementary commentary on the Vedanta-sutras. The Vedanta-sutras, or the Brahma-sutras, were compiled by Vyasadeva with a view to presenting just the cream of Vedic knowledge. Srimad-Bhagavatam is the natural commentary on this cream. Srila Sukadeva Gosvami was a thoroughly realized master on the Vedanta-sutra, and consequently he also personally realized the commentary, Srimad-Bhagavatam. And just to show his boundless mercy upon bewildered materialistic men who want to cross completely over nescience, he recited for the first time this confidential knowledge.

 

 

 

 

 

SB 3.32.28

jnanam ekam paracinair

indriyair brahma nirgunam

avabhaty artha-rupena

bhrantya sabdadi-dharmina

 

SYNONYMS

jnanam-knowledge; ekam-one; paracinaih-averse; indriyaih-by the senses; brahma-the Supreme Absolute Truth; nirgunam-beyond the material modes; avabhati-appears; artha-rupena-in the form of various objects; bhrantya-mistakenly; sabda-adi-sound and so on; dharmina-endowed with.

 

TRANSLATION

Those who are averse to the Transcendence realize the Supreme Absolute Truth differently through speculative sense perception, and therefore, because of mistaken speculation, everything appears to them to be relative.

 

PURPORT

The Supreme Absolute Truth, the personality of Godhead, is one, and He is spread everywhere by His impersonal feature. This is clearly expressed in Bhagavad-gita. Lord Krsna says, "Everything that is experienced is but an expansion of My energy." Everything is sustained by Him, but that does not mean that He is in everything. Sense perceptions, such as aural perception of the sound of a drum, visual perception of a beautiful woman, or perception of the delicious taste of a milk preparation by the tongue, all come through different senses and are therefore differently understood. Therefore sensory knowledge is divided in different categories, although actually everything is one as a manifestation of the energy of the Supreme Lord. Similarly, the energies of fire are heat and illumination, and by these two energies fire can display itself in many varieties, or in diversified sense perception. Mayavadi philosophers declare this diversity to be false. But Vaisnava philosophers do not accept the different manifestations as false; they accept them as nondifferent from the Supreme Personality of Godhead because they are a display of His diverse energies.

 

The philosophy that the Absolute is true and this creation is false (brahma satyam jagan mithya) is not accepted by Vaisnava philosophers. The example is given that although all that glitters is not gold, this does not mean that a glittering object is false. For example, an oyster shell appears to be golden. This appearance of golden hue is due only to the perception of the eyes, but that does not mean that the oyster shell is false. Similarly, by seeing the form of Lord Krsna one cannot understand what He actually is, but this does not mean that He is false. The form of Krsna has to be understood as it is described in the books of knowledge such as Brahma-samhita. Isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [bs. 5.1]: Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has an eternal, blissful spiritual body. By our imperfect sense perception we cannot understand the form of the Lord. We have to acquire knowledge about Him. Therefore it is said here, jnanam ekam. Bhagavad-gita confirms that they are fools who, simply upon seeing Krsna, consider Him a common man. They do not know the unlimited knowledge, power and opulence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Material sense speculation leads to the conclusion that the Supreme is formless. It is because of such mental speculation that the conditioned soul remains in ignorance under the spell of illusory energy. The Supreme Person has to be understood by the transcendental sound vibrated by Him in Bhagavad-gita, wherein He says that there is nothing superior to Himself; the impersonal Brahman effulgence is resting on His personality. The purified, absolute vision of Bhagavad-gita is compared to the River Ganges. Ganges water is so pure that it can purify even the asses and cows. But anyone who, disregarding the pure Ganges, wishes to be purified instead by the filthy water flowing in a drain, cannot be successful. Similarly, one can successfully attain pure knowledge of the Absolute only by hearing from the pure Absolute Himself.

 

In this verse it is clearly said that those who are averse to the Supreme Personality of Godhead speculate with their imperfect senses about the nature of the Absolute Truth. The formless Brahman conception, however, can be received only by aural reception and not by personal experience. Knowledge is therefore acquired by aural reception. It is confirmed in the Vedanta-sutra, sastra-yonitvat: one has to acquire pure knowledge from the authorized scriptures. So-called speculative arguments about the Absolute Truth are therefore useless. The actual identity of the living entity is his consciousness, which is always present while the living entity is awake, dreaming or in deep sleep. Even in deep sleep, he can perceive by consciousness whether he is happy or distressed. Thus when consciousness is displayed through the medium of the subtle and gross material bodies, it is covered, but when the consciousness is purified, in Krsna consciousness, one becomes free from the entanglement of repeated birth and death.

 

When uncontaminated pure knowledge is uncovered from the modes of material nature, the actual identity of the living entity is discovered: he is eternally a servitor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The process of uncovering is like this: the rays of sunshine are luminous, and the sun itself is also luminous. In the presence of the sun, the rays illuminate just like the sun, but when the sunshine is covered by the spell of a cloud, or by maya, then darkness, the imperfection of perception, begins. Therefore, to get out of the entanglement of the spell of nescience, one has to awaken his spiritual consciousness, or Krsna consciousness, in terms of the authorized scriptures.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Through your over enthusiasm, you bring to light the truth.

 

 

SB 3.32.28

jnanam ekam paracinair

indriyair brahma nirgunam

avabhaty artha-rupena

bhrantya sabdadi-dharmina

 

SYNONYMS

jnanam-knowledge; ekam-one; paracinaih-averse; indriyaih-by the senses; brahma-the Supreme Absolute Truth; nirgunam-beyond the material modes; avabhati-appears; artha-rupena-in the form of various objects; bhrantya-mistakenly; sabda-adi-sound and so on; dharmina-endowed with.

 

Below is given your translation: Compare this with your synonyms and you will see the falsity.

 

Your TRANSLATION

 

Those who are averse to the Transcendence realize the Supreme Absolute Truth differently through speculative sense perception, and therefore, because of mistaken speculation, everything appears to them to be relative.

 

 

 

The plain and simple nirgunam word has been removed and instead nirgunam is shown to mean : beyond the material modes. Foolish.

 

"artha-rupena-in the form of various objects; bhrantya-mistakenly; sabda-adi-sound and so on; dharmina-endowed with" is parsed as 'because of mistaken speculation, everything appears to them to be relative' (what that means no one may know).

 

 

 

 

The plain and simple and true translation (from the synonyms is):

 

 

SYNONYMS

jnanam-knowledge; ekam-one; paracinaih-averse; indriyaih-by the senses; brahma-the Supreme Absolute Truth; nirgunam-beyond the material modes; avabhati-appears; artha-rupena-in the form of various objects; bhrantya-mistakenly; sabda-adi-sound and so on; dharmina-endowed with.

 

To those ruled by senses who are averse to ekam knowledge, Supreme absolute truth, nirgunam, appears mistakenly to be endowed with various forms and sounds.

 

 

 

******** The philosophy that the Absolute is true and this creation is false (brahma satyam jagan mithya) is not accepted by Vaisnava philosophers. ************

 

 

As I said earlier, each time you come out of your guest clothing you expose your weaknesses. Earlier you showed words like 'rascal' etc. spoken. Now, you are again giving a chance.

 

 

Sankara never said: "brahma satyam jagan mithya".

 

Sankara said: "jagan mithya, Brahman satya, Brahman Jagat".

 

So, Sankara said the same thing as

 

 

SB 3.32.28

jnanam ekam paracinair

indriyair brahma nirgunam

avabhaty artha-rupena

bhrantya sabdadi-dharmina

 

 

To those ruled by senses who are averse to ekam knowledge, Supreme absolute truth, nirgunam, appears mistakenly to be endowed with various forms and sounds.

 

 

And

 

BG

 

18.20 Sarvabhooteshu yenaikam bhaavamavyayameekshate;

Avibhaktam vibhakteshu tajjnaanam viddhi saattwikam.

 

18.20. That by which one sees the one indestructible Reality in all beings, not separate in all the separate beings—know thou that knowledge to be Sattwic (pure).

 

 

 

 

Well done dear.

 

[Guest guest]

"Compare this with your synonyms and you will see the falsity."

 

control your words

 

[Guest guest]

Ha Ha

 

 

Please control your urge to expose yourself.

[Guest guest]

you can have answered in a way that seems you a funny way.. but the problem is still there: be careful to not blasphemy.. or you will suffer

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Can I ask where did Maya come from?

[Rajashekhar]

[you can have answered in a way that seems you a funny way.. but the problem is still there: be careful to not blasphemy.. or you will suffer]

 

This is almost childish. I did not see anything offensive in the statement "Compare this with your synonyms and you will see the falsity." made by the gentleman who calls himself "Om Namah Sivayya".

 

My recommendation is not to threaten others with consequences ('you will suffer' sounded like a threat to me), or abuse ('Dear Fool', for example) just because they point out an error or disagree with your point of view.

 

 

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

("Compare this with your synonyms and you will see the falsity."

 

control your words)

 

Why don't you tell us what is his offence.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

****** be careful to not blasphemy.. or you will suffer ******

 

It's ok.

 

I see your emotional attachment, which is good. But Lord gives importance to sama drishti.

 

Tommorow may be all right. And please please realise how another similar loving devotee of Sankara or Ramakrishna or Ramana will feel when you abuse them without logic.

 

I think you are young. But you are good. Sometimes try to see the other persons point of view also.

 

Wish you well.

 

[Guest guest]

you are simply reacting in an uselessly elaborate way to a simple neutral advice..

 

"be careful not to blasphemy ... or you will suffer" does not state that you are blaspheming

 

i never heard sri sankara acharya insulted in this forum and if insulting is a reaction to the insult made by someone else, the karma is not much different

 

"be careful " is a friendly advice... why react?

[Guest guest]

Nice friendly advice really. I understand it.

 

Thanks

[Guest guest]

You do not know niceness and civilty.

 

And you are coward. In the garb of guest you have abused all who do not toe your line -- not leaving sages even.

 

 

 

The point was about falsifying scripture -- Ommission of the word nirgunam (please check above).

 

When logic fails, one starts to issue empty threats. You keep your friendly advice. You will surely require it.

 

 

 

Namoh Vasudevayya

Om Namah Sivayya

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

do you prefere "be careful not to blasphemy" or "be careful to blasphemy"?

 

your mind is going back and forth... before you accepted the advice, then you've changed and lost sense control. Maybe you have to check your way of approaching spiritual matters if you have such problems..

 

Bhagavad Gita is a personalist vaishnava scripture... the word nirguna is not unusual for vaishnavas, god is obviously an individual full of qualities and simultaneously an omnipervasive energy, god is everything.

 

 

Many verses in the gita start with "bhagavan uvacha..", "the one who is has infinite opulences (features, gunas, powers) said.." and the title himself is "the song of bhagavan"..

And this Bhagavan says to surrender to Him, not to something else. So it is a desperate attempt to try to turn the Gita in something that suggest that the transcendental personality of Krsna is not the Supreme..

 

So nirguna, in this verse, who is surely harmonic with the whole meaning of the gita (=developing pure love for krishna through surrendering to him our whole life, karma, actions, thoughts and desires) means "without material (=illusory) features"...

 

and "without material features" can be said also "beyond material modes".

 

again be really a-dvaita.... consider the gita as a whole, not something to pick the verses that you judge useful to feed your beliefs

 

 

such friendly advice is obviously useful for me too.. i have no desire to criticize saints

[Guest guest]

I said that i understand your friendly advice well and then chose to explain.

 

You have now given meanings of nirgunam in your own style. But the main fact is that this nirgunam is not used in the translation of SB verse at all.

 

***** do you prefere "be careful not to blasphemy" or "be careful to blasphemy ******

 

 

Neither is correct english. I will give you friendly advice.

 

"Please do not blasphème and indulge in profanity by mis representing scripture"

 

And this applies to everyone including me.

 

 

Bye friend.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"You have now given meanings of nirgunam in your own style. But the main fact is that this nirgunam is not used in the translation of SB verse at all."

 

the answer was given... but obviously you are free to say that it was not given

 

""Please do not blasphème and indulge in profanity by mis representing scripture"

 

so do not do it.. do not turn personalist descriptions and concepts in impersonalism

 

follow krsna's advice...surrender to him, leave all other useless conceptions, he will protect you

 

(the same preaching is for me...)

[Guest guest]

Nirgunam word is related to gunas in much broader sense and not to personality.

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Means without material qualities. So how is it related to Guna? Its unrelated.

 

Without means no material, spiritual means maybe yes?

 

Never mind.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"Nirgunam word is related to gunas in much broader sense and not to personality."

 

that's exactly my point.

Bhagavad Gita is a hymn to transcendental personalism, so if we found in Gita the word nirguna, there's two solutions

 

1-bhagavad gita has contraddictions

2-nirguna in this context has nothing to do with the transcendental and infinite gunas of the lord

 

the fact that you think that there's something broader than personality, it means that you consider that personality can be only conditioned, human

 

but it is not true...personality can be absolute.. if the personality is not in god, how can it be in ourselves?

[Guest guest]

I said related. I did not say same.

 

One who is beyond Gunas and One who is controller of Gunas. One who holds the trident. Not merely spiritual.

 

 

 

Can you see Gunas? Gunas are also spiritual. Prakriti is unborn and spiritual also.

 

 

[Guest guest]

everything that really exists is unborn

 

so we have gunas related to something illusory, the material body..... and gunas related to something real... individual soul and supreme soul (who are sat cit ananda individuals with nama, guna, rupa, lila)

 

using the human language the word is the same

[Guest guest]

Mata Durge Sharnam Namoh

 

**** everything that really exists is unborn ******

 

That's great.

 

 

****** and gunas related to something real... individual soul and supreme soul (who are sat cit ananda individuals with nama, guna, rupa, lila ************

 

 

Let us search your individual soul enveloped in Gunas and then we may discuss.

 

 

And about supreme soul enveloped in Gunas , show us a shruti or from Gita.

 

 

SB 3.32.28

jnanam ekam paracinair

indriyair brahma nirgunam

avabhaty artha-rupena

bhrantya sabdadi-dharmina

 

 

Mata Durge Sharnam Namoh

[Guest guest]

why enveloped?

 

god is absolute, there's not marginal and essential, enveloped and envelope, external and internal in god

 

so he is his gunas, not that he's something different from them and he's enveloped by them

[Guest guest]

Not for the guest. Just for the record

 

Krishna IS NOT SEEN AS HE IS, BEING VEILED BY THE YOGA MAYA.

 

7.25 Naaham prakaashah sarvasya yogamaayaasamaavritah;

Moodho’yam naabhijaanaati loko maamajamavyayam.

 

 

7.25. I am not manifest to all as I am, being veiled by the Yoga Maya. This deluded world does not know Me, the unborn and imperishable.

 

 

But the truth is:

 

 

13.15 Sarvendriyagunaabhaasam sarvendriyavivarjitam; Asaktam sarvabhricchaiva nirgunam gunabhoktru cha.

 

13.15. Shining by the functions of all the senses, yet without the senses; unattached, yet supporting all; devoid of qualities, yet their experiencer,

 

 

PLEASE GIVE ATTENTION TO ‘NIRGUNAM GUNABHOKTRU CHA’: DEVOID OF QUALITIES, YET THEIR EXPERIENCER

 

 

13.32 Anaaditwaan nirgunatwaat paramaatmaayam avyayah; Shareerastho’pi kaunteya na karoti na lipyate.

 

13.32. Being without beginning and devoid of gunas, the Supreme Self, imperishable, though dwelling in the body, O Arjuna, neither acts nor is tainted!

 

ANAADITWAAN NIRGUNATWAAT PARAMAATMAAYAM

 

13.17 Avibhaktam cha bhooteshu vibhaktamiva cha sthitam; Bhootabhartru cha tajjneyam grasishnu prabhavishnu cha.

 

13. 17. And undivided, yet He exists as if divided in beings; He is to be known as the supporter of beings; He devours and He generates also.

 

 

 

Can a guest remain a permanent guest? Can delusion remain ever?

 

 

[Guest guest]

7.25. I am not manifest to all as I am, being veiled by the Yoga Maya. This deluded world does not know Me, the unborn and imperishable.

--krsna has not said that under the veil he's without transcendental qualities. Unborn and Imperishable for example are qualities.

[Guest guest]

 

 

Means person with Form.

 

Govindaram.