Possible Kurma Avatar??

[Guest guest]

Nonsense. If you are a school-student, you will be put into a class of a grade.

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this is in order to seperate those in the higher classes from those in the lower rungs of the grade, there by using the structure to encourage better work in school so one can move up the heirarchy. But still, it seperates and causes needless jealousy in some. Why cause jealousy and say people should stop it if one can stop it to begin with.

 

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A baby is not a baby but a soul incar.ed into this world. Varnas are the labels indicating how they were.

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this is true, but there is no way for someone to know what varna a baby was in his previous birth. dont assume that just because the baby was born rich, that automatically makes him better in his past life for him to end up there. There are many rich people who live through a hellish life of hidden problems, hence making those people possible lower caste citizens in their former life. One can never really knoe for sure about one's past life. Only you yourself can make an intelligent guess about it (and ultimately, thats all it is, a guess).

 

[Sephiroth]

Oh yes, you did. You spoke that one of the reason why the land could be sinking is because of Valcanoes (qouting Indonesia here) and Vishnu took form to keep it afloat. Pls read your 1st statement. I don't wish to call you a liar.

 

As for foreign oppression ... true to a certain degree. When Muslims invaded India, they destroy temples and oppressed the people. When British invaded India, they ban Ayurveda, calling it old-folks remedy and tried to implement their own medicine and science which they thought was superior.

 

However, despite of all those Oppression, India's culture and heritage survived and in process of making a comeback. So instead of talking past, all Indians should talk about the future and how to promote and strenght it.

 

India under Invaders' rules for 1,000 years, and it has been independant for 70+ years. I say it will take another 30 ~ 50 years for India to reach the minimun level it was in before the Invaders came. My guess.

 

As for righteous beliefs ... no comment. People believe what makes it easy for them to believe.

 

IF people which to believe that they are saved and booked a place in Heaven without doing anything ... what can you do? If notions of Reincarnation and karma makes them afraid, what can you say?

[Sephiroth]

I wish people who use other names besides Guest. Gives me a headache.

 

If you say there is other theories besides darwin's which explains evolution, Please Share. I believe there is none.

 

As for Darwin misinterpreted Vedas, I don't believe that is the case. Darwin travelled the world in search for floral and Fauna for his studies, NOT study of religion and religious texts which requires years to do so. So, Darwin's theory comes from his study of Nature, not the Vedas.

 

In history, it is said that Darwin travelled to places like America, America Latin, Galpagos Island and Australia. My guess is, that he is studying the difference of flora and fauna which is separated by continent, expecting to find major difference in them.

 

What he found (I believe) is similarites in structure and bases but modifications in functions based on regional conditions. Thus, he comes to conclude that all life comes from a similar source billions of years and underwent evolutions which separated it according to regional conditions.

[Guest guest]

"major quake could make the land sink which might be the reason people said that the Lord (Kurma) stopped the land from sinking all the way."

 

this is what i said. a major quake, possibly under water, could make the earth sink which is what is said in the stories. it is said that vishnu took the form to stpo the earth from sinking. the volcanos on indonesia were just extra info i wished to put in. not relevent to the present point. i think its best you read my 1st statement very carefully and try to imagine it before dismissing it as stupid stories

 

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So instead of talking past, all Indians should talk about the future and how to promote and strenght it.

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"a people that dont know their past, is like a tree without roots. it cant survive." -- Marcus Garvey

 

one must know where we've been in order to really know where we are and to know where we are going. while i agree, dwelling on past oppression and expecting compensation is not good at all, but forgetting it and moving on is not good either

[Sephiroth]

Your Major Quake Sinking the Land story doesn't match with Kurma Avatar.

 

For one thing, the gods put a mountain above water and Vishnu (in form of Kurma Avatar) stop it from sinking while they churn the ocean. There is NO earthquake, volcanoes or anything such involved in this.

 

To know the past and to dwell in it is NOT the same. What is the use of knowing the past if all you do is talk about the past and not do anything of equal splendor for future?

 

"Look, my ancestor built this and that" while you work as a kuli (servant) is idiotic at its best. That is what is happening to Indians nowadays.

 

They move to places like US, UK and Australia, make foreigners who once ravaged their country, rich while their own land suffers.

 

Not only in India, even here in my country, Malaysia, indians are doing the same. It has become a trend among Indian to pride themselves about their past while being a beggars at present. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

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There is NO earthquake, volcanoes or anything such involved in this.

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my theory is that the land sinking IS the earthquake. and it does say that vishnu took form to support Mt. Mandara after the churning of the ocean, cuz it started sinking. It also said Mt. Mandara had smoke coming from the top.

 

Now, im sure the most religious and ppl who stick to the scriptures literally will not want to see anythign else except a form of vishnu coming as a turtle to keep a mountain up. But one cant look at history like this. religion should NEVER go against science. we also know scientifically, this is impossible. Religious scriptures are NOT literal. They are symbolic of real historic events.

 

Now, my theory is that an earrthquake of some sort could have caused a tsunami-like effect (churning of the ocean). This could easily lead to land sinking under water. God held the land from sinking all the way, symbolized by Vishnu taking form to hold the land up. And the smoke from the mountain could represent a volcano.

 

I was acutally thinking recently. I know i had said Indonesia. But i was thinking, perhaps this was the Saraswathi river extinction. Scholars know that the river went dry around 1900 BC cuz of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. A group of people that lived away from the river, seeing its erffects from far off could come up with this story to represent that aspect of their lives.

 

But then that would maek Kurma before Krishna and that doesnt make sense right. Oh well, i'll stick with my original theory. Please, if u have refutations, show some evidence and logic against it rather than just dimissing it as untrue. Say why

[Sephiroth]

This is why Hindusm failing. Instead of agresively reshaping religious scriptures into modern definations of History, you shy away by stating it is different from actual history and therefore means not true.

 

Do you know that Muslims and Christians agresively define their religion to fit History and Science with their own definations so it could be come a true story and not some separate scripture?

 

Lastly ... Kurma Avatar said to withheld a mountain over a water, NOT a river or Indonesia or anything.

[Guest guest]

what's the use of corrupting a religion to make it competitive?

[Sephiroth]

Frankly speaking, I won't bother to waste time with people who do not register, but I will make exception with you.

 

It is NOT matter of competiting with others or not, it is about showing Hindusm in proper, scienfitic and modern look so the world will know that Hindusm (like Buddhism) is a religion for all age and time.

[Guest guest]

Very interesting views! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

India itself has beautifull high mountains but no vulcanos, active or inactive, at least according to

MY atlas. Offcourse they were known. Relations with Indonesia ( the closest volcanos )are quit old and surely the smoke, ashes,sounds, of the biggest eruptions were sometimes noticed in the whole region. And certain types Volcanos create massive tsunami s to. Take for example Krakatou eruption effects!! /images/graemlins/shocked.gif :

krakatau

 

["Now, my theory is that an earrthquake of some sort could have caused a tsunami-like effect (churning of the ocean). This could easily lead to land sinking under water. God held the land from sinking all the way, symbolized by Vishnu taking form to hold the land up. And the smoke from the mountain could represent a volcano."]

 

Every historian, geologist etc will confirm tsunamis, visible volcano smoke/ashes earthquakes etc. HAVE happened and were noticed in Southern India. Several times.

 

["Now, im sure the most religious and ppl who stick to the scriptures literally will not want to see anythign else except a form of vishnu coming as a turtle to keep a mountain up. But one cant look at history like this. religion should NEVER go against science. we also know scientifically, this is impossible. Religious scriptures are NOT literal. They are symbolic of real historic events."]

 

Yeah...many of them can have some historical basis. You gave a nice view on these kinds of stories!

[Guest guest]

my belief is that old "myths" and "stories" definatley must have some level of truth to it, it is just hard to determimne because the language used traditionally can and often does have varing meanings even though the use of same words. Sometimes this leads to misconceptions that get passed on generation after generation, leading to a totally wrong conception hundreds of years and generations later. Then, the people living in that future time, having misunderstood the stories and dismiss them as probably false instead of understanding it from the point of view of a person living during that time.

 

To say that Hinduism should do as Christians and Muslims have done by siding with science over the possible truth of religious stories is just asanine. Your desire to compete with other world religions and have hinduism accepted by the world community reflects your probable experiences of being consiously or subconsiously belittled for your religion, either to your face or maybe just what you experience secondarily from what you see in the community and environment around you.

 

The truths of these stories must be found and not automatically dismissed as most Westerners do, siding witha more modern "right" science and totally ignoring the truths of these stories. Modernizing and improving does not neccessarily need dismissal of old stories. Try to learn

[jayan008]

the example give by ratheesh of occurances of earthquakes, volcanos and tsunamis does make it more believable........these are natural occurances, and thus no need for any scientific proof for modern people to understand....

[Guest guest]

[ " To say that Hinduism should do as Christians and Muslims have done by siding with science over the possible truth of religious stories is just asanine. Your desire to compete with other world religions and have hinduism accepted by the world community reflects your probable experiences of being consiously or subconsiously belittled for your religion, either to your face or maybe just what you experience secondarily from what you see in the community and environment around you. "]

 

Almost looked like this was personally adressed to me with al the "you's" and 'your's 'but I see it was generally meant.

 

 

[ " my belief is that old "myths" and "stories " definatley must have some level of truth to it, it is just hard to determimne because the language used traditionally can and often does have varing meanings even though the use of same words" ]

 

For the record, I don't think this should account for every old myth, religious or not. Lets not forget the ability to create myths and stories, non-historical but with deeper meaning. Buddhist fables for ex, ( technically no myth bcos of the animals but surely created stories with deeper meaning/ethics).

 

Agreed though that many religious myths(and non-religious)have some historical basis. Even Dracula has a bit(e)! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

it wasnt meant towards you, it was meant towards the person who was talking about competition among religions.

 

i appreciate what you said about how i wrote my beliefs. thanks. sorry for any unintended offense.

[Sephiroth]

Well ... I guess for you guys, it should be sufficient enough. No offense attended.

 

I for one will continue to research more till I find an event which suits the Kurma Purana better.