Proof that Swaminarayan is the supreme Lord?

[celina12]

 

How foolish of you. Typical BAPS follower, always narrows it down to envy. Mate if i had Irsha i wouldnt follow what i do, i would join you. But this is not the case i dont envy you. In case i pity you guys. Into thinking how you will attain Moksh by doing Vachan droh of Bhagwan Swaminarayan and displeasing Him in this manner..

 

Also you are very keen on referncing by 'cherry picking' what you like but never answer to the post that have been referenced about Agna and Upasna. You like to pick out what you think is right. And the rest of it you disregard. BAPS is like the blind leading the blind. That is exactly what it is.

 

Also it isnt about "getting up our asses and helping the world". This is about becomming an Ekantik Bhakt. Which you have no scope for. BAPS change Scriptures, Shlokas, stotras like the Janmangal, Artis and even the main Precepts and siddhants. Why should we envy such?? How foolish of you to think such.

 

Also in terms of being international.. Satsang in the UK and Africa first started by Kutchi Haribhaktos under NAr Narayan Dev MAndir under Bhuj- Amdavad Gadi. USA satsang was established by ISSO (International Satsang Swaminarayan Organisation- under Amdavad and Vadtal Gadi) Not only that but it is flourishing day by day.

 

You backlash with your own views by stating stuff like your envious etc. But you never reply with references and quotes from the Shastras about Agna, Upasna or the scriptures views nor the refuge of the Dharmvansh.

 

Arguing with you is useless. Your whining and ill will won't disrupt BAPS satsang.

 

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=615 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=563 bgColor=#fdf2ed>

 

|| Two Unforgivable Sins ||

 

 

Thereupon Somlã Khãchar asked, "God forgives all of the mistakes of His devotees, but which one mistake does God not forgive?"

Shriji Mahãrãj replied, "God forgives all other mistakes, but He does not forgive the mistake of spiting a devotee of God. Therefore, one should never harm a devotee of God in any way whatsoever. Furthermore, of all mistakes made against God, to denounce the form of God is a very grave mistake. One should never make this mistake. One who does do so commits a sin more serious than the five grave sins…"

 

 

[Gadhadã I-71]

 

 

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http://www.swaminarayan.org/vachanamrut/51.php

[new---new]

By the way ..when i said there s no version of vachanamrut online i meant the entire vachanamrut ..not just the gems......

 

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|| Understanding Scriptures ||

 

"Besides, the words of the scriptures cannot be understood in their true context by anyone except an ekãntik bhakta…"

 

 

[Gadhadã I-66]

 

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and therefore not all teachings are for everyone....even the hare krishna dont discuss higher lilas of gopis and krishna amongst the general masses....for they are likely to be misunderstood......misinterpreted...

 

better to follow one's own guru ......not hurt anyone.....

 

PS ... swaminarayan was very intelligent....especially when he explained the nature of ego ..and how it enters a person masked as ego of virtuosity....something very common among believers....who think that all those who dont agree with their beliefs are idiots.....that was to me personally ..a very important lesson.....

[celina12]

 

By the way ..when i said there s no version of vachanamrut online i meant the entire vachanamrut ..not just the gems......

 

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=615 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=26 background=images/left.jpg></TD><TD width=563 bgColor=#fdf2ed>

 

|| Understanding Scriptures ||

 

 

"Besides, the words of the scriptures cannot be understood in their true context by anyone except an ekãntik bhakta…"

 

 

[Gadhadã I-66]

 

 

</TD><TD width=26 background=images/right.jpg></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=615 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=26 background=images/left.jpg></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

and therefore not all teachings are for everyone....even the hare krishna dont discuss higher lilas of gopis and krishna amongst the general masses....for they are likely to be misunderstood......misinterpreted...

 

better to follow one's own guru ......not hurt anyone.....

 

PS ... swaminarayan was very intelligent....especially when he explained the nature of ego ..and how it enters a person masked as ego of virtuosity....something very common among believers....who think that all those who dont agree with their beliefs are idiots.....that was to me personally ..a very important lesson.....

 

I've been emailing BAPS for a while about getting all of the vachanamrut up. It's a big task but hopefully they will.

[Guest]

 

Arguing with you is useless. Your whining and ill will won't disrupt BAPS satsang.

 

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=615 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=563 bgColor=#fdf2ed>

 

|| Two Unforgivable Sins ||

 

 

 

Thereupon Somlã Khãchar asked, "God forgives all of the mistakes of His devotees, but which one mistake does God not forgive?"

Shriji Mahãrãj replied, "God forgives all other mistakes, but He does not forgive the mistake of spiting a devotee of God. Therefore, one should never harm a devotee of God in any way whatsoever. Furthermore, of all mistakes made against God, to denounce the form of God is a very grave mistake. One should never make this mistake. One who does do so commits a sin more serious than the five grave sins…"

 

 

[Gadhadã I-71]

 

 

 

</TD><TD width=26 background=images/right.jpg></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

http://www.swaminarayan.org/vachanamrut/51.php

 

Yeah but guess what? Do understand this answer you have to understand who a devotee of God is...A devotee of God is HE who never disobeys the commands and tenets of Bhagwan who has established this Sampraday. And never do vachan droh. You need to open your eyes to relaity.. i suggest your read orthodox scriptures and not edited versions made yesterday. Do BAPS followers do this? NOPE i didnt think so. Do you do things by the book? I.e take refuge of the Dharmkul, Give dashmo vishmo bhaag to the Mandirs of Both Desh?

 

Firstly, it is Lord Swaminarayan's instructions and orders in the 'Desh Vibhagh no Lekh' and noted in all other main Swaminarayan Sampraday scriptures that the Acharya of the Swaminarayan Sampraday be appointed only from His father's family i.e. 'Dharmakul'. So really this on its own should be enough for the Swaminarayan devotees! These Acharyas are the administrators of Satsang and they can also give Moksh as its through them the Saints get bhgawati diksha. The true Saints are the the path of Kalyaan many Acharyas also get their gyaan from such a true Saint. MAny such saints under the true satsang exist today. Note they have to be initiated into the Satsang as saints according to Bhagwans wish. i.e. through the Dharmvanshi Acharya. Those that are not are vimukhs according to Bhagwans own words.

 

 

[Guest]

 

 

Why Householder Acharyas?

 

 

Many schools of worship that have defected from the original Swaminarayan Sampraday (original sampraday = currently headed by the lineage of spiritual Acharyas descending from Ayodhyaprasadji Maharaj and Raghuvirji Maharaj) believe that saints should be and have them as their Acharyas. Well this is not true nor right for a few reasons:

1) Firstly, it is Lord Swaminarayan's instructions and orders in the 'Desh Vibhagh no Lekh' and noted in all other main Swaminarayan Sampraday scriptures that the Acharya of the Swaminarayan Sampraday be appointed only from His father's family i.e. 'Dharmakul'. So really this on its own should be enough for the Swaminarayan devotees!

2) But since we have a tendency not to accept things to suit our needs, there is a very obvious and logical reason as to why Lord Swaminarayan appointed householder Acharyas AND WHY SPECIFICALLY FROM HIS FAMILY:

a) The idea of appointing householder Acharyas is not a concept brought about just a few hundreds of years ago. It is a concept well authenticated in scriptures such as Yagnavalkya Smriti written thousands and thousands of years ago. Anyway, when Ramanand Swami met Dharmadev and Bhaktimata (parents of Lord Swaminarayan), Ramanand Swami asked Dharmadev and Bhaktimata to pass the initiation 'mantra' to all the devotees earnest for their libeeration, i.e. Dharmadev to the males and Bhaktimata to the females. Very obviously, Ramanand Swami was a saint and so giving the initiation mantra to ladies would be to break the rules of being a saint. And so the mantra which was given to Bhaktimata through Dharmadev was then passed on to lady devotees. This was before Lord Swaminarayan was born and before the Acharyaship was established.

b) When an initiation mantra is given to a devotee or a saint, then only does he/she qualify to be a Swaminarayan devotee and his or her bhakti becomes authenticated to earn liberation. In other words IT IS very important that we get this mantra. Well obviously lady devotees would also like to go to Akshardham and serve Lord Swaminarayan, right??? Let's hope so. Well ok, so who is going to give them the mantra if a saint is to be the Acharya?? ...because a Swaminarayan saint is not supposed to communicate or even look at female devotees. It is for this very reason that Lord Swaminarayan appointed the Acharyas' wives as the gurus of the female devotees and made them responsible to pass on the mantra to the female devotees.

c) A logical and scientific reason given in the scriptures - When the Acharya gives the initiation mantra to a devotee, the devotee is given a new birth by the Guru. And we all know birth can only be brought about from the union of a male and a female. In our case this refers to the Acharya and His wife, refered to as the 'Gadhiwala'. Also by the way, when initiation is given all the sins of the devotee are taken away by the Acharya or the Gadhiwala. There is a ritual for the latter whereby a Yagna is held and a coconut is offered to Agni dev. And scriptures very clearly state that this can only be done by a couple or else the sacrifice is not accepted by Agni Dev and thus one of the main reasons as to why saints cannot be Acharyas.

d) WE MUST REALIZE THAT THESE HOUSEHOLDER ACHARYAS ARE NOT JUST ORDINARY HOUSEHOLDERS - THEY WERE APPOINTED AS ACHARYAS BY LORD SWAMINARAYAN FROM HIS OWN FATHER'S FAMILY (LORD'S NEPHEWS ) AND HE ADOPTED THEM AND THEIR LINEAGE (ACHARYAS' LINEAGE) AS HIS OWN SONS. SO THE LINEAGE OF ACHARYAS THAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE CHOSEN TO IGNORE AND DISRESPECT ARE THE GOD PERSONIFIED , SONS OF LORD SWAMINARAYAN, SEATED ON THE THRONE BY LORD SWAMINARAYAN HIMSELF AND THEIR CONTINUING LINEAGE IS ALSO TAKEN CARE BY LORD SWAMINARAYAN TO PROTECT HIS SAMPRADAY! So make no mistake, the argument is not about ORDINARY householders becoming Acharyas of the Swaminarayan Sampraday. The Dharmakul Acharyas are divine souls very close to Lord Swaminarayan and that is why their respect is commanded by ALL the devotees/saints of the Swaminarayan Sampraday. Accordingly Acharyas are very respectful and kind to their devotees and saints because of their divine nature and instructions by Lord Swaminarayan.

e) Lord Swaminarayan has instructed His followers in the Shikshapatri to worship only those images of God that have been installed by the Acharyas from the family of His father (Dharmakul Acharyas). So specifically the biggest task of inviting God in to the idols is reserved for the household Acharyas and their lineage appointed by Lord Swaminarayan

f) Lord Swaminarayan as per His instructions in the Shikshapatri prohibits saints from indulging in worldly affairs such as management of the entire Sampraday and also coming into contact with women. For this reason the HouseHolder Acharyas are best suited because they are able to engage in management affairs and their respective wives, whom Lord Swaminarayan appointed as the Gurus/Spiritual leaders for the women, can deal with the spiritual matters for women such as initiation and guidance. If Renounced Saints are appointed as Acharyas , who gives the initiation to the women??? What happens to their salvation? And no ordinary man or woman can give such initiations, only the Acharyas and their respective wives can, as per Lord Swaminarayan's instructions in the Shikshapatri, Desh Vibhag no lekh and Satsangi Jeevan

g) Lord Swaminarayan wouldn't write rules of conduct in the Shikshapatri for the Acharyas and also specifically for their respective wives, the GadhiWala, if He didn't think they had the most important place in the Sampraday as the spiritual leaders of the devotees, including saints!; to give initiation to devotees plus saints and for the Acharyas especially to install idols in the temples (the only idols which Swaminarayan devotees are supposed to worship- ref: Shikshapatri)

The initiation mantra can not be passed to masses of people made up of males and females. It has to be secretly given in the ear of the devotee. Only the Acharyas' wives can do this to the females. Saints would not be able to do this because of the rules that bind them in the Shikshapatri laid down by Lord Swaminarayan Himself.

 

 

Also all the Vachnamruts are up on the Stanmore Swaminarayan mandir site under Nar Narayan Mandir Bhuj Under Amdavad Gadi.

 

Her you go:

 

http://www.swaminarayansatsang.com/library/scriptures/index.asp

[Guest]

http://www.geocities.com/desh_vibhagh_no_lekh/

[celina12]

 

http://www.geocities.com/desh_vibhagh_no_lekh/

 

lol, did you create that junk site. or was it the Vadtal crooks. My 5 year old sister could create a better site then that.

[Guest]

http://www.geocities.com/desh_vibhagh_no_lekh/lekh.htm

 

Avgun will take one nowhere, whats the matter? Just because BAPS do not have an explanation of devoiding Shriji Maharajs siddhants you refer to name calling.Dont be so immature and be sensible and talk it out philosophically if you have it in you. Its not the site i was refering to it was the Desh Vibhaag No lekh.

 

http://www.geocities.com/desh_vibhagh_no_lekh/lekh.htm

[harikrishna1]

not in my opinion but as true fact all of BAP's property (in other words "temples") are just monuments where many people who do not know the truth just go and see the place. it is not a mandir because god does reside there, they are statues being offered food etc. this is how baps attract people in their monument and then skank tourist for their cash - the reason baps got money.

 

our aim is to go to gods abode but i'm sorry Baps people will not go there but instead be stuck on this earth until they come to their senses

[harikrishna1]

that was supposed to be a NOT between 'does' and 'reside'

[Vidyardhi Nanduri]

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If Learned Bhishma Acharya walked out voluntarily before the start of Maha-Bharata War, Intellectuals should have continued the threads of Noble Souls. That is Heritage and Pride for Indians

[bhups]

Oh no celina12 the other side has got the vachnamurt up before the baps!!

 

Quick send them another email!

 

Well i guess they are busy building more monuments instead of busy preaching the true words of the Lord.

 

What do they say in your books about the Guru param-para of Ayodhyaprasadji Maharaj and Raghuveerji Maharaj ?

 

Your probably like Who? read this - swaminarayan.info/Acharyas/

[new---new]

now which sampradaya teaches its devotees to ridicule others ?

 

wether one belong to baps or is under vadtal or amdavad ..... finding out the truth is the common goal of all..... and the truth cannot be arrived at with arguments using scriptures simply because in an individual's case what "one understands" matters more that "what is written" ... and what "one understands" will depend on who the person accepts as authority ...including which scriptures are considered as authorotative........ arguing over it is useless ...pointless......

better to do the mantra given by the guru ...........because unfortunately misery will keep finding a person until the truth finds him..... arguments will only drain your energy and time ....and mood...whats the point in winning an argument over god if god is still not found ?.....and if god is found why would one care for anything else.......

personally i still havent found what i'm looking for....so it just pisses me off when i look at arguments .......i mean imagine looking at a bunch of blind men fighting with each claiming "i am blind allright..but i can see better than others" lol......come to think of it ....it looked so inviting to me that i thought i'd better join.....

[Guest]

Yeah but truth will remain truth and Dharm should always be protected by the Bhakt, Sadhu and Acharya.

 

Gods Dharm, agna and Upasna are not somthing to be mingled with nor compromised with.

[dharmesh mistry]

jai swaminarayan.

halo, pramukh swmi maharj never says i have to sit on golden thrown, but it is the bhakti of the devotees that they give the thrown.

if ur guru comes to visit ur house then i would like to know that u will give a respectful sit or would u say that u sit on the ground and i will sit on the chair

and que about the world i would like to inform that once one haribhagt said that lot of satsang had happen, but gunatitanand swami replied that lot of satsang would be said when swaminaryan name will be on evry leaves of the trees around tha world so the agnya of the guru they folow.

and also pramukhswami never goes for roaming like u they go to temple and do satsang only never they do other activities ok

their mision is to spread ekantik dharm all over the world

i have visited bhuj, not even a single haribhagat had bowed down to other haribhagat and said jai swaminarayan. come and visit our baps mandir every haribhakt bows each other that what lord swaminarayn bhagwn want that every haribhakt is divine.

jai swaminaryan.

[celina12]

 

Yeah but truth will remain truth and Dharm should always be protected by the Bhakt, Sadhu and Acharya.

 

Gods Dharm, agna and Upasna are not somthing to be mingled with nor compromised with.

 

jai swaminaryan. for mahesh and others. it shouldn't matter what Pramukh Swami sits on. He is a living saint and deserves to be respected. It's not like the Vadtal/Ahmedavad Acharyas sit on a bed of nails all day. Are these the philosophical points you wanted to debate?

[dharmesh mistry]

halo devotees of lord swaminarayan

listen carefully.

that our one and only aim is to acheive akshardhaam.

so why to fight for sampradaay, lord swaminarayn is same .

he told in vachanamrit, that he who has dharm,,bhakti,,vairagya,,and mahatmya sahit bhagwan na swarup no nishchay. this 4 things , god will reside in him.

so why to fight between amdavad,vadtal ,baps and others

we should only worship lord swaminarayan

if we want to go to gadhada, then let one go from amdavad, and let other from junagadh we should reach gadhada.

so never fight for sampraday, only fight for our swabhaav. and with our mann.

then only swaminarayan would come within us.

ok,

[Guest]

First of all teh ACharyas are Grahast. Secondly Gunatitanand Swami was given many such ornaments and even at one stage he was give a pagh to wear in one village and he immediately left the gaam. It was the same with Nishkulanand Swami in one village where he was offered lapsi to eat. Yet he didnt accept and left the next day.

 

A true saint shouldnt accept such ornaments.

 

Secondly when a saint comes to my house, we dont give them thrones to sit on. Nor do the ysit on leather sofas. They automatically sit on the asans on the floor.

 

Also a sant is Paramhans. the yare menat to go from village to village spreading atsang. Thats what true saints do and also do Pravrutti. Read the Satsangi Jivanfor Sants dharms.

 

Also when BAPS get caught through a scripture they state like you guys do. That we shouldnt fight etc. And our one and only aim is to achieve Akshardham. But truth is that we shouldnt want Akshardham nor the 4 types of muktis. We should only wish to make Bhagwan happy.

 

This can only be done through His agna and upasna. BAPS fail here. This is my point. Also all Haribhakts say JAi Swaminarayan to all in Bhuj. What are you on about? LOL. Even though still, no one does guru droh or vachan droh.

[Guest]

<table class="tborder" id="post1064982" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td class="alt1" id="td_post_1064982" style="border-top: 1px solid rgb(207, 207, 207); border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(207, 207, 207);">People come here quoting quotes and references, but why is it that when it comes when Siddhants are quotes they are never spoken against by BAPS followers?

You people go round replying "blood is Mayik" etc. But who is worshipping the blood anyway? We surely are not. We are simply doing what Bhagwan Swaminarayan taught us. What He prescribed for His followers to do. He set out the Dharmkul and its Gadi. Read Nishkulanand Kavya. Truth is I’ve stated you guys to read such text but I never ever get a response or a reply about it. As to whether you have read it or not. Even read the Sarvamangal Namavli... which consist of 1000 names of Swaminarayan Bhagwan. In there is no reference to Akshar Purushottam nor is there any reference to a gubatit Parampara. But there is reference to Acharyas, Acharyas initiations for Bhakts, Acharyas wives and their female Shishyas, Sadhvi Dharm.

You go on stating how you have become good people, well that’s great, Yipee yay. That’s great. If you ask a Christian who has met the pope then they would too state such about him. How he shines like a star etc. You think the original Sampraday doesn’t have true saints or something?

Also if you read Gopalanand Swamis Vato it clearly states what a Avgun is also what a Avgun isn’t. And by teaching someone and telling them that they have taken a avgun is niot a avgun, if you believe different then please state with reference where Swaminarayan Bhagwan states in the scriptures.

They too would leave any sins and bad behaviour they would have on His words. But are you so great in the eyes of Bhagwan by ignoring His will, His precepts, His tenets for Bhakts, His Principles etc?

You state how you were a bad person and ate meat. Lol mate your only 16, I’m 24and trust me I’ve done everything there is to do which im not very proud of (this includes eating meat to drugs etc), and nor was I born into Satsang. I was introduced into what I thought was Satsang in the Neasden BAPS Yagna many years ago. I was then a regular worshipper of Neasden Swaminarayan Mandir as I only live on ffice:smarttags" /><st1:street w:st="<st1:address">Crest Road</st1:street> in Neasden today. This was until I started reading the Original Shastras as told by Tyagvallabh Swami of BAPS who was in Sarangpur BAPS Mandir in my trip to <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> with my family. At the time I had learnt Guajarati at <st1:place w:st="on"><st1>:PlaceName w:st="on">Guajarati</st1>:PlaceName> <st1>:PlaceType w:st="on">School</st1>:PlaceType></st1:place> so I was fluent in reading. I thank Swami to this day for telling me such. As this is what made me open my eyes as at first I bought the Satsangi Jivan all 5 Volumes from Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj?

It is then I started to realise for myself with the help of my new guru Sadguru Shriharidasji of Bhuj Mandir. Now this saint actually talks with God. I’ve seen wake up at 2am to puja, clean Mandirs at such a ripe age, never get angry ever, and have all 30+ qualities of a saint described in the Vachnamrut. He is a Ekantik Santpurush that Nishlulanand Swami describes in the Kavya. That reminds me.. I then started to read the Kavya by learning the Raags firstly and then slowly reading it with Swamis help. He used to teach me the meanings as they were. Then I started reading the Satsangi Bhushan and Hari Digvijay.

The Vachnamrut was an everyday thing as Swami knows the whole Vachnamrut by heart with its deepest meanings which I’ve not seen any saint even today teach. Shriharidasji Swami once also took out ghost from the body of a possessed man from 6pm to 2am in the morning one after another. I lived with swami for 2 whole years and finished my college at Laalan college in Bhuj. No BAPS saint compared to Such an Ekanti Sants darshan everyday. Nor did Swami accept to sit in thrones either nor let himself be called Mool Akshar or anything eve though he is surely a mukt. As I understood from authentic orthodox scriptures that there is no such Gunatit Parampara mentioned nor are there any of Mahrajas Lilas upon any such incidents taking place where Bhagwan mentions such a Parampara. Rampratapbhai and Iccharam Bhai were the avtaars of Sankarshan and Pradumna. Bhagwan decided from Akshardhaam that he would create a Sampraday of His Murtis, Shastras, Acharyas and Saints. These Acharyas would be chosen from His Dharmkul. Why is it you ignore the Ourshottam Prakash by Sadguru Nand Sant Nishkulanand Swami? As this Purshottam Prakash was even read by Shriji Mahraj and he put it in His head!! And gave Nishkulanand Swami His Charnarvind on his chest and chandan puja and garlanded him woth his prasadi flowers!!! This Purshottam Praksh contains everything!!! Yet you BAPS followers don’t read it?????? WHY I ASK? Again and Again. Once you do read it then let me know what you think instead of coming in here spurting drivel.

Secondly i learnt that Sadguru Akshar Avtaar Gopalanand Swami was Akshardham incarnate according to scriptures and any scriptures that BAPS use are either edited or neither to such Shlokas exists in the authentic scriptures. This is the only reason I’m on here trying to get people to read the scriptures as they are without anybody’s purport or edited versions. If you seek truth and reality as it is you should also read the Bochasan Bandh. Otherwise what you follow is nothing but like the blind leading the blind.

Sarva Avtaari Bhagwan Swaminarayan Ni Jai!!

Nar Narayan Dev Ni Jai!

Laksmi Narayan Dev Ni Jai!

 

 

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Asuri and Paapi People and the Importance of Following the True Swaminarayan Sampraday.

Let me explain with what God taught in Vachanamrut 14 Gadhada 2nd. Lord talks about asuri and paapi souls.

The lord says that people who have taken avgun (critisised or dishonoured) of a true saint or God himself, becomes cursed. He cannot get ultimate redemption or atyantic kalyaan (moksha).

Gopalanand Swami States that this saint should be a true Ekantik and have the refuge of the Dharmvansh. If someone finds faults with such a saint through mind or deed is said to have taken avgun of the saint. His nature becomes agnostic and finds faults with a true saint and God each and every time. For many lives he will remain the same. There are also other people, who commit many sins, but their mind is not, such which finds faults with true saints, God and his work. Therefore even though he commits sins he knows that a saint is true and understands a saint’s importance. Therefore whenever he approaches a true saint his sins are nullified by mere touch of a true saint. He also realises that he makes mistakes therefore he doesn’t fall from his path of attaining Gods abode.

It is like milk, which has been poisoned. The milk is used to make many products such as yoghurt, chaas, butter, cheese etc. Now if the milk has been poisoned the rest of the by products will also be poisoned. No matter how much a person heats the milk the poison will not be rid of.

In the same way the cursed mind (asuri) will not got be got rid of unless he realises the greatness of a true saint. Until then he will always find faults in a sampraday or satsang. Whereas milk which only has debris fallen into it can be sieved heated purified and drunk. This is the case for the sinner (paapi). A sinner can get rid of his sins very easily just by realising a true saint and taking refuge under him or merely by realising the greatness of God but for an asuri minded person its much more difficult.

Lord calls people who find faults with true saints asuri. He also states that asuri’s can only be existing in a sampraday or close to a satsang. As they have to because only then they can find faults of a true saint etc.

The other thing is that a paapi (sinner) can be generally recognised. For example a person who drinks can be recognised easily by the way he smells. Or a smoker can be recognised for whatever reason etc but a person who is Asuri cannot be recognised even though he lives within the company of a satsang or sampraday. Even though the asurs may be a devout Brahmin doing what he is meant to such as Tilak chandlo, and manasi puja, wearing kanthi and janoi and coming to satsang etc. this does not mean he is of good nature!

It’s the inner qualities which are the ones to look out for. For example Hitler is said to be a vegetarian and non-alcoholic. This does not mean Hitler was a good man? No it doesn’t for he had many asuri tendencies, He may have murdered many saintly people not mentioning the thousands of innocents.

Another example is that of Ravan. He was well known as a studier of Veda’s. He wrote so many manuscripts of the Veda’s. He pleased Lord Shiv and Brahmaji with his penance! Does this mean he was of good character? No it doesn’t because he questioned Gods divinity as well as opposed Him and his saints thus making him Asuri. He had hatred towards his Brother Vibhishan who was saintly in character.

Therefore there are many asurs living today in satsang as well as outside of satsang but because they have found faults in God, true saints and followers they will remain asuri, and their hearts will be full of ignorance, envy, anger, arrogance and other inner enemies (kaam, krodh, lobh, matsar, irsha etc.). This also exists within sadhus as well. They look at devotees and they have no problem with them. But inside they have so much hatred with other true saints. They have anger and jealousy lurking inside them. Or they want to break away and do another thing from what God originally stated. Just like poisoned milk, no matter how many mouth-watering products are created from it, it will remain poisoned. In the same way no matter how many good causes these “breakaway cults” create; they will always remain poisoned as the initial breakaway is devoid of the sampraday, which Shriji Maharaj originally created.

Nand Sant Sadguru Shri Niskulanand Swami, states in the Yamdand Kavya that a soul may he be samadhi nishth and one with brahm yet even he shouldn’t ever think of being worshipped as God. So what to talk of mere mortals thinking so? Those that do think such and allow themselves to be believed by humans as God, fall in the deepest of hells. Such “sadhu’s” exist today as the leaders of so-called Swaminarayan sanstha’s as acharya!

Purushottam is the highest reality, the supreme Godhead, one and unique. He is, at once, transcendent to everything and immanent in everything. He is the concrete reality with divine form and perfect personality who is the controller and supporter of everything. Lord Swaminarayan Himself is Sarva Avtaari Parabrahm Purushottam.

An asuri way of thinking must have existed for a so-called saint to create such sub-sampraday’s in the first place. As no matter what the circumstances are. Even if a Dharmvanshi acharya is devoid of what he should be doing, this does not create an excuse to breakaway from the original doctrine, as another acharya is sure to follow after him and true saints still reside and will always reside within the sampraday as promised by the lord. As breaking away from the reality is nothing but breaking away from a place in Akshardham. These people who do such are “vimookhs”. The Sikshapatri clearly states this. No matter what they use to justify their position they will not achieve the divine abode of God, for why would they?

The lord commanded that this satsang and sampraday is for the ultimate redemption of human kind. It is a way in many will attain heaven if they follow it correctly. “My doors for whoever realises this is free from the agonies of birth and death and never have to be born within this universe which has been created to purify the souls”, this is what Shriji Maharaj has said.

A temple, satsang and sampraday are not created to be well established and to gain fame and be recognised throughout the world with its popularity. It is there so that souls attain heaven. So people who say, “oh, such a Swaminarayan sect is much more popular than the original one, they have the large gathering of followers” etc, are misguided. For if this were the case then so called Vedant teachers like Rajneesh would have proved his way of religion correct, according to Vedic customs ages ago, because he too was at once popular. However his way of dharm fell as it was against the teachings of the Vedas.

Just like a house is for people to live within not for people to live for. In the same way a sampraday and a temple is for getting into heaven not for misguidance and new cults to live for which is the case that can be seen today. Many other Swaminarayan sanstha’s have come to exist for taking revenge on reality. People do not see this nor realise how the sanstha comes to be and follow it like their all. What they do see is this front which they think is correct and as its strong, popular etc, therefore it must be true. Yes these so called Swaminarayan sampraday “breakaways” do good deeds, yes they feed the poor, yet it is like the by products of poisoned milk and of asuri nature like explained before.

These good deeds that they do will not alone get them into heaven, as the initial teachings taught by the Lord are not intercepted with what they preach, teach or carry out in their lives. However, these good deeds will help them in their lives to come even though they may be saintly in this life.

A person who does tilak, chandlo and may well wake up in brahmuhrat can still be evil from the inside because of the abhaav of saints he or she may have. These people are full of cheat, ignorance, and many other antarshatrus like maan, irsha etc. These people live inside satsang and cannot be recognised by anyone. The lord says that until you live in the company of such people or saints only then can you recognise their true nature. In the same way these more and more fabricated cults, which are poisoned, will appear and realising they are devoid, they should be discarded.

For what to talk about a true saint? The lord in Gadhada Pratham Vachanamrut 27 explains that a saint who realises that Lord is controller of all and he himself is nothing but a soul and considers all material objects as equal, whether it is a mount of gold or stones the saint sees it as equal. Such a saint has God looking from the eyes he looks with, walking from the feet he walks with. By the power of God within him he is able to show many souls and make them realise who God is.

By performing darshan to such a saint a person can get rid of all his sins past and present. Such saints live within Shree Swaminarayan mandir Bhuj under Nar Narayan Dev’s care. They have the power to do as they please yet they remain humble, limiting the knowledge of their greatness to only the ones who have witnessed them in divine action. Such saints are like the current Mahant Sadguru Shri Hariswarup Dasji and Sadguru Shri Ghanshyamjivandasji etc. These are just two from many, but for those who do not want to understand will never do and lose this precious human life which they think they are happy in because of the material pleasures. True happiness lies nowhere but in satsang.

These views of God are for people who are daivy (divine souls) and not asuri’s as asuri minded people will always question and will remain agnostic no matter what the case. These are the teachings of Lord Swaminarayan as attained by the Samprdai scriptures.

 

Jai Swaminarayan.

 

 

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[celina12]

Those who protect Lord Swaminarayans Dharma, are the true devotees of God. BAPS fits in this catergory. The Ahmedavad/Vadtal crooks aren't respecting what Lord Swaminarayan taught. They are not protectors of his dharm.

[Guest]

How does BAPS fit into this category? When they go round changing Artis, Shlokas and Scriptures?IS this how they fit in? When the ydo droh of Mahrajs Vachans and his principles. BAPS do not even adhere to the scriptures. not even the primary one The siksapatri. So how do you guys fit it?You do clealry fit into the Vimukh category i have to say.

 

BAPS is full of all sorts of evils. Just because they have soem control over the Gujrati media they are not portrayed as such. Are you telling me there is no fight going on at the moment over the next Pramukh Swami? LOL

 

Also about when you need land, and when your saints want to leave theyre beaten up. Just like Hariprasad swami says he was. So he created haridham sokhda. Ive heard from my ears about his troubled past in BAPS. Yet he takes gunas of Swami. So to say that nothing happens is foolish of you. You should have female gurus anyway as a female. Liek Bhagwan Himself established. Aum shri Sadhvidharmpravartkaay namah.... Remember???

 

Our road may have bumps and holes in them. They may even be flooded but this is the Road that Bhagwan Swaminarayan Himself established!! This is the road he told all to follow! Whatever this road is like we know where it leads.

 

Whereas your road is going in the opposite direction. Its not made by Bhagwan nor is it that which Bhagwan told His devotees to follow. You think your doing great form you building of temples and some seva. But when it comes to Agna and Upasna its devoid of teh principles of Bhagwan Swaminarayan.

[BAPS Follower]

 

How foolish of you. Typical BAPS follower, always narrows it down to envy. Mate if i had Irsha i wouldnt follow what i do, i would join you. But this is not the case i dont envy you. In case i pity you guys. Into thinking how you will attain Moksh by doing Vachan droh of Bhagwan Swaminarayan and displeasing Him in this manner..

 

Also you are very keen on referncing by 'cherry picking' what you like but never answer to the post that have been referenced about Agna and Upasna. You like to pick out what you think is right. And the rest of it you disregard. BAPS is like the blind leading the blind. That is exactly what it is.

 

Also it isnt about "getting up our asses and helping the world". This is about becomming an Ekantik Bhakt. Which you have no scope for. BAPS change Scriptures, Shlokas, stotras like the Janmangal, Artis and even the main Precepts and siddhants. Why should we envy such?? How foolish of you to think such.

 

Also in terms of being international.. Satsang in the UK and Africa first started by Kutchi Haribhaktos under NAr Narayan Dev MAndir under Bhuj- Amdavad Gadi. USA satsang was established by ISSO (International Satsang Swaminarayan Organisation- under Amdavad and Vadtal Gadi) Not only that but it is flourishing day by day.

 

You backlash with your own views by stating stuff like your envious etc. But you never reply with references and quotes from the Shastras about Agna, Upasna or the scriptures views nor the refuge of the Dharmvansh.

 

The only thing Vadtal and Ahemdabad Gadi's know what to do is argue with in each other.

[BAPS Follower]

You will not find one black spot on a white cloth in BAPS. Jealousy is a bad thing..BAPS does not have to be jealous of any other sampraday. I dont personally see anything in other sampraday's. What are other Sampraday's known for? Acharya's kill sadhu's....Sadhu's caught in sexual acts....Is this something to be proud of? Tell me one thing BAPS has done wrong? The only thing BAPS does is provide a right path to Akshardham. They do not believe in all this other stuff you people are going on about....

I was watching something the other day where i saw the Maninagar Guru dancing to a hindi tune....Show me proof of something BAPS does wrong and i will have proof to contradict you!

[BAPS Follower]

BAPS does not change scriptures. I suggest you get off your laurals and read the scriptures written by Shriji Maharaj and It clearly say Akshar tai ne Purshotaam ni bhakti karvi. What does that mean? Akshar Purshotaam Upasana. Maharaj and His true Devotee.

Remember one thing: The reason BAPS has flourished and risen as a true Sanstha is because Shriji Maharaj is one with his gurus. If it was the same with the other sampraday's then they would be ahead of BAPS.

The only thing other sampraday's know how to do is go to people and tell them they are part of BAPS for donations. Use BAPS name ... But they have been caught out as everyone knows.

[Guest]

First things first, there is nothing we have to be jealous about. You have nothing compared to what shriji maharaj Himself established.

 

BAPS is not orthodox and is not even correct according to the Vedas never mind your so called gurus.

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Bhagwan Swaminarayan has stated that those who know me to be their choicest deity and wish to achieve moksha(Salvation) shall follow only the Swaminarayan Sampraday under the leadership of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. (Vachanamrut Vadtal 18, Nishkulanand Kavya - Purushottam Prakash)

 

The Desh Vibhaag Lekh was Maharaj's agna for all souls that were desiration of salvation. You cannot hope to conform to it in a million years as He only established 2 Gadis, saints, scriptures, pratyaksh murtis haribhakts and the importance of female satsang according to diciplic succession. All this is prescribed in any of the orthodox scriptures you pick up. Shriji maharaj in nishkulanand Swami even states that he decided this from Akshardham.. care to argue with this? It will mention these without fail. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I have lived amongst BAPS and I found it inadequate once I read the original undoctored scriptures of the orthodox Swamainarayan Sampraday.

 

First of all never mind the scriptures.. BAPS have changed even the Arti and the Sikshapatri!! How dare you come out with such? Yes, the orthodox scriptures state that you have to become by realising yourself as Brahm/Akshar (realise yourself as the soul) and then worship Purshottam. This does not contradict with what the orthodox Satsang follows nor Shriji Maharajs teachings. Where does it state in any of the scriptures written My shriji mahraj, nand santos or even by Gunatitanand swami in His vatos that you should worship Akshar purshottam?? That you should worship him and place him on the sinhasan like Radhaji, Laksmiji etc? Where ? Even in one senytence with reference and quotes. Show ME?

 

You siting that BAPS popularity is reason for it to be deemed as genuine, if that is the case then there is no religion like Islam. As that is most popular. Maharaj has already prestated that there will be ups and downs in this satsang that he has created. But the temples and the temples under the banner of Vadtal and Amdavad gadis will remain as long as the Moon and Sun shine "yaavat Surya Chandra Divakare"...satsangi Jivan (Bhagwan Swaminarayan). Have you even read the Purshottam Prakash, Haricharitramrut Sagar, Harililamrut? How can you miss all this? Have you even read the Sarvamangal stotra which has the 1000 names of Mahraj. even from that all can be clearly seen. Have you guys been brain washed or performed black magic upon? Also why is it that you have to make temples opposite the original ones that Swaminarayan Bhagwan Himself constructed? Why do you insult Him in such a way?

 

The bad apples of the Sampraday such as the Acharya and the so called sadhus you talk of have been excommunicated from the Satsang as per Gods wish and they are free do live as they wish just as BAPS do. The current Acharyas are administrating satsang in the orthodox manner. Bad apples will exist in all walks of live. Even in satsang at the time of Shriji maharaj so called bad apples like Raghunathdas, Harba and Valba etc existed. So what you trying to say? That Maharaj satsang was wrong too? His way of satsang was wrong? Dont be silly. Read the Harililamrut. Mahraj in there states that there will be a "charti and parti" (ups and downs) in this satsang, but He also states "one should never leave the banner of the two Gadis ever, those that do are vachan drohis and guru drohis". I have references and quotes if you like. So all can see besides yourself. Its obvious you will state that what you follow is truth. But you cannot contracdict the words of Swaminarayan Bhagwan can you? even if you do for how long will you?

 

 

 

No one has been going anywhere under the banner of BAPS. What proof do you have of this? Name me the ones who have done such? You are wrongly taking avgun and doing droh of acharyas and saints and even Gunatitanand swamios avto condemn this. So what exactly are you followingh? You dont even fallow gunatitatand Swamis Vato as you should be doing! Also tell me where is a so called gunatit parampara stated in teh swaminarayan scriptures?

 

Maninagar can do as they wish. They are also excommunicated like BAPS cult is as per Mahrajs wish.