Proof that Swaminarayan is the supreme Lord?

[santdasji]

Yeah. Same as Swaminarayan. God and His avtaars are one.

[dasnudas]

idiot first you look into your inner self then ask question

[jm.manilal]

Please dont go thru mess. But should go through our Sastras (Vedics, Puranas and Upanishats) Its always clear. Because, Its written Lord himself...Whatever we syays. It should have the reference from these.

 

Please see some quotes...

 

“Lord Krishna is the supreme” by Satyarāja dāsa

Śiva is among the most widely worshiped deities in India. With names such as Mahādeva (“the great god”) and Naṭarāja (“the king of dancers”), he is venerated in ancient holy cities like Benares, where Śaivites (as his worshipers are called) devote their lives to him, viewing him as the Supreme Lord.

The fact is, he is supreme. As the scriptures say, “Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is supreme among Purāṇas just as the Gaṅgā is the greatest of all rivers, Lord Acyuta [Viṣṇu] the best among deities, and Lord Śambhu [Śiva] the greatest among devotees of Lord Viṣṇu [vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhu].” (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 12.13.16) According to this and similar statements, Śiva may correctly be considered the greatest—at least among devotees—but among gods the supreme is Viṣṇu. This is made clear as far back as the Ṛg Veda (1.22.20): “The lotus feet of Viṣṇu are the supreme objective of all the demigods. Those lotus feet of the Lord are as enlightening as the sun in the sky.”

Śaivites, however, tend to see Śiva not just as the greatest devotee but as God Himself. There is some basis for this in scripture. In the Bhāgavatam (4.7.50) Lord Viṣṇu Himself says, “Brahmā, Lord Śiva, and I are the supreme cause of the material manifestation. I am the Supersoul, the self-sufficient witness. But impersonally there is no difference between Brahmā, Lord Śiva, and Me.”

In other words, all three divinities are one because they are all avatāras, or descents of the Supreme, for the creation, maintenance, and annihilation of the material world. In this context, they are known as guṇa-avatāras, and they preside over the modes of passion (embodied by Brahmā, the creator), goodness (embodied by Viṣṇu, the maintainer), and ignorance (embodied by Śiva, the destroyer). All three of these avatāras are considered aspects of the same principle of Godhead.

The Mahābhārata too (Anuśāsana-parva 135) says that Viṣṇu and Śiva are nondifferent and even counts the names Śiva, Śārva, Sthānu, Iśāna, and Rudra—names traditionally identified with Śiva—among the thousand names of Viṣṇu. Such identification between Śiva and the Supreme Lord seemingly gives weight to the idea of contemporary Hinduism that all the gods mentioned in the Vedic literature are one.

But a close study of scripture shows that while there is reason to see Śiva as nondifferent from Viṣṇu, there is also reason to distinguish strongly between them. According to Bhagavad-gītā, which is accepted by nearly all classes of transcendentalists in India—including Vaiṣṇavas and Śaivites—Viṣṇu (Kṛṣṇa) is the ultimate Godhead, to whom even Śiva must bow down. This is not a matter of opinion or sectarian prejudice. Kṛṣṇa identifies Himself as the source of all material and spiritual worlds (Bg. 10.8), and Arjuna confirms that Kṛṣṇa is indeed supreme (Bg. 10.12). Kṛṣṇa is “the God of all the gods” (deveśa, Bg. 11.37).

In countless incidents from the Purāṇas, Śiva is clearly seen to be Viṣṇu’s devotee. For example, there is the story of Vṛkāsura, a demon who practiced severe austerities and then asked Śiva for a boon—the power to kill at once any living being whose head Vṛkāsura would merely touch. Śiva granted the boon, but was soon to regret his decision, for Vṛka came after him to try out the newfound power. Lord Śiva ran to all parts of the universe to escape this power-mad devotee and finally ended up at the door of the kingdom of Viṣṇu.

Hearing the words of a frightened Śiva, Viṣṇu devised a plan to help him. Viṣṇu appeared directly before Vṛkāsura and told him Śiva was not to be trusted. “Śiva is fond of joking and even lying,” said Viṣṇu. “I am sure he is not telling you the truth. He was just teasing you. Touch your own head, and you will see that nothing will happen.”

Vṛka, of course, touched his own head and died. But the point of this story, in the present context, is Viṣṇu’s superiority over Śiva, who could not resolve the problem on his own. After racing through the entire material cosmos to escape Vṛkāsura, Śiva sought refuge in Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

To counter this, Śiva devotees cite traditions in which Rāma, for example, is seen as a devotee of Śiva. This would make an avatāra of Viṣṇu subservient to Śiva, and thus support the tenets of Śaivism. But upon closer study Rāma’s worship of Śiva turns out to be a later tradition, not supported in Vālmīki’s Rāmāyaṇa. Moreover, even these later traditions explain that Rāma became a devotee of Śiva only out of etiquette: Rāma wanted to become a greater devotee of Śiva than the evil Rāvaṇa was, and then ask Śiva for permission to defeat Rāvaṇa.

The Rāmāyaṇa offers many stories about the glories of Śiva—his destruction of Dakṣa’s sacrifice, his marriage with Umā (Pārvatī), his drinking of the ocean of poison, his killing of the demon Andhaka, his cursing of Kaṇḍarpa—but ultimately the Rāmāyaṇa makes the supremacy of Rāma quite clear. Rāma (as an incarnation of Viṣṇu) is supreme.

The differences between Śiva and Viṣṇu should be further underlined. As Śrīla Prabhupāda says (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.9.16, purport),Of the three principal agents controlling the three modes of material nature, Viṣṇu is the Almighty; even though He is within material nature for the purpose of maintenance, He is not controlled by the laws of material nature. The other two, Brahmā and Śiva, although almost as greatly powerful as Viṣṇu, are within the control of the material energy of the Supreme Lord.

Śiva is superior to Brahmā, who is an empowered soul (jīva), but Śiva is not quite on the same level as Viṣṇu. It is therefore said that Śiva is a unique living being who merits his own category, known as śiva-tattva.

To clarify Lord Śiva’s position, the Brahma-saṁhitā (5.45) offers an analogy: “When milk is transformed by acids into yogurt, the yogurt is neither the same as nor different from the milk. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda [Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu], of whom Lord Śiva is a transformation for performing the work of destruction.”

Though milk and yogurt are essentially nondifferent, yogurt is a product of milk. One can use milk to make ghee, cheese, ice cream, or yogurt, but one cannot turn yogurt into milk. Clearly, then, Śiva’s divinity is intimately connected with, even dependent upon, his relationship to Viṣṇu.

This is made clearer still in the Bhāgavatam (3.28.22): “The blessed Lord Śiva becomes all the more blessed by bearing on his head the holy waters of the Ganges, which has its source in the water that washed the Lord’s lotus feet.”

Śrīla Prabhupāda comments, “Lord Śiva is important because he is holding on his head the holy Ganges water, which has its origin in the footwash of Lord Viṣṇu.

“In the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, by Sanātana Gosvāmī, it is said that anyone who puts the Supreme Lord and the demigods, including Lord Śiva and Lord Brahmā, on the same level at once becomes a pāṣaṇḍī, or atheist. We should never consider the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu and the demigods to be on an equal footing.”

So, theologically, Śiva is both God and yet different from God as well. Because of Śiva’s intimate contact with the quality of ignorance and with matter (which is innately ignorant), the living beings in this world cannot receive the same spiritual restoration by worshiping him as by worshiping Viṣṇu.

And yet they try. As mentioned earlier, the worshipers of Śiva are second in number only to the worshipers of Viṣṇu. Śaiva Siddhānta, a form of Śiva worship found mainly in South India, is a force to be reckoned with, and Vīra Śaivism (or Lingāyatism), another form of the religion, is popular in the South Indian state of Karnataka.

There are other forms of Śiva worship as well, but the only authorized form comes down in the Rudra Sampradāya, also known as the Viṣṇusvāmī Sampradāya, an authorized Vaiṣṇava lineage in which Śiva is worshiped as the greatest devotee of Viṣṇu. Its adherents say that ultimate liberation comes from devotion to Viṣṇu. And Śiva, they say, showed how to be the perfect devotee. Even Śiva himself confirms that one can achieve the supreme destination only by the mercy of Viṣṇu. Lord Śiva says, mukti-pradātā sarveṣāṁ viṣṇur eva na saṁśayaḥ: “There is no doubt that Viṣṇu is the deliverer of liberation for everyone.”

Satyarāja Dāsa is a disciple of Śrīla Prabhupāda and a regular contributor to Back to Godhead. He has written several books on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He and his wife live in New York City.

 

 

 

 

 

The Birth of Lord Śiva

The pastime of Lord Śiva’s birth is described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (3.12.7–13): “Although Brahmā tried to curb his anger, it came out from between his eyebrows, and a child of mixed blue and red was immediately generated. “After his [Śiva’s] birth, he began to cry: O destiny maker [brahmā], teacher of the universe, kindly designate my name and place. “The all-powerful Brahmā, born from the lotus flower, pacified the boy with gentle words, accepting his request, and said: Do not cry. I shall certainly do as you desire. “Thereafter, Brahmā said: O chief of the demigods, you shall be called by the name Rudra by all people because you have anxiously cried. “My dear boy, I have already selected the following places for your residence: the heart, the senses, the air of life, the sky, the air, the fire, the water, the earth, the sun, the moon, and austerity. "My dear Rudra, you have eleven other names: Manyu, Manu, Mahinasa, Mahān, Śiva, Ṛtadhvaja, Ugraretā, Bhava, Kāla, Vāmadeva, and Dhṛtavrata. O Rudra, you also have eleven wives, called the Rudrāṇīs, and they are as follows: Dhī, Dhṛti, Rasalā, Umā, Niyut, Sarpi, Ilā, Ambikā, Irāvatī, Svadhā, and Dīkṣā.” Śiva and Pārvatī, as his wife is also known, have their abode in Śiva-loka, between the material and spiritual worlds (see Brahma-saṁhitā 5.43). This description is of how Śiva appeared in the material world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The following 'proof' was emailed to me. Can anyone actually say whether this is a true quote from the Vishvaksen Samhitah?

 

 

 

In the Vishvaksen Samitah Lord Vishwaksen says:

 

II Bhumyam krutaavataroham sarvannataam jaganmaham

Praapishyaami vaikuntham Sahajanand Namataha II

 

This Verse states that :

 

Among all parts of the universe I take birth on Earth, I shall adore Vaikunth adopting the name Sahajanand. Such scriptures prove Lord Sahajanand Swami (Swaminarayan) as the vedic acceptance of incarnated Suprememe Reality.

 

The full name Shajanand is given by Lord Vishvaksen. The Brahmapurana also states such: " Kalouswami Vrushatmaja". That in Kaliyug "i" as in Lord supreme will come as 'Swami' son of Dharm.

[L33L4]

Hey hey hey, this does not happen all the time. My family are Patels and we never disregard any God be it anyone. My family is hindu but we all follow our own ishtadevs. For example, my Dad is a devout Ram bhagwan follower, he never fails to sing Hanuman chalisa everyday. My mom follows krishna bhagwan because she has so much bhav for Him. And me, i follow the BAPS sampraday. We are not one of those families which have a ishtadev and parents force their kids to follow the family ishtadev. And we NEVER disregard any Devi/Devta

[L33L4]

Jai Shri Krishna

Jai Swaminarayan

 

I'm a Swaminarayan(BAPS) and a disciple of HDH Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Here on these forums there have been alot of fighting between the Vadtal/Ahmedabad sect and the BAPS sect. Whenever we say that BAPS is the sanstha Maharaj wanted, the Vadtal followers always ask for proof from the Swaminarayan shastras(seen it many times). Well, not everything has evidence. A criminal accused of murder but there is no evidence does NOT make him innocent. Proof, we want proof, arrgh! Realise this(this is not based PROOF, this is based on logic and example). If we were vimukh, would Bhagwan Swaminarayan allow us to grow into such a big organisation. NO HE WOULD NOT, Bhagwan would do something to get rid of Pramukh Swami Maharaj, but no He didn't. If the Vadtal sect was the true sampraday Maharaj wanted, He would not let it get involved in corruption and scandals. In fact, even if the true sanstha did get involved in immoral practices(like Vadtal), i would guarantee Maharaj would incarnate to set things right, but no He didn't. He has let the Vadtal sect get involved in scandals because it is NOT the sanstha He wanted. This is not based on proof, this is based on example. Now stop asking for proof and realise this.Oh and by the way, Krishna is Swaminarayan and Swaminarayan is Krishna.

 

Jai Shri Krishna

Jai Swaminarayan

[L33L4]

Our BAPS santos dont follow the principals of Maharaj.............OMG..............your santos are the ones who were involved in scandals. Also, your santos look at women, take money...........and you say our santos dont follow the principles. LOL . If the Vadtal sampraday was the true sanstha Maharaj wanted, im pretty sure he would not let it become so corrupt as it is now.

 

JSN

[preeti1]

In my views Lord Shiva is the supreme of everything in the universe . As there are proofs available of Shiv Linga found from thousands years back. And We should have more care of helping others that are in a physical pain of some diseases. A patient with diseases has suffering from hell in the real life. We should help them as how much we can.

[fayarus123]

Ajit...very true.

[Kushal Prajapati]

Hmm... Its Really Difficult to Understand what is right and wrong by our-self... I think every person has there own thinking and emotions... thus who fulfills this same felling, the person gets attached to the those. thus Nothing is wrong in this... Lord Swaminarayan has clearly said never take Bad or negative things from the Satsang ,Saints or Devotiess. then Y we Use to think about that, this sampraday is Bad or not following such things, Y not take the best part of the Sampraday and make our self more Positive and Successful. If we trust god more than Our-self then He will surely give us identification of what is good and bad... so first try to Trust him...

Jai Swaminarayan...

[L33L4]

not trying to cause more dispute here, but i must say this because im BAPS

 

the vadtal diocese sadhus and devotees did try to poison Shastriji Maharaj. Shastriji Maharaj knew there was poison in his food from the smell but he had to eat it because it was Shriji Maharajs prasadi food. Also they beat up Yogiji Maharaj and his accompyning blind sadhu and as they were doing it they said 'lets see how your Gunatit comes and saves you'. luckily some BAPS devotees came there and settled everything.

[L33L4]

fighting over who is supreme god is as irrational as two brothers fighting over whos father is better.

 

GOD IS ONE

[L33L4]

Bhagatji Maharaj was a shishya of Gopalanand Swami. When Gopalanand Swami was on his deathbed Bhagatji Maharaj started crying. Gopalanand Swami, before returning to Akshardham, told Bhagatji Maharaj that if he wanted to learn all about materialistic and wordly affairs then go to a king, and if he wanted to learn about both wordly affairs and spiritual knowledge then go to the Jogi of Junagadh, Gunatitanand Swami, the master in spiritual and materialistic knowledge.

 

 

Once Gopalanand Swami told some haribhakto farmers to go to the farm and harvest the crops. When the haribhaktos reached there Gunatitanand Swami told them to go back and he himself will do the harvesting. When the haribhaktos came back Gopalanand Swami reprimanded them. They replied saying that Gunatitanand Swami had sent them. Gopalanand laughed and said, 'Oh, it was the Jogi of Junagadh! Then stay, because he is the only saint in the entire universe who is better then me.'

[L33L4]

Ok for all those people claiming that Ram is better, Krishna is better, Swaminarayan is better, Shiv is better etc etc

I've only got one thing to say..............

Jag mein sundar hein do naam, chaahe Krishna kaho ya Ram. Bolo Ram Ram Ram, bolo Shyam Shyam Shyam.

Yes thats right. People worship their particular God or Goddess because He/She is very beloved to them. We, as human beings, have no right whatsoever to try to change anyone's belief. Pray to your God/Goddess with utmost faith, devotion and love. This is more important.

Whether you are Swaminarayan, Vaishnav, Jain, Shaivite etc, THE BEST RELIGION IN THE WORLD IS.......

H.U.M.A.N.I.T.Y

[kmira]

That is true, Swaminarayan is no incarnation of lord Krishna, swaminarayan is not god. swaminarayan established two gadi, Narnayan and Laxminarayan. In Narnarayan there are three murtis Lord Krishna radthaji and swaminarayan that means swaminarayan is nar and the Lord Krishna is narayan.

 

Did you read vanchanamurata? In vachanamuta swaminarayan said you should worship only lord Krishna. at list give the respect vachanamurta. and nothing is before brahma vishnu mahesh.

[m4h4nti]

jai swamynarayan

[mungu]

baps is a normal temple,not called mandir,sort of marketing means,so does it spreads without any meaning,followers are all blind,they dont understand wt to digest,as they are being served non digestive food( wrong way of preachin),they can not be under swaminarayan sampraday,as swaminarayan bhagwans original shiksapatri baps has totaly scraped made by them selves,which is absolutly out of way.

[L33L4]

honestly why are u complaining about BAPS. and why do u care. You don't have the right to say what is right and what is

wrong to other religions/sects, simple as that(unless we have said something bad about ur sampraday FIRST). If u are from swaminarayan sampraday then good for you, I'm not gonna stop you. If you have a problem with us being in BAPS well then theres nothing you can do but go have a cry in the corner of ur bedroom. we have not done ur sampraday any harm, so no need to insult our BAPS. and one more thing.......YOUR NOT GONNA CONVERT US NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TRY.......so its better u just leave us to do our bhakti. I honestly hate these 10 year olds on the internet who do not have ANY SENSE OF MANNERS to others and annoy the absolute crap outta them, like you. SO JUST PLEASE SHUT UP AND GET LOST, coz ur not gonna change our mindsets. It is impossible to make us convert coz BAPS EK PARIVAR. stop trying to show us your 'proof' of the scriptures and aarti, coz seriously we cannot be bothered reading it. i feel more comfortable under Pramukh swami. if you have a problem with that, well I'm afraid you can't do anything

JSN

[Guest Guest]

why dose baps have to change the arti and every thing else. The shiksipitri say that the Acharya has to give santos dista .

 

 

ps stop talk bad about vadtal

[bharat05]

 

Jai Swaminarayan Akshar.

 

My Name is Kishan. I am A Kishore at the BAPS mandir in Portland, OR. What Mandal are you from?

 

I have read your posts and i do agree with you. Although when you say that Krishna Avtaar didn't make India a better place to live, thats not true. It did because that avtaar killed Paapi's like Kamsa, Duryodhan, Shakuni, and others. When Maharaj Came on the Earth, he Made it a better Place to live by NOT killing, but By changing there Aasurik Tatvo's and Making Them Good things. He Destroyed there Evil Ways, NOT them Thats somthing the Other Avtars DIDN'T do. so yeah.

 

if you don't mind, then i would like to call you and do some Goshti on this matter.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

Pramukh Swami Maharaj Ni JAI!!!!

BAPS Shatabdi Mahotsav Ni JAI!!!

 

If god comes to change Aasuri tatva then why the first place he created them. One way we say that God controls everything and everything has been created by him. I would like to ask then what was the need to create greed, anger and lust? Swaminaryan happened in era of repression and anarchy in India due to British rule. What Swaminarayan did to overthrow the British rule? isn't it funny that all believers of Swaminaryan sect takes pride in British donated a land for building temple to Swaminarayan. The Indian land was belongs to India but Swaminaryan didn't have courage to speak a single word to address it correctly. The right set of people like Subhashbabu, Bhagat Singh, Lakshmibai, Gandhi like personalities recognized the status of Indian land correctly by asking British to vacate it. While Lord Swaminarayan went to British to get it in donation. To me Swaminarayan was a great man with lots of wisdom to infuse social reform in society at that point of time. He has changed life of several disillusion people. However, I know several such social reformers has started believing that they are incarnation of lord Krishana. Many are present at this point of time and many will be declared in future at appropriate time. If great man has died some 200 years ago then it is easy to prove that person as incarnation of God. Pandurang Shashtri, Asharambapu, Narayan Krishna, Satya Saibaba, Pramukh swami, Hariprasad swami and many more God in making. They all are God of 22nd century.

 

 

Ohm

asato ma sadgamaya

tamaso ma jyotirgamaya

mrtyorma amrtam gamaya

[OhMyGod]

Can any one please tell us why pratima / statue / picture of ramanand swami (guru of bhawan swaminarayan) is not placed in any temple? Shri swaminarayan bhagwan was appointed as head of uddhav sampraday. Can we say that swaminarayan sampraday and uddhav sampraday are same?

[Guest maulik]

not proof at all

i admire your  thoughts....

[Guest Pukaar]

First of all I m born in Hindu family who practiced Ramanuja sampraday I am not muslim or christian

 

 .. stop all these..

 

where was god any god that takes avatar on this earth while the muslims emprerors were beheading hindus, where was these so called avatars when somanath temple was attecked, when they built taj mahal on hindu temple just like they did on the Ram mandir in Ayodhya, why didnt god came to this earth when centuaries ago crusaders were killing everyone who didn't believe in Christ, where were these avatars when Hitler and stalin were killing millians of people.. or these avatars discriminates against jewish or for so called non hindu people, why didn't swaminarayan stop British empire from spreading in india, he could have stopped by just looking or poiting finger at any thing. or this gods are racist and discriminatory .. and only wants to show "leela" to hindus.. what about africa.. thousands of people die everyday.. what these gods...or sankracharya.. or pramukhswami.. or acharya from ahm or vadtal has done.. they wouldn't even know how many countries there are in Africa. where were these avatars when the pacific countries were hit by the tsunami.. i konw what you would say now that sheshnag.. was the reason behind.. the tsunami.. wake up to your self people.. our vedas, puranas, upnishada they all say.. we have classes.. and certain classes do certain jobs.. is it human.

Do we know what humanity is.. these people belive now that Pramukh swami is God, Hariprasad Swami is God, same way the believers of Asaram beleive... All thses is killing our new generations and making them dummmer ...every day..

"Moksha" :  God doesn't help you with anything but takes you to akshardham/vaikunth when you die... what sort of god we are talking about, god wants us to stay happy, why would he want us to suffer.. and why would he create all these if all these don't even matter..

[Guest Neha]

 

Also 99.9% semi-Narayan followers are Patels. Once a person joins this cult they throw away the statues of other gods in their home saying they are inferior. I have witnessed this myself.

No we swaminarayans do not throw away the statuses of other gods. If you visit any of our temples you will find Radha krishna ganpati and hanuman idols

Also it is stated in our holy book Shikshapatri that we the devotees of lord swaminarayan should not throw away on any gods or holy men and should pay respect and bow to Vishnu shiv Parvati ganpati and surya. And if by chance while travelling if you see any temple irrespective of whom, bow to that temple.