Ayodhya - A humble lesson from south

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

 

Recently a group of anti-social elements claimed that the grand Kapaleeshwarar Temple in Chennai is actually 200 yrs old only and the original temple, which was more than 2000yrs old was destroyed by Protuguese and Santhome Cathedral is standing over that piece of land.

 

Fortunately, the enlightened Saivite community nipped a potential violence.

 

Why didn't this issue explode in south as it did in the north? In order to understand that we must realize the way we see god and places of worship.

 

For us god is present everywhere, we don't arrest god inside stone idols. However, we do worship idols because idols help us remain focussed on god and concentrate on our prayers.

 

Also we see temples not just as a mere place of worship, but also as a place for strengthening our social and community bonds.

 

Hence the insignificant piece of land on which a temple stands is irrelevant to us.

 

If everyone understands this universal truth, we would not be seeing people killing each other over small piece of land when in reality god is present everywhere around us and inside us.

[Guest guest]

Dear Shivite,

 

For your information, majority of those who broke the the structure in Ayodhya were SHIVITES and believers in Shiva as supreme or followers of Advaita. One of the my close friend from Punjab who mounted the structure and broke it was also a very strong SHIVITE and not a Vaishnava.

 

To my knowledge no Vaishnava community was even involved in this events.

 

and for your information, majority of Northeners are staunch followers of Shiva.

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

 

Not so much of humbleness I am afraid, I fell for it in your quote of “anbE Sivam!” I thought you spoke and practiced love, but since then I have read most of your post and majority are hateful and divisive.

What you call stone ideal to a lot of people it is not mere representation of god but actual god. The deity, through Vedic mantras and pranPrthista process, is non different from god, yes we must fill the presence of god every where but the temple becomes a focal point where the presence is more focused.

While it is commendable to avoid violence and common sense to prevail but it is utterly cowardice to suggest that an aggressor to be appeased and not protect your property.

What you call an insignificant piece of land irrelevant is very dear to lots of Ram Bhakta.

I doubt if someone occupy your house, you will have same view and suggest to that person you are welcome sir, have some more.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[maadhav]

<< If everyone understands this universal truth, >>

 

did you preach it successfully to any muslim?

if not, they why prach to the Hinndus who are the victims of Islam?

 

if you can convince this universal truth to muslims and xians, then help them realize that there is no need to convert any hindu and no need to build any mosque or church in india. no need for madressas either.

 

till you succeed in convincing these anti-vedics,

there is no sense in wasting your time here in convincing it to the victim hindus; to do so is sin or unethical.

 

Arjun needed Krishna's message, not Gandhi's.

 

same is true at this time.

 

[Guest guest]

Hello Brothers n Sisters,

I hv been following some of the posts for some time and am struck on how strong these feelings of disparateness, superiority/inferiority and us / them runs strong among us.

Its time to take a more mature view and keep going forward.

These statements on the intolerance of the Muslims and Christians and further that between Shaivas and Vaishnavas is not becoming of a mature individual. Strife between followers of different religions / schools of thought has been present since the times when people of two faiths / schools had to encounter each other. In these times, we shud know that faith is purely an individual's choice and she is free to hold that her views are good but certainly not, to hold the view that her views alone are good and other's bad.

 

Tx for the time.

[Guest guest]

Muslims should give the due to the place of worship of Ram in Ayodhya, like what's due to a king.

 

And then the muslims should learn to live like a majority in India, without embracing the cold identity of a minority.

 

Many of christian organization and muslim organizations have always loved to acquire valuable real estate and build their places of worship right amidst the places of worship of the majority community.

 

So if their minority followers feel insecure, and scared amidst the majority community, it's no fault of the people on either sides. It's the wicked motives of their religious bodies to ask their poor minority people to spread into sensitive pockets around the hindu places of worship.

 

If this is the case, why at all create conversion to create more minority following. These wicked motives of the religious bodies are nothing new as it is older than the times of the mughuls.

 

Minority communties need to seperate themselves from their wicked religious bodies, right now. How many children of the minorities would like to don new clothes, eat sweets, and burn crackers for a diwali in Ayodhya. And how many of them would feel that they are having fun themselves, than the psuedo satisfaction of demonstrating of being great social role-model. The minroity communities should ask to live a life for themselves, than suck up to their religious bodies.

 

[Guest guest]

I agree with your feelings on the subject but cannot apply such guidelines as you suggest.

The reason for that is my own observation in how real estate for religious purposes in a foreign land is being acquired. Here, you are right in the middle of churches everywhere around you and yet you seek a place of worship for your own community too. You cannot build at the far end of town or state,or else, you are invading the local's sensitive pockets? The Hindu temples I see here are in the midst of christian majority only. Howelse can Hindu religion prosper if we cannot have our places of worship in convenient places, even if it happens to be in a christian majority area?

 

But we make sure not to disturb or disrupt the locals, that is the issue. This is difficult. When there is space and it is available, no problems.

 

I do not apply this rule to a holy temple that was damaged and destroyed with ill intentions, here the community has a right to appeal for justice, I feel.

 

 

[Guest guest]

If you are the christian religious body, I suggest you stop treating your minority converts as some sort of snow dogs and ask them to push the cart into senitive areas where majority community worships.

 

You promise them a future confident life, if they continue to push the christian cart into majority hindu pockets. You promise them a glorious future with current sacrifices to live amidst a majority of hindus, like terrorist who promise of making sacrifices today for their community of tomorrow. And you screw up their feeling of oneness with the majority community today.

 

Hindus don't want to make sure that we have the support of the international christian community to ask for the ram janmaboomi. Infact I think we should leave it as a call for the local hindu and the local muslims of Ayodhya to take a call.

 

The minority muslim suckers have escalated to the international muslim bodies thinking that they are going to protect them and give them and their children a good night sleep in ayodhya. They are kidding. The minority muslim suckers and the christian of chennai are being used like the snow dogs pulling the cart through difficult climatic conditions.

 

Promise by the religious bodies to their minority communities of a peaceful tomorrow, is very similar to that of terrorist mobilizing support.

 

It's only a matter of time when we will see all these minorities roll back to the hindu majority. Thats the only way out for the minority community to elevate themselves from being cart pullers.

[Guest guest]

You completely misunderstand my point.

Again, where majority christians live, Hindu religion must have a right to exist. But, it has to be in a way that we do not cause disruption and disaster!

 

No one was able to convert me to a christian and no one will. I only strive to find peace through my own religion in a place surrounded by a christians.

But in a foreign land, when you end up being a minority, we have less options as majority [christians] rule. Our strength is to have more descipline in practice than I could get away with in India as being majority, as the elusive appearance of stability takes over us there even when on shaky grounds.

 

Regarding international support, if Hindus, whereever they are wished to support other Hindus, don't you want that? I would want that. Again, I don't want their interference, but certainly support in many ways that one could achieve it. The world has gotten smaller, you cannot isolate yourself anymore.

 

Sorry if my English is not good or my writing. But, I am trying to communicate, being new at such an attempt.

[Azygos]

STOP THIS NORTH INDIAN SOUTH INDIAN .

 

We are all indians first and indians last.....

 

Moreover, advaita is not shiva worship. Adiata is absolute monism, nonduality

 

 

Stop deciding who is greater Shiva or Vishnu. Have you

seen any of them yourself??? WHo are you to decide!!!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Only Lord SHiva can decide - and his conclusion can be read in the Srimad Bhagavatam.

[Guest guest]

Fortunately, the enlightened Saivite community nipped a potential violence.

 

I am not sure that wud have been right thing happened /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

For us god is present everywhere, we don't arrest god inside stone idols. However, we do worship idols because idols help us remain focussed on god and concentrate on our prayers.

 

Idols are not the object for keeping focussed on god. Idols represent directly the supreme lord and he actually lives in them. There are stories in puranas when idols moved and talked, what do ya say for this? There will be a procedure of 'prana Prathista ' before worshipping any diety , which invites the lord of vaikunta or kailasa to come and sit in the idol and give grace to all.

 

Infact , then the idol becomes the diety and it becomes worshipppable . So you shud understnad the difference b/w idol and the diety .

 

Also we see temples not just as a mere place of worship, but also as a place for strengthening our social and community bonds .

 

Hell no! can you ask a muslim to come and pray inside temple, no way , then u wud have to allow cut cows in the temple , good idea Huuu!

 

If everyone understands this universal truth, we would not be seeing people killing each other over small piece of land when in reality god is present everywhere around us and inside us.

 

Thats where the problem is , not everyone knows the truth is same and to reach it NO KILLING IS REQUIRED, so why COW KILLING?

 

" Raam Naam Mani Deep dharo

Jeeha dehari dhwaar

 

Tulasi beethar bahiro

jho paavasi Ujiyaara"

 

Bolo seeta pathi ramachandra ki Jai

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

"Idols are not the object for keeping focussed on god. Idols represent directly the supreme lord and he actually lives in them. There are stories in puranas when idols moved and talked, what do ya say for this? There will be a procedure of 'prana Prathista ' before worshipping any diety , which invites the lord of vaikunta or kailasa to come and sit in the idol and give grace to all."

 

If someone has created a name or form of God from his own imagination, then that is an idol. If the form is given from revealed scriptures, as is the case with Vishnu, they are to be described as deities, not idols.

 

 

"Hell no! can you ask a muslim to come and pray inside temple, no way , then u wud have to allow cut cows in the temple , good idea Huuu!"

 

One should allow anybody in the temple - unless they insist on cutting cows inside the temple. Why do you assume that this is what the Muslim would want to do inside the temple?

 

Hare Krishna