All Hindus hear....

[bhadramoorthi]

"..I can totally understand the state of mind you are in.

One of the Vaishnava fanatics dared to call even adi shankaracharya as fool.they even called ramana maharishi fake etc...

so there is no point in arguing with these guys.

Even in real life, I find vaishnavas the most argumentative people. it need not be about religion, it can be anything.. they have very strong views and stick to it. .."

 

What you said is extremely true.I agree.May Mother bless you.

[BinduMadhav]

Sephiroth says...

 

"When Veda Vyasa interpreted Shivatees as Tamasic, it means that they live accepting Ignorance mode and overcoming it, NOT allowing it to overcome them."

 

Can you please provide a reference here? I have read Mahabharatha several times and I don't remember Veda Vyasa calling Shaivites 'Tamasik'.

 

 

 

[vmd]

It is obious that everyone will claim that his way of doing things are most bonafied/perfect. Whatever is wrong for one may be right for others and anyway who would be the judge to settle this issue.

 

But there is answer to everying thing and that is hidden in the sastras like vedas, puranas and upnisads. If one is fortunate he might get the answers.

 

Bhagavatam is considered the ripen fruit of all the vedas/puranas & upnisads and it is declared by the same author ie Veda Vyasa who has complied all other scriptures. Therefore his opinion should be the best and hardly can be challenged by anyone.

 

Question might come that why then Veda Vyasa written so many other scriptures and given different instructions to the performers/practitioners.

 

The answers to this that he provided the facilities for all kinds of people in the differents modes and by following his instructions in the end they will elevate from lower modes to higher modes which will help to end the cycle of repeated birth and death of this miserable world. At the end of their sadhana/perfction of yoga they will transmigrate to GOLOKA Dhama, from where no one returns back to this material world.

 

Hope this will help

[ashok.dcm]

I just came across this thread and it seems that this is a very old thread. I joined immediately to post my views.

Why are you people fighting over who is supreme?

I am a Hindu. I am a great devotee of Ganesh, Krishna, Shiva, Maa Durga, Kali, everyone.

My question is, what difference does it make if one God is supreme? By the way I didnt understand the concept of these "levels" in god. Is it something like CEO >> Directors >> Vice Presidents >> AVP >> Exec Managers >> Managers >> Asst Managers >> Sr. Staff >> Staff >> Jr. Staff >> Sub Staff??????

Please dont think that Bhagawatgita is a book which says Vishu is supreme. Wherever Krishna said "I am supreme" he didnt mean that "Vishnu is supreme". It simply meant that "God is supreme".

I am not even talking about other religions and their beliefs though I personally feel that God is one and he doesnt have any shape or size. He is universal.

My mom always says onething "Shivaya Vishnu rupaya, Shiva rupaya Vishnave". It is from Skandopanishat if I am not wrong. It also says "yatha shivamayo vishnur evam vishnumayah shivah". It means "just as Vishnu is filled with Shiva, so is Shiva filled with Vishnu".

The greatness of Gita is that it never forced you to do anything. It just asked you to do your karma properly without having any attachment to the result. You have only right to karma.

 

Gita never forced you to accept Vishnu as supreme god nor it never said that Shiva is supreme or any other god. That is its greatness.

 

I feel purified whenever I hear to Gita. At the same time the "Shiva tandav stotra" and other Shiva stotras make me devotional. So is with any shloka of hindu deities.

 

If you think one god is supreme to another (whether from same religion or different religion) you are committing a great sin against the same "supreme god".

 

God bless you all!!!

[bhaktajan]

Please dont think that Bhagawatgita is a book which says Vishu is supreme. Wherever Krishna said "I am supreme" he didnt mean that "Vishnu is supreme". It simply meant that "God is supreme".

 

Hare Krishna-jan calling:

 

You are wrong. Your sentiment is that of an atheist that decries the principle that Godhead is a transcendent personality, namely, Krishna.

 

Krishna is God in his Original-Original-Form, which coincidently advented on this very planet 5,000 years ago in Mathura.

 

Wherever Krishna said "I am supreme" he indeed mean that "He is Supreme".

 

Your statement is as per the Sunyavadi-school of Hindu Philosophy--which aims at nirvana and/or celestial life and/or mundane creature-comforts --as the goal of moksha.

 

My statement is as per the Brahma-Madhva-Chaitanya-Gaudiya-Vaisnava-school of Hindu Philosophy--which aims at Devotional sadhana to Krishna's personage, whose personage is Known as the father of all the MahaVisnu-tattvas, and the Brahmajyoti and Brahmaji, and thus, Krishna is the adi-Mahapita-ma all the devatas--as the goal of moksha. This presented by Vyasadeva in his summary of the Vedanta-sutras in The Bhagavata-purana.

 

If there is a single almighty God without equal --he can be found difined to every detail in the Srimad-bhagavatam.

 

Why would any one wait for any more future births if they can now view the open book of the Cream of Vedic Literatures:

The Bhagavad-gita as it is and then,

the Srimad-bhagavatam by

A.C. bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada --an old Indian Wise man --who every Indian should Keep a copy of the stamp with his image that was use in the Post Mail System in Bharata (India) circa 1996 [?].

 

All the devatas are cousins with the same Grandfather: Brahmaji.

Brahmaji was born from the lotus,

that sprung from garbhodakasayi-Maha-Visnu,

who lied on the bed of ananta-sesha-naga,

upon the waters of the garbho-ocean,

within one of the countless 'Brahmanda'-egg-like bubbles,

that emeges from mahavisnu's breathing.

Mahavisnu sleeps within his own cloud of such breath-bubbles [brahmandas]-- this is the material world [8 elements influx via Creation-Maintanence-Desolution-Cycles with jivas added to pursue enjoyment], this is only one-quarter of the total creation.

 

The other three-quarters of the total creation [not visiable from our finite possition within the depths of the Brahmanda's interior core] is:

"Spiritual-Sky" that is illuminated by Krishna's bodily effulgence--this is the transcendent divyam-prakriti [devine-Energy (sat-cit-ananda)] where jivas may eventually return to serve none other than adi-purusha bhagavan Sri Krishna, the Supreme personality of Godhead.

[RadheyRadhey108]

I'm sorry you've encountered such hardship from this person, bhadramoorthi Ji. Devi is very powerful. I'm sure She loves you very much, and that's all that really matters in the end. Just because this guy doesn't believe in Devi Bhagavata Purana doesn't make it any less true. Just stop talking to the jerk... maybe in his next life he'll encounter the love and the power of Ma.

Jai Mata Ji!

[ashok.dcm]

You are wrong. Your sentiment is that of an atheist that decries the principle that Godhead is a transcendent personality, namely, Krishna.

I didn't understand how my sentiment is an atheist sentiment. My understanding is that athiest is a person who doesn't believe in the existance of God. I believe in the existance of God whether it is Vishnu, Shiva, Devi or anyone.

 

Well, I didn't deny that Krishna is powerful and he is supreme. But at the same time we shouldn't be comparing one God with another. Shiva, Devi - all are powerful and I believe they are supreme too.

 

The holy Gita is not a book of mythology unlike Ramayana or other Puranas.(Please don't misinterpret the word "Mythology" here. My intentions are not to indicate that they are myths but it is in a purely positive sense). Gita is purely a book of philosophy. It shows us the right path to live. It shows us the truth. It shows us the light.

 

Thanks all!

[bhaktajan]

The great revelation of the Gita -- Is that God is a Person, with personal traits.

 

The concept of one personality, and only one person, is the truth behind the cosmos = Theism.

 

The singular Source of the Cosmos and all created in it IS A SINGLE PERSON.

 

That SINGLE PERSON is "adi-purusha" the first person.

 

This first person is ABSOLUTE. Therefore the truth behind the material & spiritual manifestations is a Single Person.

 

This Single Person is the TRUTH behind the mystery of existence--to seek out this Single Person, and thus, to re-unite ["yoga" to re-link] with his abode, pastimes and person is the "conclusion of the Vedas".

 

Krishna is explained by the Vedas as the Transcendent Godhead incarnate.

We meet him in the Royal Household of the Hastinapura 3,000 years BCE.

 

The devatas were all born of Brahmaji and are descendant therefrom.

All devatas are jiv-atmas with exaulted positions as administrators of cosmic affairs, who will live and die the very same all living being do.

 

To angrandise oneself to any Deva is OK--but it is best to remind these devas of their own devotion to the one and only Supreme Personality of Godhead, the source of Maha-Vishnu and the Lord of the Transcendent Spiritual Sky which is beyond the perview and Laws of Material Cosmic Energy (Maya-Prakriti).

 

Out side the manifest Maya-Prakriti is Divyam-Prakriti.

 

This Divyam-Prakriti is made of "spiritual" energy ["Divyam-Prakriti"] which is constituted by "sattva-Chitta-Ananda" [sat-cit-ananda, aka, eternality-cognizance-bliss].

 

Each jivatma [soul] is its own indivisible, insoluable, indestructable finitely tiny partical of 'satcitananda-energy'.

 

By definition I am herein relating to you that Krishna is the original-original fountainhead-Reservior-Source form of sat-cit-ananda.

 

Krishna is Godhead, as we, down through the ages of western recorded history, have all hoped might exist.

 

Now Krishna, as Godhead, is revealed to the busy world, as He was, as He is, and, as He will be.

 

Knowledge via the Vedas of "Krishna as Godhead" has been covered by material indifference and sundry propaganda by those who past by on their way to other conquests, other than, an absolute search for Truth as pasted down by the sages of vedic civilisation [ie: Alexander The Great, Nepolian, Moghuls, Brits, French, Portuguese, Bhuddists, Shankar-ites, etc etc].

 

At the end of the Mahabharata, the Royal households and especially the Brahmana class disappeared while riding the coat-tails of Krishna and his entourage, as he left this planet 3,000 BCE.

 

Thus what then passed as the intelligensia allowed for the proliferation of animal sacrifies as a so-called sacrifice to the Gods, and also made way for poly-theistic ideas to spread world-wide. Later Buddha came to stop this by decrying the existance of devatas as false etc etc etc.

 

Godhead is "sat-cit-ananda-vigraha" The Personal Form possessing all personal traits and cosmic majesties combined unlimitedly alone and above all others--this is Theism. All else is speculation base on a narrow field of reference.

 

Your best course of action is to begin with eating as much Krishna-Prasadam as humanly possible day-after-day.

 

You probably know the rest of the sadhana and regulations and yajna and Hari-nama sankirtana & Hari-nama japa & Hari-nama Bhajans that are required by first class Brahmanical personel, so I will keep my response it short-winded.

 

Happy to explain gita to Krishna's Lost children,

Bhaktajan

[princegoutham]

Hinduism is not a single religion

its the collection of Saivism,Shaktismn,Vaishnavism,Smartism is known today as Hinduism

But All four believe in karma and reincarnation and in a Supreme Being who is both form and pervades form, who creates, sustains and destroys the universe only to create it again in unending cycles. They strongly declare the validity and importance of temple worship, in the three worlds of existence and the myriad Gods and devas residing in them. They concur that there is no intrinsic evil, that the cosmos is created out of God and is permeated by Him. They each believe in maya (though their definitions differ somewhat), and in the liberation of the soul from rebirth, called moksha, as the goal of human existence. They believe in dharma and in ahimsa, noninjury, and in the need for a satguru to lead the soul toward Self Realization. They wear the sacred marks, tilaka, on their foreheads as sacred symbols, though each wears a distinct mark. Finally, they prefer cremation of the body upon death, believing that the soul will inhabit another body in the next life. While Hinduism has many sacred scriptures, all sects ascribe the highest authority to the Vedas and Agamas, though their Agamas differ somewhat

 

Eg-like Christianity-(30+ CE) Christianity is divided into three main sects: Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant. Among Protestants there are over 20,000 denomin-ations.

Eastern Orthodox-(1054 CE),Lutheran -Martin Luther (1517),Anglican -Henry VIII (1534),Methodist -John Wesley (1739)

Worldwide Church of God -Herbert Armstrong (1933),Baptist John Smyth (1609),Presbyterian -John Knox (1625),Quakers -George Fox (1647),Mormon Joseph Smith (1830) to sum in word they are called Christianity

 

The Ultimate Truth

 

Saivism: There are no divine earthly incarnations of the Supreme Being.

 

(as we believe the supreme God doesn't take birth in the world which was Created by Him he send his Divine Powers in form of Avatars such as Rama,Krishna etc.to save the world,That's why all these Gods worshipped him on earth)

God Siva is one with the soul. The soul must realize this advaitic (monistic) Truth by God Siva's grace

 

With bhakti as a base, emphasis is placed on sadhana, tapas (austerity) and yoga. Ascetic.

 

texts-Vedas, Saiva Agamas and Saiva Puranas

 

Geographically widespread, strongest in South and North India, Nepal and Sri Lanka.

 

Time less Truth to be accepted

 

Saivism is ancient, truly ageless, for it has no beginning. It is the precursor of the many-faceted religion now termed Hinduism. Scholars trace the roots of Siva worship back more than 8,000 years to the advanced Indus Valley civilization. But sacred writings tell us there never was a time when Saivism did not exist

 

It provides knowledge of man's evolution from God and back to God, of the soul's unfoldment and awakening guided by enlightened sages. Like all the sects, its majority are devout families, headed by hundreds of orders of swamis and sadhus who follow the fiery, world-renouncing path to moksha.

 

 

The Vedas state, "By knowing Siva, the Auspicious One who is hidden in all things, exceedingly fine, like film arising from clarified butter, the One embracer of the universe by realizing God, one is released from all fetters." Aum Namah Sivaya

 

The Cosmic Dance of Shiva.

God and his creation are One. Yet God hides himself from his creation to give himself the joy of discovering God. God is both Creator and the Created. This is also known as the Wisdom of Balance. The Uncreated God and The Created God are One, yet the creation is attached to the grand illusion of separateness. Whenever God's creation discovers God, God discovers himself all over again. God delights in the dance of hiding and discovering his glory. The Cosmic Dance of Shiva.

 

Your life is your part in this awesome Cosmic Dance. Your birth begins with your God Consciousness hid from you. If you have not discovered your unlimited potential in this life you will die, and your soul will go to the unseen state awaiting its chance for another birth. This is the gem of knowledge known as Reincarnation.

 

About Vaishnavism

 

Vaishnavism is also an ancient Hindu sect centering on the worship of Lord Vishnu and His incarnations, especially Krishna and Rama. Largely dualistic, profoundly devotional, it is rich in saints, temples and scriptures. Aum.

 

The worship of Vishnu, meaning "pervader, " dates back to Vedic times. The Pancharatra and Bhagavata sects were popular prior to 300 bce.

 

The Bhagavad Gita states, "On those who meditate on Me and worship with undivided heart, I confer attainment of what they have not, and preserve what they have." Aum Namo Narayanaya.

 

But There is no denial of incarnations and 10 avatars of Lord Vishnu..... But,,,,

 

Proof that Lord Shiva Was there in all yugas and was worshipped by all God and Goddess.There are many instances

 

He was worshipped by lord Rama and Ravana also as he was the only God and energy of good as well as evil,He was a Kind Father who granted all the wishes of the children's who pray to him he never see if his children's intentions but if they pray to him he grants them without thinking he never judges you by you mistakes or past things every time you go to him he you are a New person coming to him with your problems to be solved.

 

Because of his innocence's he is called Bhole nath,

 

But also Notice that when he was around on Earth he did not meet any avatars or none existed only in Heavens his stories with Brahma and Vishnu are mentioned.

 

Here are few incidents mentioned in Holy books about Lord Shiva documented and of his appearances

 

Lord shiva takes the shape of (Lingam) Controls the universe and all the Gods

 

 

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why the lingam is believed to be one of the most potent emblems in Hindu ideals.

 

It all started with Brahma and Vishnu, who were arguing over their relative supremacy. Their vain arguments were interrupted by a superluminous glow from a strange and blazing pillar, its shape reminiscent of the linga. Both of them sped towards this indescribable flaming light, which grew before their eyes into infinity, piercing the earth and extending through the heavens. Overwhelmed and terrified by the unfathomable vision, the two gods decided to seek the beginning and end of this burning immensity. Brahma taking the form of a swan flew upwards, and Vishnu dove down acquiring the shape of a boar. Both of the gods however, could not fathom the extent of this fiery column at either end, and returned exhausted and bewildered to the level they had started from. At that moment, the central part of the pillar split open and Shiva revealed himself in his full glory. Overawed, both Brahma and Vishnu bowed before him. Thunderous laughter, or the sound of AUM, issued from the pillar, filling the sky.

 

Brahma's head was Ripped off By lord shiva

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<!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->once, Brahma and Vishnu were discussing who was the supreme god and then when they came to know from Veda that Shiva is the supreme being, Brahma ignored and spoke bad about Shiva. He got angry and cut off Brahma's head that spoke ill of him, leaving Brahma with four heads instead of five.Shiva is the creator of Dance and of the first 16 rythemic syllabus ever uttered, the Sanskrit language was born. Dance of anger is known as Tandav Nritya, joy as Ananda nritya. Thus, Shiva is also known as Natraja, lord of dance and it is said that on 13th day of each bright lunar fortnight of Hindu calendar, after 6 in the evening, falls a sacred hour called Pradosha and if you worship this time than one gets powers of Universe. It is believed that all Gods gather to witness the dance of Natraja, Shiva.There are around 30 million Linga in temples in India, famous one formed of Ice at Amarnath, Somnath in Gujarat and it is said Shiva sleeps in all Lingas in Chaturmasya and so if one worships the Shivlinga this time, than it is very auspicious. Going for Pilgrimage to all 12 Jyotirlinga means one washes away the sins of last seven births and also reciting the mantras purifies the soul and can attain peacefulness

Lord Krishna's advice to Arjuna

 

 

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After hearing about the Pandav's exile, Krishna goes to visit them. He advises the Pandavs to prepare for war and tells Arjun to do penance to obtain divine weapons. Arjun does penance and eventually pleases Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva bestows him with the divine Pasupata weapon and advises him to obtain other weapons in Indralok. Rishi Duruvasa visits Hastinapur. In an attempt to humiliate the Pandavs, Duryodhan requests that the sage visit tha Pandavs as well. Rishi Duruvasa promises to do so

 

 

 

Lord shiva grants Draupadi her desired wish

 

 

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When Sage Vyasa visits the family, he explains to Draupadi that her unique position as the wife of five brothers results from a certain incident in her previous birth. She had in that lifetime prayed to Lord Shiva to grant her a husband with five desired qualities. Lord Shiva, pleased with her devotion, tells her that it is very difficult to get a husband with all five qualities that she desired. But she sticks to her ground and asks for the same. Then Lord Shiva grants her wish saying that she would get the same in her next birth. Hence she gets married to five brothers each who represents a given quality.

 

The Sad Truth

 

The Ancient brahims Abolished the Savism concept which was practised in India and that time India was in peak of its glory they created caste system according to their occupation and classified according to their jobs which they do in daily life created upper and lower caste and ruled them and the kings which was major draw back in Hindu society which created chance and opportunities from other cultures to easily enter India and showcase our drawback and spread new religion In India The Mother of all religions which Once taught the world the art of war,science ,medicine dance Martial arts, many More is now stands divided

"Mankind ought to be taught that religions are but the varied expressions of THE RELIGION, which is Oneness, so that each may choose the path that suits him best." - Swami Vivekananda)the saivism concept

 

Om Nama shivya

[bhaktajan]

This Shiva is God Stuff is Bogus.

 

Lord Shiva is the Brother of the Kumaras & Narada etc.

 

When Lord Brahma passes away --so will all pass away by merging back into MAhaVisnu's Breathing.

 

The Hiarchy of the Descendants of Lord Brahma Maha-pita-ma [Great Grand Father] of the Celestial "Demi-gods" is known.

 

Shiva is Brahma's Son.

 

Shiva & Brahma are Jiva-atmas.

Visnu is a 'plenary expansion' of God in the Material Worlds.

 

But don't let me dissuade you from pursuing your passion.

 

Your evident devotion will bring you to the service of Mahesh's other more-seasoned servants in due time.

 

Since Lord Shiva is a Vaishnava without equal then we must invoke his protection from maya & her illusory spells and her servants too.

 

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