An interesting article dravidian origin of Shiva

[Guest guest]

Prabhu's accusation that I'm riding on pro-Dravidian feelings made me search the net for more information about Dravidian origin of word Siva. I read the following in www.raceandhistory.com, obviously the writer was an anti-hindu and anti-brahmin. However, some of the points he mentioned seems to be logical.

Following are the justification the author puts forth to claim Shiva was a Dravidian pre-vedic god.

 

Quote

 

The Aryans who followed the `astika' Brahminist religions of Vedism and Vaishnavism (comprising the 6 orthodox schools) obliterated the Sudroid religion of Shaivism from most of North India by destroying countless Shaiva temples and racially exterminating Sudroids. Shaivism is related to native African religion as is evident from :

 

Shiva's Name Absent in Vedas - The name `Shiva' does not occur even once as a name of a god in the Vedas. Moreover, the phallus worshippers are disparagingly referred to as `shishna-devas' and as `Dasyus' in the Vedic texts. It is thus absurd to claim Shiva is a Vedic god. Only Brahmin historians who are experts at distorting history can put forth such ludicrous lunacies.

 

Dravidian Etymology of Shiva - The word `Shiva' is of Dravidian etymology, `civa' meaning `reddened' or `angry' in Tamil. There is no sensible etymology from Sanskrit, although wild fantasies have been set forth by the Brahmins and Vaishnavas, claiming it is derived from `si'. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

African Murungu - The East Africans worship a god called Murungu who is the exact counterpart of the Dravidian god Murugan. Both have phallic aspects [ Sud ].

 

Voodoo - Indeed, one finds a kind of Dravidian `voodoo' among the untouched Dravidians living in remote areas. The custom of piercing dolls that represent the victim are to be found amongsst Sudroids.

 

Black Lingas - The lingas in all of the Shiva temples are made of black stone, indicating that a Black god is being worshipped. Had Shiva been white, white marble lingas would have been constructed. It is only in the Tibetic Tantric tradition that Mahadeva is white.

 

Unquote

 

Whatever expressed above was not my view, but I'm curious about 2 points:

 

1.Why was the word Shiva skipped in Vedas?

2.The origin of the word Siva and Sambu seems to be from Tamil words Civa and Chembu (Both implying red color).

 

I'm interested in knowing counter arguments to prove the author was false in his claims.

[Guest guest]

So Shiva is a Black God as you said, what about Krishna ? Lord Krishna is also black. Krishna also means the "The Dark One". So what have you to say about this?.

[maadhav]

i cannot see how this kind of discussion help Hindus and Bharatiyas.

 

one should worship shiva or krishan or any deity - istadeva,

and not wast time in duscussing nonsense.

 

some have hidden motives behind what they do.

 

[Guest guest]

I have mentioned earlier that Krishna could be a Dravidian king. His capital may be south indian city of Madurai instead of Mathura. Also the lost city of Dwaraka could possibly be the submerged south indian city of Poombuhar.

 

You can neither prove this nor disprove this. It is all open to interpretation and speculation.

 

Madhav,

I don't have any hidden motives, being a Tamilian myself, I feel my native history before and during Vedic times is lost in the hindu scriptures, my quest is to identify the glorious past of our race and try to piece together the lost annals of history. I think everyone is entitled to know their ancestory and past. When you can discuss at length about you vedic past, why are we not entitled to find our's? It is unfair to brand me as having hidden motive against hindus and Bharatiyas.

 

In fact, sceintists and historians are more helpful in our quest that people like you, that is why I rely on them more than on people like you and your netas.

[Guest guest]

If Shiva belongs to South India and Vishnu North India , could you please explain following:

 

* Why Shivas abode Himalayas is in North India and not in Tamilnadu?

* How come Kashi another most important Shva's pilgrimage is in North India?

* How can you explain most famous Vishnu temple "Tirupati Tirumala' in south India?

* How come there is not much difference in looks of so called Dravidians and South Indians unless you want to claim that Vishnu put togather Aryans an Dravidians in a Mixer?

* How will you separate Shiva and Vishnu when they themselves do not want to separate...whenever Vishnu incarnates Shiva follows?

* If Shiva is dark so is Krshna, how do you explain that;

* Hanuman is Considered as Shiva incarnation?

* How come Shiva's wife Gauri is worshipped more in Gujarat and Bengal rather than Tamilnadu?

* What do say about Lord Ayappa incarnation?

* So do you consider Ravana as a Dravidian by you hypothesis of Vishnu vs Shiva aka Aryan vs Dravidian?

* I guess your blood must also be of unique color different from North Indian brutes?

*When are you planning to bring Shiva down from Himalaya to Tamil Nadu?

* I guess he seems to be prefering North India more than Tamilnadu as he stays in Himalayas, and he even brought Ganga in North India!

* When are you planning to shift Tirupati Balaji temple to North India?

* What are you going to do to all fair skinned so called Dravidians, are you going to send them to North India?

* When are you going to patent Dosas and Idlis as Dravidians creations which unfortunately all Indians love so much (poor idlis)?Are you going to charge royalty from Vaishnavas for eating them?

* What is synonym of Bhole baba in Dravidian culture?

* Even Shankaracharya being a Keralite didnot have problems with North Indian so called Aryans, he established 4 Dhams in four corners of India;

* Are you planning to build an artificial Himalayas with your superior Dravidian ingenuity, near Dravid land...by the way where exactly it is??? May be Karunanidhi Knows??by the way why he named his son Stalin?..He has no repsect for Great Dravid Culture??

 

[Guest guest]

>* Why Shivas abode Himalayas is in North India and not in Tamilnadu?

* How come Kashi another most important Shva's pilgrimage is in North India?<

 

Shiva as he is worshipped now is amalgamation of Vedic god Rudra, Tamil god civa and Tibetian god.

Aryans and Dravidians started to mingle with each other and shared each others beliefs by the time of Mahabaratha.

 

You answer my question:

 

1.Why is there no mention of word Shiva in Vedas?

2.Why is linga worship not mentioned in Vedas?

3.The etymology of word Shiva is easily explainable using Tamil word civa.However, there is no accepted sanskrit origin of this word. You can come with fantastic claim that shiva came from sanskrit word "si", but it will be discarded by any reputed linguistic scholar.

 

>* How can you explain most famous Vishnu temple "Tirupati Tirumala' in south India?<

 

When Aryans encountered native dravidian gods like Ayyanar, Murugan and tribal god tirumal, they equated them with Rudra, Kartikeya and Visnu.

Tirumala was considered a Shiva temple until Ramunuja successfully convinced the local king that it is Visnu temple. There is still lot of debate going on in the intellectual circles whether the main deity is Shiva or Amman or Muruga or Visnu.

 

Same applies for all your other questions.

[Guest guest]

You have not been able to answer any of my questions properly other than referring to pro-Dravidian sources. A caution, when for muslims and Xians you are just a Hindu (a stone worshipping pagan who should be converted by hook or crook). In any H and M riot, M will not spare you for being so called Dravidian hero. By the way some of my best friends are tamils (so called dravidians), and they don't really care if I am a brute aryan from north India.

 

Read this article:

 

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BBC proves Vivekananda right after a century!

by S Gurumurthy

"Do not believe such silly things as there was a race of mankind in South India called Dravidians differing widely from another race in northern India called the Aryans. This is entirely unfounded". This is not from a saffron scholar of the 21st century. But Swami Vivekananda said it before an audience in the then Madras city as the 19th century was drawing to a close.

 

Not knowing where the bright Aryans came from, "off late, there was an attempt made to prove", he laughed and said, "Aryans lived on the Swiss lakes". Yet the theory trotted out by F Max Mueller in 1848 tracing the history of Hinduism to the invasion of indigenous people by Aryans around 1500 BC has obsessed India since then.

 

It is now well known that the scholarly work of Max Mueller, once considered independent, was bought by the East India Company, and was thus a colonial view. Even as Swami Vivekananda dismissed Max Mueller's theory as silly, he lauded Mueller's work on Indian scriptures as next only to that of Shankaracharya.

 

Max Mueller's theory dominated the Indian academic and intellectual debate and politics of the 20th century and wrought havoc in the national psyche since then. It divided and disturbed the national mind; even threatened to sever southern India from the rest. Any dissent towards this view is even now castigated and isolated, as a sort of intellectual terrorism holds sway. But sustained and strenuous work by dedicated scholars has decimated this silly theory over the last hundred years.

 

Yet, billions of pages of instruction in schools and colleges have, since Max Mueller expounded this view, enduringly poisoned and damaged the Indian psyche. And here comes a confession from a source linked to the very perpetrators of this intellectual crime, the ex-colonisers, that the theory, which Swami Vivekananda dismissed as silly, seems silly after all!

 

Weeks back the BBC website came out with the startling disclosure that "there is now ample evidence to show that Max Mueller and those who followed him were wrong". Answering, "why the theory is no longer accepted", the BBC says, "the Aryan invasion theory was based on archaeological, linguistic and ethnological evidence and later research has either discredited this evidence or provided new evidence that combined with the earlier evidence makes other explanations likely".

 

More important, the BBC admits that "modern historians of the area no longer believe that such invasions had such great influence on Indian history". Even more important, it says, "it is generally accepted that the Indian history shows a continuity of progress from the earliest times to today". More, "the changes brought to India by other cultures" are no longer thought to be a major ingredient of the development of Hinduism.

 

The confession is an honest one. For the BBC does not only agree with Swami Vivekananda, it also points to the 'dangers' of the theory. It says that the theory 'denies the Indian origin of India's predominant culture'; "gives credit for the Indian culture to the invaders from elsewhere". It "teaches that the most revered Hindu scriptures are not actually Indian" and "devalues India's culture by portraying it as less ancient than it actually is".

 

It goes further and says that the 'theory was not just wrong', but 'included unacceptably racist ideas'. It suggested or asserted that Indian culture was not a culture in its own right but a synthesis of elements from other cultures; that Hinduism was not authentically Indian in origin, but the result of cultural imperialism; that Indian culture was static and only changed under outside influence; that the Dravidians were a nobody and got their faith from the Aryan invaders; that the indigenous people could acquire new ideas only from invaders or other races; that race was a biological, not a social, concept and thus rationalised ranking people in a hierarchy and the caste system; that the north Indian people descended from invaders of Europe, and so socially were closer to the British, thus rationalising colonialist presence; that the British were reforming India like the Aryans did thousands of years ago, thus justifying the role and the status of the Raj. Finally it says, "it downgraded the intellectual status of India and its people by giving falsely a later date to the elements of Indian science and culture". Believe it?

 

This confession of wrong done to India and high praise for India's endogamous antiquity from an unlikely source approves of not just what Swami Vivekananda said over a century ago, but validates the 'saffron' view. This endangers the 'secular' scholarship whose bread and butter is now under threat. How will they continue to assert that India is more a khichadi than a continuity of undated antiquity?

 

How will they go on asserting that there is nothing Indian about India; that there was never anything called India at all; that there is today an India thanks to invaders like Aryans, Turks, Moghuls or the British; and thanks again to British that we are a nation....

 

Yes, the secular scholarship is in deep trouble. But they have a solid reason to feel assured that it will take decades for this truth to overcome the billions of pages of falsehood printed and circulated so far. For the grains of truth to emerge from this mountain of falsehood will take a life's time.

 

http://www.newindpress.com/column/News.asp?Topic=-97&Title=S%2EGurumurthy&ID=IE620051028230551&nDate=&Sub=&Cat=&

[Guest guest]

 

Tirumala was considered a Shiva temple until Ramunuja successfully convinced the local king that it is Visnu temple. There is still lot of debate going on in the intellectual circles whether the main deity is Shiva or Amman or Muruga or Visnu.

 

 

You claim Tirumala to be a Shiva temple, can you please give us the relevant religious sources to substantiate your claim.

 

All the Alvars has sung mangalasasanams on Tirupathi Balaji. Has any of the 63 saiva nayanmars done so on the Lord of the 7 Hills ?

 

Hari Om Tat Sat

 

YRD

 

 

[Guest guest]

I've answered all your questions, but am waiting for your reply for my doubts. Would appreciate an unbiased, healthy and open discussion without any emotional overtones.

[Guest guest]

>when for muslims and Xians you are just a Hindu (a stone worshipping pagan who should be converted by hook or crook). In any H and M riot, M will not spare you for being so called Dravidian hero. By the way some of my best friends are tamils (so called dravidians), and they don't really care if I am a brute aryan from north India.<

 

Dravidian feelings are beyond religion. All Tamils are united in their acceptance of Thirukural irrespective of their religion becuase of the fact that Thirukural is purely a collection of moral codes of conduct. It doesn't talk about warfare between various gods or demi-gods, nor does it proclaim one god as superior over the other,nor is it collection of fairy tales.

In fact,it doesn't even mention any names of gods, so Christians can think of Thirukural as praising Christ, Muslims are free to think of Thirukural as praising Allah.

 

Abdul Kalam, president of India is a great advocate of Thirukural and other Tamil works of art, which proves our scripture transcent identity of religion.

 

Yesterday, a notorious pro-Tamil extremist was arrested in Tamil Nadu, he was a muslim. I do not support extremism, but the reason why I mention this is to show fellow north indians that unlike Sanskrit, Tamil is beyond religion.

 

I never mentioned Aryans as brutes, you are simply trying to put that word into my mouth.

[Prabhu]

Unfortunately for Dravidians, they are condemned to live with brute Aryans from North India. It seems that even Shiva wanted this, and why not, how could He live away from Vishnu.

 

Really can't do much in uniting you with your long lost brothers in Africa. Unless of course you want to invite all of them in Tamilnadu.

 

Surprisingly your high moral code doesn't mean much to Muslim invaders who were as brutal to Dravidians in destroying their culture in Vijayanagaram and sundry southern kingdoms. Surprise surprise inspite of high Thirukkul moral code some of the most corrupt politicians come from your Dravidland.....amma et al.

 

You have to show me one instance of Aryan brutality against so called Dravidians except the theory propagated by Europeans.

 

Really, Bin Laden's bombs doesn't differentiates between high moralistic Dravidians and low brute Aryans. WTC, Delhi Bombs and others are littered with Dravidian sacrifices.

 

May be you can request Shiva to vanquish brute Aryans from North India and unite you with your long lost brother in Africa.

 

Good Luck.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Shiv Shambho

 

 

[Guest guest]

I have nothing personal against north Indians, in fact, I never mentioned anyone as brutes in any of my mails.

I'm just interested in knowing the history as it really is.

Just because it sounds bitter and is not in tune with modern perceptions, I can't discard the truth. Truth is always truth, it can't be modified to suit our modern philosophies, political situation or lifestyles.

 

I'm proud to call myself a hindu and an Indian. But that doesn't cause any hindrance to my affinity to Tamil or my Dravidian roots.

 

In fact, as a Brahmin, I know that what I'm doing is not going to favour my community at all, which have been brutally oppressing native culture for several centuries (probably milleniums), but still wasn't it Abraham Lincoln who raised voice for freedom of African slaves in America?

 

I again request you not to become emotional, instead we'll search the vedas and other hindu philosophies and try to find what kind of lifestyle was prevalent in ancient India.

I'll also share some valuable information about our culture, temples and philosophies, which are by no means inferior to Aryan contribution to hinduism.

[ranga]

Hi,

 

Your arguments meet no useful purpose other than discrimination by a foolish race theory.For all you have said,what you now want to say? Even if all of your claims are true,what you expect us now to do? Just fight with each and other and die? No never.

 

Shiva and Vishnu are great Supreme powers which demons and fakes cannot even comprehend and appreciate.

 

Please dont put yourself on the side of great demons Hiranya,Ravana who always had a strange illusionary way to prove that 'They' only are great.

 

Do some useful spritual discussion and practice rather than barking at Vishnu or Shiva's origin.

[Guest guest]

"Hi,

 

Your arguments meet no useful purpose other than discrimination by a foolish race theory.For all you have said,what you now want to say? Even if all of your claims are true,what you expect us now to do? Just fight with each and other and die? No never.

 

Shiva and Vishnu are great Supreme powers which demons and fakes cannot even comprehend and appreciate.

 

Please dont put yourself on the side of great demons Hiranya,Ravana who always had a strange illusionary way to prove that 'They' only are great.

 

Do some useful spritual discussion and practice rather than barking at Vishnu or Shiva's origin. "

 

 

In any case, Shivite, it is better to be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. By continually perpetuating a theory that is based solely on circumstantial evidence, in a place that is unreceptive of your ludicrous preachings, you prove that you are a fool.

 

In any case, to address the topic, I will say this: God has many names, he is known throughout the world by many names, and few have actually truly come to the conclusion that all those names are One. Most of them all treat their God as different from another God, which is illogical. Yet you seem to act as if you believe this very thing. You consider yourself and Shaivites superior, along with Shiva being superior to Vishnu and other Vedic gods, and if you may not CONSCIOUSLY acknowledge this, you subconsciously believe this and it shows through your actions.

 

Shiva, Ganpati, Vishnu, etc. have MILLIONS of names all associated with each one. Yet none of those names or almost none are mentioned in the Vedas. They are all considered to be the Supreme, and foolish people fight and argue over whether they are right or wrong. But they fail to realize that all of these are God, and that God is supreme.

 

 

[Guest guest]

My original intention was to post a link to website that has great details about temples in Tamil Nadu. But Prabhu had pulled me into Aryan-Dravidian debate by posting questions like Shiva's origin etc.

 

Anyway, my belief in god is different from my search of my dravidian roots. I'll continue to search for sources of information for knowing more about my Dravidian culture and religion. Be it from religious sources like forums like these or scientific sources like findings of archeological and linguistic research.

But I'll never ever dream of demeaning faith of other people.

 

All I'm doing is posting my doubts about the origin of our religion and culture and sharing information and great philosophies of Dravidian origin. These are also essentially part of hinduism.

 

 

>I will say this: God has many names, he is known throughout the world by many names, and few have actually truly come to the conclusion that all those names are One. Most of them all treat their God as different from another God, which is illogical. Yet you seem to act as if you believe this very thing. You consider yourself and Shaivites superior, along with Shiva being superior to Vishnu and other Vedic gods, and if you may not CONSCIOUSLY acknowledge this, you subconsciously believe this and it shows through your actions. <

 

I never said anything like what you have accused. Show me one instance where I've proclaimed one name is superior to another. Show me one instance where I've claimed my faith is superior than yours?

 

I've no problem using names like Visnu, Shiva, Jesus or Allah to address the ultimate god and I'll never proclaim superiority of one belief over the other.

 

Likewise, there are several wonderful hinduism philosophies of Dravidian origin that spread message of love and tolerance. I'm only sharing my knowledge of such philosophies. I noticed that for long, Dravidian philosophies have been unfortunately been put down brutally and any attempt to show case them to the world is unjustly put down by people like you.

 

I'm begining to see a sinister design by people like you.

[ranga]

Everytime your real face and attitude comes up,I see you use words such as my real intention,acutally I never meant that etc..

 

But I should not blame you the real self and motive is popping up everytime very badly.

 

Please be constructive to all or atleast neutral but never be destructive.

 

If all your arguments prove to pull down the soul from Shiva bhakthi or Vishnu bhakthi,then we verily become the bad affecter of its progress.

 

Thats why sastras say "mownam parama auwshadham".Silence is the prayer,the strenght...Speak less and do more.

 

Dont identify yourself with socio-economic issues and loose the great benefit of glorifying Shiva or Vishnu.

 

Dravidans,Aryans & many more are the tools to play for the politicans.They just mislead the mass for their own vested interests.Hence never believe on those things and spoil yourself and misguide others.

 

Noone has brutally brought down the so called Dravidian culture or so.We cannot conceal the sun by closing our eyes.The real light will come no matter who suppress it.The genuine and truth never fails.

 

Please understand we are all souls and nothing more to this material world.

[Guest guest]

Why Shivas abode Himalayas is in North India and not in Tamilnadu?

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if dravidians had all of india as siva's abode, it would not be far fetched to think that pockets of worship stayed in the himalaya, since the himalaya is the hardest part of n. india to conquer prosperously. they were able to stay and thrive and differ from their southern counterparts.

 

 

How come Kashi another most important Shva's pilgrimage is in North India?

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just cuz siva is said to be dravidian/south indian doesnt mean there will be no places of worship that are important in north india.

 

 

How can you explain most famous Vishnu temple "Tirupati Tirumala' in south India

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vaishnavism spread into south india during the first 500-600 years after Christ. Thats what the Vaishnav avatars (Parasurama, Vamana, Narasimha) represent. Besides that, i do remember reading that article that someone was talking about about Tirupathi being a Siva temple originally. Over time, as the Vaisnavs grew in influence, they came to get control of the temple.

 

 

How come there is not much difference in looks of so called Dravidians and South Indians unless you want to claim that Vishnu put togather Aryans an Dravidians in a Mixer?

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i dont understand what this question means?

 

 

How will you separate Shiva and Vishnu when they themselves do not want to separate...whenever Vishnu incarnates Shiva follows?

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As modern Hinduism is based heavily on Vedanta and Upanishads, the belief is that Siva and Vishnu are only aspects of one God. They cannot be seperated. Giving a differnce of origin is not seperation

 

 

If Shiva is dark so is Krshna, how do you explain that

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Doesnt mean all dark people are Shaivite. thats just absurd. East Indians, particularly Bengalis are very dark as well. So are many Gujnurathis and other north indians. Cant base it on skin color.

 

 

Hanuman is Considered as Shiva incarnation

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Hanuman is considered Siva's incarnation in a Vaishnav story. Hanuman is known to be of SOuth Indian origin, livig in a south indian kingdom. South INdians before Vaishnavism, was moslty Shaivite. IT can easily be that Hanuman was a Shaivite, who happened to give great help to the man revered by Vaishnavs (Rama). Therefore, he was given the status of being a great person, in turn an incarnation - of who? of who he worhsips - an incarnation of siva

 

How come Shiva's wife Gauri is worshipped more in Gujarat and Bengal rather than Tamilnadu?

-------

 

cant answer that, i dont know

 

 

What do say about Lord Ayappa incarnation

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ayappan is hariharaputra (son of siva and vishnu). this means he is a follower of both religions and helped unite the religions against a common cause. thats what makes him the son of both sects.

 

 

So do you consider Ravana as a Dravidian by you hypothesis of Vishnu vs Shiva aka Aryan vs Dravidian?

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Ravana probably was dravidian. but i dont base this on some vishnu vs. siva reason. Its based on the fact that he was from the extreme south.

 

 

I guess your blood must also be of unique color different from North Indian brutes

-------------

 

Yes, my blood is of the rainbow color actually. Its liek a chameleon, it changes colors whenever someone new sees it. what kind of question is this?

 

 

When are you planning to bring Shiva down from Himalaya to Tamil Nadu

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Siva is already in Tamil Nadu, why does anyone have to bring him down>

 

 

I guess he seems to be prefering North India more than Tamilnadu as he stays in Himalayas, and he even brought Ganga in North India!

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He prefers the world. He doesnt live in a mountain in the himalaya or in a river in north india. That is a metaphor for the amount of worship and sanctity given to those areas. There are even theories that Ganga is a Shiva associated river because of the move to the gangetic plain of Indus Valley people (Dravidians who worship Siva). but that is not completely proven yet

 

 

When are you planning to shift Tirupati Balaji temple to North India

----------------

 

When you shift Ramjanmaboomi to Mecca. In other words, never

 

 

What are you going to do to all fair skinned so called Dravidians, are you going to send them to North India

-=----------------------------

 

Nowadays, its unfair and wrong to say who is dravidian or aryan based on skin color, family history or language. One must know your fmaily history going back thousnads of years. No one knows that. I am malayali, but there is a heavy belief in my family that we were once gujurathi. Our customs are a mix of guju customs as well as malu customs. Its not fair to look at someone and say he is dravidian or he is aryan. How do you know that his origin was dravidian originally 3000 years ago? how can you know? genetics maybe? but does genetics even help?

 

 

When are you going to patent Dosas and Idlis as Dravidians creations which unfortunately all Indians love so much (poor idlis)?Are you going to charge royalty from Vaishnavas for eating them

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Do we charge royalty to non Indians when they eat INdian food? of corse not. thats absurd, food is food. who cares

 

 

What is synonym of Bhole baba in Dravidian culture

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i dont know what that is

 

 

Even Shankaracharya being a Keralite didnot have problems with North Indian so called Aryans, he established 4 Dhams in four corners of India

=--------

 

thats correct. so what. what does that have to do with this topic?

 

 

Are you planning to build an artificial Himalayas with your superior Dravidian ingenuity, near Dravid land...by the way where exactly it is??? May be Karunanidhi Knows??by the way why he named his son Stalin?..He has no repsect for Great Dravid Culture??

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i dont know who all those people are, but either way its a stupid question

 

 

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at the end of the day, the language differnece is still markedly different. in all reality, genetics points to a genetic change sometime around 4500 BC. Not 1500 BC. This was probably the so called "aryans" I dont think the aryan invasion brought Hinduism of Indian culture. Indian culture and Hinduism is a blend of many cultural beliefs all indigenous to INDIA. It is still Indian, but of different strands of thought. Over time, the Shaivism became worshipped mainly in South India and some in the north. Vaishnavism, a decendant of solar (surya) worship {prbably also a desert thing}, originated in the north and spread to the south after the first couple centuries after Christ.

 

So what if this is what ahppened? what does this mean>? does this change the truth of life? the satyam of brahman? no

 

does this change my relationship to kerala or india or to other felllow Indians - NO.

 

Does this change any societal practices - no!

 

what does it mean if northerners are aryan. and south indians dravidian? please answer me this.

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada on Lord Shiva

New York, December 20, 1966

 

Now Lord Chaitanya, in the Chaitanya Charitamrita, says, "I have mentioned some of the pastime incarnations. Now, Sanatana, you just hear from Me about the incarnations of the material qualities." There are three qualities in the material world: goodness, passion and ignorance. So each quality is controlled by the Supreme Lord Himself by His expansions as different incarnations. Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva -- the three incarnations of material qualities. Now from these three qualities, or material modes of nature, the heads are Brahma, the first living creature, Vishnu, God Himself and Lord Shiva. Shiva's position is between Brahma and Vishnu. Vishnu is God, and Brahma is a living entity. This is the gradation. Living entities, they are also parts and parcels of God. Siva is also part and parcel of God. Vishnu is also part and parcel of God. But there are degrees of power. Krishna is cent percent, Vishnu is ninety-four percent, Siva is eighty-four percent, and we living entities, we are seventy-eight percent. So the three incarnations have nothing to do with these material modes of nature. Just like a person in charge of the criminal department or jail department should not be thought of as one of the prisoners. Similarly, Lord Shiva is in charge of the modes of ignorance, but he is not ignorant. He is the most enlightened devotee of Lord. He has got a disciplic succession, which is called Vishnu Swami succession branch. There are four succession branches of great devotees of the Lord: one from Brahma, one from Shiva, one from Lakshmi and one from the Kumaras. So Lord Shiva, although he is in charge of the department of the modes of ignorance, is not ignorant. You should not make that mistake. Similarly, Brahma is also in charge of the department of passion, concerning creative initiation. Whatever we are creating, it's incentive is from Brahma, via the mode of passion. And ignorance, means to simply destroy. And Vishnu, He has taken the charge of maintenance, because without God nobody can maintain us. "One eternal personality maintains all other plural eternities." We are also eternities, but we are maintained by Vishnu. Even Brahma is maintained by Vishnu and Shiva is also maintained by Vishnu. So these are the three qualitative incarnations: Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.

 

[Guest guest]

Dont you guys really believe in god or what?u guys fight worse than Aethists,how can god be just in Himalayas or Tamilnadu or wherever,isnt god supposed to be everywhere?

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

"Dont you guys really believe in god or what?"

 

Yes I do.

 

"how can god be just in Himalayas or Tamilnadu or wherever,isnt god supposed to be everywhere?"

 

Yes, He is everywhere.

 

Your aspiring servant,

******

[Guest guest]

(But there are degrees of power. Krishna is cent percent, Vishnu is ninety-four percent, Siva is eighty-four percent, ---)

 

 

 

Must have been a genius mathematician, to have calculated with such precision, dividing infinity by zero.

 

 

Trulye genius

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

"Must have been a genius mathematician, to have calculated with such precision, dividing infinity by zero."

 

Srila Jiva Goswami was a great scholar and by analysing all the scriptures, he listed the attributes of all the deities. Of course, God is infinite, but in order to give us an idea he analogises it to mathematics. And it is so. Jiva Goswami was quite the genius - because he was empowered by Krishna.

 

Your aspiring servant,

******

[clinstan]

People discovered the lost city of dwaraka underwater.

Nd shiva is dravidian god, everyone knows that.

The problem in india is the caste system, when the aryans got mixed, thn came the caste system like the brahmins.

They were the vedic priests. So the higher the caste u r, lesser the dravidian u r.

It would be better for the dravidians if they kick the brahmins kut their dravidian temples.

Ive been to india before, nd the jigher caste people dont respect the lower caste.

The dravidians must take their gods bck frm the vedic stuff

 

By clinstan, switzerland

[clinstan]

Its mostly in the north becus, at that time when they were invaded by the vedic aryans, the dravidians lived in the north nd it after that they came south.

By clinsta, switzerland

[clinstan]

Exactly, there are statues of ravana in thailand eventhough he is frm sri lanka.

Its the samething shiva in himalayas