SRI AUROBINDO

[barney]

Hymn to Durga

 

“O Mother Durga!

Rider on the lion!

Giver of all strength!

Mother, Beloved of Siva!

We, born from Thy parts of Power,

We the youth of India, are seated here in Thy Temple

Listen, O Mother, descend upon earth!

Make Thyself manifest in this land of India.

 

O Mother Durga!

From age to age, in life after life,

We come down into the human body,

To do Thy work and return to the Home of Delight.

Now too we are born, dedicated to Thy work.

Listen, O Mother, descend upon Earth,

Come to our help!

 

O Mother Durga!

Rider on the lion!

Trident in hand!

Thy body of beauty armour-clad!

Mother, O Giver of victory!

India awaits Thee,

Eager to see the gracious form of Thine.

Listen, O Mother, descend upon earth,

Make Thyself manifest in this land of India.

 

O Mother Durga!

Giver of force and love and knowledge,

Terrible art thou in Thy own self of might,

Mother beautiful and fierce.

In the battle of life, in India's battle,

We are warriors commissioned by Thee;

O Mother!

Give to our heart and mind a titan's strength, a titan's energy,

To our soul and intelligence a God's character and knowledge.

 

O Mother Durga!

India, world's noblest race, lay whelmed in darkness.

Mother, Thou risest on the eastern horizon,

The dawn comes with the glow of Thy divine limbs scattering the darkness.

Spread Thy light, Mother, destroy the darkness.

 

O Mother Durga!

We are Thy children,

Through Thy grace, By Thy influence

May we become fit for the great work, for the great Ideal.

Mother, destroy our smallness, our selfishness, our fear.

 

O Mother Durga!

Thou art Kali,

Naked, garlanded with human heads,

Sword in hand, thou slayest the Asura.

Goddess, do thou slay with Thy pitiless cry the enemies who dwell within us,

May none remain alive there, not one.

May we become pure and spotless,

This is our prayer.

O Mother, make Thyself manifest.

 

O Mother Durga!

India lies now in selfishness and fearfulness and littleness.

Make us great, make our efforts great, our hearts vast,

Make us true to our resolve.

May we no longer desire the small, void of energy,

Given to laziness, stricken with fear.

 

O Mother Durga!

Extend wide the power of Yoga.

We are Thy Aryan children,

Develop in us again

The lost teaching,

Character,

Strength of intelligence,

Faith and devotion,

Force of austerity,

Power of chastity and true knowledge,

Bestow all that upon the world.

To help mankind,

Appear, O Mother of the world, dispel all ills.

 

O Mother Durga!

Slay the enemy within, then root out all obstacles outside.

May the noble heroic mighty Indian race,

Supreme in love and unity,

Truth and strength,

Arts and letters,

Force and knowledge

Ever dwell in its holy woodlands,

Its fertile fields under its sky-scraping hills,

Along the banks of its pure-streaming rivers.

This is our prayer at the feet of the Mother.

Make Thyself manifest.

 

O Mother Durga!

Enter our bodies in Thy Yogic strength.

We shall become Thy instruments,

Thy sword slaying all evil,

Thy lamp dispelling all ignorance.

Fulfil this yearning of Thy young children,

O Mother!

Be the master and drive the instrument,

Wield Thy sword and slay the evil,

Hold up the lamp and spread the light of knowledge.

Make Thyself manifest.

 

O Mother Durga!

When we possess thee,

We shall no longer cast thee away;

We shall bind thee to us with the tie of love and devotion.

Come, O Mother,

Manifest in our mind and life and body.

 

Come, O Revealer of the hero-path!

We shall no longer cast Thee away.

May our entire life become a ceaseless worship of the Mother,

All our acts a continuous service to the Mother,

Full of love, full of energy.

This is our prayer,

Mother, descend upon earth,

Make Thyself manifest in this land of India.”

 

Hymn to Durga

by Sri Aurobindo

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the hymn. Sri Aurobindo was a great sage of modern times and one of the greatest commentators on the Vedas and Vedantic scriptures.

 

[Guest guest]

Great Post!

 

What most people donot know about India's freedom struggle is the role played by Spiritual Yogis.

 

All credit and accolades for India's freedom movement has been taken or shall I say usurped by the politicians.

 

Swami Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindo, Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa, and many other yogis have played indirect role in India's freedom struggle by working silently through their spiritual power. They have by their efforts revived a dormant and downtrodden Hindu society during 18th and 19th century, which was a dark age for Indian society.

 

Probably, Swami Vivekananda inspired a whole generation of youth and freedom fighters and Sri Auribindo was also inspired by Swamiji. When he was in jail Swamiji went to see him.

 

Sri Auribindo and Swami Vivekananda were higly educated and brilliant scholars in western education. Through their immaculate discretionary power they were able to compare 1000s of years old Indian spirituality with that of western philosophy and prove the infinite existence of Hindu/Vedic truth.

 

They saw the rise of India and in fact SriAuribindo even saw in India a living Goddess who was about to rise in due course after a period of darkness during colonial period.

 

What most Indians forget that India is a country of Yogis and Sages. India survives because of its ability to produce great yogis again and again whenever there is a dire need in the society.

 

As SrKrishna said to Arjuna, "whenever and wherever there is decline in dharma o Arjuna, I descend myself in age after age".

 

Humble obeisance to all great Yogis of India!

 

Links to complete works of Sri Aurobindo and Swami Vivekananda:

http://www.miraura.org/links/text.html

http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info

 

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada on Aurobindo

 

Rather than learn from Aurobindo, we learn from Krishna's direct words. Aurobindo does not know better than Krsna. So one association is sufficient. There is no need of going this Aurobindo. Why should we waste our time? We have got sufficient education in Krsna consciousness. First of all let us finish these hundred books of four hundred pages. Then we shall see what Aurobindo writes. We don't think anyone can speak better than Krsna. That is admitted.

 

Aurobindo and Vivekananda started talking something in the Western world hundred years ago. But not a single man became Krsna devotee.

 

These Aurobindos or Vivekanandas and Gandhis, they have spoiled Hindu culture. They have spoiled Vedic culture. Hodgepodge writing, hodgepodge speaking, dry speaking and speculation has choked up the progress of Vedic civilization. Now here is some hope. People are now taking to Krishna Consciousness. Is there anything wrong in questioning "Why shall I go to Aurobindo?"

 

I have got better instruction than Aurobindo. Why shall I go to Aurobindo, waste my time? People don't know anything. Nobody has become a devotee of Krsna in reading Aurobindo's literature. And here, as soon as they saw our literature, immediately police officer said, "Oh, you are so high." Immediately. Where is the record, the professors and universities eager to purchase Aurobindo's book and Vivekananda's books? There is no record. But here they are eager "All sixty books, please, sir.All twelve books, please, sir."

 

Their humanitarianism is indicative of their false pride. This has been taught. In the Christianity they have taught like that, giving medicine, open hospital. That is Christianity. We are giving eternal medicine - never take birth again - that is real medicine.

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada on Aurobindo

[Rather than learn from Aurobindo, we learn from Krishna's direct words. Aurobindo does not know better than Krsna. So one association is sufficient. There is no need of going this Aurobindo. Why should we waste our time? We have got sufficient education in Krsna consciousness. First of all let us finish these hundred books of four hundred pages. Then we shall see what Aurobindo writes. We don't think anyone can speak better than Krsna. That is admitted................]

 

My dear unnamed guest!

 

Hare Krishna,

 

Why are you so agitated? Remember Kirshna exists in everyone.

 

What does SriKrishna says in Bhagavad Gita "..whichever God/Demi-Gd you will follow , you will come to me.."

 

Remember majority of Indians are from Smarth path who are followers of both Vishnu and Shiva. I am not here to advocate that you should follow this path or that path. At the same time one cannot negate the spiritual contribution of so many yogis which this vedic land , India, produces.

 

You cannot stifle anyone from following any path so long it doesn't involve harming others.

 

Most of this yogis practised universal 'vedantic' philosophy which encompasses whole universe. Why you want to present SriKrishna as a jealous God, that is not vedic tradition (may be in some other religions)? SriKrishna is omnipresent, omniscient, universal, extreme benevolent, magnanimous and supremely loving.

 

Remember biggest path of all path is the path of humanity and path of dharmic non-violence practiced by SriKrsihna. Vedic followers are not fanatics and are followers of Dharam. But that doesn't mean that they are coward. SriKirshna grace is for everyone. Remember Srila Prabhu came to west to propogate HareKrishna. But still he didn't believe in in conversion because vedic followers are not fanatic.

 

I am not recommending anypath, just remembering the glorious vedic tradition of sacred land of vedas, INDIA.

 

Jai Shri Krishna

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada on Bhagavad-gita

 

Anything which is accepted by the leading persons, is accepted by ordinary persons (BG 3.21). Whatever leading people do, people in general follow. If the leading person says, "It is nice. It is all right," the others also accept it. So by the grace of God, Krsna, famous people are leaders. Thousands of young men follow them. They like them. So if the famous give the populus something nice, the face of the world will change. So our, Krsna consciousness movement is not a manufactured new thing. It is from a historical point of view at least five thousand years old. Because Krsna consciousness movement means Bhagavad-gita as it is. Of course, it is supposed to be an Indian religious book, but it is not like that. It is not Indian or Hinduism. It is for all the people of the world. Not only for the human being, but also non-human beings, because in the Bhagavad-gita there is a verse. Krsna says, "I am father of all species, all forms of life." The living entities, they are in different forms. Just like we are sitting here, so many ladies, gentlemen, boys. We have got different forms. Similarly, Europeans have got different color, and Indians have got different colour. So this whole world is full of varieties. So Krsna says, "All the varieties of life, it doesn't matter. I am their father" [bg. 14.4]. So Krsna claims all living entities as His sons. But we may say that "Krsna is Indian,Krsna is Hindu," or "Krsna is something else." But no. Krsna is actually the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So this Krsna consciousness movement was started by Krsna Himself. In the Ninth Chapter, last verse, it is said, Krsna says, that "You always think of Me. [bg. 18.65].Let your mind be always engaged in Me, Krsna.Just become My devotee.If you want to worship, just worship Me. [bg. 18.65]If you want to offer obeisances, you just offer Me. And if you do like this, then without any doubt you'll come to Me." So this is a very simple method. Always thinking of Krsna. There is no loss, but the gain is very great. Suppose if I chant Hare Krsna. Materially I do not commit any offense or undergo any loss, but if there is any gain, why not try it? There is no expenditure. Everything has got some expenditure. So this mantra, Krsna is not to be sold. Chant Hare Krsna, everyone. Dance in ecstasy. It is very nice thing. So my request is that the intelligentsia try to understand this Krsna consciousness philosophy with all reason and arguments. It will not be accepted blindly. The author of Chaitanya-charitamrta says, "Just put into your judgement the mercy of Lord Caitanya.And if you scrutinizingly judge over it, you'll find it is sublime." So we are putting this Krsna consciousness movement not as a force, but to the judgement of the people. Let them judge. It is not a sectarian movement. Not any religious movement. It is a science. So we put this philosophy to your judgement, and you judge it scrutinizingly with all your intellect, and you'll find it sublime. And if you find it sublime, then why not put it to the world? You are also anxious to bring some peace in the world. I have read statements. You are anxious also. Everyone, every saintly person, should be anxious to bring peace in the world. But we must know the process. According to Bhagavad-gita, the idea of peace is as Krsna says that people can be peaceful by knowing three things. If he perfectly understands only three things, then he'll become peaceful. "All the sacrifices, austerities, penances, whatever people are undertaking for perfection, the enjoyer of such activities" Krsna says "I am." [bg. 5.29] Just like musician's activities. This is also a kind of austerity. The artistic songs have become popular because that artists have undergone some austerities. They have come to that perfection. That requires penance and austerities. Or any scientific discovery, that requires austerities. So every nice thing presented in the world requires austerity. Very devout, painstaking effort is what it takes to become successful. That is called sacrifice. So Krsna says, "The result of the austerity, it's enjoyer am I." He is claiming. "The result of your austerity should come to Me." Then you'll be satisfied. People are claiming, "This is my England," and "This is my India,This is my Germany,This is my China." No. Everything belongs to God, Krsna. Not only on this planet. We have divided this planet in so many states. Actually this planet was not divided. From the history of Mahabharata we understand. This planet, there was only one king, one emperor, in India, Hastinapur. Even up to five thousand years ago, there was only one king, Maharaja Pariksit, one flag. And he came out for touring over his kingdom, and he found somebody near Sindh, a black man killing a cow. And he immediately arrested him: "Oh, in my kingdom you are killing a cow?" So actually the whole planet was under one flag, one sovereignty. Gradually it has become small, small, small, small, small. Just like very recently, India became divided, Pakistan and Hindustan. Actually India was one, but we see now it is Pakistan. And some day another "stan" will be divided. So this is going on. So sarva-loka, in all planets, all the planets, actually that is God's place. Nobody's place. We come here empty-handed; we go empty-handed. How we can claim? Suppose you have given me this place to stay. I stay for one week, and if I claim, "Oh, this is my room," is that a very nice thing? There will immediately be some disagreement, some trouble. But you have kindly spared this room. I am living here. I can comfortably live and enjoy. When I go, there is no trouble. Similarly, we come here in the kingdom of God empty-handed and we go empty-handed. Why do we emphasise that "This is my property, this is my country, this is my world, this is my planet"? Why do we claim like that? Is it not insanity? Wherefrom do these claims come? So Krsna says that "I am the Supreme Lord of every place." And He is the real friend of every living entity. As a friend, He is sitting within your heart [bg. 18.61]. He's such a nice friend. In this material world we make friendships. Then it breaks. Or the friend lives somewhere, and I live somewhere else. But Krishna's so nice a friend, that He's living within, with me and within my heart. He is so nice a friend. He's not only a selective friend. No. Even the most insignificant creature, he is living there as Paramatma (Supersoul). So if these three things are understood clearly, then one becomes peaceful. This is the peace formula. So everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita and Vedic literature. Simply one has to learn. Just like in arithmetic. There is much mathematical calculation, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division and this or that, fraction. One has to learn it all. So Bhagavad-gita is such a nice book and it is accepted. Not that because we are preaching Krsna consciousness, we are advocating for India. It is accepted by scholarly section, religious section, not only in India, but all over the world. Perhaps you know. In every country there are thousands of Bhagavad-gita translations, in every language, in English, in French, in German, all languages. And even scholarly Muslims, they also read very nicely Bhagavad-gita. I know one Muslim professor in India. He was a great devotee of Lord Krsna. He did not disclose that he was a devotee, but he was observing Janmashtami fasting day and he was writing one article on Krsna every Janmashtami day. There are many. They read. When I was a young man, an Englishman was a tenant in Calcutta, at my friend's house. So he was vacating the house. We went to take possession of that house, and he had many books, and there was a book, Bhagavad-gita. So that, my friend, Mr. Mullick, he was a little astonished that "He is an Englishman, he's Christian. How is it that he has got a Bhagavad-gita?" So he was touching that book, and that gentleman thought that "He is my landlord. He may like that book." So he immediately said, "Oh, Mr. Mullick, I cannot present that book to you. This is my life and soul." He said like that. So Bhagavad-gita is accepted by the scholarly section, by philosophers. So I think people should have one scripture, one God, one mantra, and one activity. One God, Krsna. One scripture, Bhagavad-gita. And one mantra, Hare Krsna. And one activity, to serve Krsna. That's all. There will be peace. There will be actually peace all over the world. So I request you to, at least to understand this philosophy to your best knowledge. And if you think that is nice, take it up. You are also willing to give something to the world. So try giving this.

 

There are different translations. Therefore I have given this edition, Bhagavad-gita As It Is. There are interpretations. In many translations they have got interpretations. Not only in other parts of the world, but in our own country also. Just like Mahatma Gandhi. He was a great man. He has also interpreted. But the point is one should only interpret where required. Now, here is a fountain pen box. Everyone knows this is a fountain pen box. But if I say, "No, this is something else" then that is my interpretation. Is that a very nice thing? Similarly, interpretation is required when things are not understood clearly. If everybody can understand this box is a fountain pen box, where is the necessity of interpretation? This is the first thing. So Bhagavad-gita is so clear. It is just like the sunlight. Sunlight does not require any other lamp. For example, I'll give you, in the first verse, "The father of Duryodhana is asking his secretary, Sanjaya, 'what happened after my sons and my younger brother's sons assembled together for fighting?' " [bg. 1.1], on the place known as Kuruksetra, which is a place of pilgrimage. "After assembling there, what did they do?" That was his question. Now, this Kuruksetra place is still existing in India.

 

Hrishikesh is also one place of pilgrimage. And there is similarly Kuruksetra near Delhi. Still that place is there. And that is a place of pilgrimage from the Vedic times. In the Vedas also it is stated, if you want to function in a religious ceremony, just go to Kuruksetra. So it is a place of pilgrimage. Now the name is there. The adjective dharma-ksetra, it is from Vedic age. Then the Pandavas and the Kauravas, they are historical persons. The history is there, Mahabharata. Then where is the question of interpreting Kuruksetra as "this body," and the Pandavas as "the senses"? Where do you get this opportunity to interpret? So these things are going on. But we object, "Why should you interpret in that way when the facts are there?" That means Bhagavad-gita is very popular book. One has got his own philosophy. He wants to prove it through Bhagavad-gita. This is going on. There are so many interpretations, at least 664. Everyone thinks that "I can interpret in my own way." Why? Why this should be? We say, "No. You cannot interpret." Then what is the authority of Bhagavad-gita? The author of Bhagavad-gita did not leave it for being interpreted by a third-class man. He is Krsna, the Supreme Lord. He said everything clearly. Why an ordinary man should interpret His word? That is our objection. Therefore we present Bhagavad-gita As It Is. The MacMillan Company wanted to shorten, because they are merchants. They wanted to minimize. Otherwise the book was very big. They wanted to make it only four hundred pages. Therefore half of the shlokas were not nicely explained. But next time we are going to publish in large and revised edition of Bhagavad-gita As It Is. We must explain everything. So the Bhagavad-gita is very, very high-class philosophy and theology. Social, political, science -- everything is there. It is very nice. And everything is clear. It is explained by Krsna. So this Krsna consciousness movement means to present Bhagavad-gita as it is. That's all. We have not manufactured anything.

[barney]

I have seen, heard and spoken to ISKON members. Sorry not my bread. I'm happy through SP the western world is looking east but it is because the Gita wzs introduced to them in a different manner not like what other archarays in India has done. SP had an inspiration to spread the word of GOD through Gita to the western world and he succeded in doing so but as I see most of its members are arrogant and egoistic.

 

They do not respect the Hindu religion as it is and they claim ISCK is not Hindpart of Hinduism [oldest practice Saiva Sinddatha Sanathana Dharma] that what it is? Taking part of Hnduism and going abroad and claiming it to be non Hinduism is silly and I do not wish to accept it as such. I have my own Gita by Swami Sithbawananthar and I'm satisfied with it and so are many others. I had a close encounter with one of its members at a festival at the MUrugan temple. He came there not to pray but to sell his pile of books. I apperciate his noble course in spreading Krishna's upasana but he has no respect for the lord of the house who is Murugan. He is lucky that we as Hindus accept all forms of GOD and believe Krishan is the 9th incarnation of VISHNU otherwise this devotee of Krishna would have been chased out of the temple ground by other Hindu youths.

 

Do not feel your SP has created a new religion and that all Hindus must forsake their present belief and only take Krishna as the supreme GOD. Krishna is only GOD incarnate and the Supreme Being is BRAHMAN who goes by many other names and forms. SHIVA, MOTHER DURGA, VISHNU, BRAHMA, GANESH, MURUGAN and many other names we have yet to hear. So, stop your nonsense of saying Gita is not Hinduism.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

"I see most of its members are arrogant and egoistic"

 

Some may be, but that doesn't change Lord Krishna's instructions does it?

 

"They do not respect the Hindu religion as it is and they claim ISCK is not Hindpart of Hinduism [oldest practice Saiva Sinddatha Sanathana Dharma] that what it is?"

 

Hinduism is a name given by Muslims to those living on the other side of the River Sindhu. The only term in the scriptures is 'Sanatana Dharma'. However, now all the philosophies based on the Vedas are grouped as Hinduism. Therefore, ISKCON for preaching purposes calls itself Hindu when preaching to Hindus - but ultimately it is beyond material designation. It is Krishna Conscious.

 

 

 

"Krishna is only GOD incarnate and the Supreme Being is BRAHMAN who goes by many other names and forms."

 

Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita 'I am the source of the Brahman'.

 

Your aspiring servant,

******

 

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

 

Re

 

(Hinduism is a name given by Muslims to those living on the other side of the River Sindhu. The only term in the scriptures is 'Sanatana Dharma'. However, now all the philosophies based on the Vedas are grouped as Hinduism.)

 

Here we go again, same old argument, what’s in a name? nothing, it is based on Vedas that is for sure. Call what you like, we would still have difference because Vedas are based on dristi of various rishis, they saw the rainbow (Brahman) in various colors, you have a preference of one color and worship that, there is nothing wrong with that but the problem is you want to deny seekers of other colors which is their choice.

 

Re

(Therefore, ISKCON for preaching purposes calls itself Hindu when preaching to Hindus - but ultimately it is beyond material designation. It is Krishna Conscious.)

 

In my book that is cheating pure and simple, Dharma can never be sustained on a lie. Whenever there is a problem of any kind they takes refuge in the so-called name “Hindu” be it a problem with authority, government or Law. Iskcon is funded largely by so called Hindus; it is all lame India and blind India that bares the burden.

We Hindus do not need preaching at, but we well come healthy debates, we do not believe in conversion.

Ultimately no institute is Bhakti; Bhakti is an individual thing only the lord knows the purity of a Bhakta. It is not an outwardly symptom one exhibits.

 

 

 

 

"Krishna is only GOD incarnate and the Supreme Being is BRAHMAN who goes by many other names and forms."

 

Re

(Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita 'I am the source of the Brahman'.)

 

He also says there is nothing beyond.

 

 

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

"Here we go again, same old argument, what’s in a name? nothing, it is based on Vedas that is for sure. Call what you like, we would still have difference because Vedas are based on dristi of various rishis, they saw the rainbow (Brahman) in various colors, you have a preference of one color and worship that, there is nothing wrong with that but the problem is you want to deny seekers of other colors which is their choice."

 

Exactly, what's in a name? So why are you so annoyed that ISKCON don't always want to be labelled as Hindu? The reason that ISKCON don't always want to be called Hindu is simply because the overwhelming majority of non-Hindus do not want to convert to Hinduism - and we are not asking people to convert to Hinduism anyway. A Christian can carry on worshipping Jesus as a pure devotee and chant Krishna's name. Same for Islam, same for other religions. We do not deny others from their choice, we simply inform them about the consequences of their choice from the Bhagavad-gita. Is there anything wrong about that?

 

"In my book that is cheating pure and simple, Dharma can never be sustained on a lie. Whenever there is a problem of any kind they takes refuge in the so-called name “Hindu” be it a problem with authority, government or Law. Iskcon is funded largely by so called Hindus; it is all lame India and blind India that bares the burden.

We Hindus do not need preaching at, but we well come healthy debates, we do not believe in conversion.

Ultimately no institute is Bhakti; Bhakti is an individual thing only the lord knows the purity of a Bhakta. It is not an outwardly symptom one exhibits."

 

Cheating? I thought you just said Hindu was just a name. What is wrong with marketing to different groups? Dharma can never be on a lie? We are not lying. We are Hindu in the sense that we follow cent per cent Bhagavad Gita. We are not Hindu in the sense that we feel it is unfair to ask people that the condition for worshipping Krishna is to convert to Hinduism. Yes we group ourselves as Hindu for one reason only - that is to aid our preaching efforts. Yes that means for help in authority. But we also help Hindu organisations in all countries, by spreading knowledge of Vedas. If you ask any Hindu youth group in the world, they will heavily rely on the Pandava Sena, an ISKCON youth group to organise most of the philosophical aspects to their conferences - also with the logistics, manpower etc. Pandava Sena in the UK provide each and every National Hindu Student Forum event with invaluable speakers and philosophy, multimedia presentation and they appreciate it. We also appreciate the help they give us in reaching out to the Hindu community for help in our concerns. Conversion? Can't u understand? it is specifically because people do not want to convert to Hinduism that we don't always like to be classed as Hindu? Lame India? Blind India? Why you saying such bad things about India? It is true no institute is Bhakti. But if any institute is going to come close to being 100% spiritual it has to be flexible with it's designations because Krishna does not care whether you are Hindu, Xian or Muslim, He cares that you love Him and serve Him. It is not outwardly symptom? Then why you asking ISKCON to class itself as purely Hindu, an outwardly designation?

 

 

"He also says there is nothing beyond"

 

Please quote verse.

 

Please forgive my offences if I am too harsh in my points.

 

Your aspiring servant,

******

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

("He also says there is nothing beyond"

 

Please quote verse. )

 

Here it is get an unbiased translation

 

 

 

Chapter 13.

TEXT 13

 

jneyam yat tat pravaksyami

yaj jnatvamrtam asnute

anadi mat-param brahma

na sat tan nasad ucyate

 

Re

(Please forgive my offences if I am too harsh in my points.)

 

None taken, i will get back to your point in due course, time to hit the sack.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

"mat-param brahma"

 

mat = to Me (noun)

param = subordinate (adjective)

 

mat-param = subordinate to me

 

brahma = Brahman

 

mat-param brahma = Brahman subordinate to Me.

 

Therefore Brahman is subordinate to (resting on) Krishna.

 

Your aspiring servant,

******

[Guest guest]

param = subordinated

 

(mat-param = subordinated to Me)

[Guest guest]

Aspiring servants rely on lies.

 

The word is 'anadimatparam' and not mat-param. Anadimatparam means 'The Supreme without a beginning'. Sanskrit words can be parsed in any way to create a meaning but falsifiers are caught easily.

 

 

'Subordinate to me' is figment of imagination of the translator. Anaadimat has been used elsewhere also and under no context subordinate ness can be arrived at , if not to support some pre concieved idea of mind (which itself is the problem).

 

4.4 niilaH pataN^go harito lohitaaxa\-

staDidgarbha R^itavaH samudraaH .

anaadimat.h tva.n vibhutvena vartase

yato jaataani bhuvanaani vishvaa .. 4..

 

4.4 . Thou art the dark-blue bee, thou art the green parrot with red eyes, thou art the thunder-cloud, the seasons, the seas. THOU ART WITHOUT BEGINNING, because thou art infinite, thou from whom all worlds are born.

 

 

 

Neither can Anaadimatparam brahma be subordinate since the verse 8.3 simply says:

 

Aksharam brahma paramam swabhaavo’dhyaatmamuchyate;

Bhootabhaavodbhavakaro visargah karmasamjnitah

 

 

3. Brahman is the Imperishable, the Supreme ----

 

 

[Guest guest]

4.4 niilaH pataN^go harito lohitaaxa\-

staDidgarbha R^itavaH samudraaH .

anaadimat.h tva.n vibhutvena vartase

yato jaataani bhuvanaani vishvaa .. 4..

 

The verse above is from Svet Upa.(4.4) and the verse below is from BG 8.3

 

Aksharam brahma paramam swabhaavo’dhyaatmamuchyate;

Bhootabhaavodbhavakaro visargah karmasamjnitah

 

 

3. Brahman is the Imperishable, the Supreme ----

 

[Guest guest]

Jneyam yattat pravakshyaami yajjnaatwaa’mritamashnute;

Anaadimatparam brahma na sattannaasaduchyate.

 

 

 

Exact Sanskrit verse from BG 13.13 is given above. There is no mat-param. There is Anadimatparam -- Param who has no beginning.

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Thanks Atanu

 

I asked for an unbiased translation from the guest and some how he manages to tell us Param= subordinate do not know how one arrives at this conclusion? In my experience I have never come across Param to mean that but than I could be wrong, here are some definitions of Param:

 

parama = highest, the utmost, most excellent paramaM = supreme paramaH = perfect paramaha.nsa = a highest spiritual/discriminatory state(from Swan) paramaa = greatest paramaaM = the supreme paramaaH = the highest goal of life paramaaNubhaaraH = (m) atomic weight paramaatma = the Supersoul paramaatman.h = The soul within the Divine sphere paramaatmaa = the supreme spirit paramaadhikaaraH = (m) prerogative paramaananda = one who leads to the greatest happiness paramesha = God parameshvara = O Supreme Lord parameshvaraM = the Supersoul parameshhvaasaH = the great archer paramparaa = by disciplic succession parayaa = of a high grade parashuH = (m) axe parashuraama = sixth incarnation of Vishnu parashvaH = day after tomorrow parastaat.h = transcendental paraspara = mutually parasparaM = mutually parasya = to others parahaste = (loc.sing.) in other person's hand parahyaH = day before yesterday paraa = beyond, higher

paraaM = transcendental

 

 

sri-bhagavan uvaca

aksaram brahma paramam

svabhavo 'dhyatmam ucyate

bhuta-bhavodbhava-karo

visargah karma-samjnitah

Arjuna said: O Krishna, what is Brahman? What is Adhyaatma? What is Karma? What is called Adhibhoota? And what is known as Adhidaiva? (8.01)

O Krishna, who is Adhiyajna, and how does He dwell in the body? How can You be remembered at the time of death by the steadfast? (8.02)

The Supreme Lord said: Brahman is the Supreme imperishable. The individual self (or Jeevaatma) is called Adhyaatma. The creative power that causes manifestation of beings is called Karma. (8.03)

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Hare Krishna,

 

Re

(Exactly, what's in a name? So why are you so annoyed that ISKCON don't always want to be labelled as Hindu?)

 

The context with which I said that was it does not matter what name and how it came about, the practice of the Dharma remain the same our ancestors died protecting and preserving that.

I have no problem if Iskcon do not want to be labeled as Hindu, that is fine but stop fooling people than.

 

Re

( The reason that ISKCON don't always want to be called Hindu is simply because the overwhelming majority of non-Hindus do not want to convert to Hinduism)

 

Fine no one is seeking conversion Hindus do not seek do that, everyone for them selves, if one is interested one asks. Hinduism is about living not seeking numbers.

 

Re

(- and we are not asking people to convert to Hinduism anyway. A Christian can carry on worshipping Jesus as a pure devotee and chant Krishna's name. Same for Islam, same for other religions. We do not deny others from their choice, we simply inform them about the consequences of their choice from the Bhagavad-gita. Is there anything wrong about that?)

 

Absulately none.

 

 

Re

(Cheating? I thought you just said Hindu was just a name. What is wrong with marketing to different groups? Dharma can never be on a lie? We are not lying. We are Hindu in the sense that we follow cent per cent Bhagavad Gita. We are not Hindu in the sense that we feel it is unfair to ask people that the condition for worshipping Krishna is to convert to Hinduism.)

 

Yes you are quite right I said what is in a name, Hindu or otherwise, those people who lived on the other side of river Sindhu as you like to put it, followed a certain Dharma it has become an identy for those followers.

Dharma for marketing! what next?

 

Re

( Yes we group ourselves as Hindu for one reason only - that is to aid our preaching efforts. Yes that means for help in authority. But we also help Hindu organisations in all countries, by spreading knowledge of Vedas. If you ask any Hindu youth group in the world, they will heavily rely on the Pandava Sena, )

 

In other words you would not get much purchase without Hindu so preaching will be on pretence.

Do not delude your self about the heavily dependency of “any Hindu youth group in the world” on Pandava Sena.

I know when and how it was created and it does do a valuable job in bringing the awareness of Dharma in today’s youth.

 

Re

(an ISKCON youth group to organise most of the philosophical aspects to their conferences - also with the logistics, manpower etc. Pandava Sena in the UK provide each and every National Hindu Student Forum event with invaluable speakers and philosophy, multimedia presentation and they appreciate it.)

 

Good keep it up, Dharma when followed, becomes an example for others to emulate, there is nothing better preaching than that.

 

Re

( We also appreciate the help they give us in reaching out to the Hindu community for help in our concerns. Conversion? Can't u understand? it is specifically because people do not want to convert to Hinduism that we don't always like to be classed as Hindu?)

 

What is there to understand what is there to convert?

 

 

Re

(Lame India? Blind India? Why you saying such bad things about India?)

 

Me never would say bad things about India. I said lame India and blind India bares the brunt. Lame because over the centuries it has been plundered off its wealth and blind because we cant see we are being taken for a ride despite all that we soldier on. We can’t become proud of our heritage because our Dharma tells us to be humble.

 

Re

(It is true no institute is Bhakti. But if any institute is going to come close to being 100% spiritual it has to be flexible with it's designations because Krishna does not care whether you are Hindu, Xian or Muslim, He cares that you love Him and serve Him. It is not outwardly symptom? Then why you asking ISKCON to class itself as purely Hindu, an outwardly designation?)

 

So be a Bhakta, Hindu is not an outwardly designation, it is Dharma just follow it.

 

I am not asking anything else.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaskar Ganesh Prasad Ji

 

The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

 

 

Ganesh Prasad Ji, I am curious to know how you selected the above verse as your signature tune. This verse makes me very calm and as if spreading a fragrance all around.

[Guest guest]

Jaya Ganesh,

 

Hare Krishna,

 

Thank you so much for your replies.

 

"The context with which I said that was it does not matter what name and how it came about, the practice of the Dharma remain the same our ancestors died protecting and preserving that."

 

Protecting dharma includes informing people of when an organisation preaches their own concocted philosophy using the Bhagavad Gita to justify it.

 

"I have no problem if Iskcon do not want to be labeled as Hindu, that is fine but stop fooling people than."

 

It is not fooling people. In what way is it fooling them?

 

Let us all follow dharma. Sanatana-dharma. Eternal dharma. The only thing eternal is that we are all eternally servants of God. Not eternally Hindu or Xian or Muslim.

 

Your aspiring servant.

[ranga]

Though I am a Vaishnava follower,I certainly respect few great souls of our age.Aurobindo and Mother are among them.

Aurobindo's great austerities cannot be underestimated.

 

His philosophy is of very high order that can come only from direct experience.

 

The advaitic touch in Aurobindo's works are indeed his speculation we can say but surely he belonged to the galaxy of great sages.

 

Its so simple to comment or come to a hasty conclusion that everything is false.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

"Though I am a Vaishnava follower,I certainly respect few great souls of our age."

 

'Great soul' is your addition, your interpretation.

 

"Aurobindo and Mother are among them."

 

That is your opinion.

 

"Aurobindo's great austerities cannot be underestimated."

 

That is your opinion.

 

"His philosophy is of very high order that can come only from direct experience."

 

That is your opinion.

 

"The advaitic touch in Aurobindo's works are indeed his speculation we can say but surely he belonged to the galaxy of great sages."

 

That is your opinion.

 

"Its so simple to comment or come to a hasty conclusion that everything is false."

 

That's why it is best to accept the words of God, not interpretations.

 

Your aspiring servant.

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Pranam Atanu ji

 

Re

( I am curious to know how you selected the above verse as your signature tune. This verse makes me very calm and as if spreading a fragrance all around.)

 

The quote is from Mandukya Upanishad, as put in to english by Shree Purohit Swami and Noble Laureate W.B. Yeats

 

Nantah-prajnam, na bahih prajnam, no'bhayatah- prajnam, na prajnanaghanam, na prajnam, na-aprajnam; adrishtam-avyavaharayam-agrahyam-alakshanam-acintyam avyapadesyam-ekatmapratyayasaram, prapancopasarnam, santam, sivam-advaitam, caturtham manyante, sa atma sa vijneyah.

 

He is not knowable by perception, turned inward or outward, nor by both combined.

He is neither that which is known, nor that which is not known, nor is he the sum of all that might be known.

He can not be seen, grasped, bargained with.

He is undefineable, unthinkable, indescribable.

The only proof of his existence is union with him.

He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

This is the fourth condition of the self- the most worthy of all. (Mandukya Upanishad)

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

And that is your opinion

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

 

(That's why it is best to accept the words of God, not interpretations.)

 

 

Is that why you cite Prabhupada, who calls God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead?