Why did God create man?

[Guest guest]

Hari OM:

 

It does matter. I could follow the wrong religion. If i'm wrong, i could burn in Hell forever. Torment."

 

If following wrong religion is a crime then what about the one who created that wrong religion and the one who created that creator? so God should burn in Hell forever and ever...

 

I know your reply would be, Satan created the wrong religion, but it does not absolve God of His responsibilities, he is still at fault for creating the Satan..

[Guest guest]

God did not create satan.he created an angel named lucifer (meaning morning star) as per the bible who rebelled against God and was banished from his presence.

 

wrong religion was not created by God for he does not have any religion to create.It was man who created religion for his own convinience and comfort so that he can keep himself away from a holy God and from his moral demands.But God still loves that man and reaches out to him through Jesus christ his eternal son.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sephiroth:

 

Where did you get the idea that a "devil-may-care" attitude is freedom?

 

As the bottoms of your own posts say, "You're just a puppet". In a way, you are right. We are all slaves to our own selfish desires.

 

God is freedom. He frees me from that. The selfish desires in people are destructive. God frees us from this destruction and lets us live wholesome lives. If you believe in God, and have faith in Him, then you are free.

 

Some of your quotes:

 

======

 

"When you say I have a care-free attitude, you are wrong."

 

Then why did you previously say: "Living life is making the journey to God, whether we reach Him or not - it matters NOT"?

 

You cannot have it both ways. If it matters "NOT", then it is a carefree attitude. It doesn't matter, so why try?

 

If this is not a contradiction, please explain it to me.

 

=====

 

"In my eyes, I have NO other masters but God."

 

All right. I agree with you. Who, then, is your god?

 

Please tell me about him.

 

=====

 

"I bow to no man - like the pope, priest, parishs [sic] etc who says come in name of God do bind me down [sic, sic, sic]."

 

Who says i do?

 

I am not a Catholic, i am a catholic. There is a difference. One has a Pope and the other believes in a universal Christian Church.

 

The Papacy does not feature in the Bible. It is a manmade invention.

 

Furthermore, doctrine is not useless.

 

Doctrine is there to teach us. So are the people in positions of leadership in the Church. They help us when we have questions. To deny that others can help you is a serious miscalculation, because we all have our own gifts. With each of these gifts we can understand different parts of Scripture and help others to do the same. It simply is that some people have a gift of leadership. This in no way makes them any better than the rest of us.

 

Everyone says that it’s best to live a good life. But how do we get there? And, furthermore, what is the "good" in a “good life”? How do you define "good"?

 

There has to be some authority to say, "this is good, and this is bad", otherwise it's "anything goes". How do you, Sephiroth, know what is "good"? Because someone told you. You listened to them as an authority, and you followed their authority to say, "this is good, this is bad".

 

Scripture provides authority. God has to speak to us somehow. God is the Ultimate Good. He knows what's good. So, in order to know what is good, we have to receive a message from God.

 

God gave us that message. We call it the Bible. At times i may struggle with it, or i might dislike what it says. But that's not the Bible's fault--that is MY fault. That is the fault of my own sinful nature: a nature everyone else has.

 

====

 

"I can knelt [sic] down and pray anywhere I like and see fits [sic] to pray to God - same way as Abraham pray [sic] to God in the middle of the burning desert."

 

So can i. Please tell me: why you think i cannot worship God anywhere within the world He made for me?

 

=====

 

"true religions don't burden Man with what going to happen after you die"

 

Sadly, wrong. Every religion has an "afterlife" scenario. Even atheism does.

 

The question "what happens when i die?" is a universal human question. Man thinks about how he will never again walk around or talk to his friends, and about how his body will lie there rotting, and he feels disturbed. That's when religion steps in and says "don't worry, you'll go to a good place when you die--if you're a good person."

 

Every religion has an afterlife. They have a "Heaven", at the very least. Even hindus. They have the "drop of water melding into the ocean"--nirvana.

 

Are you really even a hindu? I apologize for doubting if you really are.

 

=====

 

"God's religions only concentrate on what to do while you still alive."

 

Again, with the "devil-may-care." If all that matters is the time when you're alive, then why are you alive at all? You're just going to die, so you might as well have fun and be merry.

 

There has to be a reason we are here, why we are all alive. We have to live for something!

 

Furthermore, what makes you think that Christianity doesn't concentrate on our lifetimes?

 

=====

 

"THIS is why Christians are foolish and Damned. You simply don't care how you life [sic]."

 

Excuse me?

 

I should take extreme offense to that statement. You don't know what you're talking about.

 

There are thousands of people, if not millions over the course of history, who have converted to Christianity because they *cared* how they lived. Christianity imposes what possibly could be the most restrictive definition of "good" of all--"to think it is to do it." In other words, if you think it, it’s as bad as doing it.

 

There are thousands of people who converted to Christianity and changed their unwholesome lifestyles. Drug addicts, boozers, perverts--the list goes on and on.

 

I myself am one of these. I had an addiction. I tried everything! I struggled and i wallowed. Then one day i said, "you know, this is stupid. I can't do this alone."

 

So i cried out to my Lord, and He saved me.

 

Without Jesus, i would still be there.

 

You, Sephiroth, show your true colors with this statement. You do not care about what Christianity has done for people; instead, you misinterpret our doctrine and insult people with it.

 

You also know NOTHING about the Jews, if you think that they think, "good or evil is in your hands to decide". The JEWS have the Old Testament, which was essentially a RULEBOOK! When Jesus came, they were OBSESSED with RULES!!!!!

 

What rules were they obsessed with? Good and bad! Right and wrong! They saw the 613+ laws of the OT, and they all tried to follow them. They did not "make it up as they went".

 

What they did not realize was that it is IMPOSSIBLE to follow 613+ laws. That is why Jesus came. To erase our errors. Everyone has sinned. Everyone is a sinner. Once imperfect, always imperfect.

 

Only with DIVINE help can someone succeed.

 

=====

"You believe because it is better to belief, not because your Lord exist"

 

You have no way of telling whether He does or does not. That is a foundationless statement.

 

God has been proven. I could recite everything to you, but that would take too long. Go and see for yourself.

 

=====

 

"Wrong ... Judaism NEVER said anything like God is Heaven. Judaism says God is Eternal - formless, shapeless and without any Seconds. By stating that Heaven is God, you are defining God to some place/conditions and that is against Judaism."

 

Again, what do you know of the Jews?

 

The Jewish OT, if i recall, is the part of the Bible that says man is made in God's image. This does not mean BODILY/FLESHLY. This means "Spiritually". God does have a shape. But He ALSO is not a "formless" IT.

 

I DID NOT say that God IS Heaven. I said the PRESENCE of God is Heaven. God is not a place; He is Person. His PRESENCE is a place.

 

And the Jews did think that separation from God was Hell. If so, then the PRESENCE of God is Heaven. Consider Psalm 139:

 

"You hem me in—behind and before;

you have laid your hand upon me.

"Such knowledge is TOO WONDERFUL for me,

TOO LOFTY for me to attain.

"Where can I go from your Spirit?

Where can I flee from your presence?"

 

God is Heaven. To the Jew who loves God, there can be no other Heaven.

 

Consider, for Hell, Isaiah 59:

 

"But your iniquities have SEPARATED

you from your God;

your sins have HIDDEN HIS FACE from you,

so that HE WILL NOT HEAR.

"For your hands are stained with blood,

your fingers with guilt.

Your lips have spoken lies,

and your tongue mutters wicked things.

"No one calls for justice;

NO ONE pleads his case with integrity.

They rely on empty arguments and speak lies;

they conceive trouble and give birth to evil....

"rebellion and treachery against the LORD,

turning our backs on our God,

fomenting oppression and revolt,

uttering lies our hearts have conceived....

"According to what they have done,

so will he REPAY

wrath to his enemies

and retribution to his foes;

he will repay the ISLANDS their due."

 

Hell is separation. It is a punishment.

 

Interestingly enough, Isaiah 59 also ends:

 

"The Redeemer will come to Zion,

to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,"

declares the LORD."

 

Hmmm....Who is this Redeemer?

 

=====

 

"Any Love that has conditions in it IS Forced Love."

 

What conditions are these?

 

God does not love us only if we are obedient. He loves us anyway. That is why He will allow us to go our own way, away from Him, to Hell.

 

Oh, perhaps you mean “us”, “mankind.”

 

Seriously, what conditions is there on OUR love?

 

If a child loves his mother, he will not disobey her and run around the house, breaking things and trashing the place. He will sit by her and adore her.

 

If you love somebody, do you want to do a thing that hurts him? Of course not!

 

I love God. Why would i want to do anything to hurt Him? Why would i want to sin? That is all God asks: “Don’t sin.”

 

If "don't hurt me" is an unfair, forceful condition, i dread to think of what real love is like.

 

Love is not "anything goes". When a man and woman settle down together, they love each other. But if the man starts beating his wife, is that still love? No. There is indeed a condition to love: do not harm.

 

=========

 

Finally, "Christianity IS forced love because he didn't forgive Adam, Eve and their descandants [sic] for ages. He then send Jesus as sacrifice for something he could have done easily (forgive the sin)."

 

Wrong.

 

First of all, God is righteous judge. When a man who callously murdered people comes before a righteous judge, the judge just does not say, "oh, okay, you’re forgiven"... the man has to pay for what evil he has done. If God is good, how can you expect Him to tolerate evil?

 

Read the Jewish Old Testament. It essentially is the history of the Jews. God forgave them--yet they kept on sinning. They were forgiven again. They sinned again. The simple truth is that they didn’t care.

 

Simple forgiveness didn’t work. That was also not the system that God set up. And how can God expect us to follow His rules if He doesn’t follow them Himself? So He decided to lead by example.

 

How can you say that about Jesus’ sacrifice? It is a deed made even MORE potent by the fact that God could simply have snapped His fingers and said, "okay, you’re all forgiven." Jesus IS God. He did not have to come to Earth and suffer. But He did anyway. Why?

 

Because it shows His love. God is not like the old pagan gods, which sat up in the clouds and waved down, "Remember, people, we love ya! Oh, and be good little kiddies, too!"

 

God actually got down into the dirt WITH us. He said, “Here--I will show you how to live.” Then He said, “You have done things bad, but I will be punished instead of you.” Essentially He was like a man who walked before the judge and said, “put me in prison instead.”

 

He didn’t have to die for us. Yet He did so anyway!

 

THAT, my friend, is a God of LOVE. He will suffer when He does not have to, for a people who are far less than deserving. All to prove His love.

[krishnadasa]

First of all to get answers to such questions u shud try to reach a realsied soul, .well what more one can expect from the confused and biased minds...........

 

reach out for a guru and i bet u will be liberated not only from all these questions but also from many more

 

hari hari bol

 

 

[Sephiroth]

God is freedom. He frees me from that. The selfish desires in people are destructive. God frees us from this destruction and lets us live wholesome lives. If you believe in God, and have faith in Him, then you are free.

 

Wrong ... you have FALSE freedom. Your freedom is an illusion.

 

When Christians tempted to commit sin, they do it because they know that if they sin, all they have to do is knelt down to a priest in front of Jesus statue and confess his sins and voila! Instant Forgiveness. No more Sins and No need to suffer effects of Karma. This makes Christians more acceptable to commiting Sinful activities.

 

In Judaism, God forgiving Jews does exist but He also damn Jews. In the end, its up to Him - to forgive or not to forgive. In Hindusm, its Karma.

 

Both have one thing in common - notions that "What you sow IS what you will reap". And because of this, when temptation comes, we remember God and His words and stay away from temptations.

 

If this is not a contradiction, please explain it to me.

You see it as contradicting because you DON'T believe in Reincarnation and believe in One-Lifetime-Eternity with God concept. I don't believe such.

 

I believe in Reincarnation and in Jewish Traditions, Reincarnations IS acceptable. Therefore, IF a person failed in one lifetime to reach God, he is allowed to be reborn and retry again.

 

Christians on the otherhand, thinks that if you born as a Christian, live like Christian and die as a Christian, you will end up in Heaven for ALL Eternity.

 

You think that your journey will be over soon (in this lifetime), me ... I think this life is just one of many I will take OR if He sees fit, this will be my last life.

 

Either way - it matters NOT that I will live a thousand years or just one day - all that I believe is matters is that I live my life as perfect as possible for His sake.

 

All right. I agree with you. Who, then, is your god?

Please tell me about him.

 

My God has no Name, no Form, no Beginning or End, He doesn't have any Sex (male or female) nor does He have Sons or Daughter. He doesn't speaks much and only watchs in Silent. Simply speaking - He is Eternal - One who is beyond Time and Space. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

I am not a Catholic, i am a catholic. There is a difference. One has a Pope and the other believes in a universal Christian Church.

 

Church, temples, Shrines, Tokongs, Mosques ... all this means nothing. Pope or Priests etc means nothing. All this is just names which binds you down and away from God. More you believe in this jokers and jokes, the further away you will be to God.

 

Doctrine is there to teach us.

Teach you what? What does a Doctrine teachs YOU when you turn and run to a priest, parish or Muallah to interpret them since you yourself cannot or unable to? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

So can i. Please tell me: why you think i cannot worship God anywhere within the world He made for me?

 

Then you won't be bothered if Hindus worship God in their homes, do you? You shouldn't be bothered if Buddhists practise their beliefs in their own temples and homes or Jews in their places.

 

But you are bothered. You come to other people's country, riddicule them of their beliefs, even corrupt their beliefs so they will support you (as did by British in the past 200 years) and bribe them with money and power as you do now.

 

Sin or not sinful against God - whether they are in path to God or not, that is between them and God. Jews understood this and do not interfere with others' beliefs.

 

Are you really even a hindu? I apologize for doubting if you really are.

No one said I was, and no one said I wasn't. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Again, with the "devil-may-care." If all that matters is the time when you're alive, then why are you alive at all? You're just going to die, so you might as well have fun and be merry.

 

There has to be a reason we are here, why we are all alive. We have to live for something!

 

Want to know a funny thing? You make it sounds like Christians are living a proper life when they are the ones who having "fun" and be merry (before they croak).

 

I don't live for my God alone. He doesn't need me to be alive for Him. He gave me life so I could live MY life and how I live my life is what I will represent back.

 

Allow me to answer in your own Bible term. Do you know the story of two men - both give a certain amount of coins and told that He will come back to get it later? One person invest the gold coins and made more while the other kept it aside so he will return it to the Master. When the Master came and asked for it, both gave. Who was the one the Master upset with? The man who invested and gained more or one who kept those coins and return the same way he was given?

 

Then one day i said, "you know, this is stupid. I can't do this alone."

So i cried out to my Lord, and He saved me.

Without Jesus, i would still be there.

God saved you and you make mistake thinking God is Jesus. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

What they did not realize was that it is IMPOSSIBLE to follow 613+ laws. That is why Jesus came. To erase our errors. Everyone has sinned. Everyone is a sinner. Once imperfect, always imperfect.

 

Sorry ... Christians are the ones who thinks it is impossible to follow all those rules. And NO one wants to become perfect here, they wants to TRY and perfect themselves. There is a difference.

 

For example, just say you are in USA and I'm in Malaysia. It is morning here and it is evening there. I said to you "Good Morning" and you look out the window and see it is evening. So which one of us are liars here? Answer - either.

 

Jews understood this and knows that the Rules which they created out of their doctrines are for THEM alone. They don't force it to others. Christians however broke that. They see outside the window and sees its Evening and thinks anyone who says otherwise (Morning, Afternoon, Night etc) is Liars and they alone are the Truth and True Believers.

 

God is Heaven. To the Jew who loves God, there can be no other Heaven.

I'm sorry to say this but once again, you have mistakenly interpreted the OT. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

To a Jew who loves God, there is NO OTHER HEAVEN. It means, those who love God, will try and approach God alone for NO OTHER purpose except to be WITH God.

 

Unfortunately, Christians go and make misinterpretations and thinks that God is IN Heaven and they try to make it to Heaven as much as they can (same way Muslims are trying also).

 

As for Man been made in Image of God, I have already mentioned - Image here means "Spiritual" and you will be surprise just how big the "Image" is. Unfortunately, I will not speak about that since it touches the Knowledge of Kaballah and I don't believe Christians are qualified to know about it.

 

If you love somebody, do you want to do a thing that hurts him? Of course not!

 

I love God. Why would i want to do anything to hurt Him? Why would i want to sin? That is all God asks: “Don’t sin.”

 

What do you think you are doing when you break ALL the commandments of God to Jews in name of God?

 

What do you think you did when Christians invade the Mayans, Incas, India and the rest of Asia in name of God?

 

What do you think you are doing when your priests change sex and molest boys and your Vatican forgives them in name of God?

 

God's Commandment according to Christianity - Don't Sin.

Status - BROKEN to smitherens by Sins. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Result - God turned His face away from your people which is why Christianity IS DYING.

 

Read the Jewish Old Testament. It essentially is the history of the Jews. God forgave them--yet they kept on sinning. They were forgiven again. They sinned again. The simple truth is that they didn’t care.

 

WHAT IS JEWS' SINS that Christians have to chase them out of Jerusalem by using Romans, then Christians themselves and now Muslims?

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

you are so blinded by propganda you can't realise the illogic in your argument

 

Was he aware that Lucifer would rebel against him?

 

If yes then why did He created him.

 

If no then how can He ve called God.

 

So basically it is His fault of creating Lucifer that we all suffer.

 

Now then why can't He save people unconditionally from the suffering He created in first place

 

Why should He put condition to believe in His "son" so that He can save people?

 

if you were an Abhraham for quite some time, then you have no other choice but to indulge in personal assaulat since i had come too close to your beliefs. let me see your reaction

[Guest guest]

You are stuck up with only two options when there is whole lot of thing behind to explain.

 

God knew all things beginning with lucifers fall to Human fall yet he created them so that they can make their choices within the framework of free will granted to them.If he could not have given them free will, then they would have been a mere robots or puppets in is hands.

God did not want puppets to worship him but a free creature who can worship him with a concious choice.

 

God is not the author of suffering.It is the result of sin.Just like positive things releases positive energy ,negative things releases negative energy.the Judge in a court does not sit quietly and pass no judgement even if its his son gets convicted.he has to punish as per the law.

 

suppose If fire breaks out due to your or somebody else negligence at 100th floor in a room and you are stuck up and then you cry for help.suddenly you find a fire fighter coming to your rescue through a a helicopter and sends a ladder to hold so that he can pull you out.

is giving the ladder a condition?-hell! NO ITS A RESCUE MISSION ,A LIFE LINE,THE WAY TO GET SAVED.you cant stand debating there that Jumping off that floor is a better option than ladder since you dont want that condition.

 

God by sending his son send that help when you and I are helpless.he offers an escape route through his son.dont sit there debating thinking you can get off through your own.

[Sephiroth]

suppose If fire breaks out due to your or somebody else negligence at 100th floor in a room and you are stuck up and then you cry for help.suddenly you find a fire fighter coming to your rescue through a a helicopter and sends a ladder to hold so that he can pull you out.

 

is giving the ladder a condition?-hell! NO ITS A RESCUE MISSION ,A LIFE LINE,THE WAY TO GET SAVED.you cant stand debating there that Jumping off that floor is a better option than ladder since you dont want that condition.

 

Let's take this by your own story.

 

Suppose someone torch the building you are in, then calls rescuers to come and save you. Do you thank the person who saved you for calling the rescuers? Or do you curse your rescuer for torching the place?

 

To the person, if you thank him, what does he feel? Happy that you appreciate him? Or if you cursed him, will he be angry he saved you and you still neglect to thank and remember him?

 

That is the situation with your god and your Christian doctrine. Your god torches Mankind with Original Sin, sends in a rescuer (Jesus Christ) and rescues Man and then demands that you worship your god through the rescuer - the fact that your god cause the whole problem in the first place is not important. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

That is why in Judaism - THERE IS Original Sin concept but do you know what Jews do? They circimcise their penis' foreskin in ritual as stated in the Old Testatement. So, to Jews, Jesus is just worth that of a foreskin. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

"suddenly you find a fire fighter coming to your rescue through a a helicopter and sends a ladder to hold so that he can pull you out"

 

if the fire figther puts any irrational or illogical conditions, i would prefer to die than get saved.

 

Because my Bhagvan says in Gita, "remain firm in Dharma don't get distracted by sorrows of this world or next worlds that are heard of or even of those worlds that are yet to be heard of"

 

So i would remain within the framework of Dharma, even if it would mean loss of eternal salvation and/or 72 virgins....

 

 

[Guest guest]

your story does not fit to biblical account neither it fit to reality as even pointed in my earlier response.God is not the orginator of sin and suffering.its the result of doing something opposite.evil is absence of good.when you enter a room you dont swtich on darkness but light.darkness is the absence of light -evil is absence of good.human choose to do what is not good and the consequences is real.if evil is not punished then there is no point of condeming terrorism,rape,immorality and all that is not right.

 

 

[Guest guest]

You did not read the story properly neither your story fit to biblical account and neither it fit to reality as even pointed in my earlier response.God is not the orginator of sin and suffering.its the result of doing something opposite.evil is absence of good.when you enter a room you dont swtich on darkness but light.darkness is the absence of light -evil is absence of good.human choose to do what is not good and the consequences is real.if evil is not punished then there is no point of condeming terrorism,rape,immorality and all that is not right.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

"if the fire figther puts any irrational or illogical conditions, i would prefer to die than get saved."

 

Ans:Well there is no irrational of illogical condition.secondly The choice is yours to accept or reject it.

 

"Because my Bhagvan says in Gita, "remain firm in Dharma don't get distracted by sorrows of this world or next worlds that are heard of or even of those worlds that are yet to be heard of"

Ans: If that is so then what is dharma ,law of karma and why is it practised?

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

"The choice is yours to accept or reject it."

 

do you think "the choice" does your religion allows? tell honestly without sugar coating.

 

"what is dharma "

 

dharma has so many features, but the most important being "truth" , if you are true to yourself then you will understand dharma

 

 

[Guest guest]

Q:do you think "the choice" does your religion allows? tell honestly without sugar coating.

ans: Of course.what makes you think so?

 

Q:dharma has so many features, but the most important being "truth" , if you are true to yourself then you will understand dharma.

Ans:what happens if a person dosen't follow "dharma"?.is there a choice to get out of the suffering wheel of rebirths without following dharma?.

 

[Sephiroth]

God is not the orginator of sin and suffering.

 

No matter how you look at it, Christianity DO says that God is originator of sin and suffering.

 

In Common Laws, Humans who help another commit a crime IS punishable by Laws. In Morale Laws like Buddhism and Hindusm, ANYONE who sees evil actions been done by another BUT remains unmoved and not helping in ANY form, IS guilty of the evil action done by another,

 

However, in Christianity - this is not. Your God - knows about Lucifer and his betrayal - YET He choose to keep Lucifer, therefore, your God is guilty of providing a likely be criminal and guitly for not providing consultion to the criminal-to-be to change his ways. Crime no. 1.

 

When Lucifer was banished from Heaven, he still managed to get in and use the Serpeant to influence Adam and Eve. Your God punished Lucifer AND the couple.

 

Your God is guilty of not providing proper security to His children or keep an eye on Lucifier. He allowed Lucifer to enter Heaven and corrupt Adam and Eve. Crime no. 2.

 

Your God is guilty of punishing the Victims of Lucifer for crimes which solely NOT their fault. WHO put them near the Tree of Knowledge? In Common Laws - there is NO room for victims of a crime which he or she has no power over to be punished yet your God punished Adam and Eve nevertheless. Crime no. 3.

 

Finally, your God (on His free will) BANISHED Adam and Eve from Heaven to live and suffer in the World below. Did Adam and Eve abandoned God here? No, your God abandoned His children. Do parents who abandoned their children considered good parents in the society today and in yesteryears? NO ... Humans consider them to be bad parents. Your God is a bad parents and DON'T deserve to be parents to Man. Crime no. 4.

 

Finally - Conditional Love (no matter how you look at it). Your God send His son to save Man (after damning their forefathers), allowed His son to die in name of sacrifice and then DAMNED Man a second time for not accepting his sacrificied son. What sort of God is this?

 

One question - you say Jesus come to die for Man's Crime. WHO going to die for your God's Crimes as stated above?

[Guest guest]

No matter how you look at it, Christianity DO says that God is originator of sin and suffering.

WHERE DOES IT SAYS?-MERE ALLEGATION WONT DO.

 

In Common Laws, Humans who help another commit a crime IS punishable by Laws. In Morale Laws like Buddhism and Hindusm, ANYONE who sees evil actions been done by another BUT remains unmoved and not helping in ANY form, IS guilty of the evil action done by another,

However, in Christianity - this is not. Your God - knows about Lucifer and his betrayal - YET He choose to keep Lucifer, therefore, your God is guilty of providing a likely be criminal and guitly for not providing consultion to the criminal-to-be to change his ways. Crime no. 1.

YOU MISS THE POINT OF WHAT I SAID EARLIER THAT GOD GAVE FREE WILL TO HUMANS TO REJECT THE RIGHT AND WRONG.HUMAN WERE NOT CREATED MERE ROBOTS TO BE PUSHED INTO SIN OR BE OVERRULED IN THEIR WILL NOT TO COMMIT SIN.LOVE REQUIRES TO HAVE FREE WILL TO CHOOSE AND DECIDE.

WHAT OTHER OPTION OR CREATION PATTERN DO YOU THINK GOD WOULD HAVE DONE APART FROM THE ABOVE?

 

When Lucifer was banished from Heaven, he still managed to get in and use the Serpeant to influence Adam and Eve. Your God punished Lucifer AND the couple.

 

AGAIN THERE WAS CHOICE FOR ADAM AND EVE NOT TO SIN.SUPPOSE A FOREIGNER GIVES YOU TO EAT SOMETHING TO EAT AND YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED NOT TO EAT THAT KIND OF THING-WHAT WILL YOU DO? WILL YOU USE YOUR OWN BRAINS,FREE CHOICE ,DISCERNMENT AND THE WARNING GIVEN TO REJECT OR EXPECT YOUR MOM AND DAD TO COME AND THROW IT FROM YOUR HAND IN THEIR ABSENCE? OR SUPPOSE YOUR PARENT SAYS THE WORLD OUTSIDE IS NOT GOOD AND HENCE CLOSE YOU IN A ROOM ALL YOU LIFE TIME WITHOUT YOU BEEN GIVEN THE CHOICE TO GO OUT AND FIGHT AND REJECT EVIL THINGS.DOSENT THAT SOUND SUFFOCATING AS A FREE HUMAN BEING? YOU SEE GOD MADE YOU AND ME AS FREE BEING TO CHOOSE GOOD AND REJECT ALL THAT IS WRONG AND NOT THAT HE WILL CLOSE US IN A ROOM OR INTERFERE EVERYTIME WE CHOOSE SOMETHING.

 

Your God is guilty of not providing proper security to His children or keep an eye on Lucifier. He allowed Lucifer to enter Heaven and corrupt Adam and Eve. Crime no. 2.

 

GOD PROVIDED THE SECURITY BY GIVING FREE CHOICE,DISCERNMENT AND BRAINS TO REJECT EVIL.ITS LIKE A SALESMAN COMES TO OUR DOOR TO SELL HIS PRODUCT-DONT YOU AND I HAVE BRAINS TO REJECT IT.?IS THE PRODUCT FORCED INTO US?-NO WE ARE GIVEN CHOICE AND IN THE MEANS OUR DISCERNMENT IS TESTED TOO.

 

Your God is guilty of punishing the Victims of Lucifer for crimes which solely NOT their fault. WHO put them near the Tree of Knowledge? In Common Laws - there is NO room for victims of a crime which he or she has no power over to be punished yet your God punished Adam and Eve nevertheless. Crime no. 3.

 

ABOVE EXPLANATION WILL HELP THIS QUESTION TO BE UNDERSTOOD.ADAM AND EVE HAD THE POWERS TO REFUSE AND REJECT.IT WAS NOT FORCED INTO THEM.IF YOU READ THEY WERE ALSO NEAR THE TREE OF LIFE WHICH THEY DID NOT CHOOSE BUT FOOLISHLY MADE THE CHOICE TO EAT THIS FRUIT.THEY COMMITED CRIME INSPITE OF THE WARNING AND DISCERNMENT.THEY WERE WARNED OF CONSEQUENCES.BUT THEY STILL CHOOSE THE SALESMAN LUCIFER'S PRODUCT.HENCE THEY ARE GUILTY.YOUR ARGUEMENT ABOUT IGNORANCE CRUMBLES DOWN AGAINST GOD.

 

Finally, your God (on His free will) BANISHED Adam and Eve from Heaven to live and suffer in the World below. Did Adam and Eve abandoned God here? No, your God abandoned His children. Do parents who abandoned their children considered good parents in the society today and in yesteryears? NO ... Humans consider them to be bad parents. Your God is a bad parents and DON'T deserve to be parents to Man. Crime no. 4.

 

AGAIN YOUR ARGUMENT IS BASELESS AND STANDS INVALID BECAUSE THE BIBLE TELLS THAT GOD DID NOT ABANDON THEM BUT REMOVED THEM FROM THE GARDEN.WHEN A POLITICIAN GETS DEFEATED HE HAS TO LEAVE THE GOVERMENT QUARTERS HE IS LUXURING IN.CRIMINALS ARE NOT PUT IN PALACES BUT IN PLACES WERE THEY CAN LEARN ABOUT HOW TO BEHAVE AND LIVE LIFE IN ACCORDANCE WITH LAW.SECONDLY ONLY THE BIBLE SAYS THAT GOD DID NOT ABANDON HIS DEAR ONES BUT GAVE HIS ONLY SON JESUS CHRIST INSPITE OF WE BEING GUILTY SO THAT WE CAN BE SAVED THROUGH HIM.OTHER RELIGIONS TALKS OF WE MAKE OUR OWN WAY THROUGH OUR GOOD WORKS OR WE FALL UNDER THE SUFFERING WHEEL OF KARMA.ONLY THE BIBLE TELLS THAT GOD DID NOT ABANDONED US THAT WAY BUT HE SAVES EVEN TODAY THROUGH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST.GOD LOVES YOU STILL TODAY -OPEN YOUR HEART TO HIM AND INVITE HIM NOW INTO YOUR LIFE.

 

Finally - Conditional Love (no matter how you look at it). Your God send His son to save Man (after damning their forefathers), allowed His son to die in name of sacrifice and then DAMNED Man a second time for not accepting his sacrificied son. What sort of God is this?

 

FROM ALL THE ABOVE EXPLANATION GIVEN-HE IS A GOD OF LOVE.HIS LOVE HENCE IS UNCONDITIONAL-THAT IS HE DOES NOT DEMAND YOU TO WORK FOR YOUR SALVATION BUT HE WORKED FOR YOU SO THAT YOU CAN LIVE FOR HIM.

 

One question - you say Jesus come to die for Man's Crime. WHO going to die for your God's Crimes as stated above?

FROM ABOVE REASONS THIS COMMENT FALLS TO THE GROUND.GOD COMMITTED NO CRIME.

 

COMCLUSION: YOU MERELY ALLEGED OUT OF IGNORANCE OR MAYBE OUT OF KNOWLEDGE BUT GOD STILL LOVES YOU AND WANTS YOU TO BE SAVED.YOU AND I ARE NOT PUNISHED FOR NOT BELIEVEING IN JESUS BUT BECAUSE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF HUMAN SINS.INSPITE OF ALL THIS THE GOD OF THE BIBLE LOVES YOU AND WANTS TO SAVE YOU THROUGH HIS GRACE THAT IS RECEIVED FROM HIM LIKE THE PRESIDENTIAL PARDON.

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

Don't just copy evengalist ,use your brain and answer the following:

 

 

"THE GOD OF THE BIBLE LOVES YOU AND WANTS TO SAVE YOU THROUGH HIS GRACE "

 

If the above statement is true, then

 

God of Bible even though wants to save , couldn't save most of the people (can we say wish of people to suffer is more than wish of the God of Bible to Save?)

 

So my freewill to suffer is much more powerful than wish of the God of the Bible to save me?

 

Please think properly before reply, just don't blabber something

 

[Guest guest]

sure the choice belongs to us.the free will is also to choose between heaven and hell ,between God and seperation from him.

[Guest guest]

Sephiroth: you seem to have many misconceptions. That is why this is so long.

============

“When Christians tempted [sic] to commit sin, they do it because they know that if they sin, all they have to do is knelt [sic] down to a priest in front of Jesus statue and confess his sins and voila! Instant Forgiveness. No more Sins and No [sic] need to suffer effects of Karma. This makes Christians more acceptable to commiting Sinful activities.”

 

Actually, Christians have more to fear because, unlike you, we have an eternity in Hell to worry about.

 

“Jesus statue”??????

 

If a child loves his mother and knows she will forgive him for doing wrong, does that make him more likely to do wrong than, say, a child that is beaten for sinning? Of course not. Just because our parents forgive us doesn’t mean we are more likely to do wrong. What makes you think the same is true for God?

 

Christians are no more fallible than anyone else. No amount of threats, laws, warnings of karma, or suffering can make someone resist all forms of temptation. It matters not; everyone will always sin, and one tiny sin in a moment of forgetfulness is practically the same as a hundred. It leads to the same thing: imperfection and condemnation.

 

(1 Corinthians 6)

“Do you not know that the WICKED will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived... And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”

 

Just because Jesus forgave does not give us the license to sin. Paul confronts an early antiChurch movement that said this very thing. These people claimed that they could the very thing you claim: because Jesus died for sin, then they can sin as much as they want. But Paul rebukes them:

 

(Romans 6)

“What shall we say, then? SHALL WE GO ON SINNING so that grace may increase? BY NO MEANS! We died to sin; HOW CAN WE LIVE IN IT any longer?”

 

This directly contradicts what you claim. I also find it interesting how you can quote (with a straight face) the coin story, something Christ said that completely contradicts you, right after claiming this.

 

If sin is acceptable to Christ, then why has my own life been so revitalized by Jesus? I have explained this, over and over, to you. If Christians feel they have a license to sin, then why have so many lives been changed--for the better? Why do so many Christians choose to feed the poor and hungry, and do so many good works?

 

Christ did not get rid of good works. He said (John 14):

 

"If you love me, you will obey what I command.”

 

We are called to be “little Christs”, and Christ was perfect. Therefore, even though nobody can be perfect by themselves, we are called to try. We have the Holy Spirit to help us and Jesus makes up for all the trials we’ve failed.

 

If you have a problem with Christians, okay. But make it for a real reason, not just a reason that you made up and think makes sense.

=======

“In the end, its up to Him - to forgive or not to forgive”

 

He has chosen to forgive. That is why Jesus came.

======

“In Hindusm, its [sic] Karma”

 

Karma is not a method of forgiveness. It is a method of damnation.

 

Karma’s method is an impossible method because it traps people in a cycle they can never get out of. When you die, you could not stop being reincarnated if you wanted to. It is impossible for someone to have more good works than bad works in their life, since any good works done fulfill only the good works you were supposed to have done at that time anyway. Any bad works, i.e. failings, are therefore impossible to be canceled out. Therefore, any “trying again” is fruitless because it only ends up as the same old thing: more trying and failing.

 

You yourself admit this. You repeatedly have said you “wants to TRY and perfect” yourself. If it is possible to reach your deity through your own power, then why are you ONLY trying? Trying is nothing but a term for “failing with style.” Consider:

 

Someone jumps into a lake, and can’t swim. So they start struggling up to the surface.

 

Would it do very good if all that person ever did was “try”, yet did not succeed?

 

“Trying” is worthless without success.

 

When Christians try, it is with good reason, because they know that all they have to do IS try. Why? Because the battle has already been won. All that’s left to do is see it through.

======

“I believe in Reincarnation and in Jewish Traditions, Reincarnations IS acceptable.”

 

To the Jews, the OT is everything. Please point me to the passages that allow for reincarnation, despite these passages:

 

"When a cloud vanishes, it is GONE, so he who GOES DOWN to Sheol does NOT COME UP. He will NOT RETURN again to his house, nor will his place know him anymore.” (Job 7:9-10)

 

“When their spirit DEPARTS, they return to the GROUND; on that very day their plans come to NOTHING.” (Psalm 146:4)

 

“Before I go-- and I SHALL NOT RETURN-- To the land of darkness and deep shadow . . . ” (Job 10:21)

 

Of God: “He remembered that they were BUT FLESH, a PASSING BREEZE that DOES NOT RETURN.” (Psalm 78:39)

 

“But man dies and is LAID LOW; he breathes his last and is NO MORE. As water DISAPPEARS from the sea or a riverbed becomes parched and dry, so man lies down and DOES NOT RISE; TILL THE HEAVENS ARE NO MORE, men will NOT AWAKE or be ROUSED from their SLEEP.” (Job 14:10-12)

 

King David, about his son: “But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I WILL GO to him, but he will NOT RETURN to me." (2 Samuel 12:23)

 

“By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for DUST YOU ARE and to dust YOU WILL RETURN." (Genesis 3:19)

 

"For when a few years are past, I shall GO THE WAY OF NO RETURN.” (Job 16:22)

 

“I FADE away like an evening SHADOW; I am shaken off like a locust.” (Psalm 109:23)

 

“The grass WITHERS and the flowers FALL, because the breath of the LORD blows on them. Surely the people are GRASS.” (Isaiah 40:7)

=========

“My God [sic] has no Name, no Form, no Beginning or End, He [sic] doesn't have any Sex (male or female) nor does He [sic] have Sons or Daughter. He [sic] doesn't speaks [sic] much and only watchs [sic] in Silent [sic]. Simply speaking – He [sic] is Eternal - One who is beyond Time and Space. ”

 

What proof is there that this deity exists?

 

If i am right, did you not tell me: “Sorry ... if you cannot find some sort of proof of your Lord, then what you believe is just imaginations and false belief. You believe because it is better to belief [sic], not because your Lord exist.”

 

What proof is there of your deity?

 

The Jewish God says He is male--He has a form; it may be a spiritual form (which, by the way, I have known about for years), but it is a FORM nonetheless, or otherwise man could not be made “in His IMAGE”--and the Jewish God also has a Name. YHWH.

 

You deny all attempts at doctrine, so by what authority can you claim this is a deity and not your own wild imaginings? Your own experience is not enough, because i have experienced things from my own God that are just as powerful. Powerful enough to change my life.

=========

“Church, temples, Shrines, Tokongs, Mosques ... all this means nothing. Pope or Priests etc means nothing. All this is just names which binds you down and away from God. More you believe in this jokers and jokes, the further away you will be to God.”

 

By what authority can you say this? You have no doctrine to back yourself up. Do you think you are some kind of new prophet?

 

For thousands of years there have been thousands of religions, and each religion has claimed an exclusive way to God. But they have all had one thing in common: a place of worship and a doctrine.

 

To stand against them is to say that billions of people are wrong, and you, by yourself, are right. What proof do you have that you are right?

======

“Teach you what? What does a Doctrine teachs [sic] YOU when you turn and run to a priest, parish or Muallah [sic] to interpret them [sic] since you yourself cannot or unable [sic] to? ”

 

So you already know everything? Is that why you deny that others can have different perspectives or revalations about God’s Word?

 

If one person goes out on a hike and comes upon a wild animal, he is likely to be eaten. If two people accompany each other on a hike and come upon a wild animal, they have a much larger chance of fending it off. Likewise, one person struggling to understand God will fail when he goes through a spiritual crisis. But if he has a friend to go through and help him sort himself out, then he will have a better chance of making it.

 

If someone needs help, should they be left hanging? Or should they be able to go and ask someone else for questions?

 

Pastors are really only there for questions. I have corrected my own pastor several times. He does not know everything, but he is still helpful if i have a question. As is everyone else i know.

 

Apparently you also can’t tell the difference between a pastor, priest, or “muallah” (whatever the heck THAT is), which is why they are all lumped together.

======

“Jews understood this and do not interfere with others' beliefs”

 

That’s because Jews believed in a racial religion where only THEY could go to Heaven, and all other races were unrighteous (“unclean”) in God’s sight. They were isolationists so that they didn’t get other races’ “gunk” all over them:

 

(Deuteronomy 7:6)

“For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has CHOSEN YOU out of ALL THE PEOPLES on the face of the earth to be HIS PEOPLE, his TREASURED POSSESSION.”

========

“whether they are in path to God or not, that is between them and God”

 

Devil-may-care. People in Hell surely would beg to differ.

 

Also, if they are on the wrong path, then it cannot be between “them and God”, because by being on the wrong path they are separated from Him.

======

”God saved you and you make mistake thinking God is Jesus.”

 

If God were not Jesus, then why did He save me?

 

What proof do you have that it wasn’t Jesus? I have the proof that it was because He answered to that name. You weren’t there, so how would you know? It’s insulting. Then you have the gall to say:

 

“God turned His face away from your people which is why Christianity IS DYING”

 

Curiouser and curiouser. So God turned His face away from Christians, yet when i called on Him, He rescued me...so i could then be a Christian? Does this somehow sound logical to you, all because you "believe in Reincarnation"?

=======

“Sorry ... Christians are the ones who thinks it is impossible to follow all those rules.”

 

So then it IS possible to follow 613+ laws, that range from “Don’t commit adultery” to what kind of clothes one should wear?

 

Why then, if they could remember them all, does the OT continually say passages like this:

 

(Jeremiah 3:25)

“Let us lie down in our shame, and let our disgrace cover us. We have SINNED AGAINST THE LORD our God, BOTH WE AND OUR FATHERS; from our YOUTH till THIS DAY we HAVE NOT OBEYED the LORD our God.”

 

If they could remember all the Laws, doesn’t that make their sin all the worse? Because then, they would have sinned INTENTIONALLY.

 

What did i originally say? "They simply didn’t care"?

===========

“To a Jew who loves God, there is NO OTHER HEAVEN. It means, those who love God, will try and approach God alone for NO OTHER purpose except to be WITH God.”

 

This is exactly what i said to you before, and i have no idea why you are regurgitating it to me right now. I suppose its my fault for not explaining well enough.

========

“God's Commandment according to Christianity - Don't Sin.

Status - BROKEN to smitherens by Sins.

Result - God turned His face away from your people which is why Christianity IS DYING.”

 

Ah, i see. And you have proof of this “Dying”...where?

 

Even if it is true, how nice to see someone gloating over another’s misfortune.

 

And i suppose hindus, Moslems, Jews, deists, etc, and, of course, most especially YOU, the supreme mighty one, have never, even once, done something bad.

 

If i recall, is not the verse:

 

“For *****ALL****** have SINNED and FALLEN SHORT of the GLORY of GOD”?

 

Yet all the same:

 

(Deuteronomy 31:6)

“Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; HE WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU."

 

God will never abandon me. How nice that your deity apparently leaves people out, blowing the wind. Its such a forgiving, wonderful deity; it punishes you for crimes you can’t remember, and when you don’t understand it leaves you out there, hanging!

 

That’s a deity of love for you!

============

We’re allllllll just Puppets (yippee)!

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

If a scientist is seeking the truth, and he believes he will die one day without any trace of his being ever exsistant, then for what is he seeking the knowledge? Is he actually consciouss? huh?

 

And if he thinks he can become eternal by some scientific method, then what will he do? What is his gain? Will he stop searching for the truth?

 

 

[Guest ANOJ]

 

Friends I will give you some bible verses which will give the meaning why we are suffering why god wants men to worship him.This story you would have heard it as a fairy tale.But observer it keenly you will get the real answer for your questions....     Genesis 3  

English Standard Version (ESV)

The Fall  

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.

He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You[a] shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said,‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise,[b] she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool[c] of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.9 But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?”[d] 10 And he said, “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself.” 11 He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” 12 The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.” 13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman said,“The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

14 The Lord God said to the serpent,

“Because you have done this,

    cursed are you above all livestock

    and above all beasts of the field;

on your belly you shall go,

    and dust you shall eat

    all the days of your life.

15 I will put enmity between you and the woman,

    and between your offspring[e] and her offspring;

he shall bruise your head,

    and you shall bruise his heel.”

16 To the woman he said,

“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;

    in pain you shall bring forth children.

Your desire shall be for[f] your husband,

    and he shall rule over you.”

17 And to Adam he said,

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife

    and have eaten of the tree

of which I commanded you,

    ‘You shall not eat of it,’

cursed is the ground because of you;

    in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;

18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;

    and you shall eat the plants of the field.

19 By the sweat of your face

    you shall eat bread,

till you return to the ground,

    for out of it you were taken;

for you are dust,

    and to dust you shall return.”

 

Here in 15 th verse its mentioned as  "I will put enmity between you and the woman,

    and between your offspring[e] and her offspring"  here you have to  think one thing...did serpent the satan has offspring ????so what does it mean ????

 

From that day sin is in our offspring (DNA).But when God created man unlike all other creations he gave his own breath to create the human. So here it comes both the good(GOD) and the BAD (satans) inside human. And so how a human can get out of this SIN ??? By no means of our own will we can be sinless, even if we think hard and do meditation or cry we wont get out of sin from our soul.And for sure your mind will think bad and do sins .So what is the way to get out of sins ???? There comes The way The truth The life THE JESUS who  he gave himeself for our SINS..People Now read what Jesus said and follow that....

 

[Guest Anoj]

Friends,

 

First of all we should agree that we are sinners.....Even christians or muslims or hindus we are sinners...with your whole heart is anyone there who can say im not sinned ??? Can anyone say i nver felt jealous, never been selfsih, never had lust on opposite sex, never hurt anyone in the world and so on ?? People think prostution is SIN but Jesus says a man who had a bad thought about a women in her mind is sin. People think killing or hurting physically is a sin, but Jesus Says Love your neighbour as you love yourself which means we cant even hurt a people with words or look or even from mind we should think bad about them. So only one way we can get rid of SIN, holding GOD with us everytime and asking him to drive our life in his way...Thats is what even hinduism says.....HINDU people study hinduism and understand the meaning what it says