Sad and Shocking news. :(

[Sephiroth]

Source : http://news./s/afp/20060109/wl_asia_afp/healthabortionindiagirls

 

[Qoute]

PARIS (AFP) - Around 10 million female foetuses may have been aborted in India over the past two decades because of ultrasound sex screening and a traditional preference for boys, according to a study published online in The Lancet.

 

Researchers based in Canada and India looked through data from a national survey, conducted among 1.1 million households in 1998, and at information about 133,738 births that took place in 1997.

[/Qoute]

 

 

Land where blood of the Innocents and Holy men had spilled will receive destructions as result.

[Guest guest]

It's all due to the sick mentality of some rural Indians who prefer a male child over a female. They should talk more about female infanticide, that's the biggest disgrace!

 

They will get bad karma for this.

[jay74]

10 mill is a big number and there are lot of forces out there to ruin our name.

 

 

Indian girl abortion claims are challenged

By Peter Foster, in New Delhi

(Filed: 11/01/2006)

 

A claim that 10 million girl babies have been aborted in India over the last 20 years has been called into question by the country's leading doctors' organisation.

 

The figure, which was published in The Lancet, was challenged yesterday by the Indian Medical Association (IMA), which said that it was misleading and failed to take into account restrictions imposed by the courts in 2001.

 

The statistic was based on a national survey of 1.1 million households done in 1998 by researchers in India and Canada. "This [the selective abortion of girls] is not happening for the past four or five years after strict laws were put in place," said Dr Narendra Saini of the IMA, which represents about 178,000 doctors.

 

He added that the use of ultrasound scanning equipment to check for girls had waned since India's Supreme Court outlawed the practice in 2001.

 

But activists are convinced that the abortion of female foetuses remains widespread.

 

Ranjana Kumari, of India's Centre for Social Research, said that no one had ever been convicted for sex-selective abortion and that this showed how lax the system was. "There is connivance between the doctors and the parents who don't want girl children," he said. "The government has to come forward on a war footing to put an end to this practice."

 

Traditionally, boys are preferred because of the practice of dowries which, particularly among the 250 million Indians living in extreme poverty, can cause crippling debt.

 

But the study found that a "girl deficit" was more common among the families of educated rather than uneducated women, suggesting that those with access to modern medicine were using it to determine the sex of their foetus and selectively abort.

[Sephiroth]

The point is NOT how many babies are aborted, but whether such practise happened or not.

 

I don't see what's so important between getting the numbers correct when the fact remains is, this sort of practise DOES ruin Hindusm's name.

 

In nation where Femine is considered three aspect - Wealth, Land and Women and Hindusm worship Divine Mother (Shakti) and even Lord Shiva had given half of His body to Shakti, the practise of even ONE killing of babies is something one should considered has an out-rage.

 

So, I humbly suggest to Hindus - Instead of trying hard to get the facts straighten, go and try to get rid of the problem such as this.

 

Remember - Sri Krishna DAMNED Aswathan for killing ONE baby in the womb. He didn't wait for any international survey on how many babies Aswathan killed before damning him. Don't wait till God's Judgement is upon you than try to make amendments.

[Guest guest]

 

The numbers are seriously doubtful. In an ycase, this is an old story as this problem has already been resolved several years ago by the government.

 

Doctors in India are banned by law from revealing gender information obtained from Ultrasound scans.

 

Obstinate people have to travel to Singapore or some such place to get to know the baby gender ahead of time.

 

Cheers

[Sephiroth]

What I want to know is, why isn't there any jail sentences or punishment as such in India for abortion?

 

In Western Society, debats goes on whether (according to Christianity) unborn babies have souls or not, but in Hindusm, that question had already answered. Why is there a punishment (even death penalty) for those who take other people's life YET no punishments for those who take unborn babies' life?

 

Sorry, I don't see this as old story or one which already have an happy ending.

[maadhav]

The reason is poverty. A male is a bread winner and protector of the family. A family who has hard time to earn enough to eat, will get a great burden if a female is born who cannot earn decently. un-decent earning - prostitution - is not acceptable even to such poor families. All who abort feel a great sorrow and guilt.

 

A Gov, can punish abortors only if the Gov can provide jobs and earning for all families. Till then, teh law of karma takes care.

 

Additionally, all who protest abortion strongly, need to give promise to take care of the children slated for abortion while it is in the womb and after it is born. if they do not do it, then their protest really has no meaning.

None of a protestor interest is attacked or violated or robbed by an aborter, unless the protestor is the husband of a woman who wants to abort. If so, then it is a family matter, not a world issue.

 

hope this helps.

Sure abortion is sin for the aborter, but not for the protestor. a protestor is a neutral party in the law of karma of other family's abortion.

 

 

[Sephiroth]

The reason is poverty. A male is a bread winner and protector of the family.

 

Many Indians follow exactly what occurred in China in late 1800s. They wanted male children as heirs and cheap labor and willing to work on it. Result - baby girls which they discard like useless items.

 

All who abort feel a great sorrow and guilt.

 

The mothers who gave birth feeling sorrow - I believe but I don't think the fathers are bothered.

 

A Gov, can punish abortors only if the Gov can provide jobs and earning for all families. Till then, teh law of karma takes care.

 

Excuse me ... the Government can provide Condoms. Work is not something Government can provide, it is something you must look for yourself. ALL work are clean work because you work for a honest living.

 

I don't see how issue of no work don't seems to effect when male children are born but has an effect when girls are born.

 

Additionally, all who protest abortion strongly, need to give promise to take care of the children slated for abortion while it is in the womb and after it is born. if they do not do it, then their protest really has no meaning.

 

Excuse me ... what sort of nonsense is this? You get married, have sex, and end up being pregnant (when it can be avoided by use of Condoms) and others needs to take care of them for you?

 

DON'T HAVE KIDS IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD THEM.

 

None of a protestor interest is attacked or violated or robbed by an aborter, unless the protestor is the husband of a woman who wants to abort. If so, then it is a family matter, not a world issue.

 

MURDER IS the Country's issue. TAKING a LIFE IS a Country's Issue.

 

I don't see just because the child (physical body) is yours, it gives you right to kill it as you see please. If you think like that, you might as well throw Hindusm out since Hindusm revolves around good Ethics and it is evidence you have NONE.

[krishnadasa]

Hey sephi,

 

understand sould matters, body dies anyway.....

 

hari bol

[Sephiroth]

Call yourself Krishna's Servant some more.

 

Yeah, everyone dies. Is that means that I can come and see you, kill you and claim everyone dies so your death is no big deal?

 

Life and Death of a person is Matters of God. Man have no rights to decide when and where another person can die unless it is for punishment for a crime toward society.

[Guest guest]

A few points must be remembered here:

 

1) western sources cannot be believed, specially when they work in tandem with Indians who are willing to be their coolies.

 

2) Numbers are dubious

 

3) Abortion is a personal choice, not a national problem

 

4) The very idea of making abortion illegal is silly, whether the fetus is male or female. One has to draw the line between "illegal" and "unethical."

 

5) The term 'female infanticide' hints at how disgustingly low the westerners could get. Abortion is abortion, plain and simple, so why invent these terms to magnify the problem? Obviously, it shows that these western scums aren't interested in the welfare of women or children, but simply want to project Indians as demonic.

 

Yours in Dharma,

Bhimasena

[Sephiroth]

2) Numbers are dubious

 

Numbers doesn't matter and what Westerners say and do doesn't matter either. What does matter is - such thing DO happen.

 

3) Abortion is a personal choice, not a national problem

 

It is National problem when it is used by others like Christians to riddicule India. Or maybe Indians simply don't care and act as if they do. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

4) The very idea of making abortion illegal is silly, whether the fetus is male or female. One has to draw the line between "illegal" and "unethical."

 

Explain to me why is making abortion illegal is SILLY?

Also, there is NO difference between "illegal" and "unethical". Illegal means - No acceptance in Eyes of the Law. Unethical is No acceptance in Eyes of Society. Both cannot be the same.

 

In America, they are screwing up everything there the same way. They use excuse such as something is not legal therefore it is ethical and vice versa. Porn is considered legal in some states in America, Florida even tax prostitutes. When asked why this is legal, they say it is rights of Americans to choose and it is unethical if government stops them.

 

5) The term 'female infanticide' hints at how disgustingly low the westerners could get.

 

Don't get angry toward them. It is what happening in India in name of wanting baby boys. Why should you be angry at others for showing the facts (even so they may exaggerate the facts a little)?

 

Yours in Dharma,

I really doubt that. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

Numbers doesn't matter***

 

Numbers are extremely important because even a small percentage could translate into a big number. And that's misleading.

 

what Westerners say and do doesn't matter either***

 

It does, because usually they don't do such things without an agenda in the offing.

 

What does matter is - such thing DO happen.***

 

It happens in all nations but in India, not only the numbers are inflated and the situation blown out of proportion and given a religious color to demonize Indians, but even a small percentage in a billion-strong country would amount to a huge number. Big deal.

 

It is National problem when it is used by others like Christians to riddicule India****

 

Wrong. Even if Indians are angels, christians are going to ridicule them. Say Indians believe in abortion, chrstians will ridicule them for being anti-life. If Indians oppose abortion, christians will ridicule them for not being progressive enough to accept the realities of the modern world. It is a lose-lose situation for Indians, so this issue doesn't really matter as far as the christian attitude is concerned.

 

Explain to me why is making abortion illegal is SILLY?***

 

It is a personal choice and the government cannot dictate personal choices. Today it is abortion, tomorrow what if the govt. proposes a bill determining whether you can have children at all and so forth. That would be chaotic. In all honesty, to enforce a law against abortion would itself be illegal and unethical.

 

It is what happening in India in name of wanting baby boys.***

 

Abortion is abortion, why invent new terms to magnify this problem? If someone kills, he is a murderer and incidentally, the victim may be female. But it would be mischievous to call him female-killer (or invent such scary terms) and turn the whole thing upside down.

 

All this indicates that the westerners and their coolies aren't interested in the welfare of the girl child at all, but wish to do what they do best: use every issue or tragedy to demonize-and demoralize-an entire race and culture, doing which the nation will become a fit prey to invasions, not necessarily by the army but through MNC/Missionary combo. These are tactics that precede invasions and nothing altruistic. Get that straight.

 

Why should you be angry at others for showing the facts (even so they may exaggerate the facts a little)?***

 

A person's mother may be of questionable character. But do not expect the son to accept insults from strangers, just because what they say of his mom is true. It is nobody's business what India does. India's problem is India's own, others don't need to lecture India.

 

One can also point to a zillion such 'facts' about america and the western world, muslim nations etc. There are just too many skeletons in their closet, starting from genocide and extermination to jihad and crusades and slavery...and the list is long. Try lecturing them and see what happens. They will get angry but will not extend the same courtesy to others and stop poking their nose where it doesn't belong. Two people can play this game. If you don't appreciate interference, then you too must stop interfering.

 

I really doubt that.***

 

In that case, learn to doubt your doubts too.

 

 

[Sephiroth]

Fine ... talk all you want and live like Christians while pretending to be Hindus.

 

When God's wrath comes, DON'T blame others.

 

And please don't come to Malaysia. We don't need (to entertain) children-killers in Hindus society in Malaysia.

 

Thank you.

[maadhav]

I think I need to clarify some points I made.

 

Gov. and society should enect programs and laws due which people get jobs. Those who hve money do not use for anything, then there cannot be jobs. In the time of famine, the kings used to provide employment by diggign wells of some construction etc.

 

Many in Bhaaat are not paid fairly or hired fairly.

The legal system is totally ineffective for helping unpaid or less paid toe get their fair payment for a servive or product.

 

I already have said that to abort is sin.

(So, it can be declared illegal.)

But to use condom is not dharma practice either.

 

If a rich aborts, then you can collect fine from him/her.

If a poor aborts, what good it would do to punish him/her?

He/she already feels guilty about the sin.

Understand that the cause of abortion is lack of income, mostly.

 

Now, any one who protest abortion is not helping any one.

He/she is a 3rd party in the matter most of the time.

 

There was a sadhu in a village in Bharat in the known history. Forgot his name. His asram was out of teh villge near a well. One night he heard some noise at the well.

He shouted: who is there?

 

A lady crying: it is me.

 

so the sadhu goes ther and ask: what is the matter?

why you are here at midnight?

 

lady: i am pragnent and unmarried. a child will be born in 3-4 months. if it is born, teh village people willhte me and I will not be able to live with dignity. so I have come her to jump in this well and commmit suicide.

 

sadhu: who is the father of this child.

 

lady: man named (forgot the name), but he willnot admit this is his child. he has abandoned me.

 

sadhu: o lady, go home in peace, and when people ask whose child is this, you tell that it is my child. do nto worry and take well care of your self and the child.

 

lady: o maharaj, thanks. (she goes home.)

 

Then after when the village knew that teh sadhu impragnated an innocent lady, they were very angry at him. the chdl was born. sadhu began taking care of him. but teh villegers took the issue to the court.

 

In the court trial, sadhu said that he did not want the lady or the child die, so he lied and said he is the father, and does not know who the real father is. Still, the villegers did not believe him and accused him of being a crook in the guise of sadhu. so, finally he dropped off his dhoti in the court room and showed that he does not have a penis, proving that he cannot impragnet any one. the court became silent. the case was dismissed. tjhe next day the real father of the child fell at the feet of the sadhu and begged forgiveness. sadhu forgigave him.

 

So, we need protestors like this sadhu.

he was a problem solver, not a proglem giver to the gov. and soceity.

 

poors cannot help poors much.

it cost to raise a child.

so only the rich can help save a child who is expected to be aborted due to poverty or sin.

 

additionally there are some society supported asrams in bharat where parentless children above 5 years of age are raised in Vedic way.

 

Newborn and toldlers need families to raise, not institutions.

 

hope you understand this.

 

again condom use is not vedic dharma.

 

the root thing that goes wrong is: getting pragnent when there is no need to, or when a male child was wanted as a future bread-winner. a girl has almost zero chance of earning money, unless born in not poor family.

 

 

[Sephiroth]

I already have said that to abort is sin.

(So, it can be declared illegal.)

But to use condom is not dharma practice either.

 

WHY is it not Dharmic practise, may I ask?

IF such statement comes from Muslims, I understand, but it comes from someone who claims to be a Hindu.

 

He/she already feels guilty about the sin.

Understand that the cause of abortion is lack of income, mostly.

 

Poor excuse. IF a person is lacking in financial aspect, WHY marry in the first place?

 

So, we need protestors like this sadhu.

he was a problem solver, not a proglem giver to the gov. and soceity.

 

What sort of idiot are you? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

While having Sadhus like that is an added bonus, you cannot rely on holy men to help you all the time.

 

What if the father of the child didn't come forward and admit the fault? What if the father simply said the woman slept with someone and accuse him to be the father?

 

Your example doesn't solved anything. Because there is MANY cases in Middle-East, and even in Bangladesh and Pakistan where unwed girls who are pregnant are stoned to death and the fathers are unpunished.

 

it cost to raise a child.

so only the rich can help save a child who is expected to be aborted due to poverty or sin.

 

Wrong again ... why burden the rich alone?

Indian GOVERNMENT should take this burden, not the rich men of the country. Instead of asking them to take the cost directly, the Government should increase taxes and use the money to educate this children properly.

 

This children can become scientists, soldiers and etc and be useful to government and Hindusm in return, regardless of what caste they are from.

[Guest guest]

Fine ... talk all you want and live like Christians while pretending to be Hindus***

 

There is no evidence for this.

 

When God's wrath comes, DON'T blame others.***

 

God's wrath, eh? Now you're the one sounding like a christian!

 

And please don't come to Malaysia.***

 

I'll resist the temptation to visit malaysia, heaven on earth. lol.

 

We don't need (to entertain) children-killers in Hindus society in Malaysia.***

 

Surprising that a person serving an Islamic empire should say this.

 

 

 

[Sephiroth]

There is no evidence for this.

 

There's plenty of people here pretending to be Hindus, like Barney. We can add you into the fold now. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

God's wrath, eh? Now you're the one sounding like a christian!

 

Wrong, VERY wrong. You see, Christians DON'T give a damn about God or God's wrath. They think they follow true God when they are just deluding themselves.

 

Hindus have forgotten what God's Wrath is and continued to follow Christians' way of life (sinful but not afraid to continue to sin). When disasters and more disasters like what happening in America now happens in India, maybe then they will learn.

 

Surprising that a person serving an Islamic empire should say this.

 

Wrong ... there is NO Islamic empire here. Muslims here knows that they cannot push us around.

 

Take the incident where a former Hindu converted to Islam and cause great deal of suffering to his Hindu family for example. In India, it could result in violence and unneccarry riots.

 

In Malaysia, ALL Non-Muslim Association (like Hindus, Buddhist, Sikh etc) gathered together two days ago and told the government to regulate the Syariah Court so such incidents like above will not happen again.

 

If such action is done in Arab nations, this organizations could either be punished or dissolved as being against Islam.

 

So know the fact before you talk so much.

[Guest guest]

We can add you into the fold now.***

 

Only an irrational person would do that. Are you irrational?

 

Wrong, VERY wrong. You see, Christians DON'T give a damn about God or God's wrath. They think they follow true God when they are just deluding themselves.

Hindus have forgotten what God's Wrath is and continued to follow Christians' way of life (sinful but not afraid to continue to sin). When disasters and more disasters like what happening in America now happens in India, maybe then they will learn.****

 

(Yawn) Boring story. And your source is the bible, I suppose?

 

Wrong ... there is NO Islamic empire here***

 

Malaysia is a Muslim country, in case you've forgotten.

 

Muslims here knows that they cannot push us around.***

 

As I recall, Muslims give hindus a nice thrashing whenever they get the chance. But you're right, muslims don't push you around, they only bash you around.

 

In Malaysia, ALL Non-Muslim Association (like Hindus, Buddhist, Sikh etc) gathered together two days ago and told the government to regulate the Syariah Court so such incidents like above will not happen again.****

 

In other words, you guys often indulge in a dignified form of pleading, eh? That's nice, it develops your humility. Jokes aside, the fact that you have to plead to the muslims to stop such acts proves that muslims are the boss and you guys are the yes-men.

 

If such action is done in Arab nations, this organizations could either be punished or dissolved as being against Islam.***

 

In Malaysia, Hindus are thus fooled into thinking they are free while in fact they're living at the mercy of the muslims. In short, you're serving muslims but are too shy to admit it, is that it?

 

Get lost****

 

Now, now, control your anger. If you cannot debate, run away quietly. Do not indulge in such antics. Though you hail from a muslim country, you are not supposed to follow islamic ways in a hindu forum. Hope you take my advice.

[Guest guest]

The fault is in the individual parents. They are too much into the thinking of my chid..my child.

 

So they take control of the child they want. It's crazy.

 

The child is half belonging to the society. And half to the parents. They should feel guilty for the society, before taking control of the decision based on the sex of the child.

 

This is less as an issue about india or females. This is more an issue of sustaining good family values among parents & grand parents.

[maadhav]

it seems you have chosen to not get my point.

so i will not discuss more.

 

But to use condom is not dharma practice either.

 

<< WHY is it not Dharmic practise, may I ask? >>

 

where in gita krishna says "use condom"?

if nowhere, then it is adharma.

 

dharmaaviruddho kaamosmi, says krishna.

 

comdom use is dharma viruddha kama, and so adharma.

 

but you will not get it, it seems.

 

 

[Sephiroth]

where in gita krishna says "use condom"?

if nowhere, then it is adharma.

 

Where did Krishna said make hundred of Caste (out of 4) and make fools of each other to be dharmic? Yet that is what Indians are doing.

 

Where did Krishna said entertain Christians and Islam in name of peace to be dharmic? Yet that is what Indians are doing.

 

Where did Krishna said go and marry when you cannot even afford your ownselves and then kill your baby in name of poverty? Yet that is what Indians are doing.

 

Where did Krishna said don't bother with other Hindus drowning in another part of India but hurry and help Americans in another side of the world when they are in danger? Yet that is what Indians DID during Katrina tragic and during the flooding in South India.

 

Don't talk about Sri Krishna, Dharma or Adharma if you don't know or care to live according to what is written in the Gita. It's call hypocritism if you do and I have seen plenty of Indians who busy pretending to be westernerns doing that.

[krishnadasa]

The basic falw of te society nowadays is following so called "Anukula shastra" i.e the shastra doctored to advocate your activities. In other words we take only that seems to be good to us and consider it as shastra. Just like we may consider using condom as adharma , where as seggregation interms of so called castecism as dharma as its been mentioned in manu smrithis. Well the right intepretation and the right usage in right time is the key here. One cant expect to follow each and evry ordinace of shastra right now, as they are written dependenet of time and as the time changes they will be modified by the authorised spiritual masters sent by the supreme . But i imagine the basic things remain same , only some details change from one term to the other

 

Hari bol

 

[Sephiroth]

And who developed this "Anukula Shastra"? I must say that this is the first time I hear about them.